| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant 11:48 - Aug 19 with 5131 views | daveB |
So yesterday I took my 9 year old son to his first away game, he predicted a 4-1 defeat and despite those low expectations it was still far worse than he could have imagined. We left after the fifth, were on the train with many other QPR fans when the seventh went in. Only other away game I’ve ever left early from was Fulham when Ramsey was manager, I’ve sat through some tripe in my time but yesterday was a new low.
Apologies to Antti for nicking his format for this but was the only way I could make my rant even slightly coherent so here are 5 points/rants/gibberish thoughts from yesterday
1 - McClaren and Stability
The whole point of McClaren coming in was supposed to be that Holloway was too erratic which wasn’t good for the kids and would bring stability.
So far this season 3 games in we’ve seen Bright Samuel start one game and hooked at half time, off the bench in the next game and played during 45 minutes as left winger, right winger, left winger again and a right back. Ryan Manning has played as a left winger, centre midfielder then loaned out for the season.
Paul Smyth 45 minutes then not seen again. Eze the jewel in the crown started the Preston game as a number 10, was left wing against Sheff Utd and started right wing yesterday. In each game he’s also moved into several other positions.
Can anyone tell me how this is better than what Holloway was sacked for? I don’t see how any of this is helping their development which is what he was hired for and for all the talk of a young team etc only 2 kids played yesterday and at a stretch 3 if you include Ingram, the rest of the team was a very experienced one in terms of first team appearances so all this young team need more experience line is complete bullshit
2 - Playing out from the Back
Now i don’t want to go all Sam Allardyce here and think there is a balance between going route one and being Barcelona but bloody hell what are we thinking with this.
Ingram quite clearly can’t kick the ball so if he is our number one don’t base our game around him and his feet. The poor sod has been hung out to dry this season, he looked bereft of any confidence yesterday, a player ruined within 3 matches. Good Work Steve
We simply don’t have the players to play this way, was exactly the same when Gary Waddock tried this after Holloway left the first time and we had Zesh rehmann playing out from the back. It works if you have players good on the ball, we don’t.
Yesterday in the first half we were caught in our own half losing the ball on 5 occasions. They scored from one of them and should have scored from the other 4 so to go in at half time 1-1 should have been a warning to us and a chance to improve. Yet McClaren states after the game we were really good first half (we weren’t) and he has no idea what went wrong. Well second half we conceded 4 more goals losing the ball in our own half and have no idea what to do when we lost it. It’s not bloody rocket science this. In the first half yesterday West brom played out and got caught by Eze and we almost scored, the next 4 or 5 goal kicks they went long and played in our half. We don’t seem to learn at all and just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again.
We don’t have to become a long ball team but some sort of plan of what to do when we lose the ball might be useful, we are dreadful both in and out of possession.
3 - Width
Much was made about the 3-5-2 last season and the need for more width which the change of system should bring us, well it might help us if we play a winger in the current set up. So far this season the wide positions have been filled by Freeman, Bright Samuel, Eze, Smyth, Cousins, Wszolek and Washington. Three of those are actual wingers and none of hem have played a full league game. Thats meant a complete lack of protection for the full backs and normally a congested midfield with very few optins to spread the play other than to the full backs.
That needs to change and quickly.
4 - Ingram
I feel for him, he’s waited a long time for his chance but when given it has been asked to change his game dramatically. He’s not a keeper who can play out from the back, he’s a basic functional championship goalkepeer, decent shot stopper, OK on crosses terrible with his feet so why on earth have we built the team around him playing from the back. It’s been an absolute disaster and genuinely destroyed a promising keeper. Well done all involved in achieving this.
5 - Attitude
Finally the attitude of the players when going 3-1 down yesterday was nothing short of a disgrace. In particular Cousins just gave up and was stood watching several of the goals from the edge of the box. Leinster was diabolical all game, wrong side of Gayle all match and his throwing in of the towel was disgusting from someone who had impressed in the first few games. Lynch deciding to throw himself on the floor and just walk off at 4-1 down, not the first time he’s done that either. Freeman probably the only one who looked like he cared. That is another thing that badly needs to improve.
On the plus side our set pieces were good.
I could go on, genuinely so much wrong on the pitch I could be here all day.
