| where do we go from here. 01:02 - Sep 26 with 4132 views | qpr_1968 |
3 defeats on the trot.
2 goals per game.....against.
3 at the back still does'nt work.
not saying 4, 4 , 2 does, but warbs must come up with a plan b.
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| where do we go from here. on 01:41 - Sep 26 with 2408 views | ozexile |
IMO It's CM where he needs to look. Ball and Johnsen are constantly getting overun on counter attacks. | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 06:28 - Sep 26 with 2312 views | dmm |
How about continuing with the plan implemented over the last couple of years that's produced a vast improvement and increased prospects? |  | | |
| where do we go from here. on 07:39 - Sep 26 with 2242 views | davman |
I think it's utterly crazy to claim 3 at the back "doesn't work" as there is enough evidence that it does.
They have just got to keep going and hope that this does not disintegrate into what happened pre-Xmas last season, where we played well, but just couldn't buy a win. Not going to look good if we manage not to win either of the next two though... |  |
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| where do we go from here. on 08:10 - Sep 26 with 2196 views | nix |
| where do we go from here. on 01:41 - Sep 26 by ozexile |
IMO It's CM where he needs to look. Ball and Johnsen are constantly getting overun on counter attacks. |
It's this.
Johansen I think has been carrying an injury since the beginning of the season. Not quite bad enough not to play, but it's impeded his ability to really put in his usual shift. We've got two players for each position, which normally should be enough: four for two DCM places (Edit: Dozzell as well but I don't know if he'd be up to speed for our most difficult matches). But losing Amos and Field has pretty much hampered us, and then Johansen has also not been firing at 100%. Ball is a good utility player and someone who you can rely on to work his socks off, but has got limitations compared to Field, Amos and Johansen in his ability to link defence and attack and to really read the game and position himself exactly right and make a good tackle.
Equally we've missed Wallace being able to play left back as McCallum quite rightly needed a few matches to get up to speed, and then when he was really starting to look good, he gets injured. Warbs has tried putting our right backs there, which didn't work and then Barbet there, which also didn't work, both taking him away from his best position and putting him in a place where he was less effective. Also, the fact we didn't have Wallace supporting Chair and Willock and providing an overload down that left side, enabled Furlong to camp out in our left hand side for much of the match, as we couldn't push him back.
All of that plus the fact that we played two teams that play in a way that negates our usual style, Barnsley and West Brom, and WBA after they'd had a break and we hadn't, plus I believe we were genuinely unlucky against Bristol City, I don't think there's enough evidence to tear up something that's been working for us pretty well.
Oh and we wouldn't expect Seny to throw the ball into the net more than once a season (it was a freak, as it hit the back of his hand as he lifted it up to reclaim the ball). He's bailed us out so much he deserves to be given a few free passes a season, and I don't think they'd have scored if that hadn't gone in. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 8:21]
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| where do we go from here. on 08:26 - Sep 26 with 2146 views | gazza1 |
| where do we go from here. on 08:10 - Sep 26 by nix |
It's this.
Johansen I think has been carrying an injury since the beginning of the season. Not quite bad enough not to play, but it's impeded his ability to really put in his usual shift. We've got two players for each position, which normally should be enough: four for two DCM places (Edit: Dozzell as well but I don't know if he'd be up to speed for our most difficult matches). But losing Amos and Field has pretty much hampered us, and then Johansen has also not been firing at 100%. Ball is a good utility player and someone who you can rely on to work his socks off, but has got limitations compared to Field, Amos and Johansen in his ability to link defence and attack and to really read the game and position himself exactly right and make a good tackle.
Equally we've missed Wallace being able to play left back as McCallum quite rightly needed a few matches to get up to speed, and then when he was really starting to look good, he gets injured. Warbs has tried putting our right backs there, which didn't work and then Barbet there, which also didn't work, both taking him away from his best position and putting him in a place where he was less effective. Also, the fact we didn't have Wallace supporting Chair and Willock and providing an overload down that left side, enabled Furlong to camp out in our left hand side for much of the match, as we couldn't push him back.
All of that plus the fact that we played two teams that play in a way that negates our usual style, Barnsley and West Brom, and WBA after they'd had a break and we hadn't, plus I believe we were genuinely unlucky against Bristol City, I don't think there's enough evidence to tear up something that's been working for us pretty well.
