| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 11:13 - Oct 13 with 7899 views | CamberleyR |
Selling off the family silver Macmillan called it. Royal Mail a classic example. It made a consistent profit for decades throughout the 80s/90s usually in the 100s of millions peaking in 1998/99 making nearly half a billion pounds! Money, the majority of which went into the public purse which now goes into the pockets of directors and shareholders. Gas/Electricity/Water a similar case. |  |
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| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 11:57 - Oct 13 with 7842 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Agreed. Plus, the private sector will not, will never, put the interests of the people first, leading to less rural post offices, bus services for the elderly, A&E's etc. |  |
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| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 12:18 - Oct 13 with 7807 views | DavieQPR |
Royal Mail made a profit for ages and then somebody came up with home computors and e mails. Nothing to do with who owned it. |  | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 12:22 - Oct 13 with 7799 views | Dorse |
I have never understood the rationale behind taking a revenue generating, publicly-owned service and out-sourcing it. Power, water, mail, healthcare, gas, rail, buses, education etc - have they actually improved as a result? Or are we all just being told that competition / consumer choice equates to a better service? |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 13:32 - Oct 13 with 7735 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 12:18 - Oct 13 by DavieQPR |
Royal Mail made a profit for ages and then somebody came up with home computors and e mails. Nothing to do with who owned it. |
Royal Mail was making profit right up until its privatisation in 2013.
Computers and emails have been common in the home since the 1990s. |  | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 13:35 - Oct 13 with 7731 views | stevec |
I agree privatisation doesn’t work for all the reasons mentioned in the article. Also agree bailing the banks out has had a huge negative effect.
However, it’s revealing that the Independent barely mentions the ongoing and unstoppable pension deficit costs of public companies, the cost of which are crippling this country .
Public service pensions are so out of kilter with private pensions, bearing virtually no relation to what employees pay in and yet no government has the guts to do anything about it. |  | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 13:41 - Oct 13 with 7718 views | OutWestR |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 12:18 - Oct 13 by DavieQPR |
Royal Mail made a profit for ages and then somebody came up with home computors and e mails. Nothing to do with who owned it. |
Pretty tricky emailing a parcel to someone. |  | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 14:23 - Oct 13 with 7675 views | Boston |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 13:41 - Oct 13 by OutWestR |
Pretty tricky emailing a parcel to someone. |
Do stop droning on OutWest
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| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 16:24 - Oct 13 with 7587 views | SimonJames |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 13:32 - Oct 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Royal Mail was making profit right up until its privatisation in 2013.
Computers and emails have been common in the home since the 1990s. |
The world of communications and mail delivery has changed a lot since 2013.
People and businesses rarely send letters through the post now - why pay for stamps when you can send it digitally for free.
WhatsApp, texting, online billing, etc. negates the need for most other types of letters.
Amazon can deliver a package to me within hours of me ordering it. I can even track the progress of their delivery driver in real time. In fact I'm waiting for a delivery right now and I can see that the driver has 4 deliveries to make in my street.
I doubt Royal Mail could compete with that - and what would it cost to restructure? |  |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 17:37 - Oct 13 with 7523 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 16:24 - Oct 13 by SimonJames |
The world of communications and mail delivery has changed a lot since 2013.
People and businesses rarely send letters through the post now - why pay for stamps when you can send it digitally for free.
WhatsApp, texting, online billing, etc. negates the need for most other types of letters.
Amazon can deliver a package to me within hours of me ordering it. I can even track the progress of their delivery driver in real time. In fact I'm waiting for a delivery right now and I can see that the driver has 4 deliveries to make in my street.
I doubt Royal Mail could compete with that - and what would it cost to restructure? |
I thought Amazon uses other companies for deliveries. UPS, FedEx etc? |  |
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| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 18:20 - Oct 13 with 7478 views | kropotkin41 |
Privatisation was never meant to "work" in terms of delivering better services. It did and continues to do exactly what it was always intended to do: it delivers dividends to shareholders and bonuses to bosses and fund managers. Privatisation was always robbery and a manifestation of class war, a counter attack, if you like.
I appreciate that this point of view may be somewhat controversial, but to be honest, if you haven't figured out yet that capitalism only "works" for the ruling class and their few lackeys (and then only until social and environmental limits catch up with them) then either you probably have a very expensive car in your rather wide drive and like a little bit of self-deceit, or you're just a bit daft and like getting f*cked over by people who don't care if you live or die. |  |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 19:11 - Oct 13 with 7417 views | Snipper |
Privatisation happens for one thing only. No, not to make services better, but to make shedloads of money for their cronies who are directors of the companies involved. |  | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 19:40 - Oct 13 with 7378 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 18:20 - Oct 13 by kropotkin41 |
Privatisation was never meant to "work" in terms of delivering better services. It did and continues to do exactly what it was always intended to do: it delivers dividends to shareholders and bonuses to bosses and fund managers. Privatisation was always robbery and a manifestation of class war, a counter attack, if you like.
