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This is a good read. 13:32 - May 16 with 4003 viewsSnipper

This is from the facebook page of the QPR Northamptonshire supporters group.


I asked Aidan Magee from Skysports his views on the Ollie sacking on another FB Page.
Below is his brilliantly crafted response:

Paul Dowling Have to say I'm disappointed.

I've read closely some of the comments on here and on other QPR pages on Facebook and it's encouraging that most of our fans - usually the ones who attend most weeks - disapprove of the decision to remove Ian Holloway.

I must confess that last summer, I feared relegation and thought we'd finish with fewer than 35 points. That's certainly where our spending should have left us.

To secure safety by March, having made some very decent signings in the last 18 months, introducing some promising young players to the team, and slightly raising last season's finishing position and points total is very good going.

To do so beating Wolves, Cardiff, Aston Villa and Sheffield United, when they were second in the table, and fighting back from 2-0 down at Fulham - the best team in the Championship since Christmas - to get a draw, is also worthy of credit.

Yet doing so on a spend of £530,000 this season is, frankly, pretty remarkable.

That barely gets you a two bedroom apartment in Chiswick. And even then, you'll be lucky to get your own parking space.

In 1996/97, we paid nearly £8million in what's now the Championship for John Spencer, Gavin Peacock, Mike Sheron, Matthew Rose, Steve Slade, Paul Murray and Steve Morrow - then another £500,000 on Vinnie Jones the following season.

For the avoidance of any doubt - this was 21 years ago; Princess Diana was still alive and Hong Kong was still sovereign British territory.

I have repeatedly asked during conversations on Facebook this season who the critics of Holloway would have signed for £530,000.

Nobody has replied with a name. Not even one.

Even Holloway winning an average of one in three of his games since returning to the club warrants a mention when so many of those matches near the end of both campaigns were earmarked for looking at squad players.

Don't get me wrong, there have been low points in the last 18 months.

The away form has been very poor, certain players have not markedly improved as we hoped and the football hasn't always been attractive to watch.

Even allowing for this, it's impossible to argue that Holloway did a bad job.

In fact, he did a very good job.

I spend my professional existence talking to players, managers, agents, ex-pros, directors, owners, club media officials, fellow journalists and many others within football. All of them will tell you how critical recruitment is in the modern game.

Without good recruitment, you can't achieve the quality of individual nor the "culture" needed within a squad - and the most common result is a handful of disaffected players who undermine the manager and invariably get him sacked.

The key determinant of effective recruitment is money. And we don't have much of that. Only three clubs in our division spent less on transfer fees than we did.

There are a few who dispute how much we've spent, and point to a dwindling number of high earners still present in the squad as part of the expenditure.

The decisions not to renew the contracts of Jamie Mackie, James Perch and Nedum Onuoha make clear the club's intention to move on many of the players earning five-figure weekly sums.

There have been some horrific mistakes made in the transfer market since 2011. We all know about them. Indeed; we're still paying for them in so many ways.

At some point, though, we have to move on from those appalling errors of judgement and look at what is being done to remedy the situation. We can't change the past, so let's live in the now.

There are some who contribute to QPR debates on social media who don't grasp how little we've spent, and just how vital that is when assessing where the club, the team and the management are at.

It's absolutely fine for fans on here to immerse themselves in all things Rangers - we have careers, families and mortgages absorbing our time and headspace and we can't always preoccupy ourselves with the affairs of our Championship rivals.

A big part of my job, however, is knowing what goes on elsewhere in football.

And if I were to offer any advice to fans who use only scorelines and soundbites to form their opinion, I'd urge them to take a closer look at other clubs in our division and match what they've done against what Holloway has done.

Leeds United is a good starting point. They've spent £25.6million since last summer. They also took two Premier League loans.
The average wage of a Premier League player is now a staggering £50,817-a-week, which means that when a Championship player signs from that level on loan, even if you're only paying a percentage of the salary, you're probably placing that player among your highest earners.

Needless to say, a win at Elland Road last week would have seen us finish higher in the table than Leeds. As it was, they got four points more than our 56. It appears £25.6m doesn't buy you much these days.

Elsewhere in Yorkshire, Sheffield Wednesday spent £13.6m - including more than £10m on one player, Jordan Rhodes. We took four points off them.

