| England vs Germany match thread 09:19 - Jun 27 with 22288 views | traininvain |
I know it’s a bit early but let’s have your England starting 11’s and see if anyone gets it right. I’ll go first:
Pickford
James
Walker
Stones
Maguire
Shaw
Bellingham
Rice
Sterling
Kane
Saka
[Post edited 27 Jun 2021 9:19]
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| England vs Germany match thread on 11:34 - Jun 30 with 1386 views | dannyblue |
This is not a well-oiled machine purring.
Our ability to move the ball forward is poor, either direct or through the thirds.
I think that stems from Rice and Phillips. Neither seem to me to be natural midfielders. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're bad players. But neither would back themselves for a 40 yard pass, neither instinctively moves a few metres back or forward to make an angle, and neither is confident playing passes first time round the corner. Contrast with Spanish or Croatian midfielders like Busquets or Modric.
Phillips's energy has been great, but it's not disciplined, and it doesn't seem to be part of a team plan but just a natural expression of enthusiasm. Rice is too deep when we're building from the back. What's the point of Pickford passing to Stones passing to Rice without moving or bypassing an opponent at all.
Henderson, if fit, would improve this team. What they really need, like most teams, is the equivalent of a Faurlin to keep it ticking and to keep the ball moving. That plus Kane coming towards the ball, and Sterling etc. spinning beyond.
But these clean sheets are wonderful, and it's good to know that we can get better as we go. |  | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 11:42 - Jun 30 with 1350 views | TheChef |
| England vs Germany match thread on 11:34 - Jun 30 by dannyblue |
This is not a well-oiled machine purring.
Our ability to move the ball forward is poor, either direct or through the thirds.
I think that stems from Rice and Phillips. Neither seem to me to be natural midfielders. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're bad players. But neither would back themselves for a 40 yard pass, neither instinctively moves a few metres back or forward to make an angle, and neither is confident playing passes first time round the corner. Contrast with Spanish or Croatian midfielders like Busquets or Modric.
Phillips's energy has been great, but it's not disciplined, and it doesn't seem to be part of a team plan but just a natural expression of enthusiasm. Rice is too deep when we're building from the back. What's the point of Pickford passing to Stones passing to Rice without moving or bypassing an opponent at all.
Henderson, if fit, would improve this team. What they really need, like most teams, is the equivalent of a Faurlin to keep it ticking and to keep the ball moving. That plus Kane coming towards the ball, and Sterling etc. spinning beyond.
But these clean sheets are wonderful, and it's good to know that we can get better as we go. |
Excellent points. I've not been overly convinced by them so far and in the first half yesterday the Germany midfield did a bit of a number on them. But as mentioned once we moved the ball quicker out to the wings we looked better. And ultimately we are yet to concede.
It's a marathon not a sprint and let's hope we can peak at the right time. |  |
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| England vs Germany match thread on 11:45 - Jun 30 with 1325 views | MrSheen |
| England vs Germany match thread on 11:34 - Jun 30 by dannyblue |
This is not a well-oiled machine purring.
Our ability to move the ball forward is poor, either direct or through the thirds.
I think that stems from Rice and Phillips. Neither seem to me to be natural midfielders. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're bad players. But neither would back themselves for a 40 yard pass, neither instinctively moves a few metres back or forward to make an angle, and neither is confident playing passes first time round the corner. Contrast with Spanish or Croatian midfielders like Busquets or Modric.
Phillips's energy has been great, but it's not disciplined, and it doesn't seem to be part of a team plan but just a natural expression of enthusiasm. Rice is too deep when we're building from the back. What's the point of Pickford passing to Stones passing to Rice without moving or bypassing an opponent at all.
Henderson, if fit, would improve this team. What they really need, like most teams, is the equivalent of a Faurlin to keep it ticking and to keep the ball moving. That plus Kane coming towards the ball, and Sterling etc. spinning beyond.