I appreciate that this point of view may be somewhat controversial, but to be honest, if you haven't figured out yet that capitalism only "works" for the ruling class and their few lackeys (and then only until social and environmental limits catch up with them) then either you probably have a very expensive car in your rather wide drive and like a little bit of self-deceit, or you're just a bit daft and like getting f*cked over by people who don't care if you live or die. |
Well said that man. | |
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| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 09:28 - Oct 14 with 7188 views | plasmahoop |
Privatisation is good if it stimulates competition, like phones, but bad if it's just a privatised monopoly like railways.
The article slightly misses the point, as governments have the ability to tax. The uks tax base is a lot stronger than Gambia. However paying for public sector pensions will ensure permanently higher taxes for everyone. The public sector don't appreciate how lucky they are. Moaning like hell masks the fact that the working class are being shafted to pay for all the public sector jobs and pensions | | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 10:40 - Oct 14 with 7114 views | Trom |
The pensions point is a good one.
In the private sector defined benefit pension plans simply don’t exist because they can no longer be funded.. in the public sector where the tax payer foots the bill they do. Defined benefit plans were designed when life expectancy was much lower. Paying somebody 2/3 of their final salary when on average they live 15 years post retirement date is economic madness.
So I’m all for public sector but if services are renationalised then the pension plans need to change to defined contribution. |  | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 11:42 - Oct 14 with 7070 views | ShotKneesHoop |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 16:24 - Oct 13 by SimonJames |
The world of communications and mail delivery has changed a lot since 2013.
People and businesses rarely send letters through the post now - why pay for stamps when you can send it digitally for free.
WhatsApp, texting, online billing, etc. negates the need for most other types of letters.
Amazon can deliver a package to me within hours of me ordering it. I can even track the progress of their delivery driver in real time. In fact I'm waiting for a delivery right now and I can see that the driver has 4 deliveries to make in my street.
I doubt Royal Mail could compete with that - and what would it cost to restructure? |
Royal Mail do some of Amazon's deliveries - their parcels business is booming as the letter business declines |  |
| Why does it feel like R'SWiPe is still on the books? Yer Couldn't Make It Up.Well Done Me! |
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| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 11:50 - Oct 14 with 7063 views | stevec |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 09:28 - Oct 14 by plasmahoop |
Privatisation is good if it stimulates competition, like phones, but bad if it's just a privatised monopoly like railways.
The article slightly misses the point, as governments have the ability to tax. The uks tax base is a lot stronger than Gambia. However paying for public sector pensions will ensure permanently higher taxes for everyone. The public sector don't appreciate how lucky they are. Moaning like hell masks the fact that the working class are being shafted to pay for all the public sector jobs and pensions |
Spot on.
Private sector workers, ie 4 in 5 of us, on what is now accepted are actually average wages less than their public sector counterparts are being robbed through taxation to pay for the unsustainable public sector pensions.
Strange how you never see this stuff being aired publicly. | | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 11:55 - Oct 14 with 7047 views | Rangersw12 |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 11:42 - Oct 14 by ShotKneesHoop |
Royal Mail do some of Amazon's deliveries - their parcels business is booming as the letter business declines |
They're usually the ones that arrive late or go missing | | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 12:58 - Oct 14 with 6974 views | ThGrimRanger |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 13:32 - Oct 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Royal Mail was making profit right up until its privatisation in 2013.
Computers and emails have been common in the home since the 1990s. |
Do you seriously believe yourself when you say "Computers and emails have been common in the home since the 1990s." taking no account in the growth of their usage since then. Also the pension liability deficit of the royal mail was 10 billion pounds at the time of the float back in 2013. That entire deficit had to be taken on by the taxpayer. And a 10 billion pound deficit doesn't just happen - it was failing horribly prior to privatisation.
Anyway enough of that shite as this is supposed to be a footy forum - I'm assuming you posted this thread to test the water on how left of Corbyn the average active respondent now is on this site.
Well judging by the responses so far then things are going pretty well by the looks of things Bazza. However there are still a couple of Ed Miliband like centralist voices remaining that need to be ground down with your never-allow-the-last-word approach to posting.
Power to the people! |  |
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| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 13:35 - Oct 14 with 6930 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 12:58 - Oct 14 by ThGrimRanger |
Do you seriously believe yourself when you say "Computers and emails have been common in the home since the 1990s." taking no account in the growth of their usage since then. Also the pension liability deficit of the royal mail was 10 billion pounds at the time of the float back in 2013. That entire deficit had to be taken on by the taxpayer. And a 10 billion pound deficit doesn't just happen - it was failing horribly prior to privatisation.