Further down the country, Birmingham splashed out £15.49m, brought in five Premier League loans and I'm told they are paying their goalkeeper David Stockdale £100,000-a-week after he joined on a free from Brighton.

We did the 'double' over them and finished 10 points better off.

Norwich spent £13.3m, with three top flight loans, to finish two places and four points above us in the league, but not before we beat them 4-1 on Easter Monday.

Similarly, Reading invested £13.1m trying to bolster a squad which reached the Play-Off final at Wembley. They didn't take any Premier League loans but did sign two pretty expensive ones from the Championship in Chris Martin and Tommy Elphick - and all to finish 12 points below us in 20th.

Continuing the theme, Nottingham Forest spent £6.6m and recruited four on loan from the top division, supplemented by the not-so-cheap free transfer of former QPR loanee Ben Watson from Watford.

Forest would be considered lower end investors in the Championship, yet they've spent 12 times what we have, and finished one place below us.

Sunderland spent twice what we did and brought in nine loans from the Prem. We all know what happened to them.

Hull were supposed to be in meltdown in respect of ownership and expenditure. It didn't prevent £17.6m leaving their account. They may have beaten us 4-0 the other week but they still finished below us.

At the top end, the sums reach truly eye-watering levels.

Middlesbrough spent £50.4m and after losing their first leg Play-Off semi-final at home to Aston Villa, who boast a former England captain and Champions League winner on £100,000-a-week, they now have their work cut out to win through to the Play-Off final.

Even those who laud Neil Warnock - a manager I respect greatly - for leading Cardiff to automatic promotion and, like me, feel he should have been given the QPR job when Jimmy-Floyd Hasselbaink got it, will be interested to hear that he spent £11.4m. A job very well done, yes - but still no fairytale.

As documented above, we gave Holloway £530,000 to improve a squad which finished 18th the previous season.

We signed one loan from the Premier League from a side promoted from the Championship - that was Brighton's Kazenga LuaLua. He hadn't played in the top division in nearly a decade since making a handful of appearances for Newcastle.

He left us after a few months - no harm done, but he was no Alexsandar Mitrovic, who by the way cost Fulham £600,000 in loan fees alone! That's more than we spent in the entire season and he'll only be there for five months.

So if our manager gets sacked for outperforming most of his counterparts with a budget of £530,000, which he spent shopping at the likes of Barnsley, Exeter and Linfield - what should happen to the managers of Leeds, Sheff Wed, Birmingham, Hull and even Barnsley, who parted with £5.7m and got relegated?

I'm guessing they should all be burned at the stake?

Or do we accept that, actually, we were employing an experienced guy with three promotions and two Play-Off final appearances under his belt, who knew his squad and its limitations, had intimate knowledge of players coming through, had an understanding of the Championship, spent his money exceptionally well and had an historic attachment to the club?

His modest spending brought Luke Freeman, Josh Scowen, Matt Smith, Paul Smyth, Alex Baptiste and Ebere Eze to Loftus Road - all very sound acquisitions for various reasons.

How many worthwhile signings can you think of from the previous five years before Holloway returned? Charlie Austin, Ryan Nelsen, Danny Simpson, Niko Kranjcar, Matt Phillips - and you could make a case for Richard Dunne and Rob Green.

We'll be lucky to use the fingers on our second hand to count them because it's not long before you really have to start scraping the barrel.

I met up with some senior QPR employees before the Leeds game last week, and one told me that while the season as a whole represented a very respectable achievement, it's unrealistic to expect to repeat it again next year without investment.

The truth is that if we actually did have anything like a generous budget, we'd be attracting managers who aren't in the last chance saloon that Steve McClaren now finds himself in - one more bad job, and his days in front line management are probably done.

I've met McClaren at Sky a few times and he's a likeable bloke. I've even spoken to him fairly recently about his time at QPR, which he thoroughly enjoyed.

I'm doubtful that he can get more out of the squad than Holloway has. It all depends on whether he illicits the kind of response he got from his players while coaching Manchester United and QPR, and managing Middlesbrough, FC Twente, and during his first spell at Derby - rather than his unsuccessful periods with England, Wolfsburg, Forest, Newcastle and second time round at Derby.

