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Irish Referendum 10:37 - May 25 with 7441 viewsisawqpratwcity

I hope they continue their move to a liberal society.



"Limiting Irish women is a bad idea. If you have any interaction with Irish women you will know this."
[Post edited 25 May 2018 10:48]

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Irish Referendum on 11:29 - May 25 with 5021 viewsrobith

My wife has been campaigning on this for 2 years now. It's been trying and exhausting, but the finish line is in sight. She doesn't get a vote anymore but she's been back all week canvassing and getting the vote out.

It was a slightly abstract issue for me (i obviously support it, but it can feel far away as a man untouched by it) until we hosted a woman who traveled over, and it burnt me with fury how Ireland was forcing women to travel like this.

The No side, are the people who brought you the laundries, Tuam, the Christian Brothers cover up. Regardless of the outcome today (count is tomorrow) we have to fight the perfidious influence of people like the Iona Institue and their US dollars with everything we have
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Irish Referendum on 11:48 - May 25 with 4995 viewskensalriser

Perhaps we could help bring NI into the modern era next.

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Irish Referendum on 12:31 - May 25 with 4920 viewsrobith

Irish Referendum on 11:48 - May 25 by kensalriser

Perhaps we could help bring NI into the modern era next.


On this - please write to your MPs and raise your concern about Northern Ireland. If repeal should pass tomorrow how can we have Northern Ireland ignoring the rights afforded to both Irish and British citizens (they're blocking same sex marriage too). The DUP are in fact refusing form a government because after the last NI elections they lost their veto.

Your voice counts and makes a difference on keeping it on politician's agenda - Northern Ireland is basically always the first thing forgotten about
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Irish Referendum on 12:37 - May 25 with 4912 viewsDaiHo0p

The DUP are a bunch of cnts
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Irish Referendum on 13:12 - May 25 with 4860 viewsBoston

Irish Referendum on 11:29 - May 25 by robith

My wife has been campaigning on this for 2 years now. It's been trying and exhausting, but the finish line is in sight. She doesn't get a vote anymore but she's been back all week canvassing and getting the vote out.

It was a slightly abstract issue for me (i obviously support it, but it can feel far away as a man untouched by it) until we hosted a woman who traveled over, and it burnt me with fury how Ireland was forcing women to travel like this.

The No side, are the people who brought you the laundries, Tuam, the Christian Brothers cover up. Regardless of the outcome today (count is tomorrow) we have to fight the perfidious influence of people like the Iona Institue and their US dollars with everything we have


I remember your wife was successful in aborting flights from Ireland.

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Irish Referendum on 13:30 - May 25 with 4830 viewsessextaxiboy

Irish Referendum on 11:29 - May 25 by robith

My wife has been campaigning on this for 2 years now. It's been trying and exhausting, but the finish line is in sight. She doesn't get a vote anymore but she's been back all week canvassing and getting the vote out.

It was a slightly abstract issue for me (i obviously support it, but it can feel far away as a man untouched by it) until we hosted a woman who traveled over, and it burnt me with fury how Ireland was forcing women to travel like this.

The No side, are the people who brought you the laundries, Tuam, the Christian Brothers cover up. Regardless of the outcome today (count is tomorrow) we have to fight the perfidious influence of people like the Iona Institue and their US dollars with everything we have


I hope the vote goes her way tomorrow . I hadnt heard of the Iona institute so I googled them .

They are fckin nuts ...
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Irish Referendum on 13:44 - May 25 with 4800 viewsNorthernr

As soon as you start basing policies and politics, in 2018, on what you perceive and imaginary man in the sky might think/want you've got problems.
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Irish Referendum on 14:04 - May 25 with 4763 viewsTacticalR

Irish Referendum on 11:29 - May 25 by robith

My wife has been campaigning on this for 2 years now. It's been trying and exhausting, but the finish line is in sight. She doesn't get a vote anymore but she's been back all week canvassing and getting the vote out.

It was a slightly abstract issue for me (i obviously support it, but it can feel far away as a man untouched by it) until we hosted a woman who traveled over, and it burnt me with fury how Ireland was forcing women to travel like this.

The No side, are the people who brought you the laundries, Tuam, the Christian Brothers cover up. Regardless of the outcome today (count is tomorrow) we have to fight the perfidious influence of people like the Iona Institue and their US dollars with everything we have


@robith 'It was a slightly abstract issue for me (i obviously support it, but it can feel far away as a man untouched by it) until we hosted a woman who traveled over, and it burnt me with fury how Ireland was forcing women to travel like this.'

Any serious progressive movement (which unfortunately we currently lack) has to take up the cause of those denied equal rights i.e. take up universalist, humanist politics. Women can't play an equal role in society if they can't control their own fertility. Men thus have an interest in women's rights, just as white people have an interest in fighting racism. Otherwise we are stuck in the dead end of identity politics.

