| Jordy de Wijs on 22:53 - Jan 9 with 3382 views | PhilmyRs |
| Jordy de Wijs on 22:26 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I accept it because what’s the alternative? Bollock him until he turns into Roberto Carlos?
It’s him or Kakay or no one. Now, you could make the argument that maybe Kakay should be given another go, if and when he’s fit which I think is reasonable. But you can’t demand a player into playing well.
As I mentioned, but I don’t think you noticed, he played against a Netherlands international today. For £7m and dozen Holland caps I would expect my full back to block crosses from Todd Kane. |
We set up to be defensive today, we gave Kane decent protection and he did well defensively. Well done to him. But the system we played today also enabled him to get into a number of decent attacking positions and what happened? Now I’ve not once suggested I want my fullbacks to be like Roberto Carlos but I do want them to be able to cross a fcking football.
I’m not just looking to dig out players but the level of crossing from him today was pathetic. I would be fully confident that the majority of full backs in the football league would have had more success than Tod Kane today at beating the first man with a cross. It was poor but you’re basically saying we have no option, he kept a £7m player quiet etc. so just accept it. No, I can’t just accept it. If we play a system that requires a full back/wing back to contribute with supply from wide to the front men then he needs to improve and at the moment is costing us when we’re in attacking positions. I can accept financial limitations and that we need to work and develop what we have but I can’t just sit watching cross after cross hit the first man from promising positions all executed by the same player. It wouldn’t be good enough for my old Sunday league team so it’s certainly not good enough for us. |  | |  |
| Jordy de Wijs on 00:28 - Jan 10 with 3240 views | LazyFan |
Kane was poor today.
This new guy is being brought in so, we can drop Cameron as they rang rings around him today ... again! And he was playing so far back he could have been in the stands.
I think the idea now is to have 3 at the back with wing-backs. BOS is one of them and if fit Kakay. This allows us still to be tight at the back, but also with Ball in front defensively not overrun from midfield. I suspect Barbs will then be the Sweeper.
This leaves free LTC, Chair with Dykes in midfield, yes Dykes in the middle on the right-hand side. Then Chazza upfront.
Dykes showed he's not a Striker today, but he did some nice small passes. Bonne did nothing but huff and puff like the Washout!
Will this work? I have no idea. But it is something new. |  |
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| Jordy de Wijs on 00:56 - Jan 10 with 3218 views | DannyPaddox |
For me the No. 20 shirt will always mean Rob Hulse |  | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 00:59 - Jan 10 with 3212 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Jordy de Wijs on 22:53 - Jan 9 by PhilmyRs |
We set up to be defensive today, we gave Kane decent protection and he did well defensively. Well done to him. But the system we played today also enabled him to get into a number of decent attacking positions and what happened? Now I’ve not once suggested I want my fullbacks to be like Roberto Carlos but I do want them to be able to cross a fcking football.
I’m not just looking to dig out players but the level of crossing from him today was pathetic. I would be fully confident that the majority of full backs in the football league would have had more success than Tod Kane today at beating the first man with a cross. It was poor but you’re basically saying we have no option, he kept a £7m player quiet etc. so just accept it. No, I can’t just accept it. If we play a system that requires a full back/wing back to contribute with supply from wide to the front men then he needs to improve and at the moment is costing us when we’re in attacking positions. I can accept financial limitations and that we need to work and develop what we have but I can’t just sit watching cross after cross hit the first man from promising positions all executed by the same player. It wouldn’t be good enough for my old Sunday league team so it’s certainly not good enough for us. |
Ok, so what do we do? What’s the solution? |  | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 08:09 - Jan 10 with 3064 views | QPROslo |
Warburton has said many times Masterson needs to go out on loan to get more playing time, professional League experience, and we'd cover him (as cover CB) by bringing in another CB on loan. I should think this is what De Wijs is intended to do, if this rumour has truth in it. I've never really understood it myself, because Masterson would surely get his experience with us from injuries, suspensions, or the need to rest one of our current back 3, or 2 if Cameron is used in midfield again. Playing 3 at the back we may need both Masterson and De Wijs as back up. | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 08:58 - Jan 10 with 2949 views | stevec |
| Jordy de Wijs on 21:15 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Now you mention it, I remember thinking the criticism of Matthew Rose was over the top too at the time to be honest.
Kane faced a Premiership £7m ex Monaco Holland international today, and to be honest, kept him quiet by and large. I can't think of a major error either in this game or any other. Brentford aside Haamelainen has been steady if not unspectacular.
