| Leistner for Barbet 22:03 - Aug 21 with 11429 views | Hunterhoop |
An absolute must. Shambles of a performance from Barbet. The pen was rank stupidity. That’s now 3 goals in 3 games he’s been at fault for.
But that’s the obvious. Where was the great ball player? Lots of long diagonals a la Lynch. Where was he for their free header for the third? How many times was he beaten to the ball by their forward?
On current showing he’s neither quick, nor strong, nor good in the air, nor good at positioning, nor great at tackling. He’s competent on the ball but no more.
We will continue to concede 2+ a game with him and Hall. For all his faults, Leistner gets himself in the way and defends. We desperately need to be able to defend. On the ball we looked fine today and it wasn’t Barbet orchestrating things.
If Warburton is operating a meritocracy, Barber spends a few games on the bench. |  | | |  |
| Leistner for Barbet on 09:52 - Aug 22 with 1552 views | Pommyhoop |
| Leistner for Barbet on 09:28 - Aug 22 by westberksr |
However elegant Barbet looks on the ball he needs to defend first and foremost. As others have pointed out he already has a collection of assists to the opposition that are worryingly high.
Leinster may be slower but his defending is head and shoulders above Barbet's on the displays so far. Angel's shitte throw would have been cleared in some fashion, he would most likely not dived in like a centre forward tackling for the pen past night & there is every chance the free header would have be nullified too.
regarding the team shape and distribution lets not forget that last year we had full backs that were either not as comfortable on the ball (Furlong/ Bidwell) another center back (Lynch) who was as slow and a liability. With the current line up he has potentially better ball players around him so that responsibility can be shared. With a young and lightweight midfield (bar Cameron) another steady head wouldn't be a bad idea either.
I'm biased; as a CB of over 40 years i save my arsing around and silly stuff to 5 a side but when its full matches we are there to defend first; talk, organise and lead. After a keeper, a CB cock up is usually the most expensive. Eradicate the errors first and then build from there; Barbet is getting towards his being hooked for the sake of the good work going on elsewhere.
effectively starting every game a goal down is bloody hard work |
Yup, agree with this and fromFars post..
edit sorry RblockPrior's post
[Post edited 22 Aug 2019 9:53]
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| Leistner for Barbet on 10:00 - Aug 22 with 1526 views | EastR |
westberksr:
"Barbet is getting towards his being hooked for the sake of the good work going on elsewhere."
Completely. And Warburton will act sooner than later as he appears to prefer relatively earlier interventions when dealing with emerging problems |  |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 10:00 - Aug 22 with 1526 views | simmo |
I'm not quite in the 'get Barbet the fck out the team' stage, yet, but he's been a penalty machine and also played his part in that comedy goal in Bristol. So far he's been found very lacking defensively and even did the Lynch press and get turned trick last night which was a horrible flashback.
Can see the value in Leistner coming in to just do some proper bastard defending, but I'm not keen on us changing things too much so soon, think we need to persevere with our preferred way of playing and reassess after 10 or so games.
I hope though that with all the fanfare and being Warburtons kind of CB, that he's not above criticism and potentially being dropped. You couldn't imagine that if it was Manning playing this way with a fit Wallace behind him, that he wouldn't be getting swapped out ASAP. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 10:09 - Aug 22 with 1496 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Leistner for Barbet on 22:57 - Aug 21 by DannytheR |
Don't agree. Barbet has made a couple of absolute fk ups (you just knew what he was going to do in the penalty box tonight) but our entire system is based around a high line and centre backs with pace and decent ability on the ball. All of that goes down the swanny with Leistner.
I have no problem with Leistner, who always seems a good honest pro, but we do have short memories sometimes - he was all over the place much of last season, made plenty of mistakes himself, and is so zimmer-frame-slow everything has to be built around him. We might as well bring Clint Hil back (I'm actually surprised no-one has suggested this yet.)
