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An Australian professor of Data Analytics from Griffith University who predicted Trump’s first win, the Australian Federal Election(when all the polls said the opposite) and Brexit has called it - Trump will be re-elected for another 4 years. You heard it here first.
I guess it depends on what world/country you want to live in. In the US last week, Trump by his actions and those of an extreme element of his supporters managed to unite democrats and some republicans. If we’d just left him on Twitter to do his “thing” and let Biden just proceed as president, I think Trumpism would be over and you’d have less of a polarised country. Now after what’s happened, Trump will fan the flames and play the victim. Trumpism will live on. I’m sure they’ll be protests and maybe worse. Those who voted for him will become more entrenched in their views. The country will be more divided then ever. Sometimes I think it’s best to look to what’s best in the long term for the people and country, rather than this process which has no hope of getting through senate anyway.
Trumpism doesn't just go away when the clock runs out on his presidency. Trump divided the country by convincing half of them that the other half cheated. The only way the country can be less divided is when the real cheaters come out and admit that there was no voter fraud, there was no Dominion vote switching and there's nothing wrong with voting by mail (apart from it taking too long because we crippled the postal service).
He's been saying the election is rigged since 2016 and with all of his enablers he's whipped his base up into such a frenzy that they are now out of control. Trump has 100% split the US into two and he achieved that before the election. Now he's hell bent on burning the place down on his way out, impeachment or no impeachment. This isn't a surprise, people ITK have been saying he'd do this since before he won, hell he even told us himself...
Not sure why the shock, we had a democratic vote here, 2016 I think, where the side that lost (48%) were adamant that they’d beaten the winning side (52%) and maintained that stance for three and a half years!
Mind blowing really and proof that there’s lunatics on both sides of the asylum.
You can’t be for real Steve? This kind of victim narrative is exactly the same as what the Trump lot indulge in.
Yeah some remainers are annoying, but that’s the nature of the democracy you keep bringing up! In regards to Brexit it’s been delivered and those who promised it have a 80 seat majority and won two elections. Brexit has utterly won and is utterly in control.
Why are you still unhappy? You literally have it all your own way!
You can’t be for real Steve? This kind of victim narrative is exactly the same as what the Trump lot indulge in.
Yeah some remainers are annoying, but that’s the nature of the democracy you keep bringing up! In regards to Brexit it’s been delivered and those who promised it have a 80 seat majority and won two elections. Brexit has utterly won and is utterly in control.
Why are you still unhappy? You literally have it all your own way!
[Post edited 14 Jan 2021 7:56]
Did i imagine all the goings on in the HOC, HOL and supreme court as well as interference from the European commision itself ?
[Post edited 14 Jan 2021 7:49]
'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.'
In his latest speech (which, of course, he makes no mention of his impeachment) he mentions there have been reports of demonstrations in the coming days in Washington and across the country.
At no point does he say anything along the lines of “please don’t”.
He says every American has the right to have their voice herd in a peaceful and respectful way and cites the first amendment. There must be no violence, vandalism or law breaking of any kind.
Whilst I am for the right of free speech and protest perhaps on this occasion it serves no purpose especially as the reasons for protesting are completely false and baseless. He’s basically telling his people again to go ahead and protest, and we know what that will lead to.
Trumpism doesn't just go away when the clock runs out on his presidency. Trump divided the country by convincing half of them that the other half cheated. The only way the country can be less divided is when the real cheaters come out and admit that there was no voter fraud, there was no Dominion vote switching and there's nothing wrong with voting by mail (apart from it taking too long because we crippled the postal service).
He's been saying the election is rigged since 2016 and with all of his enablers he's whipped his base up into such a frenzy that they are now out of control. Trump has 100% split the US into two and he achieved that before the election. Now he's hell bent on burning the place down on his way out, impeachment or no impeachment. This isn't a surprise, people ITK have been saying he'd do this since before he won, hell he even told us himself...
[Post edited 14 Jan 2021 0:19]
I wasn’t saying Trumpism goes away, I was saying that his actions last Wednesday will have lost him some support of that 75million that voted for him. Keep him on Twitter and let him gradually reduce that support further. Impeach him and his supporters become even more entrenched and the divisions in US will remain.