But these clean sheets are wonderful, and it's good to know that we can get better as we go. |
It may be because he plays deeper than Phillips, but Rice seems to be more responsible for slowing up play. Understandably perhaps in that role, he concentrates on ensuring control before looking for the pass. By the time he looks up, the best option is to go back as other opportunities have been closed. Better he does that than risk playing it blind, we don’t want him thinking he’s Modric, but it would be nice to have a better option there if this is how we are playing. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 11:46]
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| England vs Germany match thread on 11:59 - Jun 30 with 1283 views | DieByYourSide |
The ends justify the means. |  |
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| England vs Germany match thread on 12:00 - Jun 30 with 1281 views | kensalriser |
You jump in a taxi and tell the driver you need to get to the airport in under an hour otherwise you're going to miss your flight.
Driver puts his foot down and makes it in 45 mins.
As you get out, instead of thanking him and bounding off joyfully you critique his driving and point out where you think he could do better. |  |
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| England vs Germany match thread on 12:06 - Jun 30 with 1269 views | rsonist |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:00 - Jun 30 by kensalriser |
You jump in a taxi and tell the driver you need to get to the airport in under an hour otherwise you're going to miss your flight.
Driver puts his foot down and makes it in 45 mins.
As you get out, instead of thanking him and bounding off joyfully you critique his driving and point out where you think he could do better. |
Weird to be like this when we've just watched a whole season proving how results on fine margins can distort perception. |  | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:15 - Jun 30 with 1248 views | willis1980 |
| England vs Germany match thread on 20:39 - Jun 29 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Don't understand why Germany kept Low on after they got spanked by Spain. They should have got Flick in for this tournament as Low was a busted flush.
You've got to fancy England to get to the final now but Denmark impressed me against Wales and they're playing for Eriksen.
England's football team taking a leaf out of the cricket team and taking players from Ireland to make them competitive.  |
its just not really how things are done in german football. whereas they seem to wait a lifetime to sack failing managers even at club level in england i feel like they do so too quickly on some occassions. | | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:17 - Jun 30 with 1239 views | BazzeR |
With both Rice and Phillips receiving yellow cards it may pave the way for a new pairing of Bellingham and Henderson in the Ukraine game.
The slate is wiped clean after the Q/Final matches. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 12:24]
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| England vs Germany match thread on 12:18 - Jun 30 with 1236 views | Juzzie |
Whilst pace is definitely key, they can't play at 100mph for 90 minutes so as a team they have to decide when is the right time. If you give it a go and it doesn't pay off you can't keep going again seconds later. Sometimes you have to wait, be patient, keep possession etc then go again otherwise you'll be knacked long before the game is over. |  | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:24 - Jun 30 with 1199 views | Rog |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:17 - Jun 30 by BazzeR |
With both Rice and Phillips receiving yellow cards it may pave the way for a new pairing of Bellingham and Henderson in the Ukraine game.
The slate is wiped clean after the Q/Final matches. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 12:24]
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I believe I heard that yellows are wiped out after next round. They're fine to carry on. | | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:24 - Jun 30 with 1198 views | rsonist |
| England vs Germany match thread on 11:34 - Jun 30 by dannyblue |
This is not a well-oiled machine purring.
Our ability to move the ball forward is poor, either direct or through the thirds.
I think that stems from Rice and Phillips. Neither seem to me to be natural midfielders. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're bad players. But neither would back themselves for a 40 yard pass, neither instinctively moves a few metres back or forward to make an angle, and neither is confident playing passes first time round the corner. Contrast with Spanish or Croatian midfielders like Busquets or Modric.
Phillips's energy has been great, but it's not disciplined, and it doesn't seem to be part of a team plan but just a natural expression of enthusiasm. Rice is too deep when we're building from the back. What's the point of Pickford passing to Stones passing to Rice without moving or bypassing an opponent at all.
Henderson, if fit, would improve this team. What they really need, like most teams, is the equivalent of a Faurlin to keep it ticking and to keep the ball moving. That plus Kane coming towards the ball, and Sterling etc. spinning beyond.
But these clean sheets are wonderful, and it's good to know that we can get better as we go. |
I can't agree with framing it in terms of deficiency in the players. Rice and Phillips are perfectly capable of playing progressively and given permission were a lot more fluid against the Czechs.
End of the day, it's a tough balance Southgate has to find and he's navigating it alright so far. But calling it a triumphant catenaccio masterplan is just as silly as calling him an idiot for not playing a banter XI and telling them to go out and have fun. | | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:45 - Jun 30 with 1146 views | robith |
| England vs Germany match thread on 11:34 - Jun 30 by dannyblue |
This is not a well-oiled machine purring.