If we're going to single any players out as liabilities - which would be unfair for an entirely new team of kids, loans and free transfers a few weeks into the season - then Cameron cost us the first goal and the first half in general, poor old Scowen is struggling every game, and our shiny Premiership under-12s need to man up quick sharp. |
Cameron was playing very well until he tweaked his hamstring chasing back for the first goal, you can hardly constitute that as costing us the first goal; Manning's over hit corner (99/100 times that would have been a bad corner and everyone would have moved on from it) Smith's error in the chase back, and finally Geoff pulling up short injured. The fact that the posters on here have rated five Swansea players higher than Eze who,IMO, was the best footballer on the park by a distance, shows what a good side we were up against last night and the comments afterwards by their manager about what a good side we are and we will become more difficult to beat as the season goes on. This squad is comprised of nearly all new players; freebies, loanees & kids to boot and that will take a few months to iron out the kinks. I am enjoying going to games now like I haven't for many seasons now and I understand that this isn't all going to come right from the get go. We are stuck with slow central defenders not because Virgil VanDyke and Harry Maguire turned us down but because we can't spend any money and that's why we have Barbet on a free. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 10:11 - Aug 22 with 1491 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Leistner for Barbet on 08:54 - Aug 22 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I’d stick not twist.
Leistner is great but
A) is Probably pissed off
B) would not contribute to the impressive distribution from defence as well.
We have a consistent system for the first time in ages! The immense Stoke Barbet was only four games ago. |
Yeah but what about the Huddersfield - Bristol City - Swansea Barbet? The guy is a liability on his current form. Cost us the game last night. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 10:11 - Aug 22 with 1488 views | Pommyhoop |
Like RBlock said . Its not a case of witch-hunting or scapegoating.
It is more a case for the stick (Barbet for defending like a c@nt) and carrot (for Toni for obvious reasons) | |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 10:22 - Aug 22 with 1466 views | EastR |
| Leistner for Barbet on 10:00 - Aug 22 by simmo |
I'm not quite in the 'get Barbet the fck out the team' stage, yet, but he's been a penalty machine and also played his part in that comedy goal in Bristol. So far he's been found very lacking defensively and even did the Lynch press and get turned trick last night which was a horrible flashback.
Can see the value in Leistner coming in to just do some proper bastard defending, but I'm not keen on us changing things too much so soon, think we need to persevere with our preferred way of playing and reassess after 10 or so games.
I hope though that with all the fanfare and being Warburtons kind of CB, that he's not above criticism and potentially being dropped. You couldn't imagine that if it was Manning playing this way with a fit Wallace behind him, that he wouldn't be getting swapped out ASAP. |
if the mistakes continue as they have, and poor results pile up as a consequence, there's no way Warburton will wait 10 games before making changes (ask Angel when you see him in SA Rd). Its no use playing good stuff further forward if your defenders are giving gifts at the other end | |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 10:36 - Aug 22 with 1440 views | BostonR |
We need to be more clinical with our chances when they come. At 1-1 I could only see one winner. All three of their goals were given away cheaply but when they scored the pen I still thought this new team would get a goal or two.
It's early day's and on another night with a better ref (blatant handball) we win that game. I can see us hammering someone shortly. |  | | |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 10:56 - Aug 22 with 1408 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Leistner for Barbet on 10:00 - Aug 22 by simmo |
I'm not quite in the 'get Barbet the fck out the team' stage, yet, but he's been a penalty machine and also played his part in that comedy goal in Bristol. So far he's been found very lacking defensively and even did the Lynch press and get turned trick last night which was a horrible flashback.
Can see the value in Leistner coming in to just do some proper bastard defending, but I'm not keen on us changing things too much so soon, think we need to persevere with our preferred way of playing and reassess after 10 or so games.
