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Game of Thones (with spoilers) 13:50 - May 14 with 4575 viewsFDC

What did people think of the last episode (The Bells)?

I've been quite surprised by the backlash against it.

Like loads of people, I got massively invested in GoT, decided to read the books, then got a bit disillusioned by the show when it moved past the source material. I posted a link on the Half Decent TV thread to a twitter thread about screen-writing styles, and how George RR Martin was basically writing characters, following them around, seeing what the ended up doing, with few actual pre-determined plot points. This makes the characters totally believable, and the shocking things they do all the more shocking. It also explains why he's struggled to finish the books (he once said in an interview something about "I'm having difficulty writing this because Daenerys is stuck in Essos and I need her in Westeros".)

The show writers, like all show writers with a deadline and a contract to fulfill, on the other hand are 'plotters', meaning they know where the story needs to go so they marshal the characters in to position. This is why, since leaving the Song of Ice and Fire book material behind, it feels quite different, and also why characters appear to teleport around Westeros where they would have taken a whole season travelling previously.

The thing is, this has been the case for years now, and it isn't like Daenerys turning into the mad queen hasn't been on the cards for ages anyway, so why all the outrage over the last episode? Any strong opinions?

Edit: And there were some genuinely excellent moment, like this



[Post edited 14 May 14:01]
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 14:08 - May 14 with 1996 viewsPhildo

It feels rushed from a series that sometimes seemed to take too long to make things happen in the past.

I don't mind the character arc for Deanerys - power corrupts she has been a queen for a long time and as we have seen with Blair,Putin and every dictator in history a lot of them start out with good intentions but end up believing they are all powerful.

I suspect Martin had this intended for her character all along. But to develop it over a couple of episodes is just too quick.

'Usual left of centre poster' (have never voted labour)

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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 14:22 - May 14 with 1969 viewsNed_Kennedys

The current series has been a bit of a disappointment as it feels like they have to cram in a hell of a lot into the final six episodes. Dany making the decision to destroy and kill the whole of Westeros including innocent civilians seemed a massive step out of character to me: she could've just concentrated on the armies and fleet, then destroyed the Red Keep and Cersei.
Its been great TV though overall through 8 series.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 14:27 - May 14 with 1962 viewsrobith

As someone who is an enormous fan of the books, this final season has been absolute garbage. A Song of Ice and Fire, and by proxy Game of Thrones, has always been a story that unfurled slowly. By truncating the final 2 seasons the change of pace makes it feel stupid, and it means that stuff happens far too quickly. I kinda lost hope for it after the dumb "Avengers steal a zombie" plot last year, shudder.

For example Dany turning. I would argue it hasn't really been foreshadowed because the show's POV was that all the bad things Dany did were justified because of her end goal, repeatedly stated of justice for all. So for her to turn full war criminal because of one 2 minute scene where Jon refuses to make out with her meant what should have been a harrowing development just had me going "....but why?" the whole time.

Likewise - Jaime has been on a seven year redemption arc that he abandons in one 30 second scene to go to Cersei to....die in a cavern?

Euron becomes a teleportation device to aide the plot. I almost turned it off when he appeared on that beach.

Arya one hits the Night King. Cool I guess, but what about the Azor Ahai prophesy? If it's not true, cool, but it would be nice for it to be mentioned.

The Behind the Scenes with the writers on which when asked how Dany got ambushed they said "Dany kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet". Oh, ok then.

The coffee cup, Jaime having both his hands back, getting Gendry's surname wrong - it's all so sloppy.

What is the point of Bran? In fact what was the point of the Others? All seems so pointless.

Endless fake death fake outs

Varys, the master of spiders, who survived the Mad King goes up to Jon on a beach and goes "Hey Jon, wanna commit some treason?"

Jon tries to defeat the ice dragon by shouting at it

Dany's army got obliterated in episode 3, but now appears even bigger in episode 5? Euron's scorpions take out a dragon NBD, but this week one dragon destroys a whole city?

