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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... 20:20 - Nov 3 with 3177 viewssmegma

Discuss.....
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 21:02 - Nov 3 with 2231 viewsstowmarketrange

I thought he was let down by the var officials badly.How many times did they look at the handball incident?And they still didn’t get it right.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 21:27 - Nov 3 with 2189 viewsNorthernr

Game was annihilated by VAR. Checks must have gone into double figures, still resulting in the wrong decision on more than one occasion. They decided something wasn't a penalty, but the decision up on the screen, then said "actually we'd like another look" and then decided it still wasn't a penalty. They wound that Alli handball appeal backwards and forwards 27 times from four angles for three minutes and still got it wrong.

Absolute fiasco. Again.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 21:46 - Nov 3 with 2141 viewsloftboy

Never a sending off either, bad injury but not caused directly by the tackle.

favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 23:21 - Nov 3 with 2021 viewsbosh67

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 21:46 - Nov 3 by loftboy

Never a sending off either, bad injury but not caused directly by the tackle.


Horrific injury. Very similar to the Eduardo one. But wholly different scenario. Terribly unfortunate but no intent. Not sure how Son gets a red? Not sure that can be upheld?

Wishing Gomes better. Long way back.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2019 23:22]

Never knowingly right.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 23:22 - Nov 3 with 2017 viewsCroydonCaptJack

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 21:27 - Nov 3 by Northernr

Game was annihilated by VAR. Checks must have gone into double figures, still resulting in the wrong decision on more than one occasion. They decided something wasn't a penalty, but the decision up on the screen, then said "actually we'd like another look" and then decided it still wasn't a penalty. They wound that Alli handball appeal backwards and forwards 27 times from four angles for three minutes and still got it wrong.

Absolute fiasco. Again.


This clear and obvious error thing tends to lose credibility after that many looks doesn't it.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 23:29 - Nov 3 with 1999 viewstimcocking

It has always seemed as if the refs aren't themselves footballers. One can study the game indefinitely and learn the rules off by heart, but without a reasonable knowledge of actually playing the game, it's bloody obviously not possible to fully understand the game and thus be a half-decent referee.

They should get rid of the traffic warden/health and safety inspector types and be paying retired lower league footballers to do it. So many skint ex-footballers, i can't believe they can't attract some of them.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 06:44 - Nov 4 with 1904 viewsWatford_Ranger

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 23:21 - Nov 3 by bosh67

Horrific injury. Very similar to the Eduardo one. But wholly different scenario. Terribly unfortunate but no intent. Not sure how Son gets a red? Not sure that can be upheld?

Wishing Gomes better. Long way back.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2019 23:22]


The powers that be came out remarkably quickly to “clarify” why it was a red. Basically trying to nip it in the bud when it was obviously a yellow but they’d get hammered by some people for rescinding it too.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 08:12 - Nov 4 with 1813 viewsNorthernr

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 23:22 - Nov 3 by CroydonCaptJack

This clear and obvious error thing tends to lose credibility after that many looks doesn't it.


They're just tying themselves in absolute knots with it.

As I understood it at the start of the season it was 'clear and obvious' for penalties and stuff like that, but ridiculously granular for offside, and if the ball touches your hand at all then it's either a penalty or the goal is disallowed.

They then came out after a few weeks and said actually, sorry, we've messed up a couple of things that should have been penalties, which then resulted in that absolute nonsense at Brighton last week where they had 14 looks at nothing at all and decided it was a penalty.

Now there's this one which did touch Alli's hand and it was up above his head (I thought it was a penalty even under the old interpretations) but we have 27 goes on it over three minutes and don't give it.

So I don't know where we fcking are now, other than absolutely wrecking most Premier League games I watch.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 08:23 - Nov 4 with 1784 viewsTheChef

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 08:12 - Nov 4 by Northernr

They're just tying themselves in absolute knots with it.

As I understood it at the start of the season it was 'clear and obvious' for penalties and stuff like that, but ridiculously granular for offside, and if the ball touches your hand at all then it's either a penalty or the goal is disallowed.

They then came out after a few weeks and said actually, sorry, we've messed up a couple of things that should have been penalties, which then resulted in that absolute nonsense at Brighton last week where they had 14 looks at nothing at all and decided it was a penalty.

Now there's this one which did touch Alli's hand and it was up above his head (I thought it was a penalty even under the old interpretations) but we have 27 goes on it over three minutes and don't give it.

So I don't know where we fcking are now, other than absolutely wrecking most Premier League games I watch.


I swear they've introduced it just to wind everyone up, and ensured that it's been implemented in the most cack handed way possible.

