| Our country is fckd match thread 20:04 - Jan 15 with 204578 views | BlackCrowe |
On one side we have a spineless and rudderless government full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
On the other side we have spineless and rudderless opposition full of self-serving narcissistic cnts utterly divided.
Can someone please show us a third way beyond flipping Vince. Failing a Chuka et al third way then Disco, you're the man no to save us from jezwecan, Diane, Sneery Emily and McDonnell no? [Post edited 15 Jan 2019 20:05]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:00 - May 30 with 1674 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:09 - May 30 by traininvain |
Maybe that's the solution, London to become independent and the rest of the UK to leave the EU.
We did have an overwhelming majority in London of c60% remain. |
The reality that it was a UK vote, proportional representation, where every vote counts no matter where you are in the UK, is beyond the understanding of the elite remainers as it does not support their wishes.
One areas vote is not separate or carries more weight than any other.
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:12 - May 30 with 1640 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:59 - May 29 by loftboy |
It’s pretty much what Cameron said we were voting for, leaving the custom union, leaving the trade union, he was probably trying to make it as unappealing as possible and it back fired on him big time, add that to Theresa Mays leave means leave rhetoric and I think it’s quite obvious what we were voting/voted for. |
JC knows this, that's why he wants a GE which is a crooked system (first past the post) as ever vote does NOT count and thereby fecking over Labour leavers. | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:15 - May 30 with 1630 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 09:37 - May 30 by loftboy |
And there lays the problem , our MP’s are so Londoncentric that they think that whatever happens in London the rest of the country thinks the same, if Corbyn bows to pressure and backs a second referendum then most of his mp’s I’m the north of the country will be on the dole after the next election. |
I’m probably looking at this a bit too simplistically but the reaction this seems to get is akin to him calling for scrapping Brexit. I could understand a huge negative reaction to that. All a second ref is is a chance to establish the “will of the people” after a first that would’ve been declared void had it been binding.
I guess you then have to have a whole other debate about what the question would be. Personally I’d have it as May’s deal v Remain but appreciate that won’t be a popular view here. With hindsight, that’s what the first one should have been. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:18 - May 30 with 1621 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 22:44 - May 29 by AnonymousR |
How so?
The red lines were:
Out of the Single Market
Out of the Customs Union
Ending free movement
The WA supported all of these and the EU agreed. What the EU insists upon is that any post-Brexit trade agreement will require, as a precondition, the Irish Backstop. This is to protect the integrity of the remaining countries in the EU. Seems reasonable. |
You can give away any number of red lines in negotiations if your one remaining red line ensures any deal will never materialise. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:18 - May 30 with 1618 views | traininvain |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:00 - May 30 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
The reality that it was a UK vote, proportional representation, where every vote counts no matter where you are in the UK, is beyond the understanding of the elite remainers as it does not support their wishes.
One areas vote is not separate or carries more weight than any other.
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I'm well aware it was a UK vote. It was a somewhat tongue in cheek suggestion that maybe an independent London would be the best solution.
Ironic that we all follow a football club in the heart of west London within a borough which was 70% remain! |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:00 - May 30 with 1568 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:18 - May 30 by traininvain |
I'm well aware it was a UK vote. It was a somewhat tongue in cheek suggestion that maybe an independent London would be the best solution.
Ironic that we all follow a football club in the heart of west London within a borough which was 70% remain! |
I take it that's tongue in cheek also | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:09 - May 30 with 1564 views | derbyhoop |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:00 - May 30 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
The reality that it was a UK vote, proportional representation, where every vote counts no matter where you are in the UK, is beyond the understanding of the elite remainers as it does not support their wishes.
One areas vote is not separate or carries more weight than any other.
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The recent EP elections were based on PR.
Depends how you analyse the Tory and Labour vote but
Pro-Brexit parties (Farage, UKIP) - 34%
Anti-Brexit parties (LD, Green, SNP, Plaid, Sinn Fein, Alliance) - 41% |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 12:10 - May 30 with 1507 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:59 - May 30 by traininvain |
It's not a reason to remain but it is a fact. Like it or not.
I'd be genuinely interested in how many pro Brexit on here live in London. |
Who R ya... Old Bill, you'll want names and address next  | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:13 - May 30 with 1444 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:09 - May 30 by derbyhoop |
The recent EP elections were based on PR.