Oh and we wouldn't expect Seny to throw the ball into the net more than once a season (it was a freak, as it hit the back of his hand as he lifted it up to reclaim the ball). He's bailed us out so much he deserves to be given a few free passes a season, and I don't think they'd have scored if that hadn't gone in. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 8:21]
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So, its CM that is the problem......Dom Ball is not good enough, apparently, and our problems will be solved when Field returns and SJ is fully fit. Dom Ball does a lot of SJ's running and shutting down which goes unnoticed. We will see but I doubt very much if Field will sort out our midfield as you suggest.
The problem is that we are making too many individual errors - that is plain and simple, look at the defeats. The other issue is that we do not convert enough chances. The forwards are not doing enough - they are getting chances but not scoring. Dykes must have missed 3 very good opportunities against B.City and you cannot do that and expect to win. | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 08:28 - Sep 26 with 2133 views | HAYESBOY |
When you look at the actual games, we have only played poorly IMO once, which was Friday. We were unlucky in the other two. Certainly against Bristol City.
I think we will bounce back soon. Just injuries now starting to make the first team squad a little thin. Need Amos and Field back at 100% soon.
Also need to work out the striker best suited for our play.
IMO we tried to change too much on Friday and get the ball up early to Gray. Worked once in the 1st minute but after that we just hoofed the ball and gave it away. |  |
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| where do we go from here. on 08:33 - Sep 26 with 2117 views | ParkRoyalR |
1) CDM, agree, our lack of pace in this area is a real weakness and I lost count the other night how many shots we failed to close down in this area, again. Amos and / or Field fix as would say Warburton sees Ball as a squad player or an extra deep seating CDM to see the last 10 out.
2) RM, cover for our RWB is key, especially if De Wijs is injured and Moses moves to LWB and Kakay plays RWB, as Kakay needs cover as positional play is poor. Adomah naturally provides this on the right whereas Chair is not an out + out wide player.
3) LWB, McCallum's all-around game (bar his crossing) is better than Wallace's, he covers a lot more ground and can support attacks for full 90 which Wallace can't - we need one of them on the park otherwise I'd move Moses to LWB, play Kakay and drop Chair for Adomah.
4) Dykes is key to our possession based play and is our No1 striker. Gray not match fit + Austin struggles to do the full 90.
If all the above are fit - Plan A should be possession based for first 60mins with Dykes / Willock / Chair and Plan B should be Adomah for Chair with Plan C bringing on the 2nd striker to support Dykes / Willock + Adomah. | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 08:43 - Sep 26 with 2102 views | nix |
| where do we go from here. on 08:26 - Sep 26 by gazza1 |
So, its CM that is the problem......Dom Ball is not good enough, apparently, and our problems will be solved when Field returns and SJ is fully fit. Dom Ball does a lot of SJ's running and shutting down which goes unnoticed. We will see but I doubt very much if Field will sort out our midfield as you suggest.
The problem is that we are making too many individual errors - that is plain and simple, look at the defeats. The other issue is that we do not convert enough chances. The forwards are not doing enough - they are getting chances but not scoring. Dykes must have missed 3 very good opportunities against B.City and you cannot do that and expect to win. |
I didn't say Ball wasn't good enough to play for us, but I personally don't think he's as good as Field. SJ hasn't been firing recently to the extent he was last season. As the division is all small margins those might make a difference.
I agree we've made individual errors but I don't know what you do about that except keep working on it, which I'm sure they do. I don't think Dykes missed three chances from memory although he might not have shot far enough away from the goalie, plus the goalie had a great game after making his own cock up in his previous match - they all do it, even de Gea.
Incidentally Fulham have lost against Reading at home and Blackpool away, and only had one decent win, against Birmingham, so even the best sides have difficult runs, plus they lost their League Cup match against Premier opposition.
My post was about not tearing up our strategy overall, not calling out individuals as I think all of our players have put a massive shift in and we haven't had the greatest of luck from Bournemouth onwards. | | | |
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| where do we go from here. on 08:43 - Sep 26 with 2099 views | gazza1 |
| where do we go from here. on 08:33 - Sep 26 by ParkRoyalR |
1) CDM, agree, our lack of pace in this area is a real weakness and I lost count the other night how many shots we failed to close down in this area, again. Amos and / or Field fix as would say Warburton sees Ball as a squad player or an extra deep seating CDM to see the last 10 out.
