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NHS records being sold to commercial companies 09:59 - Jun 8 with 6775 viewsGloryHunter

If you don't want your or your family's medical records to be sold to commercial companies - almost certainly including the Americans - then you have to opt out by 23rd June.
https://medconfidential.org/how-to-opt-out/
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:12 - Jun 8 with 4326 viewsdaveB

https://www.nhs.uk/your-nhs-data-matters/
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:20 - Jun 8 with 4287 viewswood_hoop

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:12 - Jun 8 by daveB

https://www.nhs.uk/your-nhs-data-matters/


Thanks daveB, mine now done takes only a few minutes.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 13:22 - Jun 8 with 4112 viewslightwaterhoop

Thanks guys,i didnt even know about this.Ive heard of selling the family silver but this is ridiculous.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 13:44 - Jun 8 with 4026 viewsBklynRanger

I think this deserves to be looked into a bit more tbh. There's a massive need for further research and service planning for a whole host of diseases and long term conditions that all kinds of people we know suffer from.

The next page on Dave's link says the following:

'Access to confidential patient information will not be given for:
- marketing purposes
- insurance purposes
(unless you request this)'

Ok, in this day and age you can justifiably be sceptical about that, but the more available data the better the modelling can be.

So absolutely - worth being aware of and questioning, but I'm not inclined to immediately opt out at this point - just my own thoughts of course.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 13:52 - Jun 8 with 3991 viewsflynnbo

Did mine yesterday.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 13:59 - Jun 8 with 3965 viewsenfieldargh

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 13:44 - Jun 8 by BklynRanger

I think this deserves to be looked into a bit more tbh. There's a massive need for further research and service planning for a whole host of diseases and long term conditions that all kinds of people we know suffer from.

The next page on Dave's link says the following:

'Access to confidential patient information will not be given for:
- marketing purposes
- insurance purposes
(unless you request this)'

Ok, in this day and age you can justifiably be sceptical about that, but the more available data the better the modelling can be.

So absolutely - worth being aware of and questioning, but I'm not inclined to immediately opt out at this point - just my own thoughts of course.


well thought out, would never have occurred to me to consider these points.

captains fantastic
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 14:03 - Jun 8 with 3953 viewsdmm

I've also opted out. The way this is being rolled out with little, if any, proper communication makes me very suspicious of an already criminally incompetent government.

This brief article sets out the basic info and some very resonable questions being asked: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/06/why-are-there-calls-for-a-pause-
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 14:25 - Jun 8 with 3904 viewsE17hoop

It's been pushed back to 'raise awareness'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57400902

It's always noisiest at the shallow end
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 14:37 - Jun 8 with 3863 viewsBklynRanger

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 14:03 - Jun 8 by dmm

I've also opted out. The way this is being rolled out with little, if any, proper communication makes me very suspicious of an already criminally incompetent government.

This brief article sets out the basic info and some very resonable questions being asked: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/06/why-are-there-calls-for-a-pause-


So two questions raised there - one about the amount of data being held - that's also the main benefit, though they do need to have it properly secured and reassure people on that.

The other is also about doing a better job of consulting on and explaining what the new process is. Neither of those seem to be related to the actual system.

I see it also says: 'It will exclude any identifying details such as names, addresses, images or details of conversations. Postcodes will be included, but in a coded form.'

Sounds like they do need to take 2 or 3 months and sort it out because a lot of people are going to opt out who otherwise may not have done because they're not clear what they're 'opting in' to. Meanwhile to read that story how many of us will check through what the Guardian wants to do with our cookies?
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 14:55 - Jun 8 with 3813 viewsjohncharles

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 13:44 - Jun 8 by BklynRanger

I think this deserves to be looked into a bit more tbh. There's a massive need for further research and service planning for a whole host of diseases and long term conditions that all kinds of people we know suffer from.

The next page on Dave's link says the following:

'Access to confidential patient information will not be given for:
- marketing purposes
- insurance purposes
(unless you request this)'

Ok, in this day and age you can justifiably be sceptical about that, but the more available data the better the modelling can be.

So absolutely - worth being aware of and questioning, but I'm not inclined to immediately opt out at this point - just my own thoughts of course.


You don’t think this is Privatisation of the NHS by stealth ?
I do.

Strong and stable my arse.

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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:02 - Jun 8 with 3798 viewsBklynRanger

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 14:55 - Jun 8 by johncharles

You don’t think this is Privatisation of the NHS by stealth ?
I do.


I don't think that will be particularly stealthy when it happens John, but no, I don't.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:23 - Jun 8 with 3741 viewsLazyFan

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:02 - Jun 8 by BklynRanger

I don't think that will be particularly stealthy when it happens John, but no, I don't.


Now they have it in place that you have to opt-out for things that people are okay with, the next step is to add in things people won't be okay with and make it impossible to reverse. Especially if they gave you a deadline to opt-out and the offer as if they were doing you a favour with your data.