Where has the rest of the country gone? Feels like only Winterfell and King's Landing exist any more

Why is Tyrion so stupid now? Why is Jon so stupid, his plans make no sense.

Ever sense they moved past the immediate source material they hammer everything so hard and literally. I swear Tyrion said "bells" about 40 times before the battle.

The actors and even GRRM are openly criticising it in public. D&D couldn't care less. HBO offered them whatever they wanted. They chose a rush job in 12 episodes so they could go do Star Wars. GRRM is never gonna finish those books so this is all I'm gonna get.

It looks gorgeous, the score is out of this world, but in a show that was all about the characters they've thrown all development and consistency out the window to hit plot points without enough set up. I know it's just a show, but I'm a weirdo fantasy nerd and those books and the pals and the experiences I've had from them have been amazing and my resolution to that story is two hacks going "Dany commits genocide because shes sad" is absolutely crushing.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 14:30 - May 14 with 1953 viewsrobith

I also accidentally read a leak of the alleged plot before the season started that I thought sounded stupid, but every part is coming true, which if carries on, the ending is going to be powerfully lame
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 14:38 - May 14 with 1944 viewsOrthodox_Hoop

Season 8 is has just been a garbled mess so far. 7 seasons worth of character arcs doing a 180 degree turn at the flip of a switch with no explanation whatsoever. This final season while looking great has the feel of a show where the makers cannot wait to get it over and done with as soon as possible. HBO made it clear they were happy for GoT to run a full 10 seasons, and that would have been about right with what they've tried to achieve with the story line and pace and flow of previous seasons. What we're left with is a 6 part final season 8 to cram all the stories together and bring it all to a quick finish and it really shows. Couple this with some awful writing and quite bizarre plot armour some of the characters have and it's no wonder this season has already been branded as the season that kills the show. It's no wonder the best seasons were the first 4 which were lifted almost entirely from GRRM's books; as soon as they deviated from the books and stepped into uncharted waters you could sense a palpable drop in the show's quality. Massive shame really.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:13 - May 14 with 1888 viewsOrthodox_Hoop

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 14:27 - May 14 by robith

As someone who is an enormous fan of the books, this final season has been absolute garbage. A Song of Ice and Fire, and by proxy Game of Thrones, has always been a story that unfurled slowly. By truncating the final 2 seasons the change of pace makes it feel stupid, and it means that stuff happens far too quickly. I kinda lost hope for it after the dumb "Avengers steal a zombie" plot last year, shudder.

For example Dany turning. I would argue it hasn't really been foreshadowed because the show's POV was that all the bad things Dany did were justified because of her end goal, repeatedly stated of justice for all. So for her to turn full war criminal because of one 2 minute scene where Jon refuses to make out with her meant what should have been a harrowing development just had me going "....but why?" the whole time.

Likewise - Jaime has been on a seven year redemption arc that he abandons in one 30 second scene to go to Cersei to....die in a cavern?

Euron becomes a teleportation device to aide the plot. I almost turned it off when he appeared on that beach.

Arya one hits the Night King. Cool I guess, but what about the Azor Ahai prophesy? If it's not true, cool, but it would be nice for it to be mentioned.

The Behind the Scenes with the writers on which when asked how Dany got ambushed they said "Dany kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet". Oh, ok then.

The coffee cup, Jaime having both his hands back, getting Gendry's surname wrong - it's all so sloppy.

What is the point of Bran? In fact what was the point of the Others? All seems so pointless.

Endless fake death fake outs

Varys, the master of spiders, who survived the Mad King goes up to Jon on a beach and goes "Hey Jon, wanna commit some treason?"

Jon tries to defeat the ice dragon by shouting at it

Dany's army got obliterated in episode 3, but now appears even bigger in episode 5? Euron's scorpions take out a dragon NBD, but this week one dragon destroys a whole city?

