| The Labour Party 15:16 - Jan 5 with 24442 views | Pegojack |
I watched the Andrew Marr Show this morning from beginning to end and, as a lifelong Labour Party voter and supporter, I have to say I was moderately encouraged.
The election defeat was about as devastating a kicking as a political party can sustain but, and it's a big but, if the party has learned the lesson and has the good sense to choose Kier Starmer as leader, with maybe Jess Philips or Lisa Tandy as deputy, the next five years could be very interesting.
Dominic Raab did nothing to assuage my opinion that he's an incompetent idiot way out of his depth, and I think he's indicative of the general level of incompetence in Boris's cabinet. I think Starmer's clinical and incisive lawyer's mind will make mincemeat of the Eton windbag and his collection of disfunctional idiots. If they can clear out all vestiges of Corbynism and keep chipping away at Boris as the disaster of five years of unchecked extreme right wing Toryism unfolds, I see a promising future for Labour.
What do you think, chaps and chapesses? Always interested in particular in the balanced opinions of Kerouac, Jango and the Symonds Yat village idiot. |  | | |  |
| The Labour Party on 16:16 - Jan 5 with 8449 views | trefelinjack |
Surely what labour should do is make someone a leader who-
1. Was completely seperate to the previous labour cabinet.
2. Is not from london so the north and wales traditional heartlands can feel they can relate and find aspects in common.
3. Not a staunch remainer or remoaner to embrace the opportunity the country has instead of mourning that we should have stayed.
That starmer is the opposite of all those three points. I feel that appointing starmer will only lead to a tory government for a long long time. |  | | |
| The Labour Party on 16:38 - Jan 5 with 8397 views | leighton1318 |
You put your finger on the big if ...
I suspect Starmer might well be the choice of the parliamentary party. But isn’t the issue that the control sits with the Momentum brigade, which is likely to crank the machine up for RLB as the designated successor. The Left and their cheerleaders genuinely think the manifesto was a great one and that Jezza was hard done by.
Personally I think Long-Bailey would scarcely land a single punch on the appalling Johnson, and the best hope for Labour is that she comes in, is manifestly rubbish for two or so years, and, following belated realisation, a further contest is precipitated in time enough to put a more credible leadership and manifesto in place for 2024. It may well take two parliaments to turn it round: Kinnock couldn’t do it in that time, and on the conservative side, they had to blunder through Hague (wrong time), IDS (just awful), Howard (not all bad but was never going to win) before Cameron, and even then he was more or less gifted his election through Brown’s inadequacies.
It’s going to be tough. | | | |
| The Labour Party on 16:43 - Jan 5 with 8379 views | WarwickHunt |
| The Labour Party on 16:16 - Jan 5 by trefelinjack |
Surely what labour should do is make someone a leader who-
1. Was completely seperate to the previous labour cabinet.
2. Is not from london so the north and wales traditional heartlands can feel they can relate and find aspects in common.
3. Not a staunch remainer or remoaner to embrace the opportunity the country has instead of mourning that we should have stayed.
That starmer is the opposite of all those three points. I feel that appointing starmer will only lead to a tory government for a long long time. |
Labour should appoint a heavyweight who can forensically destroy Johnson’s bullshit and bluster in Parliament.
That person is Starmer. He also has the moral and intellectual high ground on the impending Brexit clusterfûck.
It really doesn’t matter where he comes from. The current PM is an Eton-educated Londoner in case you hadn’t noticed.
Long Bailey as leader is another disaster waiting to happen and don’t get me started on Ian Fûcking Lavery.
Edit: what Labour should do and will do depends on whether the Momentum stranglehold can be removed. Agree with the above post, I’m not convinced there won’t be yet another massive own goal. [Post edited 5 Jan 2020 17:12]
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| The Labour Party on 16:45 - Jan 5 with 8369 views | Pegojack |
1. I take your point, but if you accept that many of the best people were in the shadow cabinet (Abbott and Burgon excepted), what's the point of excluding them to make a point?