He's experienced, respected and has plenty to prove. If QPR continue not to support their managers financially and are up front about it from the start, then at least there will be few arguments over transfer policy.

Perhaps, therefore, the job will be one that appeals to the very best of McClaren's coaching ability, which may work to our advantage.

If not, and it transpires that Tony Fernandes has yet again been seduced by a big name, then it's sadly back to square one.
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This is a good read. (n/t) on 13:53 - May 16 with 2727 viewsconnell10

Very good !
[Post edited 16 May 13:53]

AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
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This is a good read. on 14:05 - May 16 with 2665 viewsessextaxiboy

Interested to read the Holloway critics response to this , what he doesnt mention is the crippling injuries concentrated in one area of the team for around a quarter of the season.

Without that we would have done even better IMO

Thumper , What did your father tell you this morning ?

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This is a good read. on 14:06 - May 16 with 2655 viewssimmo

Stockdale definitely came because of his daughters SAT's mate, absolutely nothing to do with the 100k he's trousering.... What a dickhole that guy is.

I agree generally with everything he's saying and there's a lot of key info there but it seems to make clear that money for transfers should be the barometer of achievement and Accrington have shown that to be false, so have Wycombe. In this league what have Preston spent? I think that net they were in profit by about 4.5m and they were pushing for playoffs. Huddersfield did something similar last season when they got promoted. Burnley before that... They have achieved based on a clear identity and plan, something we're still lacking.

The other problem with all of this pro-Holloway stuff coming out everywhere (which I generally agree with) is that it means whoever comes in is now on the back foot, if they don't start fast and well, they will be right up against it.

ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead

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This is a good read. on 14:13 - May 16 with 2626 viewsessextaxiboy

This is a good read. on 14:06 - May 16 by simmo

Stockdale definitely came because of his daughters SAT's mate, absolutely nothing to do with the 100k he's trousering.... What a dickhole that guy is.

I agree generally with everything he's saying and there's a lot of key info there but it seems to make clear that money for transfers should be the barometer of achievement and Accrington have shown that to be false, so have Wycombe. In this league what have Preston spent? I think that net they were in profit by about 4.5m and they were pushing for playoffs. Huddersfield did something similar last season when they got promoted. Burnley before that... They have achieved based on a clear identity and plan, something we're still lacking.

The other problem with all of this pro-Holloway stuff coming out everywhere (which I generally agree with) is that it means whoever comes in is now on the back foot, if they don't start fast and well, they will be right up against it.


I think that is going to be the case anyway , a large number of Holloways critics still believe he was treated disrespectively. May 1st the rumours started on here , May 10th he went .

Mclaren is respected as a coach , but IMO he is not an inspirational person , average of 10 months per job since England . I think LR will turn quickly if it doesnt go right .

I will be right behind him as always but I wouldnt be surprised if he holds out to see if he has a sniff a one of these Prem jobs

Thumper , What did your father tell you this morning ?

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This is a good read. on 14:19 - May 16 with 2600 viewsnix

I agree with a lot of this and have written similar things myself, albeit without the exhaustive detail. I genuinely believe that the sacking has largely come about because of the fan base: by complaining exhaustively on Twitter, on fans forums, on Facebook but also by failing to turn up to matches, even at home.

Having said all that, I’m going to do my best not to be like one of the Neil Warnock ‘if only’ wannabees. At some point we have to get behind whoever is going to lead the team going forward.

Hopefully we’ll gain more than we lose in the exchange but I will miss having a manager who lives and breathes the club, who cares as much as we do, But if we can get someone who we all get behind and for whom the fans return to LR, it may have been worthwhile.
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This is a good read. on 14:26 - May 16 with 2560 viewsBrianMcCarthy

This is a good read. on 14:19 - May 16 by nix

I agree with a lot of this and have written similar things myself, albeit without the exhaustive detail. I genuinely believe that the sacking has largely come about because of the fan base: by complaining exhaustively on Twitter, on fans forums, on Facebook but also by failing to turn up to matches, even at home.

Having said all that, I’m going to do my best not to be like one of the Neil Warnock ‘if only’ wannabees. At some point we have to get behind whoever is going to lead the team going forward.