2) RM, cover for our RWB is key, especially if De Wijs is injured and Moses moves to LWB and Kakay plays RWB, as Kakay needs cover as positional play is poor. Adomah naturally provides this on the right whereas Chair is not an out + out wide player.
3) LWB, McCallum's all-around game (bar his crossing) is better than Wallace's, he covers a lot more ground and can support attacks for full 90 which Wallace can't - we need one of them on the park otherwise I'd move Moses to LWB, play Kakay and drop Chair for Adomah.
4) Dykes is key to our possession based play and is our No1 striker. Gray not match fit + Austin struggles to do the full 90.
If all the above are fit - Plan A should be possession based for first 60mins with Dykes / Willock / Chair and Plan B should be Adomah for Chair with Plan C bringing on the 2nd striker to support Dykes / Willock + Adomah. |
All of those points are wrong, plain and simple wrong. | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 08:51 - Sep 26 with 2079 views | nix |
| where do we go from here. on 08:33 - Sep 26 by ParkRoyalR |
1) CDM, agree, our lack of pace in this area is a real weakness and I lost count the other night how many shots we failed to close down in this area, again. Amos and / or Field fix as would say Warburton sees Ball as a squad player or an extra deep seating CDM to see the last 10 out.
2) RM, cover for our RWB is key, especially if De Wijs is injured and Moses moves to LWB and Kakay plays RWB, as Kakay needs cover as positional play is poor. Adomah naturally provides this on the right whereas Chair is not an out + out wide player.
3) LWB, McCallum's all-around game (bar his crossing) is better than Wallace's, he covers a lot more ground and can support attacks for full 90 which Wallace can't - we need one of them on the park otherwise I'd move Moses to LWB, play Kakay and drop Chair for Adomah.
4) Dykes is key to our possession based play and is our No1 striker. Gray not match fit + Austin struggles to do the full 90.
If all the above are fit - Plan A should be possession based for first 60mins with Dykes / Willock / Chair and Plan B should be Adomah for Chair with Plan C bringing on the 2nd striker to support Dykes / Willock + Adomah. |
I'm not sure about 3j in terms of Moses as leftback but it's worth a go. I can see why he doesn't want to lose the Chair/Willock creative hub but it's worth a go.
Gray was a good idea in theory for WBA as our goal demonstrated. He did get caught out offside a couple of times though and we weren't getting enough quality possession in midfield to really exploit his ability to make those runs. Generally I agree that Dykes is important although we keep losing him after being flogged to death in international games. CA can turn the game if he's on song but can't keep playing 90 minutes consistently.
Good post. | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 08:54 - Sep 26 with 2065 views | easthertsr |
Just looked at our fixtures between now and Christmas. Apart from the Rupert's away they look pretty good. Bournemouth and West Brom in successive away games is a pretty brutal task, let's see where we are at the New Year! Now's the time to hold our nerves and get right behind the team and the manager, a couple of wins this week and things will look very different! | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 09:00 - Sep 26 with 2045 views | dmm |
As some have previously pointed out regarding Friday's game, our CM was often missed out due to going long to Gray. In that respect, our midfield didn't do too well because they had less of the ball.
And why, with the conspicuous change of style on Friday, and numerous in-game tweaks to formation and tactics in previous matches, does the myth persist that Warburton doesn't have a plan B? | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 09:00 - Sep 26 with 2041 views | stevec |
To be honest I can’t ever see a situation where a Warburton side won’t be bullied out of a result. He’s nice, the teams nice. If a team like Everton turns up for a game of football we’ve got every chance of winning, when the anti football teams show up, we probably haven’t.
Watching WBA, outside of our back three, it was like watching one of those Attenborough documentaries, where lions seek out wildebeest. |  | | |
| where do we go from here. on 09:06 - Sep 26 with 2030 views | gazza1 |
| where do we go from here. on 08:43 - Sep 26 by nix |
I didn't say Ball wasn't good enough to play for us, but I personally don't think he's as good as Field. SJ hasn't been firing recently to the extent he was last season. As the division is all small margins those might make a difference.
I agree we've made individual errors but I don't know what you do about that except keep working on it, which I'm sure they do. I don't think Dykes missed three chances from memory although he might not have shot far enough away from the goalie, plus the goalie had a great game after making his own cock up in his previous match - they all do it, even de Gea.