2. This makes no sense to me. Who the feck cares where someone comes from? It's just like saying the next leader should be a woman. Why? I don't care if they are male or female, come from Camden, Carmarthen or Cambuslang, have blonde hair, dark hair or no hair: I just want the best person for the job.
3. I think Brexit is going to be an unmitigated disaster. Sure, it'll take two or three years to unfold, but there is no "great opportunity" to embrace, just a shower of Tory shyte, but we'll see. Maybe I'm wrong! | | | |
| The Labour Party on 16:59 - Jan 5 with 8317 views | trefelinjack |
1. My point is, after 10 years of austerity, looking after the rich etc .. the public have just given the tories a 60+ majority in government. If that doesnt tell you how bad the opposition have been i dont know what will.
2. Just a question " would you rather a swansea born person giving their all for this club than someone with no connection at all with abit more ability?" Back to politics, i think people in their heartlands feel that the labour london elite leaders have ignored their heartlands and could support a local in charge. I may be wrong.
3. Whether you think it is going to be a disaster is irrelevent. Its happening. I think people in the labour heartlands are fed up with all the delay. Labour need someone who excepts the decision and is not looking to still reverse the decision. They need a brexiteer, or an excepter, not a remoaner | | | |
| The Labour Party on 17:04 - Jan 5 with 8298 views | WarwickHunt |
| The Labour Party on 16:59 - Jan 5 by trefelinjack |
1. My point is, after 10 years of austerity, looking after the rich etc .. the public have just given the tories a 60+ majority in government. If that doesnt tell you how bad the opposition have been i dont know what will.
2. Just a question " would you rather a swansea born person giving their all for this club than someone with no connection at all with abit more ability?" Back to politics, i think people in their heartlands feel that the labour london elite leaders have ignored their heartlands and could support a local in charge. I may be wrong.
3. Whether you think it is going to be a disaster is irrelevent. Its happening. I think people in the labour heartlands are fed up with all the delay. Labour need someone who excepts the decision and is not looking to still reverse the decision. They need a brexiteer, or an excepter, not a remoaner |
*accept/accepter*
The opposition is appalling but you want more of the same just with a Northern accent.
Brexit is happening, probably with a no deal and you want supine acceptance?
Bonkers. | | | |
| The Labour Party on 17:10 - Jan 5 with 8278 views | BrynCartwright |
I agree with everything Pego say. I will have a word with Tonia when I see her in the boozer next. |  |
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| The Labour Party on 17:19 - Jan 5 with 8255 views | trefelinjack |
| The Labour Party on 17:04 - Jan 5 by WarwickHunt |
*accept/accepter*
The opposition is appalling but you want more of the same just with a Northern accent.
Brexit is happening, probably with a no deal and you want supine acceptance?
Bonkers. |
With starmer you are going to get 5 years " how bad brexit was" do you honestly think that will go down well with leave voting traditionally labour seats. Obviously no. You need someone who relates to them and argue that brexit can be done better, not that brexit shouldnt take place | | | |
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| The Labour Party on 17:22 - Jan 5 with 8244 views | WarwickHunt |
| The Labour Party on 17:19 - Jan 5 by trefelinjack |
With starmer you are going to get 5 years " how bad brexit was" do you honestly think that will go down well with leave voting traditionally labour seats. Obviously no. You need someone who relates to them and argue that brexit can be done better, not that brexit shouldnt take place |
And just how the fûck is a better Brexit going to be done after we’ve left the EU?
Christ on a fûcking bike. | | | |
| The Labour Party on 17:25 - Jan 5 with 8234 views | Highjack |
It’ll be Rebecca Wrong-Daily because she’s the momentum option. |  |
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| The Labour Party on 17:42 - Jan 5 with 8199 views | Best_loser |
| The Labour Party on 17:25 - Jan 5 by Highjack |
It’ll be Rebecca Wrong-Daily because she’s the momentum option. |
Momentum might concede starmer is the best chance of winning the next election
Then stab him in the back and put in one of their own when he is PM
That's how they operate |  | | |
| The Labour Party on 17:44 - Jan 5 with 8188 views | Highjack |
| The Labour Party on 16:43 - Jan 5 by WarwickHunt |
Labour should appoint a heavyweight who can forensically destroy Johnson’s bullshit and bluster in Parliament.