I wasn’t saying Trumpism goes away, I was saying that his actions last Wednesday will have lost him some support of that 75million that voted for him. Keep him on Twitter and let him gradually reduce that support further. Impeach him and his supporters become even more entrenched and the divisions in US will remain.
Its a dilemma. Impeach him and he galvanises support but how can he be above the law and not be impeached when he caused the death of five people.
The law must always stand firm regardless otherwise anarchy ensues.
Its a dilemma. Impeach him and he galvanises support but how can he be above the law and not be impeached when he caused the death of five people.
The law must always stand firm regardless otherwise anarchy ensues.
If he’s convicted in Senate, then yes. Completely agree. But 5% of Republicans voted yesterday to impeach. They need 2/3 of Senate which is 50:50 split. It will never happen. All this process has done is and will do is make the country more divided. Trump loves being centre of attention. From next week, he’s just an old git. This impeachment gives him more publicity. Convict the individuals involved and just let Trump gradually become less visible....that will piss him off more.
If he’s convicted in Senate, then yes. Completely agree. But 5% of Republicans voted yesterday to impeach. They need 2/3 of Senate which is 50:50 split. It will never happen. All this process has done is and will do is make the country more divided. Trump loves being centre of attention. From next week, he’s just an old git. This impeachment gives him more publicity. Convict the individuals involved and just let Trump gradually become less visible....that will piss him off more.
I agree that it’s unlikely to get through senate but the process has to happen otherwise he’ll believe he’s an untouchable demi-God. There’s no real win situation and is about what’s the lesser of two evils.
I doubt he’ll like the fact that he’s the only POTUS to have been impeached twice and only the 3rd of 45 to have been impeached at all. I’m reading that companies are pulling out of dealing with the Trump Organisation. This will do him more harm in the long run. He’ll not only have done massive damage to the US but he’ll bring down the company his grandparents started unless other family members can get in and remove him.
Not so sure that Trump will be as big a power once the 20th comes as touted,if the Dems don't go ahead with the Senate trial too quickly Trump will no doubt bounce about on the side lines probably adding a few more falshoods to his defence, but as out of office not the protection of the Presidential position to stop the real dirt being dished up.
Trump's achilles heel is money, every thing he does has dollar signs attached, if getting sued by various States/ prople I wonder what decent legal firm want him as a client ?
Probably enough brainwashed to get a fighting fund together but I do wonder if the GOR itself will be too happy dipping into their war chest to help.
You can’t be for real Steve? This kind of victim narrative is exactly the same as what the Trump lot indulge in.
Yeah some remainers are annoying, but that’s the nature of the democracy you keep bringing up! In regards to Brexit it’s been delivered and those who promised it have a 80 seat majority and won two elections. Brexit has utterly won and is utterly in control.
Why are you still unhappy? You literally have it all your own way!
[Post edited 14 Jan 2021 7:56]
I’m perfectly happy Baz, although it’s not actually about being happy, it’s about respecting the vote.
I wasn’t happy in 1997 when Blair got voted in but I accepted it, as we all should. The reaction over here to the democratic vote in 2016 here was shameful and that reaction has created the massive divisions we still see 5 years later.
Over to the US, I totally condemn the actions of Qanon and Trump, they are wrong, it’s up to the Republicans to go away and assess how to get elected in years to come. Incidentally, be interested to know if you’d condemn Antifa if they were reacting in the same way?
As for Trump, the man is now virtually deranged. I fully understand the Democrats challenging him on his policies, that’s the correct thing to do, but the way they’ve gone for him personally over the last four years is unacceptable. To personally vilify the man on such a scale would be classed as bullying in any other circumstance, it’s been relentless. You hear of previously sane but odd men carrying out atrocities after constant bullying, do we really know if this relentless baiting hasn’t pushed this strange man to the stage he’s reached now? We don’t. He has taken enough, if the Democrats have any humanity they should stop this now, let him go quietly and hopefully this mess can be resolved.
I’m perfectly happy Baz, although it’s not actually about being happy, it’s about respecting the vote.