Anyway enough of that shite as this is supposed to be a footy forum - I'm assuming you posted this thread to test the water on how left of Corbyn the average active respondent now is on this site.
Well judging by the responses so far then things are going pretty well by the looks of things Bazza. However there are still a couple of Ed Miliband like centralist voices remaining that need to be ground down with your never-allow-the-last-word approach to posting.
Power to the people! |
So what? Should the public unburden itself from all public service pensions? Nurses? Firemen? Why should anyone receive a pension at all? What is the difference to the tax payer paying into a public servants pension, or contributing to the profits of a multi national company and their overseas shareholders? I know which one puts money back
As for being a failure prior to 2013, thats just incorrect. It has made more profit since then, granted, but it would when you cut and sell services that were vital but not profitable.
I did say it was non QPR. It was intended as warning for snowflakes like yourself so you only have yourself to blame for this weird outrage.
Glad you think Ed Miliband is a Centrist and acknowledge that the centre ground has moved.
Have a vvank and cry mate. That is my last word. | | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 13:41 - Oct 14 with 6920 views | stevec |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 13:35 - Oct 14 by BazzaInTheLoft |
So what? Should the public unburden itself from all public service pensions? Nurses? Firemen? Why should anyone receive a pension at all? What is the difference to the tax payer paying into a public servants pension, or contributing to the profits of a multi national company and their overseas shareholders? I know which one puts money back
As for being a failure prior to 2013, thats just incorrect. It has made more profit since then, granted, but it would when you cut and sell services that were vital but not profitable.
I did say it was non QPR. It was intended as warning for snowflakes like yourself so you only have yourself to blame for this weird outrage.
Glad you think Ed Miliband is a Centrist and acknowledge that the centre ground has moved.
Have a vvank and cry mate. That is my last word. |
Methinks this particular thread is not going quite the way you wanted? | | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 14:39 - Oct 14 with 6857 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 13:41 - Oct 14 by stevec |
Methinks this particular thread is not going quite the way you wanted? |
Free of WUMs? No. | | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 14:39 - Oct 14 with 6857 views | Trom |
Here are the top 10 UK careers by pension. They are all public sector:
https://www.moneywise.co.uk/pensions/retirement-lifestyle/top-10-jobs-pensions
The only reason these don't exist in the private sector is that they would bankrupt a company.
For example, a policeman can retire at 55 with a further 25 years life expectancy.
In the private sector most pensions are defined contribution. So you get a fixed % of your salary paid into a pension plan and what that pays for on retirement is your issue.
The switch from defined benefit to defined contribution was inevitable for private sector companies once life expectancies increased dramatically post 65. The public sector has clung on to defined benefit as ultimately the risk is with the tax payer.
The way defined benefit works is that the employer contributes to a fund of assets over the employees working life which then are used to generate the guaranteed payments (based on % of final salary) until they die.
Currently, it is estimated that only 15% of public sector pensions are funded. So in 85% of cases, the taxpayer is expected to fund all the payments. | | | |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 14:42 - Oct 14 with 6852 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 14:39 - Oct 14 by Trom |
Here are the top 10 UK careers by pension. They are all public sector:
https://www.moneywise.co.uk/pensions/retirement-lifestyle/top-10-jobs-pensions
The only reason these don't exist in the private sector is that they would bankrupt a company.
For example, a policeman can retire at 55 with a further 25 years life expectancy.
In the private sector most pensions are defined contribution. So you get a fixed % of your salary paid into a pension plan and what that pays for on retirement is your issue.
The switch from defined benefit to defined contribution was inevitable for private sector companies once life expectancies increased dramatically post 65. The public sector has clung on to defined benefit as ultimately the risk is with the tax payer.
The way defined benefit works is that the employer contributes to a fund of assets over the employees working life which then are used to generate the guaranteed payments (based on % of final salary) until they die.
Currently, it is estimated that only 15% of public sector pensions are funded. So in 85% of cases, the taxpayer is expected to fund all the payments. |
I think you'll find the MOST generous pensions are in the Private sector, just not fairly distributed to the lowest earners.
Restriction of Trade Union activity is the biggest reason private sector workers are worse off.
I'm definitely happy to contribute (as a tax payer) to the pensions funds of those remove brain tumours from children or pull my family out of fires etc. [Post edited 14 Oct 2018 14:46]
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| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 14:46 - Oct 14 with 6842 views | SimonJames |
| Privatisation Doesn’t Work (Non QPR) on 11:42 - Oct 14 by ShotKneesHoop |
Royal Mail do some of Amazon's deliveries - their parcels business is booming as the letter business declines |
Yes they do... as a delivery partner operating under the overall control of Amazon's supply chain.
But I doubt they offer some of the express delivery times that Amazon's other delivery partners do. And how would a still nationalised parcel service have fared in this market? | |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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