Hopefully we’ll gain more than we lose in the exchange but I will miss having a manager who lives and breathes the club, who cares as much as we do, But if we can get someone who we all get behind and for whom the fans return to LR, it may have been worthwhile.


Good post, Nix. As ever, you're a voice for calm and for loyalty.

I was saddened to see Holloway sacked and will miss him in many ways, but you're right that there's no point looking back now at something outside our control as fans. We have to support the new manager.

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
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This is a good read. on 15:09 - May 16 with 2459 viewsBoston

We’d build a statue of Holloway, if we could afford it.

Poll: Thank God The Seaons Over.

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This is a good read. on 15:24 - May 16 with 2397 viewshopphoops

Maybe Ollie's been given paid leave till mid-September, and TF will bring a Paul Hart in to unite the fanbase; and bring back Ollie after the inevitable disaster to widespread fan acclaim and player relief.

A magnificent football club, the love of our lives, finding a way to finally have its day in the sun.
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This is a good read. on 15:46 - May 16 with 2342 viewsnix

This is a good read. on 14:26 - May 16 by BrianMcCarthy

Good post, Nix. As ever, you're a voice for calm and for loyalty.

I was saddened to see Holloway sacked and will miss him in many ways, but you're right that there's no point looking back now at something outside our control as fans. We have to support the new manager.


Thanks Brian. Appreciate it.

Having said that, I enjoy the crazy posters too, as they make me laugh as much as get on my nerves!
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This is a good read. on 15:58 - May 16 with 2293 viewskensalriser

Interesting if overly verbose piece.

But the thrust of the argument is based exclusively on transfer spend, when the pertinent number is the season's entire playing budget.

Poll: Come on then, let's have it.

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This is a good read. on 18:46 - May 16 with 2068 viewsBoston

This is a good read. on 15:58 - May 16 by kensalriser

Interesting if overly verbose piece.

But the thrust of the argument is based exclusively on transfer spend, when the pertinent number is the season's entire playing budget.


Spoilsport.

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This is a good read. on 19:54 - May 16 with 1912 viewsTacticalR

I think fans' attitude to Holloway is largely determined by whether they think the problems of the club are due to Holloway or due to the situation (Aidan Magee is obviously in the latter camp).

Air hostess clique

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This is a good read. on 19:56 - May 16 with 1901 viewsdannyblue

I'm inclined to agree with most of what Magee said. It was definitely a successful season in what we achieved considering our expenditure and fresh-blooding. Budget cut. Status maintained.

But there's a problem in addition to the the limitations of transfer fee spending as a metric (as pointed out by Simmo, Kensalriser). Magee's main point is about the success of our transfer policy. I believe that to be much more about Les, Penrice and Ramsay than Holloway. That's what they do. That's what the structure is about. Besides Baptiste, the only one that might be down to Holloway is Eze because I guess they were at Millwall at the same time, but even then I don't know if that was down to him.

Also I judge a manager on whether the team is greater than the sum of its parts. I'm not sure Holloway's team was. We could out work other teams, but we couldn't out play, out think, out pace or out power them.

For the record I wouldn't have sacked Holloway. He successfully achieved more than was expected. I'm just trying to balance Magee's argument.
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This is a good read. on 20:33 - May 16 with 1832 viewsGroveR

"I met up with some senior QPR employees before the Leeds game last week, and one told me that while the season as a whole represented a very respectable achievement, it's unrealistic to expect to repeat it again next year without investment."

More or less unrealistic than expecting that chucking your hand in and hoping for better cards next time around is going to work? This could be hearsay or frankly bollòcks but is a concern if true.
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This is a good read. on 21:36 - May 16 with 1715 viewsWestbourneR

I was a critic of Holloway. I thought the team looked inept with wing backs, all running around and zero shape or game plan in possession.

BUT he changed it to the back four, he dropped Connor, he brought through the youngsters. We started to score goals and look like a team that was on the up.

And overall he's spent next to nil and bought good players in.

So yeah it was very harsh. I feel really bad for him.

But what makes it unforgivable is replacing him with Steve McLaren. If you're gonna sack Ollie then you need to have a much much better plan than Schteve McLaren.

Quite apart from the fact his teams are powder puff he also buys really badly. I pray to god Penrice keeps runnign that department because if he doesn't we're in big trouble.