I dread the day they implement it in the Championship, fortunately for now it's probably too costly.

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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 08:27 - Nov 4 with 1775 viewsPinnerPaul

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 08:12 - Nov 4 by Northernr

They're just tying themselves in absolute knots with it.

As I understood it at the start of the season it was 'clear and obvious' for penalties and stuff like that, but ridiculously granular for offside, and if the ball touches your hand at all then it's either a penalty or the goal is disallowed.

They then came out after a few weeks and said actually, sorry, we've messed up a couple of things that should have been penalties, which then resulted in that absolute nonsense at Brighton last week where they had 14 looks at nothing at all and decided it was a penalty.

Now there's this one which did touch Alli's hand and it was up above his head (I thought it was a penalty even under the old interpretations) but we have 27 goes on it over three minutes and don't give it.

So I don't know where we fcking are now, other than absolutely wrecking most Premier League games I watch.


Can't argue with most of the above - can't say I didn't warn you!

The overall point, as I've said many times before, is that football is chasing the impossible dream:- a game where everyone agrees with every decision - its not going to happen whatever 'improvements' are made to VAR.

Delays to the game, decisions loads of us disagree with are NOT going to go away just by getting the ref to go and look at pitchside monitor(In fact delay will increase that way), nor will showing the crowd an incident 26 times going to improve their mood either.

Every game up and down the land will have decisions that people disagree with, VAR does nothing to change that while adding in an inordinate delay to the proceedings.

Take away all subjective decisions , add a margin of error into the offside decisions, keep GLT and leave it at that.

MOTD have, at last, caught on to another factor in the whole process - that of human beings being erm human. As they pointed out if ref A on the pitch has decision overturned by referee B acting as VAR, what do you think might happen when the roles are reversed next week? Its happening already despite Keown saying 'we're not there yet', but as an example cited by Mark Chapman showed - oh yes we are Martin!

Oh yeah, and the logic that consequence of a challenge determines its legality and punishment is absolute nonsense.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 09:17 - Nov 4 with 1702 viewsAntti_Heinola

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 21:27 - Nov 3 by Northernr

Game was annihilated by VAR. Checks must have gone into double figures, still resulting in the wrong decision on more than one occasion. They decided something wasn't a penalty, but the decision up on the screen, then said "actually we'd like another look" and then decided it still wasn't a penalty. They wound that Alli handball appeal backwards and forwards 27 times from four angles for three minutes and still got it wrong.

Absolute fiasco. Again.


Agree it's a fiasco, but they didn't get it wrong did they? Absolutely wasn't clear it had touched his hand/arm at all. But I hate it. A total waste of time and money and ruins the game for the fans. But who cares about them, right?

Bare bones.

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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 09:18 - Nov 4 with 1693 viewsAntti_Heinola

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 23:29 - Nov 3 by timcocking

It has always seemed as if the refs aren't themselves footballers. One can study the game indefinitely and learn the rules off by heart, but without a reasonable knowledge of actually playing the game, it's bloody obviously not possible to fully understand the game and thus be a half-decent referee.

They should get rid of the traffic warden/health and safety inspector types and be paying retired lower league footballers to do it. So many skint ex-footballers, i can't believe they can't attract some of them.


And yet every week footballers talk on TV and radio as if they're complete idiots.
There is no great solution to this except for everyone to learn to live with the odd bad decision and move on.

Bare bones.

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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 09:20 - Nov 4 with 1688 viewsAntti_Heinola

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 08:27 - Nov 4 by PinnerPaul

Can't argue with most of the above - can't say I didn't warn you!

The overall point, as I've said many times before, is that football is chasing the impossible dream:- a game where everyone agrees with every decision - its not going to happen whatever 'improvements' are made to VAR.

Delays to the game, decisions loads of us disagree with are NOT going to go away just by getting the ref to go and look at pitchside monitor(In fact delay will increase that way), nor will showing the crowd an incident 26 times going to improve their mood either.

Every game up and down the land will have decisions that people disagree with, VAR does nothing to change that while adding in an inordinate delay to the proceedings.

Take away all subjective decisions , add a margin of error into the offside decisions, keep GLT and leave it at that.

MOTD have, at last, caught on to another factor in the whole process - that of human beings being erm human. As they pointed out if ref A on the pitch has decision overturned by referee B acting as VAR, what do you think might happen when the roles are reversed next week? Its happening already despite Keown saying 'we're not there yet', but as an example cited by Mark Chapman showed - oh yes we are Martin!

Oh yeah, and the logic that consequence of a challenge determines its legality and punishment is absolute nonsense.


Spot fkn on.