I hope though that with all the fanfare and being Warburtons kind of CB, that he's not above criticism and potentially being dropped. You couldn't imagine that if it was Manning playing this way with a fit Wallace behind him, that he wouldn't be getting swapped out ASAP. |
Very good summation, Simmo. |  |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 11:30 - Aug 22 with 1362 views | LythamR |
Despite the errors i think its a bit early to be discarding Barbet, particularly if we are talking about replacing him with players as Right footed and one footed as Hall and Leistner
I would like to see Warburton hold his nerve for a few more games at least |  | | |
| Leistner for Barbet on 11:48 - Aug 22 with 1330 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
| Leistner for Barbet on 11:30 - Aug 22 by LythamR |
Despite the errors i think its a bit early to be discarding Barbet, particularly if we are talking about replacing him with players as Right footed and one footed as Hall and Leistner
I would like to see Warburton hold his nerve for a few more games at least |
Agreed. Leistner would be a liability in Warburton's system. Obviously Barbet's spell of giving freebies cannot go on indefinitely but Leistner isn't the answer.
There are some real kneejerkers on this board. | | | |
| Leistner for Barbet on 11:51 - Aug 22 with 1311 views | timcocking |
Let's all remind ourselves we've only played a couple of games. The centre backs are absolutely pivotal for Warburton's philosophy, are they not? If he swaps Barbet for Leistner, he's abandoning the plan that has seen us turnaround literally dozens of players in the last couple of months. To tear everything up within a couple of games...sweet Jesus please don't let that happen again. Every bloody year. Paul Furlong was the worst striker you could find for quite a while let's not forget. Very harsh to judge a player so negatively after such a minuscule sample size, it can take players a while to settle, especially in a completely new team and chaotic environment like QPR.
Patience would be my suggestion. It certainly won't help our players to go into meltdown. |  | | |
| Leistner for Barbet on 11:55 - Aug 22 with 1313 views | Pommyhoop |
I honestly have not seen anyone go into meltdown or call for any plan to be chucked out with any bathwater.
Jaysus Christ | |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 12:04 - Aug 22 with 1296 views | derbyhoop |
Have we reached "spot the scapegoat(s)" after 4 League games?
So far we've got Barbet and Scowen as primary contenders.
And various options that have hardly played this season as the saviours. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 12:16 - Aug 22 with 1283 views | flynnbo |
| Leistner for Barbet on 12:04 - Aug 22 by derbyhoop |
Have we reached "spot the scapegoat(s)" after 4 League games?
So far we've got Barbet and Scowen as primary contenders.
And various options that have hardly played this season as the saviours. |
Totally agree with this. They're virtually a brand new team and bought on a shoestring. Give them all some time. |  | | |
| Leistner for Barbet on 12:18 - Aug 22 with 1282 views | Hunterhoop |
I don’t think there’s any scapegoating. It’s reasoned opinion and analysis, and others disagree; that’s fine.
Equally, I don’t get this narrative that Leistner couldn’t possibly play in this team/shape/style. He’s not terrible on the ball at all. Barbet isn’t that much better! And, at best, he’s marginally quicker. Leistner was a pretty well respected defender last year. And Barbet has done nothing in his career to suggest he’s a Prem centre half, let alone the reincarnation of Rio Ferdinand in his pomp. | | | |
| Leistner for Barbet on 12:28 - Aug 22 with 1250 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Leistner for Barbet on 12:18 - Aug 22 by Hunterhoop |
I don’t think there’s any scapegoating. It’s reasoned opinion and analysis, and others disagree; that’s fine.
Equally, I don’t get this narrative that Leistner couldn’t possibly play in this team/shape/style. He’s not terrible on the ball at all. Barbet isn’t that much better! And, at best, he’s marginally quicker. Leistner was a pretty well respected defender last year. And Barbet has done nothing in his career to suggest he’s a Prem centre half, let alone the reincarnation of Rio Ferdinand in his pomp. |
What if he has the raging hump and fck all match fitness?
Has he played U23 much because he barely had a pre season. |  | | |
| Leistner for Barbet on 12:30 - Aug 22 with 1242 views | DejR_vu |
Why are there people so desperate to accuse others of scapegoating? How do you have a discussion about poor performances and potential solutions without being critical of the player(s) in question? | |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 12:33 - Aug 22 with 1228 views | Mick_S |
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| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 12:33 - Aug 22 with 1227 views | simmo |
| Leistner for Barbet on 12:04 - Aug 22 by derbyhoop |
Have we reached "spot the scapegoat(s)" after 4 League games?