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| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 12:12 - Aug 19 with 4027 views | ted_hendrix |
Rant all you want your entitled to, what is alarming though is reading about players throwing the towel in away from home, as a fan that's the last thing you want to see after spending your hard earnt cash following the club.
By stating the bloody obvious we have some serious issues on the pitch and in the club, reading your post I'd suggest its worse than what I originally thought.
You used to go to away games and have a bit of a laugh in the old days with other Rangers fans, we were shit then but it didn't seem to matter so much you just took it on the chin.
Strewth the club is in a bad way at the moment, all we can do is hope things get better we cant give up.
The last time I was at the Hawthorns we lost 1-0 after playing reasonably well, how times have changed, the time before that we lost 3-2 or 4-2 also after playing reasonably well, yea how times have changed. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:59 - Aug 19 with 3896 views | LongsufferingR |
100% agreed. Particularly 1 and 2. [Post edited 19 Aug 2018 13:00]
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| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 13:40 - Aug 19 with 3767 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
I wasn't there so can't comment much. However fans always seem to overreact to one bad result. I was at the Sheff Utd match and it was close. I came away thinking we didn't play that well but didn't deserve to lose. For me Kakay was the only obvious major weakness. Going forward he was promising but any ball played in the air towards him was a problem and he was targeted all game.
What comes across in the highlights is that WBA are still a PL team in terms of pace and power. Their finishing on the day was also high class. They ruthlessly exploited our defensive weaknesses. I don't expect anything like that against Bristol City. I'd put in Rangel, if fit, and Lumley. What the team needs is some luck and confidence. Of course it is now an important game where we need to avoid defeat. |  | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 14:19 - Aug 19 with 3639 views | LongsufferingR |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 13:40 - Aug 19 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
I wasn't there so can't comment much. However fans always seem to overreact to one bad result. I was at the Sheff Utd match and it was close. I came away thinking we didn't play that well but didn't deserve to lose. For me Kakay was the only obvious major weakness. Going forward he was promising but any ball played in the air towards him was a problem and he was targeted all game.
What comes across in the highlights is that WBA are still a PL team in terms of pace and power. Their finishing on the day was also high class. They ruthlessly exploited our defensive weaknesses. I don't expect anything like that against Bristol City. I'd put in Rangel, if fit, and Lumley. What the team needs is some luck and confidence. Of course it is now an important game where we need to avoid defeat. |
Not really an overreaction to one bad result. This has been coming since we kicked off at Preston. Trying to play out from the back when you don't have any of the Man City squad playing for you is inviting trouble. We got lucky a few times against Preston and Sheff U but WBA had players more capable of taking advantage of it.
We need to play to our strengths and pssing around at the back ain't one of them. | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 18:10 - Aug 19 with 3339 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
Well it's certainly an overreaction if stopping playing out from the back is going to solve one of our main problems.
I recall the 6-0 hammering at home by Newcastle. We were completely outclassed. It had practically no effect on the next few matches. Every game is different. | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 18:19 - Aug 19 with 3314 views | Northernr |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 18:10 - Aug 19 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
Well it's certainly an overreaction if stopping playing out from the back is going to solve one of our main problems.
I recall the 6-0 hammering at home by Newcastle. We were completely outclassed. It had practically no effect on the next few matches. Every game is different. |
Prior to Newcastle we’d lost 2 of the first 8, including winning the first two games of the season. After it we won none of the next 4 (D2 L2), won 2 of the next 10 and sacked the manager.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 18:30 - Aug 19 with 3267 views | 1JD |
Dave, a good report all round. I particularly agree with your analysis of our use of wide players who by and large, are not wide players. We are so badly lacking pace in the side.
Couple of comments;
Ingram has never been able to kick even at Wycombe - surely this is a basic keeping requirement. He is also clearly unable to learn (been here 2 years and nothing has changed in that regard), so simply isnt good enough and up to the job. Sentiment does not come into it.
If you think Freeman caring is allowing his man to run off him for a free run, cross and goal then I’m perplexed. How can you call out Lynch and Leistner for “throwing the towel in” and not Freeman? They all did it, some more than others, but it was an all round disgraceful performance- no exceptions. | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 18:38 - Aug 19 with 3225 views | distortR |
my son was talking to an u23 player after the sheff utd game, he was under the impression that some of the players lacked heart and didn't give enough
edit - in that match [Post edited 19 Aug 2018 18:59]
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| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 19:14 - Aug 19 with 3110 views | daveB |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 18:30 - Aug 19 by 1JD |
Dave, a good report all round. I particularly agree with your analysis of our use of wide players who by and large, are not wide players. We are so badly lacking pace in the side.