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This is a good read. on 23:21 - May 16 with 1504 viewsPunteR

This is a good read. on 19:56 - May 16 by dannyblue

I'm inclined to agree with most of what Magee said. It was definitely a successful season in what we achieved considering our expenditure and fresh-blooding. Budget cut. Status maintained.

But there's a problem in addition to the the limitations of transfer fee spending as a metric (as pointed out by Simmo, Kensalriser). Magee's main point is about the success of our transfer policy. I believe that to be much more about Les, Penrice and Ramsay than Holloway. That's what they do. That's what the structure is about. Besides Baptiste, the only one that might be down to Holloway is Eze because I guess they were at Millwall at the same time, but even then I don't know if that was down to him.

Also I judge a manager on whether the team is greater than the sum of its parts. I'm not sure Holloway's team was. We could out work other teams, but we couldn't out play, out think, out pace or out power them.

For the record I wouldn't have sacked Holloway. He successfully achieved more than was expected. I'm just trying to balance Magee's argument.


Didnt Ollie help bring in Penrice. ? And wouldn't Ollie been involved with signing Freeman and Scowen?

Stayed in, drank gin. In there like swimwear!

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This is a good read. on 23:32 - May 16 with 1484 viewsdannyblue

I'm sure I read somewhere that the club was already speaking to Penrice before Holloway, and that Penrice identified Freeman and Scowen. I could be wrong, and / or the info could be wrong.

It'll never just be one person. I expect Gareth Ainsworth would have been spoken to about Scowen, having managed him at Wycombe. I'm sure Holloway would have input on all of them, and would be especially likely to have opinions about players in Bristol.

The point is that the improved transfer policy isn't all down to Holloway.
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This is a good read. on 00:02 - May 17 with 1440 viewsPunteR

This is a good read. on 23:32 - May 16 by dannyblue

I'm sure I read somewhere that the club was already speaking to Penrice before Holloway, and that Penrice identified Freeman and Scowen. I could be wrong, and / or the info could be wrong.

It'll never just be one person. I expect Gareth Ainsworth would have been spoken to about Scowen, having managed him at Wycombe. I'm sure Holloway would have input on all of them, and would be especially likely to have opinions about players in Bristol.

The point is that the improved transfer policy isn't all down to Holloway.


Im pretty sure Ollie got Penrice on board. Whether Ferdinand tried before im not so sure.
I agree though that the transfer policy isnt all down to Holloway. I think Ferdinand deserves a lot of credit. Ever since stopping Redknapp buying more players the club have looked more sensible in their approach to signings.

Stayed in, drank gin. In there like swimwear!

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This is a good read. on 06:26 - May 17 with 1302 viewsstevec

We can argue who was responsible for incoming players all day long but one thing is indisputable, 18 months into his contract and the manager still didn't know his best eleven.
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This is a good read. on 08:54 - May 17 with 1099 viewsNorthernr

This is a good read. on 06:26 - May 17 by stevec

We can argue who was responsible for incoming players all day long but one thing is indisputable, 18 months into his contract and the manager still didn't know his best eleven.


That's because we don't have a best 11. Nobody knows it, because it doesn't exist. Freeman, Luongo, Scowen, Manning, Smyth, Samuel, Eze, Smith, Sylla and Wszolek don't fit into six positions north of the back four, and every one of them has supporters on here who think they should be in the team.

If you think a new manager, McClaren or anybody else, is going to somehow crowbar in everybody that Holloway was criticised for leaving out you're going to be disappointed.
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This is a good read. on 08:59 - May 17 with 1072 viewsisawqpratwcity

This is a good read. on 08:54 - May 17 by Northernr

That's because we don't have a best 11. Nobody knows it, because it doesn't exist. Freeman, Luongo, Scowen, Manning, Smyth, Samuel, Eze, Smith, Sylla and Wszolek don't fit into six positions north of the back four, and every one of them has supporters on here who think they should be in the team.

If you think a new manager, McClaren or anybody else, is going to somehow crowbar in everybody that Holloway was criticised for leaving out you're going to be disappointed.


You're on the job early, Clive. Expecting some breaking news?