Incidentally Fulham have lost against Reading at home and Blackpool away, and only had one decent win, against Birmingham, so even the best sides have difficult runs, plus they lost their League Cup match against Premier opposition.
My post was about not tearing up our strategy overall, not calling out individuals as I think all of our players have put a massive shift in and we haven't had the greatest of luck from Bournemouth onwards. |
One of your points is that you think Ball should not be starting....that is, in effect, means you think he is not good enough and Field will be the 'answer'. Nothing to say that SJ would be a major help to Ball if he was doing more.....just lets get Field into the team to replace Ball. That is basically what you are saying.
I do not concur and I am not sure that Field is any better than Ball in what ball does for the team....and certainly be under a lot of pressure if, as has been suggested, that SJ is carrying a knock.
Dykes should have put us 'out of sight' against Bristol.....he missed some sitters. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 9:11]
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| where do we go from here. on 09:16 - Sep 26 with 1998 views | Hastings_Hoops |
Keep calm and carry on.
We lost away at two teams who will likely finish in top four.
A freak result against Bristol (plain hard luck / wasteful finishing) & nothing wrong with the defence or midfield there.
In between that, we drew with a top 10 prem league team, to prove that the pre-season successes against Man United and Leicester have some weight.
Stay calm. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 9:18]
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| where do we go from here. on 09:42 - Sep 26 with 1932 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
Hopefully Amos plays on Tuesday. Six points this week and we can put the last week behind us. | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 09:43 - Sep 26 with 1929 views | BazzeR |
To stop selecting players in the first Eleven that are clearly carrying injuries and more often than not unable to complete the Ninety mins.
It not only disrupts the team having to readjust but also severely limits options off the bench.
It’s all well and good saying stick with Three C/Bs and Two W/Bs but if some are injured I.e Jordy,Wallace and McCallum then it’s plainly not possible with the current squad.
Even with our supposed first Eleven fit it could be said the current formation is becoming predictable to Championship clubs and wildly unbalanced down our right side. | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 09:51 - Sep 26 with 1908 views | nix |
| where do we go from here. on 09:06 - Sep 26 by gazza1 |
One of your points is that you think Ball should not be starting....that is, in effect, means you think he is not good enough and Field will be the 'answer'. Nothing to say that SJ would be a major help to Ball if he was doing more.....just lets get Field into the team to replace Ball. That is basically what you are saying.
I do not concur and I am not sure that Field is any better than Ball in what ball does for the team....and certainly be under a lot of pressure if, as has been suggested, that SJ is carrying a knock.
Dykes should have put us 'out of sight' against Bristol.....he missed some sitters. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 9:11]
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I literally did not say that Ball shouldn't be starting. In my personal opinion, Field is an upgrade in that position. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ever start Ball in that position, it's horses for courses, and it's a squad game and Warbs has been without two of his quality CDMs for much of this season. I think that makes a difference. Don't turn that into me having some kind of witch hunt against Ball. Stop putting words in peoples mouths, it's tiresome. You might need to have a bunfight every week, I don't. Other people can disagree without having to be so antagonistic.
As for Dykes, he only had one shot off target in that match, and his goal conversion stats are as good as many strikers in the division, including Mitrovic, Karlan Grant, Harry Wilson etc. He might have done better in that game but I'm not singling him out as other people made mistakes in that game, and the goalie made some excellent saves. | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 10:09 - Sep 26 with 1847 views | gazza1 |
| where do we go from here. on 09:51 - Sep 26 by nix |
I literally did not say that Ball shouldn't be starting. In my personal opinion, Field is an upgrade in that position. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ever start Ball in that position, it's horses for courses, and it's a squad game and Warbs has been without two of his quality CDMs for much of this season. I think that makes a difference. Don't turn that into me having some kind of witch hunt against Ball. Stop putting words in peoples mouths, it's tiresome. You might need to have a bunfight every week, I don't. Other people can disagree without having to be so antagonistic.