Air hostess clique

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Irish Referendum on 16:14 - May 25 with 4660 viewsrobith

Irish Referendum on 13:44 - May 25 by Northernr

As soon as you start basing policies and politics, in 2018, on what you perceive and imaginary man in the sky might think/want you've got problems.


You can thank Eamon DeValera for that - sold the constitution out to the Catholic Church for securing his own power. We're still picking up the pieces
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Irish Referendum on 16:47 - May 25 with 4602 viewsrobith

Irish Referendum on 13:12 - May 25 by Boston

I remember your wife was successful in aborting flights from Ireland.


....I'm lost?
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Irish Referendum on 17:09 - May 25 with 4569 viewsloftboy

Irish Referendum on 13:44 - May 25 by Northernr

As soon as you start basing policies and politics, in 2018, on what you perceive and imaginary man in the sky might think/want you've got problems.


Great point Clive, maybe someone can inform the religion of peace to understand that !!
[Post edited 25 May 2018 17:10]

favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
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Irish Referendum on 18:33 - May 25 with 4508 viewsdanehoop

Irish Referendum on 17:09 - May 25 by loftboy

Great point Clive, maybe someone can inform the religion of peace to understand that !!
[Post edited 25 May 2018 17:10]


Only a religion of peace if you agree with it’s views.

Never knowingly understood

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Irish Referendum on 19:57 - May 25 with 4459 viewsMrSheen

Minority view here obviously, but I am bit perplexed that people who are opposed to life being taken in the name of justice are prepared to see it snuffed out in the name of progress, equality, compassion, expediency, etc. You don’t have to believe in an almighty God to be disturbed by that.
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Irish Referendum on 20:19 - May 25 with 4440 viewsMonahoop

I think it will be close. This is not the first time a referendum on this subject has been foisted on the people of Ireland. This is in fact the 6th time, the last being in 1983. Resounding no's each time, however times and attitudes here in Ireland have changed since. Gone are the days of cowering to the Vatican and its draconian measures and laws. However many culchies including my neck of the woods would seem firmly in the no camp, even many youngsters. Townies and city types seem to lean towards yes. Both camps have debated and campaigned hard and at times it has not been pretty. Some aggressive campaigners and I won't say which camp, came to my door one night. I was shocked by the sheer venom they spouted because we had differing views. I had to be quite forceful [ vocally ] to get rid of them. Enough to put you off referendums I tell you.
Anyway we shall see tomorrow which way it went. For the losers I hope they take it with good grace.

There aint half been some clever bastards.

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Irish Referendum (n/t) on 20:43 - May 25 with 4399 viewsDannyPaddox

Could be a terrible double-whammy weekend for the Vatican with Ireland voting yes and Liverpool wining. Imagine being the Pope and it goes to penalties. Your poor papal heart wouldn't survive.
[Post edited 25 May 2018 20:48]
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Irish Referendum on 20:59 - May 25 with 4379 viewsessextaxiboy

Irish Referendum on 19:57 - May 25 by MrSheen

Minority view here obviously, but I am bit perplexed that people who are opposed to life being taken in the name of justice are prepared to see it snuffed out in the name of progress, equality, compassion, expediency, etc. You don’t have to believe in an almighty God to be disturbed by that.


Wow I had to think long and hard about that one . I think its the idea of the state deciding and carrying it out that is the difference .By definition that is in all of our names rather than the individual choice of a termination .its a good point
.
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Irish Referendum on 21:32 - May 25 with 4343 viewsHooparoo

Irish Referendum on 19:57 - May 25 by MrSheen

Minority view here obviously, but I am bit perplexed that people who are opposed to life being taken in the name of justice are prepared to see it snuffed out in the name of progress, equality, compassion, expediency, etc. You don’t have to believe in an almighty God to be disturbed by that.


Agree

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Irish Referendum on 21:41 - May 25 with 4334 viewsMrSheen

Irish Referendum on 20:59 - May 25 by essextaxiboy

Wow I had to think long and hard about that one . I think its the idea of the state deciding and carrying it out that is the difference .By definition that is in all of our names rather than the individual choice of a termination .its a good point
.


If I was in Ireland, I genuinely don’t know how I’d vote. Repeal would mean you wouldn’t have to say to an abused 14 year old that they would have to carry their baby. Against that, there seems to be an absolutist camp that denies any autonomy to an unborn child and to the idea that any other person would feel moved to intervene to protect them. If the Irish government’s proposal of abortion on demand to 12 weeks, then intervention only to save mother’s life only, I could maybe support that maybe, but those inconvenient restrictions are always eroded, as they have been in UK abortion law. See also euthanasia, where relief of the terminally ill has been extended to offing the depressed in some countries. If you’re comfortable with it, you’re probably doing it wrong.
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Irish Referendum on 22:25 - May 25 with 4297 viewsElHoop

Irish Referendum on 21:41 - May 25 by MrSheen

If I was in Ireland, I genuinely don’t know how I’d vote. Repeal would mean you wouldn’t have to say to an abused 14 year old that they would have to carry their baby. Against that, there seems to be an absolutist camp that denies any autonomy to an unborn child and to the idea that any other person would feel moved to intervene to protect them. If the Irish government’s proposal of abortion on demand to 12 weeks, then intervention only to save mother’s life only, I could maybe support that maybe, but those inconvenient restrictions are always eroded, as they have been in UK abortion law. See also euthanasia, where relief of the terminally ill has been extended to offing the depressed in some countries. If you’re comfortable with it, you’re probably doing it wrong.