Depends how you analyse the Tory and Labour vote but
Pro-Brexit parties (Farage, UKIP) - 34%
Anti-Brexit parties (LD, Green, SNP, Plaid, Sinn Fein, Alliance) - 41% |
That is a very big "but" | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:24 - May 30 with 1427 views | jonno |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:09 - May 30 by derbyhoop |
The recent EP elections were based on PR.
Depends how you analyse the Tory and Labour vote but
Pro-Brexit parties (Farage, UKIP) - 34%
Anti-Brexit parties (LD, Green, SNP, Plaid, Sinn Fein, Alliance) - 41% |
Exactly the same thing was said on TV the other day - it was correctly dismissed because those figures should read No Deal WTO Brexit 34% Anti Brexit 41%. They then worked out the split in the Labour and Tory votes and guess what? Came up with a figure of 48% Remain 52% Leave - exactly the same as the Referendum! |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:45 - May 30 with 1401 views | loftboy |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:59 - May 30 by traininvain |
It's not a reason to remain but it is a fact. Like it or not.
I'd be genuinely interested in how many pro Brexit on here live in London. |
Me |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 15:47 - May 30 with 1366 views | kensalriser |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 14:24 - May 30 by jonno |
Exactly the same thing was said on TV the other day - it was correctly dismissed because those figures should read No Deal WTO Brexit 34% Anti Brexit 41%. They then worked out the split in the Labour and Tory votes and guess what? Came up with a figure of 48% Remain 52% Leave - exactly the same as the Referendum! |
If you want to make your head hurt there's loads of analysis here:
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/05/my-euro-election-post-vote-poll-most-tory-
Bottom line is the country is equally and hopelessly divided.
That said, I think we are far beyond the simple question of EU membership now. It's much more serious than that. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 16:26 - May 30 with 1325 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Yep
As a Labour supporter (mostly) I whole blame Labour, they said they would honour and implement the result and have not, excuse after excuse, more interested in getting a GE
Far more split than the Tories.
LD may have support on remaining but just as untrustworthy in running a government.
There is this delusion that we can just go back before the referendum and everything will be fine, it won't
A Boris PM or a JC PM in a hung parliament, both totally useless. | |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 17:28 - May 30 with 1271 views | essextaxiboy |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:09 - May 30 by derbyhoop |
The recent EP elections were based on PR.
Depends how you analyse the Tory and Labour vote but
Pro-Brexit parties (Farage, UKIP) - 34%
Anti-Brexit parties (LD, Green, SNP, Plaid, Sinn Fein, Alliance) - 41% |
Again....
1/ Both Tory and Labour pledged to uphold the referendum and follow through with Brexit.
for me that doesnt need much analysis .
2/ Did all of the Green voters vote for them on Brexit bearing in mind huge climate change demos recently.
3/ Did all of the SNP voters vote for them on Brexit or another crack at independence?
This argument is so desperate its almost funny ..... |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 17:39 - May 30 with 1260 views | traininvain |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 17:28 - May 30 by essextaxiboy |
Again....
1/ Both Tory and Labour pledged to uphold the referendum and follow through with Brexit.
for me that doesnt need much analysis .
2/ Did all of the Green voters vote for them on Brexit bearing in mind huge climate change demos recently.
3/ Did all of the SNP voters vote for them on Brexit or another crack at independence?
This argument is so desperate its almost funny ..... |
Almost as funny as suggesting that people vote Green and support Brexit. They're clearly anti Brexit.
Just a reminder on some of the quotes from the front page of the Green Party's website.
"Take action on climate breakdown and join our fight to stop Brexit and stop climate change. Become a member of the Green Party today."
"We have the most progressive vision for Britain's place in Europe, and we will always stand up for real democracy."
"Real democracy
The terms of Brexit weren’t on the ballot paper. We need a people’s vote on the final deal and our place in Europe" | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 17:53 - May 30 with 1243 views | Sharpy36 |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 17:28 - May 30 by essextaxiboy |
Again....
1/ Both Tory and Labour pledged to uphold the referendum and follow through with Brexit.
for me that doesnt need much analysis .
2/ Did all of the Green voters vote for them on Brexit bearing in mind huge climate change demos recently.
3/ Did all of the SNP voters vote for them on Brexit or another crack at independence?