90% of the source of anger on this forum stems from not knowing where our station currently is. When it's pointed out, some call it 'lack of ambition' or 'making do'. I call it living in reality.
There are very few Cafus plying their trade for Rochdale or Barnsley, and when there are there is no guaranteed FFP proof way of enticing them here ahead of anyone else. We was blown out by pretty average Ben Whiteman for Preston today. Preston is our level right now. The market rarely lies.
Kane is a mid to lower Championship standard full back playing for a mid to lower standard football club. One day, we might make our own Cafu, but to do that you need to tolerate the Kanes, Haamelainens, and Bidwells in the mean time. We need to make this club attractive to parents by showing them we stick by players like Haamelainen through patches of bad form (not that I think he has been worse than anyone else). [Post edited 9 Jan 2021 21:25]
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Amazes me how so many of our fans are happy to accept such a low bar these days. Have you no ambition at all? |  | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 09:06 - Jan 10 with 2924 views | nix |
| Jordy de Wijs on 08:09 - Jan 10 by QPROslo |
Warburton has said many times Masterson needs to go out on loan to get more playing time, professional League experience, and we'd cover him (as cover CB) by bringing in another CB on loan. I should think this is what De Wijs is intended to do, if this rumour has truth in it. I've never really understood it myself, because Masterson would surely get his experience with us from injuries, suspensions, or the need to rest one of our current back 3, or 2 if Cameron is used in midfield again. Playing 3 at the back we may need both Masterson and De Wijs as back up. |
I'm not sure I agree with this. I feel that defenders improve not only by playing against good players but also by playing regularly in a unit. That's part of the reason why Arsenal's defence in the late 80s and 90s was so good, they just always played together (obviously they were really good players too but the continuity helped). I think that's why our defence is looking at bit better at the moment, because Barbet and Dickie have started to develop a bit of an understanding, so are covering each other, rather than both players going for the same ball or then both of them not going to cover the same ball. It's probably easier for more experienced players to slot in because they're used to picking up different systems, learning more quickly to gel with other players etc. but Masterson isn't there yet.
We've barely had that for years, with Hall being so injury prone, Robinson leaving just when he was becoming effective, Toni not being the all round player for every match (in my view), Lynch always missing half the season with his holiday plans etc. If Masterson could play regularly in men's football rather than u23s it would do him the world of good in my view.
The other factor is that we can't afford to gamble with our defence this season. If we were twelve points from relegation places we could experiment a bit but we haven't got that luxury this season. I think Warburton would love bringing in young players but there's a reason our managers tend to do this once we're both safe from relegation and nowhere near the playoffs. |  | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 09:13 - Jan 10 with 2899 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Jordy de Wijs on 22:53 - Jan 9 by PhilmyRs |
We set up to be defensive today, we gave Kane decent protection and he did well defensively. Well done to him. But the system we played today also enabled him to get into a number of decent attacking positions and what happened? Now I’ve not once suggested I want my fullbacks to be like Roberto Carlos but I do want them to be able to cross a fcking football.
I’m not just looking to dig out players but the level of crossing from him today was pathetic. I would be fully confident that the majority of full backs in the football league would have had more success than Tod Kane today at beating the first man with a cross. It was poor but you’re basically saying we have no option, he kept a £7m player quiet etc. so just accept it. No, I can’t just accept it. If we play a system that requires a full back/wing back to contribute with supply from wide to the front men then he needs to improve and at the moment is costing us when we’re in attacking positions. I can accept financial limitations and that we need to work and develop what we have but I can’t just sit watching cross after cross hit the first man from promising positions all executed by the same player. It wouldn’t be good enough for my old Sunday league team so it’s certainly not good enough for us. |
I can never understand how professional footballers cannot do the basics like cross the ball or take a decent corner. They have literally been playing football all their lives. I know that they are playing at a higher level than any of us reached but how is it possible? Genuinely. I'm not only digging Kane out here but it always amazes me. | | | |
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| Jordy de Wijs on 09:56 - Jan 10 with 2794 views | PhilmyRs |
| Jordy de Wijs on 00:59 - Jan 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Ok, so what do we do? What’s the solution? |
You make a decision on whether you think the player is good enough for us or not or whether you think they can improve to a level which would mean they’re good enough for us.