Yeah I'm pretty much in agreement with that view.

I agree with Jack Nicholson's view, insofar as it's posssible to 'like' anything to do with this unfortunate subject. Jack wouldn't be here if his mother had had an abortion, which she could easily have done, and he is pro choice but also anti abortion as a result. I guess that it comes down to whether you are prepared to give somebody else the right to do something that you wouldn't want to be involved in yourself

If you imagine a situation where you are somehow faced by all of the unborn people that you've maybe denied an existence, then how would you explain it to them? I don't think that I could be comfortable with that, but obviously you don't ever have to face that. I think that I would be more comfortable with abortion if all parties involved in the sharp end of the debate spent as much time and effort trying to prevent the need for it in the first place, because it's not going to be a good situation to end up in, regardless of your view.
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Irish Referendum on 22:30 - May 25 with 4282 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Irish Referendum on 19:57 - May 25 by MrSheen

Minority view here obviously, but I am bit perplexed that people who are opposed to life being taken in the name of justice are prepared to see it snuffed out in the name of progress, equality, compassion, expediency, etc. You don’t have to believe in an almighty God to be disturbed by that.


Definition of life I suppose.

A clump of cells with no synapses, no memory function, and no nerve endings is no more living tissue than a toenail.

How this is true from a scientific paper rather than a QPR forum:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19089-24-week-fetuses-cannot-feel-pain/
[Post edited 25 May 2018 22:38]
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Irish Referendum on 23:04 - May 25 with 4238 viewsMrSheen

Irish Referendum on 22:30 - May 25 by BazzaInTheLoft

Definition of life I suppose.

A clump of cells with no synapses, no memory function, and no nerve endings is no more living tissue than a toenail.

How this is true from a scientific paper rather than a QPR forum:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19089-24-week-fetuses-cannot-feel-pain/
[Post edited 25 May 2018 22:38]


Even if you accept that 24 week cut-off, 226 older foetuses were aborted in the UK in 2016. That’s obviously a tiny fraction of all abortions, but a large absolute number.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac

The youngest ever surviving premature baby was born at 21 weeks. Over 1,500 older foetuses were aborted in the UK in 2016.
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Irish Referendum on 23:21 - May 25 with 4216 viewsRBlock

Irish Referendum on 22:30 - May 25 by BazzaInTheLoft

Definition of life I suppose.

A clump of cells with no synapses, no memory function, and no nerve endings is no more living tissue than a toenail.

How this is true from a scientific paper rather than a QPR forum:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19089-24-week-fetuses-cannot-feel-pain/
[Post edited 25 May 2018 22:38]


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[Post edited 25 May 2018 23:23]
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Irish Referendum on 23:27 - May 25 with 4206 viewsMrSheen

Irish Referendum on 23:21 - May 25 by RBlock

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[Post edited 25 May 2018 23:23]


Telling to me that murderers are extended the benefit of any doubt in any debate of the death penalty, but the value of foetal existence is “arguable”. I read a tweet from a supporter of the abolition of Article 8, in the name of his grandmother who’d been forced to leave Ireland by the shame of unwanted pregnancy, which seemed potentially ironic given the source of the tweet.

Redundant now that the post has been withdrawn. I’m not out to score points, I find this an excruciating topic, and not something to be celebrated as a mark of progress.
[Post edited 25 May 2018 23:34]
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Irish Referendum on 23:47 - May 25 with 4180 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

Irish Referendum on 23:04 - May 25 by MrSheen

Even if you accept that 24 week cut-off, 226 older foetuses were aborted in the UK in 2016. That’s obviously a tiny fraction of all abortions, but a large absolute number.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac

The youngest ever surviving premature baby was born at 21 weeks. Over 1,500 older foetuses were aborted in the UK in 2016.


Please don’t mistake my backing of the legality for advocation. Any abortion is a disaster.

While we’re throwing numbers around, 3000 actual full grown born and birthed adults in the U.K. froze to death last year. When are we going to have a referendum on the legality of that?
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Irish Referendum on 23:57 - May 25 with 4169 viewsSimonJames

Irish Referendum on 19:57 - May 25 by MrSheen

Minority view here obviously, but I am bit perplexed that people who are opposed to life being taken in the name of justice are prepared to see it snuffed out in the name of progress, equality, compassion, expediency, etc. You don’t have to believe in an almighty God to be disturbed by that.


Perhaps if contraception was a more widely used there would be less need for abortion.

100% of people who drink water will die.

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