This argument is so desperate its almost funny ..... |
Take out the EU nationals that wont be able to vote should there be a second referendum also. |  |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:14 - May 30 with 1215 views | essextaxiboy |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 17:39 - May 30 by traininvain |
Almost as funny as suggesting that people vote Green and support Brexit. They're clearly anti Brexit.
Just a reminder on some of the quotes from the front page of the Green Party's website.
"Take action on climate breakdown and join our fight to stop Brexit and stop climate change. Become a member of the Green Party today."
"We have the most progressive vision for Britain's place in Europe, and we will always stand up for real democracy."
"Real democracy
The terms of Brexit weren’t on the ballot paper. We need a people’s vote on the final deal and our place in Europe" |
So you know for a fact that the Green party would have got zero votes if they had been pro Brexit ? .... None ? | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:17 - May 30 with 1208 views | AnonymousR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 10:18 - May 30 by QPR_John |
You can give away any number of red lines in negotiations if your one remaining red line ensures any deal will never materialise. |
So which red lines did the Govt give away? |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:32 - May 30 with 1188 views | essextaxiboy |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:17 - May 30 by AnonymousR |
So which red lines did the Govt give away? |
Nothing is agreed til everything is agreed.
We will negotiate the trade deal alongside the withdrawal agreement .
No deal is better than a bad deal
[Post edited 30 May 2019 18:34]
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:43 - May 30 with 1178 views | Tonto |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:14 - May 30 by essextaxiboy |
So you know for a fact that the Green party would have got zero votes if they had been pro Brexit ? .... None ? |
No. That obviously isn't what he is saying. He is saying pretty close ton100% of people who did vote green are remain. |  |
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| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:50 - May 30 with 1175 views | stevec |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 11:09 - May 30 by derbyhoop |
The recent EP elections were based on PR.
Depends how you analyse the Tory and Labour vote but
Pro-Brexit parties (Farage, UKIP) - 34%
Anti-Brexit parties (LD, Green, SNP, Plaid, Sinn Fein, Alliance) - 41% |
You'll be telling me we won at West Brom next. |  | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 19:21 - May 30 with 1157 views | AnonymousR |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:32 - May 30 by essextaxiboy |
Nothing is agreed til everything is agreed.
We will negotiate the trade deal alongside the withdrawal agreement .
No deal is better than a bad deal
[Post edited 30 May 2019 18:34]
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A number of institutions - including the government - have written extensively on the implications of No-Deal and the substantial majority feeling is that No-Deal Brexit wouldn't be the end of the world but very, very, very bad.
People disagree about the extent and duration of damage and disruption from a No-Deal Brexit, but there is near universal agreement it will be considerable. Over the last 40 years, the UK and EU have heavily interlinked the way they operate and the way businesses, bureaucracies and institutions work. Leaving without a deal - without replacement - stops many of the legal agreements and structures which enable that.
Tariffs would be obligated. For many goods, this will make no difference but for others, e.g. lamb, EU tariff peaks would lock UK producers out of what is currently their only market.
The paperwork currently required to conduct trade between the UK and EU is minimal. So much so that business which trade exclusively with the EU do not have to register as exporters. This will abruptly stop in a No-Deal. The basic export document runs to 32 pages with 100+ pages of guidance. And that is for single exports. If an item is comprised of components from several supply chains, each element will need to be documented and recorded, for every transaction. The administration of this will be both expensive and time-consuming for UK business
It is accepted by almost everyone that the administration will create supply chain and port disruption. The effects of this are extremely difficult to model with accuracy, hence the massive stockpiling by many businesses. E.g. The manufacture of industrial waste water purification filters in the UK was reviewed. It would only take minor damage to some key sewage plants in the UK to back up the domestic water supply.
The EU's obligations to provide the UK access to its services market under WTO rules are considerably more modest than those in goods. In a variety of sectors, UK firms and UK individuals will lose the right to sell services (like insurance) into the EU, to operate EU branches or to travel to the EU to undertake work in person.
Yeah, no deal is sunlit uplands. | | | |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 19:33 - May 30 with 1139 views | QPR_John |
| Our country is fckd match thread on 18:17 - May 30 by AnonymousR |
So which red lines did the Govt give away? |
Having the EU control of a part of the UK | | | |
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