For example what organs do you have and what types so, we can offer your details to rich people who have ruined theirs and may now want to purchase yours or purchase your debts to then leverage that against you.

Crazy talk no? But this is how it starts. First, they set up the process to make it easier, doing it with simple and possibly sensible things, just to ease the path and then they come with all the other stuff till someone stops them if they ever do!

Really it should be an opt-in process, whereby you can also select what you would like to share not assume with an opt-out everyone wants to share everything all the time.

The fact it is opt-out proves to me they will eventually use it maliciously against me or my loved ones. Quite simply because they can make money from it and they just can. Its too easy for abuse so, you know it will happen.

zzzzzzzzzz

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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:28 - Jun 8 with 3729 viewsessextaxiboy

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 13:44 - Jun 8 by BklynRanger

I think this deserves to be looked into a bit more tbh. There's a massive need for further research and service planning for a whole host of diseases and long term conditions that all kinds of people we know suffer from.

The next page on Dave's link says the following:

'Access to confidential patient information will not be given for:
- marketing purposes
- insurance purposes
(unless you request this)'

Ok, in this day and age you can justifiably be sceptical about that, but the more available data the better the modelling can be.

So absolutely - worth being aware of and questioning, but I'm not inclined to immediately opt out at this point - just my own thoughts of course.


I pretty much agree .

Not sure if this means we could be identified personally or just part of data ,

Insurance companys could and would use personal data to load or possibly exclude people from cover purely on the basis that they had been referred for a few scans and tests.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:28 - Jun 8 with 3725 viewsQPR_John

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:23 - Jun 8 by LazyFan

Now they have it in place that you have to opt-out for things that people are okay with, the next step is to add in things people won't be okay with and make it impossible to reverse. Especially if they gave you a deadline to opt-out and the offer as if they were doing you a favour with your data.

For example what organs do you have and what types so, we can offer your details to rich people who have ruined theirs and may now want to purchase yours or purchase your debts to then leverage that against you.

Crazy talk no? But this is how it starts. First, they set up the process to make it easier, doing it with simple and possibly sensible things, just to ease the path and then they come with all the other stuff till someone stops them if they ever do!

Really it should be an opt-in process, whereby you can also select what you would like to share not assume with an opt-out everyone wants to share everything all the time.

The fact it is opt-out proves to me they will eventually use it maliciously against me or my loved ones. Quite simply because they can make money from it and they just can. Its too easy for abuse so, you know it will happen.


If only we lived in a democracy where we would be able to change things. Or are you saying left or right all those given power would work for their own benefits against the wider population
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:31 - Jun 8 with 3720 viewskensalriser

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:02 - Jun 8 by BklynRanger

I don't think that will be particularly stealthy when it happens John, but no, I don't.


Oh it will be.

Dentistry has been largely privatised for years and competitive tendering in the NHS is long established too. Privatising health (and education, cf academies) is a very different process to simply floating utility companies on the stock market.

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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:46 - Jun 8 with 3674 viewsBklynRanger

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:31 - Jun 8 by kensalriser

Oh it will be.

Dentistry has been largely privatised for years and competitive tendering in the NHS is long established too. Privatising health (and education, cf academies) is a very different process to simply floating utility companies on the stock market.


Both of those examples are long established though. If you're looking for stealth at the moment I'd pay more attention to ideas like accountable care, capitation, payments and incentives related to that. Those are the sort of thin-end-of-the-wedge things currently being borrowed from the US and grafted onto the system here.

The way things are currently though I just don't see the next steps being all that stealthy - could be wrong I know.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:50 - Jun 8 with 3656 viewsMrSheen

Perish the thought that my data could be sold to create trivial rubbish like medical treatments rather than essential services like selling me t-shirts with lion faces or garden sheds.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:59 - Jun 8 with 3623 viewsozranger

Here is an interesting question.. what about those who have emigrated? This system intends to take the past ten years of data and my guess is that when an individual emigrates to somewhere else, say sunny Australia, then they are highly unlikely to know about this at all. They are also somewhat unlikely to have told their doctor that they have emigrated as well and even if they did, would the doctor have destroyed their records or opt-out for them?

This is another reason why this should be opt in instead of opt out.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 16:09 - Jun 8 with 3597 viewsHanwellHoopster

Take my smart phone data please commercial company, and please take all my data supermarket loyalty card. You can know everything about me and I won't blink. Will I happily let you sell on my data because I want this app for free instead of paying 99p? Oh yes I will.

But NHS take my aggregated and anonymised data and share it with world-class research institutions to create new treatments or care pathways? God no, sounds dreadful. I care so much about data privacy.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 16:27 - Jun 8 with 3564 viewsdmm

I'm quite sure this is will play into the privatisation of the NHS. It's been slowly happening for decades and continues with things like the US health insurance group Centene Corporation hoovering up GP practices and becoming the largest single private primary care provider in England. There's massive concern among doctors and health workers at what this and past Govts are doing to the NHS.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 16:59 - Jun 8 with 3500 viewsHanwellHoopster

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 16:27 - Jun 8 by dmm

I'm quite sure this is will play into the privatisation of the NHS. It's been slowly happening for decades and continues with things like the US health insurance group Centene Corporation hoovering up GP practices and becoming the largest single private primary care provider in England. There's massive concern among doctors and health workers at what this and past Govts are doing to the NHS.