Our ability to move the ball forward is poor, either direct or through the thirds.
I think that stems from Rice and Phillips. Neither seem to me to be natural midfielders. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're bad players. But neither would back themselves for a 40 yard pass, neither instinctively moves a few metres back or forward to make an angle, and neither is confident playing passes first time round the corner. Contrast with Spanish or Croatian midfielders like Busquets or Modric.
Phillips's energy has been great, but it's not disciplined, and it doesn't seem to be part of a team plan but just a natural expression of enthusiasm. Rice is too deep when we're building from the back. What's the point of Pickford passing to Stones passing to Rice without moving or bypassing an opponent at all.
Henderson, if fit, would improve this team. What they really need, like most teams, is the equivalent of a Faurlin to keep it ticking and to keep the ball moving. That plus Kane coming towards the ball, and Sterling etc. spinning beyond.
But these clean sheets are wonderful, and it's good to know that we can get better as we go. |
I thought Rice was all over the place yesterday, but he also got booked very early so hard to know the effect that had |  | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:47 - Jun 30 with 1132 views | gazza1 |
I thought we would win against the German - fact (we have a very good team of players - well decent & better than we have had for many years), the game came alight when Grealish entered the affray. I still do not understand why Southgate doesn't start him more and I doubt if many on the MB knows why either. He makes very strange decisions, why would you play a right footed at LB when you got the likes of Chilwell and Shaw like he did against Croatia??
Despite Southgate's limitations (sorry Antti I know it goes against the trend again) I think there is some good in the man - it appears that we have a great team spirit in the camp, they love each other!! Most important to be that way, I think he has an exceptional bond with the team, even with Grealish probably, he has got a good team of advisors/coaches with him. The England set up is 100% together and that is important.
I just wish that he would change a few things but, I suppose, the bottom line is that we are in the Q/F, not conceded and the players seem to be a most confident and vibrant squad.....so fair play to them all. | | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:49 - Jun 30 with 1132 views | danehoop |
I think Southgate has played a team each time that has been well drilled, disciplined and followed his plan for each game. Against Germany it was clear the intention was to keep it tight and then build from the bench to add more pace and guile in final 30 minutes.
Southgate's greatest strength at the moment is that he has a really strong bench to bring on very different options to change a game. His biggest challenge in some respects is how he uses the squad effectively through each of the tournament so that his key players are sufficiently rested. He has managed that well with defence and midfield so far, I think he has done OK with the strikers, but perhaps kept Kane on a little more than I'd expected.
Against Ukraine there is genuine pace in that side and a very good and in form set of strikers. I suspect that they will be happier playing a seemingly solid, but unspectacular England, over a Germany side with arguably greater individual quality/experience. I still think England will overcome Ukraine, but it wont be comfortable and you can be sure that Southgate and his very strong support team (not talked about, but key to his success) will be careful in their planning for a potentially tricky opponent.
Providing England overcome Ukraine, I think the semi final against either the Czechs or the Danes will be much greater challenges. Both have real pace and skill, with the ability to score from all over the team and will be feeling hugely confident against a comparatively less mobile/flexible England. The difference is again the depth of squad available to those sides. Injuries/suspensions to any of the first team will expose that there is less quality and experience in their squads. But i'd worry about either of those teams (especially the Danes obviously). |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| England vs Germany match thread on 12:50 - Jun 30 with 1131 views | BazzeR |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:24 - Jun 30 by Rog |
I believe I heard that yellows are wiped out after next round. They're fine to carry on. |
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| England vs Germany match thread on 12:51 - Jun 30 with 1127 views | daveB |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:47 - Jun 30 by gazza1 |
I thought we would win against the German - fact (we have a very good team of players - well decent & better than we have had for many years), the game came alight when Grealish entered the affray. I still do not understand why Southgate doesn't start him more and I doubt if many on the MB knows why either. He makes very strange decisions, why would you play a right footed at LB when you got the likes of Chilwell and Shaw like he did against Croatia??
Despite Southgate's limitations (sorry Antti I know it goes against the trend again) I think there is some good in the man - it appears that we have a great team spirit in the camp, they love each other!! Most important to be that way, I think he has an exceptional bond with the team, even with Grealish probably, he has got a good team of advisors/coaches with him. The England set up is 100% together and that is important.
