| Centre Backs 13:04 - Sep 1 with 2268 views | Dorse |
Genuinely interested - how come centrebacks seem to need 'experience' as an essential part of their armoury when clubs seem quite prepared to play inexperienced full-backs? Where are the young (i.e. 18-22 year old) centrebacks playing?
I'm not having a dig at anyone here - there are loads of people on here that know far more about our U23 and Development sides than me. However, I am genuinely interested in why a CB needs 'experience' when the FB playing ten yards away doesn't.
We had some U23 players a little while ago that seemed to be getting good reviews. Alex Finney has gone but Giles Phillips and Chris Paul seem to have disappeared too. Are we just not great at finding young CBs or are there none out there? |  |
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| Centre Backs on 13:13 - Sep 1 with 2241 views | Lblock |
Well there’s one with tonnes of experience been released been Dundee and available
No thanks!!!!
I think it’s the same with keepers, in this position mistakes get highlighted far more as the end up being costly |  |
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| Centre Backs on 13:16 - Sep 1 with 2238 views | ozexile |
I would sayp they need an experienced centre back along side them definitely. Mcdonald learnt an awful lot from Wicks. But to answer your question.....if you make a mistake at full back it can be recovered. If you make the same mistake at centre back it's generally a goal. |  | | |
| Centre Backs on 13:28 - Sep 1 with 2208 views | dontknowitall |
There is another centre back with tonnes of experience who has just been released by Southend United so is now a free agent. Only 33 years old. I give you ............................................Mr Anton Ferdinand |  | | |
| Centre Backs on 13:35 - Sep 1 with 2182 views | derbyhoop |
Finney was brought in after being release elsewhere (Bolton?).
Paul came from Spurs and hasn't got a new club.
Phillips came from the USA and is still playing U23s.
All 3 were punts on their hoped-for development.
Charlie Fox has just gone to Wycombe on loan, so hopefully gets enough games to help him develop.
I was also reasonably impressed with the little I saw of Joe Gubbins in U18s last season |  |
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| Centre Backs on 13:50 - Sep 1 with 2148 views | Esox_Lucius |
If we could find someone like 'boro's Dael Fry to play alongside Grant Hall we'd be set for years. |  |
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| Centre Backs on 12:38 - Sep 2 with 1898 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Centre Backs on 13:16 - Sep 1 by ozexile |
I would sayp they need an experienced centre back along side them definitely. Mcdonald learnt an awful lot from Wicks. But to answer your question.....if you make a mistake at full back it can be recovered. If you make the same mistake at centre back it's generally a goal. |
Funnily enough that's almost exactly the example that popped into my mind.
Defence operates as unit more than forwards or even midfield, where the individual bit of magic counts more. Someone has to boss the defence and I don't think you can do it from the flank, it's got to be a central defender or failing that the keeper. Keeper can shout orders but can't put in the covering tackle when the youngster has made an error.
Theoretically (say) Baptiste could operate alongside a younger player but its not just about experience its about being able to pass it on the the youngsters and having the speed of thought or of legs to cover for mistakes. | | | |
| Centre Backs on 13:20 - Sep 2 with 1835 views | CamberleyR |
| Centre Backs on 13:16 - Sep 1 by ozexile |
I would sayp they need an experienced centre back along side them definitely. Mcdonald learnt an awful lot from Wicks. But to answer your question.....if you make a mistake at full back it can be recovered. If you make the same mistake at centre back it's generally a goal. |
Don't think Macca played that much with Wicks at CB did he? In his early days I seem to recall him playing mainly alongside Fenwick when he played CB and for while under Smith he was played at RB with Fenwick/Wicks in the middle. I think I remember him playing RB in the 'Robinson from the halfway line' quarter final at the SW6 cesspit where he scored the first goal. |  |
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| Centre Backs on 15:44 - Sep 2 with 1753 views | terryb |
| Centre Backs on 13:16 - Sep 1 by ozexile |
I would sayp they need an experienced centre back along side them definitely. Mcdonald learnt an awful lot from Wicks. But to answer your question.....if you make a mistake at full back it can be recovered. If you make the same mistake at centre back it's generally a goal. |
Yes, but experienced defenders still make many mistakes!
Less than young defenders? Maybe, but I think it is open to question. | | | |
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| Centre Backs on 16:18 - Sep 2 with 1719 views | LunarJetman |
| Centre Backs on 13:50 - Sep 1 by Esox_Lucius |
If we could find someone like 'boro's Dael Fry to play alongside Grant Hall we'd be set for years. |
Who needs experience to sit in the treatment room? |  | | |
| Centre Backs on 02:05 - Sep 3 with 1553 views | timcocking |
It's modern day bullsh!t obviously.