Of all the things that have frustrated me with Kane, the most disappointing for me has been the level of improvement. He’s been with us a while now and it’s still not clear to me whether he’s improved in that time. Take the player he replaced, Darnell, that kid showed how much you can improve and make the most of your talent. He’s not naturally a great player but through hard work and a good attitude he’s established himself at a higher level than us. Kane has some decent attributes - pace mainly - but he rarely takes the full back on and as I’ve mentioned numerous times the less said about his crossing the better.
Now I accept you think we have no choice and that we have to work with what we’ve got. My view is that we should be seeing more improvement from Kane, there’s not much between him and Kakay but age and potential would lead me to favour Kakay and any savings we make in offloading Kane from a wages perspective or any income generated from other sales should be used to strengthen this area. Our full backs are weak links, I don’t think we can just accept it. That would be my solution. | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 10:05 - Jan 10 with 2773 views | DavieQPR |
He had a poor first season at Hull but improved enough second season to be made Captain post lockdown when they lost a few players. Fell out with the Management when they refused him a move to L A Galaxy. |  | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 10:24 - Jan 10 with 2728 views | francisbowles |
| Jordy de Wijs on 21:15 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Now you mention it, I remember thinking the criticism of Matthew Rose was over the top too at the time to be honest.
Kane faced a Premiership £7m ex Monaco Holland international today, and to be honest, kept him quiet by and large. I can't think of a major error either in this game or any other. Brentford aside Haamelainen has been steady if not unspectacular.
90% of the source of anger on this forum stems from not knowing where our station currently is. When it's pointed out, some call it 'lack of ambition' or 'making do'. I call it living in reality.
There are very few Cafus plying their trade for Rochdale or Barnsley, and when there are there is no guaranteed FFP proof way of enticing them here ahead of anyone else. We was blown out by pretty average Ben Whiteman for Preston today. Preston is our level right now. The market rarely lies.
Kane is a mid to lower Championship standard full back playing for a mid to lower standard football club. One day, we might make our own Cafu, but to do that you need to tolerate the Kanes, Haamelainens, and Bidwells in the mean time. We need to make this club attractive to parents by showing them we stick by players like Haamelainen through patches of bad form (not that I think he has been worse than anyone else). [Post edited 9 Jan 2021 21:25]
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I agree with this post entirely Baz.
However, I also agree with Nix. We need this extra defender as Masterson needs to go on loan. Hamalainen needs to develop his game and the best way to do that is to have extra competition for the left back slot. This loan signing enables both of those.
We have been fortunate with cb so far, as I think the two have been injury free and I think only Dickie's red card has separated them.
Nico needs a bit more coaching and possibly a weights regime starting at the end of the season. | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 10:26 - Jan 10 with 2720 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Jordy de Wijs on 08:58 - Jan 10 by stevec |
Amazes me how so many of our fans are happy to accept such a low bar these days. Have you no ambition at all? |
Again, what’s the alternative? | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 10:33 - Jan 10 with 2696 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Jordy de Wijs on 20:57 - Jan 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
I think that Niko has been better than Kane. I think they're two entirely different cases.
As it is he's a reliable and cheap understudy tied down to a cheap long-term deal. As for the future, we don't know but he's an International already and he would be expected to improve as he hits his mid to late 20's.
Kane was bought as a first-teamer and is a worry. He lacks aggression and huger and is unlikely to develop either at his age. |
Kakay should be back from injury soon.....still a lot of development needed, but quicker and more aggressive than Kane imo. | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 10:38 - Jan 10 with 2679 views | Myke |
| Jordy de Wijs on 09:06 - Jan 10 by nix |
I'm not sure I agree with this. I feel that defenders improve not only by playing against good players but also by playing regularly in a unit. That's part of the reason why Arsenal's defence in the late 80s and 90s was so good, they just always played together (obviously they were really good players too but the continuity helped). I think that's why our defence is looking at bit better at the moment, because Barbet and Dickie have started to develop a bit of an understanding, so are covering each other, rather than both players going for the same ball or then both of them not going to cover the same ball. It's probably easier for more experienced players to slot in because they're used to picking up different systems, learning more quickly to gel with other players etc. but Masterson isn't there yet.
We've barely had that for years, with Hall being so injury prone, Robinson leaving just when he was becoming effective, Toni not being the all round player for every match (in my view), Lynch always missing half the season with his holiday plans etc. If Masterson could play regularly in men's football rather than u23s it would do him the world of good in my view.
