| NHS records being sold to commercial companies 09:59 - Jun 8 with 6856 views | GloryHunter |
If you don't want your or your family's medical records to be sold to commercial companies - almost certainly including the Americans - then you have to opt out by 23rd June.
https://medconfidential.org/how-to-opt-out/ |  | | |  |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 20:13 - Jun 8 with 1291 views | SheffieldHoop |
I won't be opting out of this
I've found using the NHS as a patient is a lot easier the more accessible your records are.
Don't really get why people would opt out tbh. The excuses above seem pretty lame.
FWIW I have never come across the "Selling patient data to commercial companies" division of an NHS trust either [Post edited 8 Jun 2021 20:15]
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| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 20:21 - Jun 8 with 1272 views | GloryHunter |
Two points:
1. The anonymised data can be de-anonymised if the government decides there is a good legal reason for it. The government, not the individual whose life the data represents.
2. If you want to opt out, there are two things you have to do. The online opt-out only covers hospital data. To stop your GP-held data being shared, you have to print off the letter and post it or hand-deliver it to your GP practice. Some of the press reporting does not make this clear. | | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 20:45 - Jun 8 with 1222 views | GloryHunter |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 20:13 - Jun 8 by SheffieldHoop |
I won't be opting out of this
I've found using the NHS as a patient is a lot easier the more accessible your records are.
Don't really get why people would opt out tbh. The excuses above seem pretty lame.
FWIW I have never come across the "Selling patient data to commercial companies" division of an NHS trust either [Post edited 8 Jun 2021 20:15]
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Opting out of this data grab is not going to stop your GP medical records being accessed by NHS hospitals, or vice versa. It is going to stop it being shared with, or sold to, third parties without your knowledge or permission.
Genuine researchers can already access general data about numbers or patients and their illnesses and co-morbidities etc. They don't need this additional power to improve their statistical work. | | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 20:59 - Jun 8 with 1208 views | Ranger_Things |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 20:45 - Jun 8 by GloryHunter |
Opting out of this data grab is not going to stop your GP medical records being accessed by NHS hospitals, or vice versa. It is going to stop it being shared with, or sold to, third parties without your knowledge or permission.
Genuine researchers can already access general data about numbers or patients and their illnesses and co-morbidities etc. They don't need this additional power to improve their statistical work. |
Perfectly put. |  | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 21:02 - Jun 8 with 1202 views | SheffieldHoop |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 20:45 - Jun 8 by GloryHunter |
Opting out of this data grab is not going to stop your GP medical records being accessed by NHS hospitals, or vice versa. It is going to stop it being shared with, or sold to, third parties without your knowledge or permission.
Genuine researchers can already access general data about numbers or patients and their illnesses and co-morbidities etc. They don't need this additional power to improve their statistical work. |
Third parties like Macmillian Nurses?
They can have it, should they ever need it, more than welcome
A lot of my career has been spent in NHS data interoperability
I feel like I know enough about it and the people in it
I'm happy enough that this isn't going to be used against me
I won't be opting out | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 21:04 - Jun 8 with 1202 views | GloryHunter |
One of my reasons for starting this thread is that I have a colleague who is a science journalist. TWENTY years ago he advised me never to buy booze, fags or red meat using a supermarket loyalty card. His sources in the US told him that insurance companies were paying for this scraped data, in preparation for the day when the UK health system would switch to an insurance-based model. If and when that happens, your health insurance premiums will be tiered according to your previous medical history, and your "lifestyle". I'll leave it up to you if you choose to think this is plausible or not. | | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 23:13 - Jun 8 with 1130 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 21:04 - Jun 8 by GloryHunter |
One of my reasons for starting this thread is that I have a colleague who is a science journalist. TWENTY years ago he advised me never to buy booze, fags or red meat using a supermarket loyalty card. His sources in the US told him that insurance companies were paying for this scraped data, in preparation for the day when the UK health system would switch to an insurance-based model. If and when that happens, your health insurance premiums will be tiered according to your previous medical history, and your "lifestyle". I'll leave it up to you if you choose to think this is plausible or not. |
An actuary friend told me similar and that they use the trends scrapped from things Nectar cards etc to predict death rates in different regions. While it saves the insurance companies money it also means that otherwise healthy people suffer hiked up premiums or refused policies because they live in certain postcodes.
Our personal data makes a lot of unethical companies extremely rich when it could be used to allocate public services more efficiently. |  | | |
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| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 08:20 - Jun 9 with 1033 views | distortR |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 21:04 - Jun 8 by GloryHunter |
One of my reasons for starting this thread is that I have a colleague who is a science journalist. TWENTY years ago he advised me never to buy booze, fags or red meat using a supermarket loyalty card. His sources in the US told him that insurance companies were paying for this scraped data, in preparation for the day when the UK health system would switch to an insurance-based model. If and when that happens, your health insurance premiums will be tiered according to your previous medical history, and your "lifestyle". I'll leave it up to you if you choose to think this is plausible or not. |
they always want the proverbial eye-in-the-sky, literally and metaphorically.