In the "good old days" if they were good enough, they'd play. Nowadays if they're good enough, they go on loan and you have to pay frigging millions for some ageing journeyman to take his place because the modern manager is only ever a couple of games from being losing his job. A young centre back makes a mistake, the manager is an incompetent idiot and is sacked for it.
The reason central defence is so important, though, is that if you make a mistake at the back, it might cost you a goal. Wingers and forwards can't kill you by making mistakes, but defenders and goalkeepers can. This is precisely why most players would love playing out from the back in training and be able to do it comfortably but go to pieces in a match when they have the ball in defence. Only a certain player has the mentality to play without that fear. Not me. The pressure at that stage is just too great and they typically don't want the ball. Which was one of the many reasons Jack Robinson was so good.
In my opinion the lack of fear the youngsters have is precisely why they often seem to do better than the older pros.
Ps Re the dearth of centre backs in general, i suppose it's harder to look like a good centre back nowadays when you're generally facing quicker opponents and you aren't allowed to tackle, even a fair tackle might be penalised with a yellow or red card. [Post edited 3 Sep 2018 2:59]
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| Centre Backs on 06:53 - Sep 3 with 1485 views | ozexile |
| Centre Backs on 13:20 - Sep 2 by CamberleyR |
Don't think Macca played that much with Wicks at CB did he? In his early days I seem to recall him playing mainly alongside Fenwick when he played CB and for while under Smith he was played at RB with Fenwick/Wicks in the middle. I think I remember him playing RB in the 'Robinson from the halfway line' quarter final at the SW6 cesspit where he scored the first goal. |
I remember the famous utd game when John Byrne scored the winner. Jesper Olsen was caught in a wicks and McDonald sandwich. Needless to say he disappeared for the rest of the game. | | | |
| Centre Backs on 10:22 - Sep 3 with 1400 views | beanofire1 |
In an ideal scenario you could play a young CB alongside an experienced one. That's the perfect way to learn. |  |
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| Centre Backs on 11:49 - Sep 3 with 1325 views | WadR |
Brentford's starting CBs this season, Mepham and Konsa, are both 20 and they've been doing alright. But even then, Mepham only made appearances last season because of injuries to more experienced centrebacks and Konsa has 70+ appearances in L1. | | | |
| Centre Backs on 12:17 - Sep 3 with 1290 views | Dorse |
I think the mixture of experience and youth is important. However, we never really seem to develop young CBs at the club. Can't just be us, can it? I'm struggling to remember the last CB we brought through the ranks into the First Team proper.
Karl Ready? | |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Centre Backs on 12:30 - Sep 3 with 1273 views | Antti_Heinola |
CBs are interesting.
I heard that Arse have a great teenage CB, but they've basically said there's no chance he'll play for the first team - because clubs just will not risk youngsters in that position. It's the one place managers don't want to throw in youngsters, because there's no hiding place. (Not saying this is right, necessarily). I guess that's why you see a lot of CBs come into sides as full backs at first before they move across.
you only have to look at English centre backs to see the issue - none of the CBs around the national squad made their careers by coming through at big clubs. Stones, Tarkowski, Smalling, Mawson, Maguire etc - all made breakthroughs at lower levels first. Phil Jones starting at Blackburn was probably the closest.
Now, it's not necessarily a bad thing for players to drop down divisions, get games, and come back up. But it is hard for centre backs in particular to get, as they say, 'minutes'. Look at Grant Hall for us as an example of a player who got to a decent age before finally fitting in at a club. So much of being a central defender is about organisation and positioning, that it does feel like a position more than most where you need experience to improve.
Roy Keane in his book talks about full backs in flippant terms in the sense that they (he believes) have it easy compared to central midfielders - they can see everything, it's difficult to get behind them because of the touchline etc. Whereas as a centre back can have runners everywhere, and a centre back has to cover full backs more than vice versa (I suppose).
Agree with points above that a youngster with an older head can work well. |  |
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| Centre Backs on 12:48 - Sep 3 with 1254 views | derbyhoop |
| Centre Backs on 12:17 - Sep 3 by Dorse |
I think the mixture of experience and youth is important. However, we never really seem to develop young CBs at the club. Can't just be us, can it? I'm struggling to remember the last CB we brought through the ranks into the First Team proper.
Karl Ready? |
Probably Pat Kanyuka.
Didn't play a huge number of games for us (12) but went on to play close to 100 league games for a variety of clubs.
Dominic Shimmin, who we signed from Arsenal, made 38 appearnces for Morton. | |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Centre Backs on 13:00 - Sep 3 with 1222 views | Gloucs_R |
Hall was inexperienced when he joined us.
I cant remember the last CB who came through our ranks and made it at LR.
Max Ehmer is probably as close as we have come in recent years. Played over 120 games and now captain of Gillingham. [Post edited 3 Sep 2018 13:01]
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