GP practices have always been private providers of NHS care. Since the very inception of NHS care.

The notion that the NHS is being privatised is a nonsense. The King's Fund are both independent and experts: https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/articles/big-election-questions-nhs-pr

In their words: "Overall, there is no evidence of a significant increase in spending on private providers or widespread privatisation of services in recent years."

About 7.2% of the NHS budget is spent on independent providers, and that includes the likes of the Marie Curie hospices and other charities.

The one and only time a private provider tried to run an NHS hospital they gave up because it was "unsustainable". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-30740956

Anyone capable of reading the financial report of any NHS trust or foundation trust will quickly realise that no sane business person would think that privatising NHS hospitals is a viable way of making money.

Labour try and make this an issue at every election, and it never works, because people can see through the nonsense.
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 18:06 - Jun 8 with 3381 viewsR_from_afar

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 16:59 - Jun 8 by HanwellHoopster

GP practices have always been private providers of NHS care. Since the very inception of NHS care.

The notion that the NHS is being privatised is a nonsense. The King's Fund are both independent and experts: https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/articles/big-election-questions-nhs-pr

In their words: "Overall, there is no evidence of a significant increase in spending on private providers or widespread privatisation of services in recent years."

About 7.2% of the NHS budget is spent on independent providers, and that includes the likes of the Marie Curie hospices and other charities.

The one and only time a private provider tried to run an NHS hospital they gave up because it was "unsustainable". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-30740956

Anyone capable of reading the financial report of any NHS trust or foundation trust will quickly realise that no sane business person would think that privatising NHS hospitals is a viable way of making money.

Labour try and make this an issue at every election, and it never works, because people can see through the nonsense.


"Under the Tories, privatisation has increased from £4.1 billion in 2009/10 to £9.2 billion in 2018/19. This is an increase of over 120%".

Those figures are from a government response to a Parliamentary Written Question and the Department of Health and Social Care’s 2018-19 Annual Report and Accounts.

https://insider.labour.org.uk/factcheck/nhs-privatisation-has-more-than-doubled-

"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."

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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 19:01 - Jun 8 with 3299 viewsessextaxiboy

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 18:06 - Jun 8 by R_from_afar

"Under the Tories, privatisation has increased from £4.1 billion in 2009/10 to £9.2 billion in 2018/19. This is an increase of over 120%".

Those figures are from a government response to a Parliamentary Written Question and the Department of Health and Social Care’s 2018-19 Annual Report and Accounts.

https://insider.labour.org.uk/factcheck/nhs-privatisation-has-more-than-doubled-


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/12/nhs-hospital-trusts-to-pay-out-

If the Torys ultimate aim was to privatise the NHS wouldnt they have just done it during the Thatcher years.
[Post edited 8 Jun 2021 19:03]
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 19:23 - Jun 8 with 3236 viewsBazzaInTheLoft

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 19:01 - Jun 8 by essextaxiboy

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/12/nhs-hospital-trusts-to-pay-out-

If the Torys ultimate aim was to privatise the NHS wouldnt they have just done it during the Thatcher years.
[Post edited 8 Jun 2021 19:03]


She did try but was rebuffed. It was called the Omega Plan.
[Post edited 8 Jun 2021 19:28]
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NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 19:24 - Jun 8 with 3234 viewsHanwellHoopster

NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 18:06 - Jun 8 by R_from_afar

"Under the Tories, privatisation has increased from £4.1 billion in 2009/10 to £9.2 billion in 2018/19. This is an increase of over 120%".

Those figures are from a government response to a Parliamentary Written Question and the Department of Health and Social Care’s 2018-19 Annual Report and Accounts.

https://insider.labour.org.uk/factcheck/nhs-privatisation-has-more-than-doubled-


Or, more accurately, using the very figures you've linked to in the PQ answered, spend on independent providers [nb including charities like Marie Curie] went from £4.1bn in 2009/10 against a total NHS budget of £94bn, 4.4%, to £9.2bn against a total NHS budget of £129bn in 2018/19, about 7.1%. It's been about 7% since 2014/15.

If the Tories evil plan to privatise the NHS after 11 years in power was to increase independent sector spending by a few %, it really wasn't a very good plan. Especially given they've increased the NHS budget by 40 or so billion pounds in that time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no defender of this shambolic government, which I didn't vote for, and can't wait to see the back of. I just don't understand why people fight them on made up issues instead of taking the fight to them on one of the tens or hundreds of actual issues they manage to mess up with their half arsed incompetence.

Anyway, I've said my bit and will leave it be before this becomes circular.
[Post edited 8 Jun 2021 19:29]
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