Where has the rest of the country gone? Feels like only Winterfell and King's Landing exist any more

Why is Tyrion so stupid now? Why is Jon so stupid, his plans make no sense.

Ever sense they moved past the immediate source material they hammer everything so hard and literally. I swear Tyrion said "bells" about 40 times before the battle.

The actors and even GRRM are openly criticising it in public. D&D couldn't care less. HBO offered them whatever they wanted. They chose a rush job in 12 episodes so they could go do Star Wars. GRRM is never gonna finish those books so this is all I'm gonna get.

It looks gorgeous, the score is out of this world, but in a show that was all about the characters they've thrown all development and consistency out the window to hit plot points without enough set up. I know it's just a show, but I'm a weirdo fantasy nerd and those books and the pals and the experiences I've had from them have been amazing and my resolution to that story is two hacks going "Dany commits genocide because shes sad" is absolutely crushing.


As if I'd written it myself mate. One thing I'd add: the treatment of Ghost was unforgivable. Justice for Ghost!
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:18 - May 14 with 1870 viewsFDC

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 14:27 - May 14 by robith

As someone who is an enormous fan of the books, this final season has been absolute garbage. A Song of Ice and Fire, and by proxy Game of Thrones, has always been a story that unfurled slowly. By truncating the final 2 seasons the change of pace makes it feel stupid, and it means that stuff happens far too quickly. I kinda lost hope for it after the dumb "Avengers steal a zombie" plot last year, shudder.

For example Dany turning. I would argue it hasn't really been foreshadowed because the show's POV was that all the bad things Dany did were justified because of her end goal, repeatedly stated of justice for all. So for her to turn full war criminal because of one 2 minute scene where Jon refuses to make out with her meant what should have been a harrowing development just had me going "....but why?" the whole time.

Likewise - Jaime has been on a seven year redemption arc that he abandons in one 30 second scene to go to Cersei to....die in a cavern?

Euron becomes a teleportation device to aide the plot. I almost turned it off when he appeared on that beach.

Arya one hits the Night King. Cool I guess, but what about the Azor Ahai prophesy? If it's not true, cool, but it would be nice for it to be mentioned.

The Behind the Scenes with the writers on which when asked how Dany got ambushed they said "Dany kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet". Oh, ok then.

The coffee cup, Jaime having both his hands back, getting Gendry's surname wrong - it's all so sloppy.

What is the point of Bran? In fact what was the point of the Others? All seems so pointless.

Endless fake death fake outs

Varys, the master of spiders, who survived the Mad King goes up to Jon on a beach and goes "Hey Jon, wanna commit some treason?"

Jon tries to defeat the ice dragon by shouting at it

Dany's army got obliterated in episode 3, but now appears even bigger in episode 5? Euron's scorpions take out a dragon NBD, but this week one dragon destroys a whole city?

Where has the rest of the country gone? Feels like only Winterfell and King's Landing exist any more

Why is Tyrion so stupid now? Why is Jon so stupid, his plans make no sense.

Ever sense they moved past the immediate source material they hammer everything so hard and literally. I swear Tyrion said "bells" about 40 times before the battle.

The actors and even GRRM are openly criticising it in public. D&D couldn't care less. HBO offered them whatever they wanted. They chose a rush job in 12 episodes so they could go do Star Wars. GRRM is never gonna finish those books so this is all I'm gonna get.

It looks gorgeous, the score is out of this world, but in a show that was all about the characters they've thrown all development and consistency out the window to hit plot points without enough set up. I know it's just a show, but I'm a weirdo fantasy nerd and those books and the pals and the experiences I've had from them have been amazing and my resolution to that story is two hacks going "Dany commits genocide because shes sad" is absolutely crushing.


Have to admit some of those made me chuckle.