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This is a good read. on 09:29 - May 17 with 1013 viewsBlue_Castello

This is a good read. on 08:54 - May 17 by Northernr

That's because we don't have a best 11. Nobody knows it, because it doesn't exist. Freeman, Luongo, Scowen, Manning, Smyth, Samuel, Eze, Smith, Sylla and Wszolek don't fit into six positions north of the back four, and every one of them has supporters on here who think they should be in the team.

If you think a new manager, McClaren or anybody else, is going to somehow crowbar in everybody that Holloway was criticised for leaving out you're going to be disappointed.


Agreed was just about to post something similar, we would drive to home games discussing team selection but it was becoming very difficult to name your preferred starting eleven, particularly after successfully blooding the young players to great effect.

Really like the OPs initial article which sums up most of what I've been feeling over the last few weeks, still think Ollie deserved to see out his contract and that he would have been happy with another year without renegotiating a new contract. As stated previously he managed with a terrible injury situation and just got on with his job, imagine if that had been Redcrap in his place.

Like a few others not convinced that McLaren as a manager will be an improvement, it just feels like we have pressed the gamble button when the ship has finally been righted and there are very few leaks......

Oh well it's wait for the press release and hope the new man gets the team motivated in the same way Ollie has achieved, plus a couple of new centre halves obviously otherwise big problems defensively again.
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This is a good read. on 09:56 - May 17 with 955 viewsNorthernr

This is a good read. on 09:29 - May 17 by Blue_Castello

Agreed was just about to post something similar, we would drive to home games discussing team selection but it was becoming very difficult to name your preferred starting eleven, particularly after successfully blooding the young players to great effect.

Really like the OPs initial article which sums up most of what I've been feeling over the last few weeks, still think Ollie deserved to see out his contract and that he would have been happy with another year without renegotiating a new contract. As stated previously he managed with a terrible injury situation and just got on with his job, imagine if that had been Redcrap in his place.

Like a few others not convinced that McLaren as a manager will be an improvement, it just feels like we have pressed the gamble button when the ship has finally been righted and there are very few leaks......

Oh well it's wait for the press release and hope the new man gets the team motivated in the same way Ollie has achieved, plus a couple of new centre halves obviously otherwise big problems defensively again.


Where Holloway fell down was the sheer number of changes, and the lack of logic behind them. Smyth plays well and scores v Sheff Wed, then dropped for the next match. Likewise Samuel v Birmingham. That's just stupid. But this idea that we have a best 11 that he should have been picking every single match with no changes at all is wrong. If you started a best 11 thread on here I'd wager everybody would say something slightly different - apart from we'd all go for a back four.
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This is a good read. on 10:02 - May 17 with 932 viewsstevec

This is a good read. on 08:54 - May 17 by Northernr

That's because we don't have a best 11. Nobody knows it, because it doesn't exist. Freeman, Luongo, Scowen, Manning, Smyth, Samuel, Eze, Smith, Sylla and Wszolek don't fit into six positions north of the back four, and every one of them has supporters on here who think they should be in the team.

If you think a new manager, McClaren or anybody else, is going to somehow crowbar in everybody that Holloway was criticised for leaving out you're going to be disappointed.


But it's irrelevant what you, I or any other supporter thinks are the best eleven, we just have our views.

Whereas, if I had been anointed manager of a football club and been paid something in the region of half a million quid a year, then I'd have an inkling that the owners/Director of Football etc might just be expecting me to have worked out something along the lines of a best eleven after eighteen fckin months in the job.

It's his job to find a best eleven, even injuries permitting. Truth is, compared to most clubs, our midfield and forward line got off fairly lightly this season as far as injuries were concerned. And yet that has been the part of the field where he seemed incapable of making his mind up. Eze up front, Wheeler up front, Pav at full back, Bidwell, yes Bidwell, spending half the bloody season in left midfield. This does not smack of a man in control of things circa 2002-05.

From a sentimental angle, I'd like Ollie to be remembered for all the good things he did for this club as a player and a manager, but his inability to field any settled team this time round did not bode well.
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This is a good read. on 10:04 - May 17 with 923 viewssimmo

This is a good read. on 08:59 - May 17 by isawqpratwcity

You're on the job early, Clive. Expecting some breaking news?


Has to be up early to check on who you're arguing with today

ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead

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