So far we've got Barbet and Scowen as primary contenders.
And various options that have hardly played this season as the saviours. |
Mate, Barbet arguably cost us the game last night and has conceded 2 penalties in our first 4 games (not including his part in the comedy goal in Bristol). People are allowed to highlight that as a problem. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 13:00 - Aug 22 with 1181 views | Maggsinho |
Thought this was interesting.
So, is his rash of penalties bad luck, a sign he's out of form, a sign our system is isolating him? Dunno. |  | | |
| Leistner for Barbet on 13:01 - Aug 22 with 1178 views | Hunterhoop |
| Leistner for Barbet on 12:28 - Aug 22 by BazzaInTheLoft |
What if he has the raging hump and fck all match fitness?
Has he played U23 much because he barely had a pre season. |
If he has the hump this is his chance to prove Warbs wrong and win his place back.
If he is unfit, that’s the fault of the coaches. He’s had a full pre-season in terms of training and came on in most matches. Also played a full 90 in the Cup. Why should he be unfit?
Nothing to suggest he’s thrown any toys out of the peak. And it is the coaching staff’s job to make sure the back up centre half is fit and ready to replace someone if they’re injured or need dropping. | | | |
| Leistner for Barbet on 13:02 - Aug 22 with 1177 views | DannytheR |
I've missed any suggestion that Barbet is Premiership quality.
We can argue about degrees, but for all the mistakes he's made and for which he should be criticised, he *is* clearly better on the ball than Leister and he *is* clearly quicker than Leistner. You can see that he looks for a pass every time Leistner would have gone for the hoof and that we're playing with a high line that would be impossible with Hall and Leistner.
Those things are central to how we're playing now. The jury is very much out on whether it's going to work, but Warburton had barely been in the door before he made a quick move for Barbet and then decided to move Leistner on. He'll have had his reasons for that, and we should surely give him more than the first two weeks of the season to see if the logic holds.
The last time we abandoned a manager's big idea this early in the season was Redknapp deciding he didn't fancy wingbacks after all despite spending the whole summer bringing in players to fit that system. I think we all remember how the rest of that season panned out.
If I've had an issue with Warburton so far it's giving playing time to Cameron, Scowen, Amos and Smith when there are better players more suited to the system waiting on the bench. But even then, we might want to give it to the other side of Bank Holiday weekend before making any big decisions. |  | | |
| Leistner for Barbet on 13:17 - Aug 22 with 1139 views | R_from_afar |
| Leistner for Barbet on 13:01 - Aug 22 by Hunterhoop |
If he has the hump this is his chance to prove Warbs wrong and win his place back.
If he is unfit, that’s the fault of the coaches. He’s had a full pre-season in terms of training and came on in most matches. Also played a full 90 in the Cup. Why should he be unfit?
Nothing to suggest he’s thrown any toys out of the peak. And it is the coaching staff’s job to make sure the back up centre half is fit and ready to replace someone if they’re injured or need dropping. |
Indeed. After all, unless Warbs sells Leistner or exiles him to the stiffs, he is going to end up playing at some point, due to injuries and suspensions, if nothing else. Added to that, he was unquestionably our best defender last season. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Leistner for Barbet on 13:21 - Aug 22 with 1126 views | timcocking |
| Leistner for Barbet on 11:55 - Aug 22 by Pommyhoop |
I honestly have not seen anyone go into meltdown or call for any plan to be chucked out with any bathwater.
Jaysus Christ |
You haven't? Can you read?
If you think removing a (supposed) ball player in the centre and swapping him for a stopper won't have a significant detrimental effect on any teams' ability to retain possession, i don't really know what to say to that, other than i'm guessing you haven't actually played much football in reality? Of course that'd be abandoning plan A, Jesus wept. | | | |
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