Couple of comments;
Ingram has never been able to kick even at Wycombe - surely this is a basic keeping requirement. He is also clearly unable to learn (been here 2 years and nothing has changed in that regard), so simply isnt good enough and up to the job. Sentiment does not come into it.
If you think Freeman caring is allowing his man to run off him for a free run, cross and goal then I’m perplexed. How can you call out Lynch and Leistner for “throwing the towel in” and not Freeman? They all did it, some more than others, but it was an all round disgraceful performance- no exceptions. |
I'd gone before the last goal so didn't see Freeman letting his man run off him, i wouldn't praise any of them for yesterday I just picked out the ones who stood out as ultra shit rather than just shit | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 19:37 - Aug 19 with 3042 views | Watford_Ranger |
I don’t have an issue with Freeman. He’s shown excellent work rate before. He’s very obviously not a wide player nor is Eze nor is Cousins yet they all played wide at times while we had two wingers on the bench and others not in the squad.
The tactics were an absolute shambles and gave us no chance. One giant but slow striker against their giant bit slow defence? No wingers at all? Cousins on the pitch? Playing out from the back with that defence and goalkeeper? Such utterly basic errors. | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 20:09 - Aug 19 with 2979 views | connell10 |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 13:40 - Aug 19 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
I wasn't there so can't comment much. However fans always seem to overreact to one bad result. I was at the Sheff Utd match and it was close. I came away thinking we didn't play that well but didn't deserve to lose. For me Kakay was the only obvious major weakness. Going forward he was promising but any ball played in the air towards him was a problem and he was targeted all game.
What comes across in the highlights is that WBA are still a PL team in terms of pace and power. Their finishing on the day was also high class. They ruthlessly exploited our defensive weaknesses. I don't expect anything like that against Bristol City. I'd put in Rangel, if fit, and Lumley. What the team needs is some luck and confidence. Of course it is now an important game where we need to avoid defeat. |
overreaction we got thrashed 7 f ucking 1 if the players showed a bit of passion like our fans we might be alright! |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 20:38 - Aug 19 with 2919 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 18:19 - Aug 19 by Northernr |
Prior to Newcastle we’d lost 2 of the first 8, including winning the first two games of the season. After it we won none of the next 4 (D2 L2), won 2 of the next 10 and sacked the manager.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Well the point was whether there was a dramatic negative effect to results caused by being thrashed 6-0 at home. And there definitely wasn't.
In the six Championship matches before the 6-0 we won 3, drew 1 and lost two.
In the six Championship matches after the 6-0 we won 2, drew 3 and lost one. Very little difference.
The manager being sacked was all about expectations and playing style.
He wasn't meeting the boards expectations, progress was nil, and the football was defensive and boring. Expectations were on a different level then.
Obviously we are in a worrying position which could look a whole lot worse on Tuesday night but the reaction on this forum so far is totally OTT. | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 20:42 - Aug 19 with 2901 views | connell10 |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 20:38 - Aug 19 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
Well the point was whether there was a dramatic negative effect to results caused by being thrashed 6-0 at home. And there definitely wasn't.
In the six Championship matches before the 6-0 we won 3, drew 1 and lost two.
In the six Championship matches after the 6-0 we won 2, drew 3 and lost one. Very little difference.
The manager being sacked was all about expectations and playing style.
He wasn't meeting the boards expectations, progress was nil, and the football was defensive and boring. Expectations were on a different level then.
Obviously we are in a worrying position which could look a whole lot worse on Tuesday night but the reaction on this forum so far is totally OTT. |
Mate we just got thrashed 7-1, thats seven goals to W.B.A and one goal to us. If you are perfectly calm about that then whoopi f ucking do , im not and alot of our fan base arent , so if you think thats OTT then tough titty! | |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 20:50 - Aug 19 with 2877 views | daveB |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 20:38 - Aug 19 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
Well the point was whether there was a dramatic negative effect to results caused by being thrashed 6-0 at home. And there definitely wasn't.
In the six Championship matches before the 6-0 we won 3, drew 1 and lost two.