I guess my point is just that, yeah, it's been like this for a good few seasons (my wife threatened to divorce me during season 7 for moaning about the time it should take to travel any given distance in Westeros), so I'm surprised at how everyone's lost it over The Bells in particular. Like you say, the slow-burn character development is long gone, but I'd made me peace with it, and I'd rather watch a big cinematic set-piece like The Long Night (which had some great moments, like the Dothraki torches going out) or the last episode, rather than the painfully clunky episode 4.

I'll concede that casually forgetting previously important things is pretty awful.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:19 - May 14 with 1869 viewsMick_S

I had a stroll down Bregagh Road last month (dark hedges) and it was full of tourists dressed in robes with pretend swords.

Poll: Should Seann and Katya stay on Strictly Come Dancing?

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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:23 - May 14 with 1855 viewsFDC

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:13 - May 14 by Orthodox_Hoop

As if I'd written it myself mate. One thing I'd add: the treatment of Ghost was unforgivable. Justice for Ghost!


Ha yes that was truly bizarre. Apparently because of the CGI budget it would have cost to have Jon give Ghost a cuddle?! But he then went on a dragon ride with his aunt-girlfriend for no apparent reason, presumably costing more than the whole of the first season put together?

If GRRM was still writing this you'd assume that Jon separating from his dire wolf would signal big trouble in the final episode, but I guess it won't end up that way.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:27 - May 14 with 1842 viewsrobith

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:18 - May 14 by FDC

Have to admit some of those made me chuckle.

I guess my point is just that, yeah, it's been like this for a good few seasons (my wife threatened to divorce me during season 7 for moaning about the time it should take to travel any given distance in Westeros), so I'm surprised at how everyone's lost it over The Bells in particular. Like you say, the slow-burn character development is long gone, but I'd made me peace with it, and I'd rather watch a big cinematic set-piece like The Long Night (which had some great moments, like the Dothraki torches going out) or the last episode, rather than the painfully clunky episode 4.

I'll concede that casually forgetting previously important things is pretty awful.


So I think 5 and 6 were deffo lower quality (6 was better than 5), but still had some nice character beats and moments.

Seven was dreadful, but I put that down to trying to get pieces in place for the finale, but now we're here I feel like we're still scrabbling across the board.

But this year I think is a cumulative effect rather than just this episode:



I think The Long Night was thrilling, but once it was over it left a lot of questions. Then in episode 4 they weren't answered and loads of dumb stuff happened and now there's this violent about face I think it's the total effect of that all together.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:32 - May 14 with 1825 viewsrobith

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:23 - May 14 by FDC

Ha yes that was truly bizarre. Apparently because of the CGI budget it would have cost to have Jon give Ghost a cuddle?! But he then went on a dragon ride with his aunt-girlfriend for no apparent reason, presumably costing more than the whole of the first season put together?

If GRRM was still writing this you'd assume that Jon separating from his dire wolf would signal big trouble in the final episode, but I guess it won't end up that way.


I love that all the direwolves names end up reflecting the story

Robb - Grey Wind - fast; he dies first

Sansa - Lady - Sansa dreams of being a high born lady but her wolf is killed in a court intrigue where someone lies, and it turns out to be not what she imagined. Foreshadows her whole plot

Arya - Nymeria - named after a warrior princess who conquered Westeros

Jon - Ghost - he comes back from the dead

Bran - Summer - he defeats the Others and the long winter

Rickon - Shaggydog - a shaggydog tale is a meandering story that doesn't go anywhere
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:32 - May 14 with 1824 viewsFDC

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:27 - May 14 by robith

So I think 5 and 6 were deffo lower quality (6 was better than 5), but still had some nice character beats and moments.

Seven was dreadful, but I put that down to trying to get pieces in place for the finale, but now we're here I feel like we're still scrabbling across the board.

But this year I think is a cumulative effect rather than just this episode:



I think The Long Night was thrilling, but once it was over it left a lot of questions. Then in episode 4 they weren't answered and loads of dumb stuff happened and now there's this violent about face I think it's the total effect of that all together.