I wasn’t happy in 1997 when Blair got voted in but I accepted it, as we all should. The reaction over here to the democratic vote in 2016 here was shameful and that reaction has created the massive divisions we still see 5 years later.
Over to the US, I totally condemn the actions of Qanon and Trump, they are wrong, it’s up to the Republicans to go away and assess how to get elected in years to come. Incidentally, be interested to know if you’d condemn Antifa if they were reacting in the same way?
As for Trump, the man is now virtually deranged. I fully understand the Democrats challenging him on his policies, that’s the correct thing to do, but the way they’ve gone for him personally over the last four years is unacceptable. To personally vilify the man on such a scale would be classed as bullying in any other circumstance, it’s been relentless. You hear of previously sane but odd men carrying out atrocities after constant bullying, do we really know if this relentless baiting hasn’t pushed this strange man to the stage he’s reached now? We don’t. He has taken enough, if the Democrats have any humanity they should stop this now, let him go quietly and hopefully this mess can be resolved.
This is not a Brexit thread and we don’t need to go down that road or go around in circles again, please!
I’m perfectly happy Baz, although it’s not actually about being happy, it’s about respecting the vote.
I wasn’t happy in 1997 when Blair got voted in but I accepted it, as we all should. The reaction over here to the democratic vote in 2016 here was shameful and that reaction has created the massive divisions we still see 5 years later.
Over to the US, I totally condemn the actions of Qanon and Trump, they are wrong, it’s up to the Republicans to go away and assess how to get elected in years to come. Incidentally, be interested to know if you’d condemn Antifa if they were reacting in the same way?
As for Trump, the man is now virtually deranged. I fully understand the Democrats challenging him on his policies, that’s the correct thing to do, but the way they’ve gone for him personally over the last four years is unacceptable. To personally vilify the man on such a scale would be classed as bullying in any other circumstance, it’s been relentless. You hear of previously sane but odd men carrying out atrocities after constant bullying, do we really know if this relentless baiting hasn’t pushed this strange man to the stage he’s reached now? We don’t. He has taken enough, if the Democrats have any humanity they should stop this now, let him go quietly and hopefully this mess can be resolved.
steve c,
Do you really believe that Trump ever excercised any respect what so ever for his opponents in whatever sphere he has been involved in ?
Remember the slurs he directed at both Obama and Clinton before winning the 2016 eection, if he is deranged then maybe some sort of physological test should be ehforced on him and a good spell in a secure hospital be arranged, at least he will get the help he needs!!
Do you really believe that Trump ever excercised any respect what so ever for his opponents in whatever sphere he has been involved in ?
Remember the slurs he directed at both Obama and Clinton before winning the 2016 eection, if he is deranged then maybe some sort of physological test should be ehforced on him and a good spell in a secure hospital be arranged, at least he will get the help he needs!!
You may have a point there!
Not excusing it, those things go on in an election but that was one v one essentially. In the end, he’s been beaten, he will be on his way and the Republicans won’t touch him with a barge pole. Think that’s enough really.
I’m perfectly happy Baz, although it’s not actually about being happy, it’s about respecting the vote.
I wasn’t happy in 1997 when Blair got voted in but I accepted it, as we all should. The reaction over here to the democratic vote in 2016 here was shameful and that reaction has created the massive divisions we still see 5 years later.
Over to the US, I totally condemn the actions of Qanon and Trump, they are wrong, it’s up to the Republicans to go away and assess how to get elected in years to come. Incidentally, be interested to know if you’d condemn Antifa if they were reacting in the same way?
As for Trump, the man is now virtually deranged. I fully understand the Democrats challenging him on his policies, that’s the correct thing to do, but the way they’ve gone for him personally over the last four years is unacceptable. To personally vilify the man on such a scale would be classed as bullying in any other circumstance, it’s been relentless. You hear of previously sane but odd men carrying out atrocities after constant bullying, do we really know if this relentless baiting hasn’t pushed this strange man to the stage he’s reached now? We don’t. He has taken enough, if the Democrats have any humanity they should stop this now, let him go quietly and hopefully this mess can be resolved.
The shame for the World is not that Trump was hunted, it's that he wasn't hunted sooner and with more courage, integrity and intensity.