That person is Starmer. He also has the moral and intellectual high ground on the impending Brexit clusterfûck.
It really doesn’t matter where he comes from. The current PM is an Eton-educated Londoner in case you hadn’t noticed.
Long Bailey as leader is another disaster waiting to happen and don’t get me started on Ian Fûcking Lavery.
Edit: what Labour should do and will do depends on whether the Momentum stranglehold can be removed. Agree with the above post, I’m not convinced there won’t be yet another massive own goal. [Post edited 5 Jan 2020 17:12]
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Sir Keir would be interesting in the sense that he might struggle to appeal to many traditional labour voters, but he would certainly appeal to a lot of Tory voters. Corbyn’s big problem apart from being more useless than Jake Bidwell of course was that he was preaching to the converted and had no chance of attracting Tory votes, which any labour leader must do.
I think Sir Keir may do that. | |
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| The Labour Party on 17:54 - Jan 5 with 8165 views | WarwickHunt |
| The Labour Party on 17:44 - Jan 5 by Highjack |
Sir Keir would be interesting in the sense that he might struggle to appeal to many traditional labour voters, but he would certainly appeal to a lot of Tory voters. Corbyn’s big problem apart from being more useless than Jake Bidwell of course was that he was preaching to the converted and had no chance of attracting Tory votes, which any labour leader must do.
I think Sir Keir may do that. |
Corbyn’s problem ( apart from being a bit dim and stuck in the student politics of 1970) was that he couldn’t attract Labour votes, let alone Tory ones. | | | |
| The Labour Party on 18:16 - Jan 5 with 8130 views | Highjack |
| The Labour Party on 17:54 - Jan 5 by WarwickHunt |
Corbyn’s problem ( apart from being a bit dim and stuck in the student politics of 1970) was that he couldn’t attract Labour votes, let alone Tory ones. |
Well student politics and being a bit dim were obviously very popular inside London. Also confirming his gender pronouns on Twitter probably gave him an extra few thousand votes. Putney would have been a great success story on any other election night. But they’re long past caring about anything outside the M25. | |
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| The Labour Party on 18:25 - Jan 5 with 8119 views | majorraglan |
To be successful, a Labour Leader needs to appeal to the centre ground. From a Labour Party perspective, the last election was a disaster. Corbyn very unpopular, Farage declines to stand against sitting Tory MP’s and splits the Labour vote in key constituencies, Swinson blindsided and didn’t see Farage standing aside, SNP pro Scotland agenda also not seeing the bigger picture and Boris romps at a canter.
Labour need a sharp operator who is extremely quick witted and able to think on his/her feet, I would have thought Starmer, a barrister and ex DPP could be the type of person to do that. | | | |
| The Labour Party on 18:29 - Jan 5 with 8108 views | trefelinjack |
| The Labour Party on 17:22 - Jan 5 by WarwickHunt |
And just how the fûck is a better Brexit going to be done after we’ve left the EU?
Christ on a fûcking bike. |
You are reminding me of a complete remoaner. WE ARE LEAVING THE EU. The discussion should be how we can build trade relations with other countries not why did we leave.
We can either just sit and moan all day long about if brexit was a good thing like what you are doing or we can make best of it.
Christ on a brexit bike | | | |
| The Labour Party on 18:31 - Jan 5 with 8100 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Labour Party on 16:16 - Jan 5 by trefelinjack |
Surely what labour should do is make someone a leader who-
1. Was completely seperate to the previous labour cabinet.
2. Is not from london so the north and wales traditional heartlands can feel they can relate and find aspects in common.
3. Not a staunch remainer or remoaner to embrace the opportunity the country has instead of mourning that we should have stayed.