Bare bones.

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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 09:32 - Nov 4 with 1667 viewsfrancisbowles

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 08:27 - Nov 4 by PinnerPaul

Can't argue with most of the above - can't say I didn't warn you!

The overall point, as I've said many times before, is that football is chasing the impossible dream:- a game where everyone agrees with every decision - its not going to happen whatever 'improvements' are made to VAR.

Delays to the game, decisions loads of us disagree with are NOT going to go away just by getting the ref to go and look at pitchside monitor(In fact delay will increase that way), nor will showing the crowd an incident 26 times going to improve their mood either.

Every game up and down the land will have decisions that people disagree with, VAR does nothing to change that while adding in an inordinate delay to the proceedings.

Take away all subjective decisions , add a margin of error into the offside decisions, keep GLT and leave it at that.

MOTD have, at last, caught on to another factor in the whole process - that of human beings being erm human. As they pointed out if ref A on the pitch has decision overturned by referee B acting as VAR, what do you think might happen when the roles are reversed next week? Its happening already despite Keown saying 'we're not there yet', but as an example cited by Mark Chapman showed - oh yes we are Martin!

Oh yeah, and the logic that consequence of a challenge determines its legality and punishment is absolute nonsense.


With regards to the impossible dream, even in rugby it is not perfect. There were occasions in the RWC where the commentators disagreed with VAR (or whatever they call it), some where the crowd were unhappy with it and a few that the referee should have referred but didn't.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 09:53 - Nov 4 with 1631 viewsLunarJetman

One of the problems seems to be the lack of use by the referee of the pitch side monitor. Having a ref make decisions based on his interpretation of the law is one thing, but having 3 or 4 extra people sitting in front of the monitors thrown into the mix seems to have added extra confusion.

How does a referee (and assistants) keep any authority if he (or they) can be overruled by some faceless officials miles away?

Surely if they just referred decisions to the referee to check at the pitch side monitors, it would make a difference. The referee would then still be fully in charge of the game.

If they also got rid of these ridiculous offside calls as well it would help. Wasn't there a time when decided offside calls by whether there was any daylight between players or not. Surely if their torsos overlap in anyway, they should just be given as onside?



y letting the guys behind the monitors at Stockley Park or wherever they are make decisions you're just adding another subjective
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 11:36 - Nov 4 with 1530 viewsYorkRanger

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 09:17 - Nov 4 by Antti_Heinola

Agree it's a fiasco, but they didn't get it wrong did they? Absolutely wasn't clear it had touched his hand/arm at all. But I hate it. A total waste of time and money and ruins the game for the fans. But who cares about them, right?


Kind of illustrates the point Antti as I thought it did hit his hand and as Clive said ball hitting a raised hand in that situation has always been a penalty. The period of time looking at it was hard to fathom using the clear and obvious principle.

Additionally the injury was clearly terrible but it was never a red card - the suggestion seemed to be that the ref was giving a yellow but VAR overruled to red - complete madness given they had the replay to assess the tackle.

As you say- a fiasco....
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 12:53 - Nov 4 with 1412 viewsThe_Beast1976

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 08:27 - Nov 4 by PinnerPaul

Can't argue with most of the above - can't say I didn't warn you!

The overall point, as I've said many times before, is that football is chasing the impossible dream:- a game where everyone agrees with every decision - its not going to happen whatever 'improvements' are made to VAR.

Delays to the game, decisions loads of us disagree with are NOT going to go away just by getting the ref to go and look at pitchside monitor(In fact delay will increase that way), nor will showing the crowd an incident 26 times going to improve their mood either.

Every game up and down the land will have decisions that people disagree with, VAR does nothing to change that while adding in an inordinate delay to the proceedings.

Take away all subjective decisions , add a margin of error into the offside decisions, keep GLT and leave it at that.

MOTD have, at last, caught on to another factor in the whole process - that of human beings being erm human. As they pointed out if ref A on the pitch has decision overturned by referee B acting as VAR, what do you think might happen when the roles are reversed next week? Its happening already despite Keown saying 'we're not there yet', but as an example cited by Mark Chapman showed - oh yes we are Martin!

Oh yeah, and the logic that consequence of a challenge determines its legality and punishment is absolute nonsense.


"Take away all subjective decisions , add a margin of error into the offside decisions, keep GLT and leave it at that.".

But that would reduce the talking points for the pundits and the drama for the 'fans' sat at home or around the globe watching on TV. Let's remember, the Premiershit actually exists for them. I reckon the powers that be will be loving all the contentious issues VAR is bringing
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 13:00 - Nov 4 with 1400 viewsPinnerPaul

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 11:36 - Nov 4 by YorkRanger

Kind of illustrates the point Antti as I thought it did hit his hand and as Clive said ball hitting a raised hand in that situation has always been a penalty. The period of time looking at it was hard to fathom using the clear and obvious principle.