As for Dykes, he only had one shot off target in that match, and his goal conversion stats are as good as many strikers in the division, including Mitrovic, Karlan Grant, Harry Wilson etc. He might have done better in that game but I'm not singling him out as other people made mistakes in that game, and the goalie made some excellent saves. |
Just say what you mean....and stop 'fudging it' That is what you are doing and trying to 'wiggle' out of it. I have not got a problem with that view that you think Field is the 'answer' but I do not agree with it. I think Ball deserves his right to start as frequently as he does. Field will need to prove himself to me before he gets into the side ahead of Ball but others, like you, appear to have your mind set already. Wrong, in my opinion, when Ball is doing very well but unnoticed by many.
As for Dykes, excuses, excuses, excuses....that is all you have got. Stand up and be counted, he missed sitters against Bristol which would have sealed the points before Wells netted the winner. If you don't think that then you are wrong once again. | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 10:10 - Sep 26 with 1843 views | ted_hendrix |
Lets not just assume that the next two home games are winnable, they are equally just as likely to kick us in the nuts.
There isn't an easy game in this league and that's a fact.
We've got a good squad of players and a good Manager to go with them, unfortunately though the recent three league games have found us 'pissing in the wind'.
Talk of the play offs at the moment is futile, we're just about hanging onto 10th place and that's where our results dictate where we should be.
Not being negative just facing facts, our last 9 league results both good and bad are history. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| where do we go from here. on 10:11 - Sep 26 with 1843 views | BrianMcCarthy |
...is it down to the lake, I fear? |  |
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| where do we go from here. on 10:15 - Sep 26 with 1824 views | ozexile |
| where do we go from here. on 09:51 - Sep 26 by nix |
I literally did not say that Ball shouldn't be starting. In my personal opinion, Field is an upgrade in that position. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ever start Ball in that position, it's horses for courses, and it's a squad game and Warbs has been without two of his quality CDMs for much of this season. I think that makes a difference. Don't turn that into me having some kind of witch hunt against Ball. Stop putting words in peoples mouths, it's tiresome. You might need to have a bunfight every week, I don't. Other people can disagree without having to be so antagonistic.
As for Dykes, he only had one shot off target in that match, and his goal conversion stats are as good as many strikers in the division, including Mitrovic, Karlan Grant, Harry Wilson etc. He might have done better in that game but I'm not singling him out as other people made mistakes in that game, and the goalie made some excellent saves. |
I have no problem with the system or personnel. From what I saw on Friday night we seemed to be more of a 3-0-7 rather than a 3-5-2. Which is great when you're in possession, not so much when you lose the ball. Again before I'm hung at dawn this is just my opinion. | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 10:17 - Sep 26 with 1809 views | themodfather |
we are playing well and creating, at some poin t we convert chances to goals and will win games, we have recently played the top teams, matched them and narrowly lost, when we play other teams hopefully we will be too strong for them and win pts. keep the faith. | | | |
| where do we go from here. on 10:23 - Sep 26 with 1785 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| where do we go from here. on 10:15 - Sep 26 by ozexile |
I have no problem with the system or personnel. From what I saw on Friday night we seemed to be more of a 3-0-7 rather than a 3-5-2. Which is great when you're in possession, not so much when you lose the ball. Again before I'm hung at dawn this is just my opinion. |
Agree, oz. That's how I saw it as well. I thought our starting tactics clearly worked, but as the game went on, and with our subs in particular I think we abandoned midfield, which rarely seems to work for us. | |
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| where do we go from here. on 10:26 - Sep 26 with 1768 views | nix |
| where do we go from here. on 10:10 - Sep 26 by ted_hendrix |
Lets not just assume that the next two home games are winnable, they are equally just as likely to kick us in the nuts.
There isn't an easy game in this league and that's a fact.
We've got a good squad of players and a good Manager to go with them, unfortunately though the recent three league games have found us 'pissing in the wind'.
Talk of the play offs at the moment is futile, we're just about hanging onto 10th place and that's where our results dictate where we should be.
Not being negative just facing facts, our last 9 league results both good and bad are history. |
Talk of the play offs early in the season might have backfired with our fans, as they're maybe a bit more disappointed than normal at losing away to two of the promotion favourites.
The fact that the media have got on board with this hasn't helped either.
I can see why managers parrot the, 'take each game as it comes' mantra.
It's a tough division and we'd arguably be punching above our weight to even make the playoffs, from a financial perspective. Maybe it would be a good idea to adjust our expectations and just enjoy the wins when they come, and the way we're playing when they don't, and don't even worry about it until well after Christmas depending on where we are then. | | | |
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