That starmer is the opposite of all those three points. I feel that appointing starmer will only lead to a tory government for a long long time. |
If the traditional Labour heartlands honestly believe that an old Etonian is more relatable and has more in common with them than someone whose Mum was a nurse and Dad was a toolmaker, they’re well beyond any sense of help. | | | |
| The Labour Party on 18:32 - Jan 5 with 8096 views | DJack |
| The Labour Party on 18:29 - Jan 5 by trefelinjack |
You are reminding me of a complete remoaner. WE ARE LEAVING THE EU. The discussion should be how we can build trade relations with other countries not why did we leave.
We can either just sit and moan all day long about if brexit was a good thing like what you are doing or we can make best of it.
Christ on a brexit bike |
Whilst the Tories are in power WE CANT MAKE THE BEST OF IT no matter what you say. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| The Labour Party on 18:35 - Jan 5 with 8091 views | Flashberryjack |
Labour have learned f*ck all from the election humiliation, and after reading the posts on this thread, neither have their supporters. |  |
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| The Labour Party on 18:43 - Jan 5 with 8073 views | monmouth |
It's obviously got to be Starmer or Phillips, but they'll probably shoot themselves in the foot.
Brexit is a non issue now ffs. The Tories have the majority to do it. If they don't do it that's for them. It is pointless the opposition engaging with that unless it comes to no deal or to laugh at and draw attention to their pathetic attempts to negotiate a deal. There is no 'remain or remoaner' argument anymore, there is just real economic consequence of whatever Johnson's incompetents do.
The remain vs leave crap will only be used by brexshitters to try and distract from the consequences of their stupidity. |  |
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| The Labour Party on 18:48 - Jan 5 with 8066 views | Best_loser |
| The Labour Party on 18:35 - Jan 5 by Flashberryjack |
Labour have learned f*ck all from the election humiliation, and after reading the posts on this thread, neither have their supporters. |
Says the person who said the labour manifesto was an election winner | | | |
| The Labour Party on 18:51 - Jan 5 with 8050 views | Flashberryjack |
| The Labour Party on 18:48 - Jan 5 by Best_loser |
Says the person who said the labour manifesto was an election winner |
It was a winning manifesto.......for the conservative party. | |
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| The Labour Party on 19:00 - Jan 5 with 8025 views | majorraglan |
| The Labour Party on 18:43 - Jan 5 by monmouth |
It's obviously got to be Starmer or Phillips, but they'll probably shoot themselves in the foot.
Brexit is a non issue now ffs. The Tories have the majority to do it. If they don't do it that's for them. It is pointless the opposition engaging with that unless it comes to no deal or to laugh at and draw attention to their pathetic attempts to negotiate a deal. There is no 'remain or remoaner' argument anymore, there is just real economic consequence of whatever Johnson's incompetents do.
The remain vs leave crap will only be used by brexshitters to try and distract from the consequences of their stupidity. |
Totally agree with your point about Brexit, Boris campaigned on the slogan “Lets get Brexit done” and he won, so let’s get it sorted.
I really hope they can deliver a great deal, because our future prosperity depends on the Conservative Party delivering, if it becomes a complete disaster then Labour and the other parties have to make sure Boris and his chums “Own it”. Not sure a Long Bailey type would be able to do that. | | | |
| The Labour Party on 19:01 - Jan 5 with 8024 views | Highjack |
| The Labour Party on 18:35 - Jan 5 by Flashberryjack |
Labour have learned f*ck all from the election humiliation, and after reading the posts on this thread, neither have their supporters. |
It certainly looks that way. | |
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| The Labour Party on 19:13 - Jan 5 with 8001 views | Flashberryjack |
| The Labour Party on 18:43 - Jan 5 by monmouth |
It's obviously got to be Starmer or Phillips, but they'll probably shoot themselves in the foot.
Brexit is a non issue now ffs. The Tories have the majority to do it. If they don't do it that's for them. It is pointless the opposition engaging with that unless it comes to no deal or to laugh at and draw attention to their pathetic attempts to negotiate a deal. There is no 'remain or remoaner' argument anymore, there is just real economic consequence of whatever Johnson's incompetents do.
The remain vs leave crap will only be used by brexshitters to try and distract from the consequences of their stupidity. |
"brexshitters"
As I said, learned absolutely f*ck all...still a party of childish name callers. | |
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