The mason's all-seeing eye.
I'm putting my colander on before I go to work today. |  | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 08:32 - Jun 9 with 1017 views | loftupper |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 21:04 - Jun 8 by GloryHunter |
One of my reasons for starting this thread is that I have a colleague who is a science journalist. TWENTY years ago he advised me never to buy booze, fags or red meat using a supermarket loyalty card. His sources in the US told him that insurance companies were paying for this scraped data, in preparation for the day when the UK health system would switch to an insurance-based model. If and when that happens, your health insurance premiums will be tiered according to your previous medical history, and your "lifestyle". I'll leave it up to you if you choose to think this is plausible or not. |
Why can't people take responsibility for their health? Maybe the costs should be tiered. | | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 08:51 - Jun 9 with 996 views | lightwaterhoop |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 08:32 - Jun 9 by loftupper |
Why can't people take responsibility for their health? Maybe the costs should be tiered. |
I know where your coming from but its not always possible. | | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 09:14 - Jun 9 with 974 views | MrSheen |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 23:13 - Jun 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
An actuary friend told me similar and that they use the trends scrapped from things Nectar cards etc to predict death rates in different regions. While it saves the insurance companies money it also means that otherwise healthy people suffer hiked up premiums or refused policies because they live in certain postcodes.
Our personal data makes a lot of unethical companies extremely rich when it could be used to allocate public services more efficiently. |
But using better data than can be extracted from Nectar cards surely mean better deigned and targetted services and more precise pricing for companies, however ethical or unethical they are. The next issue then is that people with health conditions can't afford insurance, while healthy people who don't need it can.
I think you're imposing an unhelpful distinction between healthcare services, which are publicly available to everyone in this country, and privately to those who want/cam afford them, and products - drugs, implants, devices etc, which are privately produced even though their biggest customer is the NHS. Using personal data to make these products better inevitably carries the "risk" of allowing a private company to make a profit, but that won't happen unless they convince the NHS that it is an improvement in either therapeutic or cost effectiveness on what they currently use. |  | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 10:01 - Jun 9 with 940 views | LazyFan |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 15:28 - Jun 8 by QPR_John |
If only we lived in a democracy where we would be able to change things. Or are you saying left or right all those given power would work for their own benefits against the wider population |
The solution is democracy always, but more of it.
For example, the NHS workers should also have more of a say in how the NHS is run day 2 day. This would include democracy of who their manager is as well and they have to keep to their own budgets.
As someone who is in IT, I can tell you these large NHS projects are a waste of money because they never involve the talented workers, the real developers, just high ups who make bad decisions based on what a consultancy told them.
Whenever you see £1bn plus wasted anywhere in IT, I can tell you for a fact it could have been done for 10% of that. That's right 90% is wasted and it's the leadership who waste it not the workers. Yet it's the workers who get the cuts and lose their jobs. I speak as someone who has been one of those leaders so, have seen all these other leaders up close and from what I have seen 90% of them are useless and playing politics. |  |
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| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 10:08 - Jun 9 with 928 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 21:02 - Jun 8 by SheffieldHoop |
Third parties like Macmillian Nurses?
They can have it, should they ever need it, more than welcome
A lot of my career has been spent in NHS data interoperability
I feel like I know enough about it and the people in it
I'm happy enough that this isn't going to be used against me
I won't be opting out |
A slight tangent, but Macmillan shouldn’t exist.
Charity is a failure of state. | | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 10:48 - Jun 9 with 887 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 09:14 - Jun 9 by MrSheen |
But using better data than can be extracted from Nectar cards surely mean better deigned and targetted services and more precise pricing for companies, however ethical or unethical they are. The next issue then is that people with health conditions can't afford insurance, while healthy people who don't need it can.
I think you're imposing an unhelpful distinction between healthcare services, which are publicly available to everyone in this country, and privately to those who want/cam afford them, and products - drugs, implants, devices etc, which are privately produced even though their biggest customer is the NHS. Using personal data to make these products better inevitably carries the "risk" of allowing a private company to make a profit, but that won't happen unless they convince the NHS that it is an improvement in either therapeutic or cost effectiveness on what they currently use. |
Why do private companies need the data?
I thought Capitalists claimed the profit motive was enough to incentivise innovation on its own? Why do they need state property (our data) to assist them?