I just wish that he would change a few things but, I suppose, the bottom line is that we are in the Q/F, not conceded and the players seem to be a most confident and vibrant squad.....so fair play to them all. |
He wanted pace out wide which is why he went for Saka and Sterling but Germany defended very well meaning Grealish coming on changed the game. I don't think he'd have had the same impact if he had started
Thought Tripper at left back adding in experience against Croatia was a good move as well. |  | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:56 - Jun 30 with 1113 views | Phildo |
i thought Phillips could easily have got a red for his reducer |  | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:59 - Jun 30 with 1103 views | dannyblue |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:24 - Jun 30 by rsonist |
I can't agree with framing it in terms of deficiency in the players. Rice and Phillips are perfectly capable of playing progressively and given permission were a lot more fluid against the Czechs.
End of the day, it's a tough balance Southgate has to find and he's navigating it alright so far. But calling it a triumphant catenaccio masterplan is just as silly as calling him an idiot for not playing a banter XI and telling them to go out and have fun. |
Not a deficiency of the players, no. But there's something not quite clicking in the midfield that's a combination of attributes, role, system, and form.
(perceptive west ham season ticket holder friend says Rice has not been playing to his standard in the euros, and they're glad because they want to keep him)
And I only say not clicking in terms of my vision of the beautiful game. This could be clicking well enough to win the thing. | | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 13:14 - Jun 30 with 1051 views | Juzzie |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:47 - Jun 30 by gazza1 |
I thought we would win against the German - fact (we have a very good team of players - well decent & better than we have had for many years), the game came alight when Grealish entered the affray. I still do not understand why Southgate doesn't start him more and I doubt if many on the MB knows why either. He makes very strange decisions, why would you play a right footed at LB when you got the likes of Chilwell and Shaw like he did against Croatia??
Despite Southgate's limitations (sorry Antti I know it goes against the trend again) I think there is some good in the man - it appears that we have a great team spirit in the camp, they love each other!! Most important to be that way, I think he has an exceptional bond with the team, even with Grealish probably, he has got a good team of advisors/coaches with him. The England set up is 100% together and that is important.
I just wish that he would change a few things but, I suppose, the bottom line is that we are in the Q/F, not conceded and the players seem to be a most confident and vibrant squad.....so fair play to them all. |
I don't think Grealish can do 90 mins at the moment, someone alluded elsewhere he's carrying a knock so if that is indeed the case, I think you can go one of two ways;
- Play him from the start and hope we get at least one or two goals in the bag before he's subbed
- Keep him on the bench and see how the game pans out and if needed (i.e. drawing or behind) bring him on to make a positive impact with a fresh pair of legs in the last 20-30 mins.
Last night he chose the latter and he succeeded.
Both options have no guarantee's of success (as with any team selection, formation or whether it's Sunday League or International's) but Managers succeed or fail based on their choices and player's ability to carry it out.
As they say, you're only as good as your next game. Roll on Saturday!
[Post edited 30 Jun 2021 13:15]
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| England vs Germany match thread on 13:24 - Jun 30 with 1015 views | Match82 |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:47 - Jun 30 by gazza1 |
I thought we would win against the German - fact (we have a very good team of players - well decent & better than we have had for many years), the game came alight when Grealish entered the affray. I still do not understand why Southgate doesn't start him more and I doubt if many on the MB knows why either. He makes very strange decisions, why would you play a right footed at LB when you got the likes of Chilwell and Shaw like he did against Croatia??
Despite Southgate's limitations (sorry Antti I know it goes against the trend again) I think there is some good in the man - it appears that we have a great team spirit in the camp, they love each other!! Most important to be that way, I think he has an exceptional bond with the team, even with Grealish probably, he has got a good team of advisors/coaches with him. The England set up is 100% together and that is important.