I don't want to know about the spoilers for the last episode, but I am rather confused by how they are going to wrap it all up. I had assumed the battle at Kings Landing would be done and dusted, with some aftermath in this episode, perhaps even a fight between Dany and Jon, with the final episode tying up loose ends. There's an awful lot left unresolved at this point, and going from what you've said, the potential for it being a massive let down is huge...
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:33 - May 14 with 1817 viewsrobith

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:19 - May 14 by Mick_S

I had a stroll down Bregagh Road last month (dark hedges) and it was full of tourists dressed in robes with pretend swords.


I find it so funny, my mates and I did our own Game of Thrones tour of Northern Ireland when the show was in like season 3? Dark Hedges, everywhere else was totally deserted, people thought we were weirdos for even coming to visit. It's like a proper industry now
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:38 - May 14 with 1799 viewsMick_S

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:33 - May 14 by robith

I find it so funny, my mates and I did our own Game of Thrones tour of Northern Ireland when the show was in like season 3? Dark Hedges, everywhere else was totally deserted, people thought we were weirdos for even coming to visit. It's like a proper industry now


That's right - we were there a few years back and apart from a German bloke with a drone, that was it. Can't drive down the road now as there is a conveniently placed car park that charges at the top of the street.

Poll: Should Seann and Katya stay on Strictly Come Dancing?

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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:39 - May 14 with 1791 viewsrobith

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:32 - May 14 by FDC

I don't want to know about the spoilers for the last episode, but I am rather confused by how they are going to wrap it all up. I had assumed the battle at Kings Landing would be done and dusted, with some aftermath in this episode, perhaps even a fight between Dany and Jon, with the final episode tying up loose ends. There's an awful lot left unresolved at this point, and going from what you've said, the potential for it being a massive let down is huge...


I naturally wouldn't say, and I don't know if they're true. Regardless, we've got one hour and 15 minutes of story telling left and near enough nothing is resolved
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:45 - May 14 with 1771 viewsOrthodox_Hoop

In interviews the stars of the show have said the end will be 'disappointing'. At first I thought they were just joking due to not being allowed to talk about it, but now it seems they were telling the truth!
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:46 - May 14 with 1769 viewspaulparker

Apart from breaking bad & the wire every single decent tv series has been rushed in the last season and finished with crap endings
Sopranos
Viking’s
GOT
Lost
Boardwalk empire
SOA
Line of duty

It’s like the creators go so far then run out of ideas or didn’t have an ending in mind when they started the show

“I wipe my ass with your feelings.” (Tony Soprano )

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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:52 - May 14 with 1743 viewsrobith

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:46 - May 14 by paulparker

Apart from breaking bad & the wire every single decent tv series has been rushed in the last season and finished with crap endings
Sopranos
Viking’s
GOT
Lost
Boardwalk empire
SOA
Line of duty

It’s like the creators go so far then run out of ideas or didn’t have an ending in mind when they started the show


even the final season of the wire was pretty disappointing cos Ed Burns, the ex cop who drove the show's realism, left to make Generation Kill, allowing David Simon an unfettered platform to take pots at his former employers

EDIT: Breaking Bad was one of the few shows to get better as it went. The first 3 season were a kind of fun rollercoaster by then 4&5 just went up a whole other level
[Post edited 14 May 15:56]
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 16:13 - May 14 with 1681 viewstraininvain

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 15:46 - May 14 by paulparker

Apart from breaking bad & the wire every single decent tv series has been rushed in the last season and finished with crap endings
Sopranos
Viking’s
GOT
Lost
Boardwalk empire
SOA
Line of duty

It’s like the creators go so far then run out of ideas or didn’t have an ending in mind when they started the show


The ending of the Sopranos sh1ts all over the ending of the Wire with the fake serial killer story and Omar jumping out of windows like Spiderman.