Every time he lied, every time he insulted women, every time he insulted immigrants, every time he insulted people with disabilities, every time he insulted democracy, he should have been hunted.
He needs to be tried, even if there's no chance of the Republicans voting against him. Because they have to go away knowing that they have to drop him and that they can never again attempt another power grab with someone as immoral as Trump.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Or you could open your mind to the other three paragraphs.
Or we could keep Brexit conversations on the Brexit thread that existed. The US election is not about Brexit. As for Trump being bullied, maybe. I personally haven’t looked into it that deep but his behaviour to others over the decades has been appalling.
I think the senate won’t succeed but a motion will be in place that he can never be a politician again. Then his family need to get him out of Trump Organisation (harder, maybe not possible) or he’ll take that down too.
Not a big fan of the theory that he’ll just quietly become irrelevant if we just ignore the last 4+ years. There’s not a simple answer clearly but there must be a better one than constantly trying to appease actual fascism.
Not excusing it, those things go on in an election but that was one v one essentially. In the end, he’s been beaten, he will be on his way and the Republicans won’t touch him with a barge pole. Think that’s enough really.
Through his lying - and the lying of his supporters in the GOP and the media, he has created a situation whereby a huge percentage of Republican voters (wrongly) believe that this was a stolen election. And they will carry that grievance with them.
Through his direct calls to action, he has created a situation whereby the Capitol was stormed, a police officer beaten to death and dozens of fellow officers injured, politicians and their teams were forced to barricade themselves in hiding, and their offices were ransacked. Trump watched on television and refused to do a thing about it, for hours, including either making an appeal to his supporters or calling-in the National Guard. When he did make a video, he praised the people who had stormed the Capitol.
Aside from beating a police officer to death and attacking the other police, there were pipe bombs and guns found nearby, the crowd were chanting "Hang Mike Pence" - because Trump had repeatedly lied about Pence having the power to reject the legitimate election results, and rioters had cable ties and tasers. With footage at the time, and footage and first hand accounts that have emerged, this was a long way from some giddy end-of-season pitch invasion.
His attempts to have a fair election overturned were genuinely shocking (63-1 down in court cases and the 1 they won only related to the amount of days post election that ballots postmarked 3rd Nov could be counted in one state). His blatant attempt to get the GA results changed in his favour as documented on the recorded call, should have been enough to have him impeached.
He has been an unbelievably destructive presence in terms of global democracy. We now have a situation where anyone who opposes him receives credible death threats, and you have GOP politicians admitting to Dem colleagues that they wouldn't vote to impeach Trump because they're scared that they and their families would be murdered by his supporters. When the US preaches about Democracy now to China, Russia et al, they do so with the White House, Capitol and VP's residence behind huge fences, and with 6,000+ National Guard camped out on Capitol Hill, sleeping on the floors of the Senate, a week after the Capitol was stormed by a mob.
And Trump and his followers have created this situation, despite the GOP knowing full well Trump lost a fair election.
Republican appeals for unity are a fu cking joke - the Capitol was stormed, they were in hiding along with their Dem colleagues, and then they still went back in and voted to have election results overturned for Trump, despite knowing there's been no evidence of material fraud. The idea that you have to appease the mob because next time they might do something even worse, surely can't be right. They're Trump's mob, it was his insurrection, it's his supporters that are issuing (credible) death threats, and it's absolutely right that he should be impeached and shunned. Trump should be held to account.
He's a vile Human being and a threat to democracy. If the GOP had held Congress, there's a decent chance the election results would have been overturned. When you look at the overlap between insane conspiracy theorist/Qanon followers, White Supremacist groups and the number of weapons that these people own, it's a genuinely worrying time.
And before someone brings up ANTIFA - I condemn all political violence - the idiots out fighting with the police in Portland and Seattle over the summer can all fu ck-off too.
Through his lying - and the lying of his supporters in the GOP and the media, he has created a situation whereby a huge percentage of Republican voters (wrongly) believe that this was a stolen election. And they will carry that grievance with them.