I just wish that he would change a few things but, I suppose, the bottom line is that we are in the Q/F, not conceded and the players seem to be a most confident and vibrant squad.....so fair play to them all. |
I actually see the wisdom in going with Sako and Sterling against Germany because their defence is slow. I expect him to start Grealish against Ukraine and think he would have done that anyway even before he huge contribution that Grealish made coming on. I wouldn't have gone with the two defensive midfielders personally but have to credit the man for getting the result. |  | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 13:37 - Jun 30 with 994 views | Jeff |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:47 - Jun 30 by gazza1 |
I thought we would win against the German - fact (we have a very good team of players - well decent & better than we have had for many years), the game came alight when Grealish entered the affray. I still do not understand why Southgate doesn't start him more and I doubt if many on the MB knows why either. He makes very strange decisions, why would you play a right footed at LB when you got the likes of Chilwell and Shaw like he did against Croatia??
Despite Southgate's limitations (sorry Antti I know it goes against the trend again) I think there is some good in the man - it appears that we have a great team spirit in the camp, they love each other!! Most important to be that way, I think he has an exceptional bond with the team, even with Grealish probably, he has got a good team of advisors/coaches with him. The England set up is 100% together and that is important.
I just wish that he would change a few things but, I suppose, the bottom line is that we are in the Q/F, not conceded and the players seem to be a most confident and vibrant squad.....so fair play to them all. |
on this very specific point:
why would you play a right footed at LB when you got the likes of Chilwell and Shaw like he did against Croatia??
This was dissected fairly thoroughly after the game. Mings was playing as the LCB, and he is inexperienced, so Southgate wanted an experienced, and more defensively minded LB to support, coach and ensure that Mings wasn't caught out or left exposed. Neither Shaw or Chilwell have either the experience or defensive nous that Trippier has. |  |
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| England vs Germany match thread on 14:00 - Jun 30 with 941 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England vs Germany match thread on 13:37 - Jun 30 by Jeff |
on this very specific point:
why would you play a right footed at LB when you got the likes of Chilwell and Shaw like he did against Croatia??
This was dissected fairly thoroughly after the game. Mings was playing as the LCB, and he is inexperienced, so Southgate wanted an experienced, and more defensively minded LB to support, coach and ensure that Mings wasn't caught out or left exposed. Neither Shaw or Chilwell have either the experience or defensive nous that Trippier has. |
Also their right winger was left footed and dangerous, and playing a right footed left back meant the tackling foot is always going to be in a better position.
He played well and we stopped them scoring. What more do these people want? We’ve cleaned sheeted our way to a QF. |  | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 14:33 - Jun 30 with 871 views | francisbowles |
| England vs Germany match thread on 12:50 - Jun 30 by BazzeR |
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Actually your not Baz.
Who is a booking away from missing the semi-finals?
Belgium: Alderweireld, Thorgan Hazard, Vermaelen
Czech Republic: Coufal, Hložek, Masopust
Denmark: Damsgaard, Delaney, Jensen, Wass
England: Foden, Maguire, Phillips, Rice
Italy: Barella, Di Lorenzo, Pessina
Spain: Jordi Alba, Busquets, Rodri, Pau Torres
Switzerland: Akanji, Elvedi, Embolo, Gavranović, Mbabu, RodrÃguez, Schär
Ukraine: Dovbyk, Yarmolenko, Shaparenko, Sydorchuk
If any of our four were to get booked in the QF they would miss the SF (if we may it) | | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 14:48 - Jun 30 with 840 views | BazzeR |
| England vs Germany match thread on 14:33 - Jun 30 by francisbowles |
Actually your not Baz.
Who is a booking away from missing the semi-finals?
Belgium: Alderweireld, Thorgan Hazard, Vermaelen
Czech Republic: Coufal, Hložek, Masopust
Denmark: Damsgaard, Delaney, Jensen, Wass
England: Foden, Maguire, Phillips, Rice
Italy: Barella, Di Lorenzo, Pessina
Spain: Jordi Alba, Busquets, Rodri, Pau Torres
Switzerland: Akanji, Elvedi, Embolo, Gavranović, Mbabu, RodrÃguez, Schär
Ukraine: Dovbyk, Yarmolenko, Shaparenko, Sydorchuk
If any of our four were to get booked in the QF they would miss the SF (if we may it) |
Yes your right Francisbowles..topman🤙 | | | |
| England vs Germany match thread on 15:04 - Jun 30 with 781 views | Boston |
| England vs Germany match thread on 11:59 - Jun 30 by DieByYourSide |
The ends justify the means. |
Y’know, that’s an outlook on life I’ve never been comfortable with. | |
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