In the six Championship matches after the 6-0 we won 2, drew 3 and lost one. Very little difference.
The manager being sacked was all about expectations and playing style.
He wasn't meeting the boards expectations, progress was nil, and the football was defensive and boring. Expectations were on a different level then.
Obviously we are in a worrying position which could look a whole lot worse on Tuesday night but the reaction on this forum so far is totally OTT. |
not sure it is over the top after losing 7-1, the reaction on here was far worse and angry after we lost to Forest at home last year which was a dire performance but team was comfortable in mid table at that point. | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 22:03 - Aug 19 with 2771 views | Rs_Holy |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 20:38 - Aug 19 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
Well the point was whether there was a dramatic negative effect to results caused by being thrashed 6-0 at home. And there definitely wasn't.
In the six Championship matches before the 6-0 we won 3, drew 1 and lost two.
In the six Championship matches after the 6-0 we won 2, drew 3 and lost one. Very little difference.
The manager being sacked was all about expectations and playing style.
He wasn't meeting the boards expectations, progress was nil, and the football was defensive and boring. Expectations were on a different level then.
Obviously we are in a worrying position which could look a whole lot worse on Tuesday night but the reaction on this forum so far is totally OTT. |
Christ have we sunk so low that losing 7-1 does not warrant a reaction.... I think Finney calls it "defeat fatigue"... Some on here are a bit numb or punch drunk maybe? |  | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 22:28 - Aug 19 with 2701 views | Hooped_Pullie |
Great original post - recalling that West Brom were beaten at home by Bolton in their last game at The Hawthorns, and that Bolton have been mentioned on other posts, I had a look at their recent history in a bit more depth. Apologies to those of you who are familiar with the facts, but debts of £200 million, winding-up orders and (at times) the player's wages in danger of not being paid - it's been a rapid fall from grace which starkly illustrates we're far from the only basket case club in the Championship. What struck me though was how the manager had everyone pulling together, and how they handled the sale of Madine to Cardiff. They're not out of the woods by any means, but they are certainly handling their turmoil a very great deal better than we're handling ours. | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 22:51 - Aug 19 with 2648 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 22:03 - Aug 19 by Rs_Holy |
Christ have we sunk so low that losing 7-1 does not warrant a reaction.... I think Finney calls it "defeat fatigue"... Some on here are a bit numb or punch drunk maybe? |
My reaction has been to buy tickets for Tuesday. I hadn't intended going but the team needs all the support it can get.
I can remember Norwich beat Reading 7-1 in April 2017. It made no difference. Reading got to the play-off final anyway and finished well above Norwich. The very next Saturday they won 3-1 at Villa. That's football, it's an unpredictable roller-coaster. Why overreact to one result? In the words of 'Bridge of Spies' Rudolf Abel "Would it help".
7-1 is not good. It is worrying, but it is only a crisis if the fans and club turn it into one. | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 05:04 - Aug 20 with 2482 views | isawqpratwcity |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 22:51 - Aug 19 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
My reaction has been to buy tickets for Tuesday. I hadn't intended going but the team needs all the support it can get.
I can remember Norwich beat Reading 7-1 in April 2017. It made no difference. Reading got to the play-off final anyway and finished well above Norwich. The very next Saturday they won 3-1 at Villa. That's football, it's an unpredictable roller-coaster. Why overreact to one result? In the words of 'Bridge of Spies' Rudolf Abel "Would it help".
7-1 is not good. It is worrying, but it is only a crisis if the fans and club turn it into one. |
It definitely is OTT to fill the board with calls for the manager's and board's heads after just three league games, even if one was a 7-1 loss away. And it's not much, but the cup win is still some mitigation.
Some people mistake rabid over-reaction for 'passion'. We're still only talking about three games. |  |
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| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 08:18 - Aug 20 with 2355 views | daveB |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 05:04 - Aug 20 by isawqpratwcity |
It definitely is OTT to fill the board with calls for the manager's and board's heads after just three league games, even if one was a 7-1 loss away. And it's not much, but the cup win is still some mitigation.