Through his direct calls to action, he has created a situation whereby the Capitol was stormed, a police officer beaten to death and dozens of fellow officers injured, politicians and their teams were forced to barricade themselves in hiding, and their offices were ransacked. Trump watched on television and refused to do a thing about it, for hours, including either making an appeal to his supporters or calling-in the National Guard. When he did make a video, he praised the people who had stormed the Capitol.
Aside from beating a police officer to death and attacking the other police, there were pipe bombs and guns found nearby, the crowd were chanting "Hang Mike Pence" - because Trump had repeatedly lied about Pence having the power to reject the legitimate election results, and rioters had cable ties and tasers. With footage at the time, and footage and first hand accounts that have emerged, this was a long way from some giddy end-of-season pitch invasion.
His attempts to have a fair election overturned were genuinely shocking (63-1 down in court cases and the 1 they won only related to the amount of days post election that ballots postmarked 3rd Nov could be counted in one state). His blatant attempt to get the GA results changed in his favour as documented on the recorded call, should have been enough to have him impeached.
He has been an unbelievably destructive presence in terms of global democracy. We now have a situation where anyone who opposes him receives credible death threats, and you have GOP politicians admitting to Dem colleagues that they wouldn't vote to impeach Trump because they're scared that they and their families would be murdered by his supporters. When the US preaches about Democracy now to China, Russia et al, they do so with the White House, Capitol and VP's residence behind huge fences, and with 6,000+ National Guard camped out on Capitol Hill, sleeping on the floors of the Senate, a week after the Capitol was stormed by a mob.
And Trump and his followers have created this situation, despite the GOP knowing full well Trump lost a fair election.
Republican appeals for unity are a fu cking joke - the Capitol was stormed, they were in hiding along with their Dem colleagues, and then they still went back in and voted to have election results overturned for Trump, despite knowing there's been no evidence of material fraud. The idea that you have to appease the mob because next time they might do something even worse, surely can't be right. They're Trump's mob, it was his insurrection, it's his supporters that are issuing (credible) death threats, and it's absolutely right that he should be impeached and shunned. Trump should be held to account.
He's a vile Human being and a threat to democracy. If the GOP had held Congress, there's a decent chance the election results would have been overturned. When you look at the overlap between insane conspiracy theorist/Qanon followers, White Supremacist groups and the number of weapons that these people own, it's a genuinely worrying time.
And before someone brings up ANTIFA - I condemn all political violence - the idiots out fighting with the police in Portland and Seattle over the summer can all fu ck-off too.
EDIT: Condone changed to condemn!
[Post edited 14 Jan 2021 10:42]
Konk, the thing is I agree with all that.
The problem is you’re looking at it from the last year only, where Trump has concocted this idea that the vote was a fraud.
But for the last four years the Democrats have gone for him personally, using very similar tactics, I’ve got to say this I’m afraid, as the Remain camp did in refusing to accept the democratic vote here.
Play the ball not the man. Biden will do himself and the Democrats a huge favour if he shows Trump some contrition. You’re a reasonable bloke so why the vindictiveness?
If your reason for not prosecuting someone for an obvious crime is that you fear the reactions of others then the law loses all of its meaning. One of the reasons Republicans politicians are scared of outing Trump's crimes is the backlash they would face from his supporters which includes fearing for their lives. The rest has already been said but "appeasing fascism" accurately sums up what doing nothing about his crimes should be called.
The problem is you’re looking at it from the last year only, where Trump has concocted this idea that the vote was a fraud.
But for the last four years the Democrats have gone for him personally, using very similar tactics, I’ve got to say this I’m afraid, as the Remain camp did in refusing to accept the democratic vote here.
Play the ball not the man. Biden will do himself and the Democrats a huge favour if he shows Trump some contrition. You’re a reasonable bloke so why the vindictiveness?
It's been a deliberate ploy and build up to the 2020 elections. He wins, "yay.... democracy has won", He loses, "it was fraud".
The only person trying to steal the election is him.
I read recently that he was a democrat for 8 years, 2001 - 2009. How can someone switch parties unless it's just for trying to attain personal gain rather than what's best for the nation? If he was still a democrat and, for example, had won the 2016 election as such and had behaved in all the same manner, all the Republicans would be shouting out against him all that time. It's black and white (well, blue and red), us v you, them against us, no one looks beyond that.
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