The other factor is that we can't afford to gamble with our defence this season. If we were twelve points from relegation places we could experiment a bit but we haven't got that luxury this season. I think Warburton would love bringing in young players but there's a reason our managers tend to do this once we're both safe from relegation and nowhere near the playoffs. |
Very good post. I want Masterson to succeed and he did fine last season when, as you rightly point out, there was less pressure on us. This season he has already made errors that have led directly to goals (Cardiff/Watford) and while he is not alone in that by any means, he is the least experienced in terms of league (not necessarily championship) games played. If he got 20 games at league one level , he could come back much stronger next season. | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 12:20 - Jan 10 with 2576 views | rsonist |
I've never particularly liked Kane but we had a lot of turnover and uncertainty when MW came in, had to sell Darnell, and were left with Rangel's age and Kakay one year younger (and still to convince by MW's own admission anyway). Kane was free and experienced at this level and as reasonable an option around as any at the time to expect to function as an extended stopgap at very least.
The position can be improved on - and personally I think Kakay will always closer to being a CB than attacking RB engine or no engine - but while I'm not quite as fatalistic about the prospect as Baz perhaps unintentionally may be coming across as, it's very easy to sit around here going not good enough fck off get rid replace AMBISHUN and very much not so easy when you get down to brass tacks taking availability and money into account. In the meantime you have to get by, and some patience helps. There's a lot of "one transfer window" thinking about - reality is you're always making compromises, waiting for better opportunities, building over several windows.
Perry Ng at Crewe is widely thought of as the outstanding RB at lower level and is out of contract in the summer, someone I'd certainly like us to be enquiring about (his midfield teammate Ryan Wintle too) but Cardiff tried a bid this week and were told it was "disgusting" so that tells you something about buying for the future in midseason. As much as Crewe might be under pressure to take money for him now, we have the same pressure to not spend it if we can afford to wait - Preston spending £1m+ on Whiteman six months ahead of him being free in a one horse race against us (he doesn't want to come south) is pretty lavish when you think about it, but they've had years saving up too. [Post edited 10 Jan 2021 12:22]
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| Jordy de Wijs on 13:10 - Jan 10 with 2494 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Jordy de Wijs on 12:20 - Jan 10 by rsonist |
I've never particularly liked Kane but we had a lot of turnover and uncertainty when MW came in, had to sell Darnell, and were left with Rangel's age and Kakay one year younger (and still to convince by MW's own admission anyway). Kane was free and experienced at this level and as reasonable an option around as any at the time to expect to function as an extended stopgap at very least.
The position can be improved on - and personally I think Kakay will always closer to being a CB than attacking RB engine or no engine - but while I'm not quite as fatalistic about the prospect as Baz perhaps unintentionally may be coming across as, it's very easy to sit around here going not good enough fck off get rid replace AMBISHUN and very much not so easy when you get down to brass tacks taking availability and money into account. In the meantime you have to get by, and some patience helps. There's a lot of "one transfer window" thinking about - reality is you're always making compromises, waiting for better opportunities, building over several windows.
Perry Ng at Crewe is widely thought of as the outstanding RB at lower level and is out of contract in the summer, someone I'd certainly like us to be enquiring about (his midfield teammate Ryan Wintle too) but Cardiff tried a bid this week and were told it was "disgusting" so that tells you something about buying for the future in midseason. As much as Crewe might be under pressure to take money for him now, we have the same pressure to not spend it if we can afford to wait - Preston spending £1m+ on Whiteman six months ahead of him being free in a one horse race against us (he doesn't want to come south) is pretty lavish when you think about it, but they've had years saving up too. [Post edited 10 Jan 2021 12:22]
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Bingo.
As you say, I’m not as fatalistic as I’m coming across, it’s just a consequence of responding without thinking in between housework and getting the on my partner’s nerves.
It’s not my job to police the comments or opinions of anyone on here, but it’s is frustrating to see people rant and rave on this thread about ambition, then rant and rave about Mark Hughes or FFP on another as if the two are not connected. Just feels like LfW and QPR is just a lightening rod for QPR related anger, which is fine, but ultimately doesn’t contribute anything useful to the conversation, which is why we are all here I guess?
I’m repeating myself as I tend to, but I just don’t think Kane, Niko, Dykes, or Bonne, are are playing as badly as is being made out. They are struggling right now sure but they all started brightly and it definitely feels like the difference between them and our opponents are small margins in form rather than huge deficiencies in their ability.