Some people mistake rabid over-reaction for 'passion'. We're still only talking about three games. |
normally i'd agree with you when one of the defeats is 7-1 it's amazing how well many have taken it, I'm still shaking with anger 2 days on | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 08:42 - Aug 20 with 2315 views | Blue_Castello |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 08:18 - Aug 20 by daveB |
normally i'd agree with you when one of the defeats is 7-1 it's amazing how well many have taken it, I'm still shaking with anger 2 days on |
Thanks Dave a good report and for you to get so upset just shows how bad it was, you have shown far more patience than most on this message board over the last few years. To be honest I think it's a culmination of events that's got us all so wound up, the Holloway sacking, loosing the experienced players, for me sending Manning on loan and persisting with Cousins, the playing out from the back which doesn't work with our current squad, over the 90 minutes we were poor against Sheffield and deserved to loose.
The last time I went to the Hawthorns I saw us loose 5-1 if I remember correctly with Stefan Moore and that clown Bob Malcolm in the team, my abiding memory was their fans singing Can we play you every week as we left the ground.
Well I'm clinging to the hope that Amits tweet means he will be serious about getting something to change, let's hope he can convince Schteeeve to change his playing style. In some ways I feel sorry for Ingram but there is no room for sentiment, Lumley has to start on Tuesday and I'm convinced Baptiste will do a better job at centre back than the current occupants. | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 08:43 - Aug 20 with 2309 views | paulparker |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 05:04 - Aug 20 by isawqpratwcity |
It definitely is OTT to fill the board with calls for the manager's and board's heads after just three league games, even if one was a 7-1 loss away. And it's not much, but the cup win is still some mitigation.
Some people mistake rabid over-reaction for 'passion'. We're still only talking about three games. |
It definitely is OTT to fill the board with calls for the manager's and board's heads after just three league games,
well if the board had been here 3 games then I would agree with you
but this board have been in charge 7 years , in 7 years we have had 7 managers
around 100 players , wasted 250 million , copped a massive FFP fine , we still train on the end of a runway, and we are miles and miles behind Fulham & Brentford,
we also have a situation where the board goes over the DOF head when recruiting managers and loaning players
we have lurched from one disaster to another
this has been coming the warning signs are there , from the Premier league to league one that's this boards legacy that's why there is this reaction , apart from a few herberts on twitter they have copped an easy ride
have we really come to the point where we are saying well at least we beat Peterborough in the carabo cup ? |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 11:05 - Aug 20 with 2200 views | isawqpratwcity |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 08:43 - Aug 20 by paulparker |
It definitely is OTT to fill the board with calls for the manager's and board's heads after just three league games,
well if the board had been here 3 games then I would agree with you
but this board have been in charge 7 years , in 7 years we have had 7 managers
around 100 players , wasted 250 million , copped a massive FFP fine , we still train on the end of a runway, and we are miles and miles behind Fulham & Brentford,
we also have a situation where the board goes over the DOF head when recruiting managers and loaning players
we have lurched from one disaster to another
this has been coming the warning signs are there , from the Premier league to league one that's this boards legacy that's why there is this reaction , apart from a few herberts on twitter they have copped an easy ride
have we really come to the point where we are saying well at least we beat Peterborough in the carabo cup ? |
It's still three games. This is still a short-term problem.
If you want to rant about the last seven years (and I'm sure you do), knock yourself out. Some of us have a narrower focus about what needs to be done. | |
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| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 11:28 - Aug 20 with 2156 views | daveB |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 11:05 - Aug 20 by isawqpratwcity |
It's still three games. This is still a short-term problem.
If you want to rant about the last seven years (and I'm sure you do), knock yourself out. Some of us have a narrower focus about what needs to be done. |
How's McClarens points per game looking  | | | |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 11:40 - Aug 20 with 2122 views | isawqpratwcity |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 11:28 - Aug 20 by daveB |
How's McClarens points per game looking |
I never did it for Holloway until he had something like 15 games under his belt. You have to have a decent sample. I'd say let's review it in October but you don't think he is he is going to be here that long. | |
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| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 11:43 - Aug 20 with 2106 views | paulparker |
| West Brom Away - A bit of a Rant on 11:40 - Aug 20 by isawqpratwcity |
I never did it for Holloway until he had something like 15 games under his belt. You have to have a decent sample. I'd say let's review it in October but you don't think he is he is going to be here that long. |
failure to get anything out of Bristol city and Wigan at home and he should go never mind waiting another 10 games
losing 7-1 in your third game for a new club is as poor as it gets | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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