If it’s the case that the profit motive isn’t enough, why do we endure private involvement and tax payer money jettisoned into shareholders at all when we can do it for cost ourselves? [Post edited 9 Jun 2021 10:52]
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| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 10:53 - Jun 9 with 879 views | MrSheen |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 10:48 - Jun 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Why do private companies need the data?
I thought Capitalists claimed the profit motive was enough to incentivise innovation on its own? Why do they need state property (our data) to assist them?
If it’s the case that the profit motive isn’t enough, why do we endure private involvement and tax payer money jettisoned into shareholders at all when we can do it for cost ourselves? [Post edited 9 Jun 2021 10:52]
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You might as well ask why drivers need to keep their eyes open. Because more data gives better outcomes.
You seem to equate our data and tax-payers' money with the state, as if we have no separate existence, and we are all state property. [Post edited 9 Jun 2021 10:57]
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| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:14 - Jun 9 with 857 views | dmm |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 10:53 - Jun 9 by MrSheen |
You might as well ask why drivers need to keep their eyes open. Because more data gives better outcomes.
You seem to equate our data and tax-payers' money with the state, as if we have no separate existence, and we are all state property. [Post edited 9 Jun 2021 10:57]
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Tax payers' taxes obviously belongs to the state, although I'd personally love more say in how it's spent.
Personal data clearly doesn't belong to the state, but this present UK one wants to have it. Although the top line purposes for this data collection may appear good in themselves, the potential for misuse is apparent and, like many, I simply do not trust this Govt. |  | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:19 - Jun 9 with 850 views | loftupper |
It will be interesting to see how UK GDPR evolves and whether it is watered down over the coming months and years post brexit. It was certainly something Cummings was very interested in while he was involved with government | | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:28 - Jun 9 with 836 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 10:53 - Jun 9 by MrSheen |
You might as well ask why drivers need to keep their eyes open. Because more data gives better outcomes.
You seem to equate our data and tax-payers' money with the state, as if we have no separate existence, and we are all state property. [Post edited 9 Jun 2021 10:57]
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I know more data brings us better outcomes. Not disputed. That analogy is a bit strained though!
I'm asking the bigger question, why involve private companies at all if they need the state and provision of data to do the job the most effective way?
Why can't the state (who answer to the public and not shareholders) do the same job cheaper? If your answer is 'innovation and efficiency ' I dispute that as above. | | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:32 - Jun 9 with 810 views | BucksRanger |
When was the last time the state ever answered to the public?
Poll Tax perhaps? Brexit, but they had to be dragged towards that kicking and screaming. [Post edited 9 Jun 2021 11:33]
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| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:38 - Jun 9 with 806 views | SheffieldHoop |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 10:08 - Jun 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
A slight tangent, but Macmillan shouldn’t exist.
Charity is a failure of state. |
Macmillan was around before the NHS
Macmillan has every right to exist
The work they do is vital | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:45 - Jun 9 with 788 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:38 - Jun 9 by SheffieldHoop |
Macmillan was around before the NHS
Macmillan has every right to exist
The work they do is vital |
1) Not saying they wasn't
2) Not saying they don't
3) Can't agree more. They have looked after many of my friends and relatives.
Let me be more specific, the NEED for McMillan shouldn't exist in the 6th richest nation in the world. | | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:47 - Jun 9 with 785 views | MrSheen |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:28 - Jun 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I know more data brings us better outcomes. Not disputed. That analogy is a bit strained though!
I'm asking the bigger question, why involve private companies at all if they need the state and provision of data to do the job the most effective way?
Why can't the state (who answer to the public and not shareholders) do the same job cheaper? If your answer is 'innovation and efficiency ' I dispute that as above. |
The state is by far the biggest medical service provider, naturally they will be collecting the health data. Drug companies don't know who takes their drugs and for what reason, implant makers don't know where their bits end up (yet!). They are going to make better products if they know who is using what, why and with what effect. The NHS knows they can get better outcomes if they do. If they refuse to make it available, they are preventing this. | | | |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:49 - Jun 9 with 777 views | SheffieldHoop |
| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:45 - Jun 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
1) Not saying they wasn't
2) Not saying they don't
3) Can't agree more. They have looked after many of my friends and relatives.
Let me be more specific, the NEED for McMillan shouldn't exist in the 6th richest nation in the world. |
1) You didn't mention that they were either
2) You said they shouldn't
3) Same, so pretty surprised that you came out with that, but whatever | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| NHS records being sold to commercial companies on 11:52 - Jun 9 with 769 views | BklynRanger |
This also risks (but probably too late) getting dragged into a private v public debate. I know that's comfortable ground for many, but better data will be used by... wait for it.... The NHS!
There are all sorts of moves towards regional integrated care systems and provider collaboratives that need a better idea of needs and trends in their area at multiple levels - without it they're in even greater danger of... wasting taxpayers money!.... |  | | |
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