Additionally the injury was clearly terrible but it was never a red card - the suggestion seemed to be that the ref was giving a yellow but VAR overruled to red - complete madness given they had the replay to assess the tackle.

As you say- a fiasco....


Hate to correct Clive but that statement about when handball should be penalised is incorrect.

The main change to the law this season is that anyone scoring a goal or getting a goal scoring opportunity from the ball hitting their hand/arm however it happens is always penalised for handball even if a complete accident.

That does NOT apply to defenders, where its a whole lot more complicated!
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 13:10 - Nov 4 with 1389 viewsYorkRanger

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 13:00 - Nov 4 by PinnerPaul

Hate to correct Clive but that statement about when handball should be penalised is incorrect.

The main change to the law this season is that anyone scoring a goal or getting a goal scoring opportunity from the ball hitting their hand/arm however it happens is always penalised for handball even if a complete accident.

That does NOT apply to defenders, where its a whole lot more complicated!


Pinner - I'm happy to defer to your more expert knowledge, I'm generally baffled by the whole handball thing.

Out of interest on the basis Ali's arm was in the air above his head and the ball hit it, does that make it a Penalty in your view?
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 13:34 - Nov 4 with 1348 viewsPinnerPaul

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 13:10 - Nov 4 by YorkRanger

Pinner - I'm happy to defer to your more expert knowledge, I'm generally baffled by the whole handball thing.

Out of interest on the basis Ali's arm was in the air above his head and the ball hit it, does that make it a Penalty in your view?


Ordinarily yes, but the PGMOL logic is that arm was only in that position because he was challenging and/or being challenged by the Everton player, therefore not an 'unnatural' position.

Certainly wasn't deliberate. No one appealed, no one saw it, so on that basis alone, in 99% of matches where this happens its not a pen!

Whether Atkinson and VAR were correct or not isn't the point to me. On 'RefChat' I guarantee experienced referees after watching that at their leisure will come on with completely different opinions on it and that's my point - no review system is ever going to change that - its part of the game. Taking 3 minutes and TWENTY SIX replays to review something like that should never be part of the game IMHO.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 13:45 - Nov 4 with 1334 viewsNorthernr

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 13:00 - Nov 4 by PinnerPaul

Hate to correct Clive but that statement about when handball should be penalised is incorrect.

The main change to the law this season is that anyone scoring a goal or getting a goal scoring opportunity from the ball hitting their hand/arm however it happens is always penalised for handball even if a complete accident.

That does NOT apply to defenders, where its a whole lot more complicated!


Corrections happily accepted - I freely admit I'm completely lost with it this season, and it seems to be changing week on week.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 13:55 - Nov 4 with 1314 viewsTheChef

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 12:53 - Nov 4 by The_Beast1976

"Take away all subjective decisions , add a margin of error into the offside decisions, keep GLT and leave it at that.".

But that would reduce the talking points for the pundits and the drama for the 'fans' sat at home or around the globe watching on TV. Let's remember, the Premiershit actually exists for them. I reckon the powers that be will be loving all the contentious issues VAR is bringing


Unfortunately, it's that in a nutshell.

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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 14:20 - Nov 4 with 1269 viewsClive_Anderson

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 13:00 - Nov 4 by PinnerPaul

Hate to correct Clive but that statement about when handball should be penalised is incorrect.

The main change to the law this season is that anyone scoring a goal or getting a goal scoring opportunity from the ball hitting their hand/arm however it happens is always penalised for handball even if a complete accident.

That does NOT apply to defenders, where its a whole lot more complicated!


Why are the rules for handball different for attackers and defenders? Seems crazy.

It's either handball or it isn't.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 14:38 - Nov 4 with 1252 viewsBostonR

I prefer a shite ref any day rather than VAR which is destroying the spectacle. If we are not careful we will lose the soul of the game.
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Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 15:43 - Nov 4 with 1197 viewsPinnerPaul

Another shit ref at Goodison today....... on 14:20 - Nov 4 by Clive_Anderson

Why are the rules for handball different for attackers and defenders? Seems crazy.

It's either handball or it isn't.


I agree. The 'problem', such as it was, meant that applying the 'deliberate' criteria strictly as per the old law meant that attackers could score or gain an advantage to score through accidental handball.

In taking that 'problem' away the IFAB have created another one, whereby as you say, defenders and attackers are now treated differently.
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