Some reasonable suggestions for RB and some acknowledgment of the difficulties that face any club at our level trying to do business in January in a limited market. | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 13:21 - Jan 10 with 2454 views | Myke |
| Jordy de Wijs on 13:10 - Jan 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Bingo.
As you say, I’m not as fatalistic as I’m coming across, it’s just a consequence of responding without thinking in between housework and getting the on my partner’s nerves.
It’s not my job to police the comments or opinions of anyone on here, but it’s is frustrating to see people rant and rave on this thread about ambition, then rant and rave about Mark Hughes or FFP on another as if the two are not connected. Just feels like LfW and QPR is just a lightening rod for QPR related anger, which is fine, but ultimately doesn’t contribute anything useful to the conversation, which is why we are all here I guess?
I’m repeating myself as I tend to, but I just don’t think Kane, Niko, Dykes, or Bonne, are are playing as badly as is being made out. They are struggling right now sure but they all started brightly and it definitely feels like the difference between them and our opponents are small margins in form rather than huge deficiencies in their ability.
Some reasonable suggestions for RB and some acknowledgment of the difficulties that face any club at our level trying to do business in January in a limited market. |
Excellent post. When you hear top managers like Klopp saying they are loath to do business in January (despite barely having one fit CB) then you realise how difficult it is for minnows like ourselves. The 'sensible' strategy is to do what we are doing, bring in players on short-term loan deals and see how they (and the club) progress. Danger with that of course is that while they might start off enthusiastically, they may well down tools long before the end of the season. (not levelling this accusation at Austin btw, before anyone has a go, just a general observation of the difficulties with short-term loans) | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 13:35 - Jan 10 with 2422 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Jordy de Wijs on 13:21 - Jan 10 by Myke |
Excellent post. When you hear top managers like Klopp saying they are loath to do business in January (despite barely having one fit CB) then you realise how difficult it is for minnows like ourselves. The 'sensible' strategy is to do what we are doing, bring in players on short-term loan deals and see how they (and the club) progress. Danger with that of course is that while they might start off enthusiastically, they may well down tools long before the end of the season. (not levelling this accusation at Austin btw, before anyone has a go, just a general observation of the difficulties with short-term loans) |
Was having this chat with Karl yesterday.
The fact that signing high waged (I presume) and injury prone players like Austin is the exception and not the rule is something to celebrate. I can’t think of many times we’ve loaned in a fire fighter over the last few seasons. Wells maybe? | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 16:28 - Jan 10 with 2242 views | hantssi |
You’ve stolen Toms thunder there Bri!
He’ll be on in a minute claiming ITK! | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 16:40 - Jan 10 with 2174 views | Myke |
Hass Dickie being playing on the right of the three in recent games? Because he will have to if de Wijs and Barbet are alongside him | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 16:49 - Jan 10 with 2149 views | terryb |
| Jordy de Wijs on 16:40 - Jan 10 by Myke |
Hass Dickie being playing on the right of the three in recent games? Because he will have to if de Wijs and Barbet are alongside him |
He's always been on the right, no matter if it is a two or a three.
In a back three, Cameron has been in the middle. | | | |
| Jordy de Wijs on 17:03 - Jan 10 with 2097 views | davman |
Kane started the season (when he eventually played) pretty well, but has fallen over the cliff edge our players have a tendency to.
1. He stands off players giving them the chance to cross. Surely his job is to stop crosses coming in?
2. His crossing and passing is woeful. Anyone got his indi idual stats as I am convinced he constantly gave the ball away or hit the nearest defender every time he ad a chance to cross.
3. And when he loses possession he rarely gets back.
We cannot carry Bonne, Dykes and Kane in this team whilst our game plan involves "looking after the football" (c) Mark Warburton. Every time any one of them got the ball, the attack invariably breaks down within 5 seconds.
Niko looks bereft of confidence at the moment, but Kane is as good as he'll ever be. Short term deal for Rangel anyone? |  |
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| Jordy de Wijs on 17:10 - Jan 10 with 2057 views | Nov77 |
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| Jordy de Wijs on 18:33 - Jan 10 with 1894 views | Myke |
| Jordy de Wijs on 16:49 - Jan 10 by terryb |
He's always been on the right, no matter if it is a two or a three.
In a back three, Cameron has been in the middle. |
Cheers. I knew he was right of Barbet in a two, but wasn't sure where Cameron was in a three | | | |
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