Hate it or love it, the Sopranos ending is still talked about today- did he die or was it just cut to black for the benefit of the viewers.

GOT is suffering from reducing the number of episodes in the last couple of seasons. It all feels too rushed.
[Post edited 14 May 16:13]
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 16:14 - May 14 with 1671 viewsrobith

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 16:13 - May 14 by traininvain

The ending of the Sopranos sh1ts all over the ending of the Wire with the fake serial killer story and Omar jumping out of windows like Spiderman.

Hate it or love it, the Sopranos ending is still talked about today- did he die or was it just cut to black for the benefit of the viewers.

GOT is suffering from reducing the number of episodes in the last couple of seasons. It all feels too rushed.
[Post edited 14 May 16:13]


Agreed. IMO the Sporanos ending is absolutely iconic
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 16:23 - May 14 with 1649 viewsspencer

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 16:13 - May 14 by traininvain

The ending of the Sopranos sh1ts all over the ending of the Wire with the fake serial killer story and Omar jumping out of windows like Spiderman.

Hate it or love it, the Sopranos ending is still talked about today- did he die or was it just cut to black for the benefit of the viewers.

GOT is suffering from reducing the number of episodes in the last couple of seasons. It all feels too rushed.
[Post edited 14 May 16:13]


Have to agree with that. Sopranos was my all time fav show....Did have quite a few episodes mind...but the ending was very good.

I like GOT, not a massive fan, but thought last episode was ok actually...

The one that really annoyed me was Line Of Duty. Big fan...but very underwhelmed at the end of Season 5...

Some times less is more.... Fawlty Towers springs to mind ...or ...
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 16:24 - May 14 with 1649 viewsOrthodox_Hoop

I think my biggest gripe with this season is that it has completely ruined the re-watchability of the entire show. This season, and specifically this episode and episode 3, was THE climax of the previous 7 seasons - the moment that was supposed to tie it all together. The fact it just forgets about and drops all the previous plot development and foreshadowing actually means that all that cool plot development and foreshadowing for 7 seasons was meaningless. Cheers guys.
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 16:33 - May 14 with 1632 viewsToast_R

I agree with Robith, it's become a rushed mess and undermined the previous seasons.... but I still love it.

GOT nearly finished, just binged Cobra Kai season 2 - Waiting on Homeland next although it's much to poorer for killing off Quinn.
[Post edited 14 May 16:34]
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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 17:12 - May 14 with 1563 views2Thomas2Bowles

The long night was dreadful I thought my TV was on the blink so dark, someone forgot to put a shilling in the meter

Bit shocked by the bells, just carnage for no reason, hero to villain.

London stabbings continue at Loftus Road where a large knife was cowardly used in a back stabbing.
Poll: What will the result of the GE be

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Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 17:37 - May 14 with 1533 viewsA40Bosh

Game of Thones (with spoilers) on 17:12 - May 14 by 2Thomas2Bowles

The long night was dreadful I thought my TV was on the blink so dark, someone forgot to put a shilling in the meter

Bit shocked by the bells, just carnage for no reason, hero to villain.


"The long night was dreadful I thought my TV was on the blink so dark, someone forgot to put a shilling in the meter"

I don't have Sky Atlantic on Virgin so I had to fork out for Now TV and try and watch on my phone on the train in the morning after an episode was broadcast. I thought my new iPhone was knackered until my eldest told me she had the same problem and she was at home and sent it to Chrome Cast on our big tele. Shocking to try and watch.

Have to say that I agree with all the points above. It took me a few years to get in to GOT and then watched it and caught up before Season 6 started.

The Bells was ridiculous. Really bad now I reflect on it. Dany turning that quickly either as a result of being rejected by her lover/nephew or perhaps realising that once word got out she had a rival to the throne she needed to act quick and assert her authority was pretty lame.

Poll: With no leg room, knees killing me, do I just go now or stay for the 2nd half o?

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