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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? 11:06 - Sep 30 with 28878 viewssaxbend

I have some money sitting in a savings account that does very little except act as a place for my other savings account to empty into annually. I would like to invest it into something a bit more interesting and I am very tempted to believe that the Bond for the new training ground could be it.

So for those of you who've done this sort of thing before (or do it often), what do you think?
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 09:40 - Oct 1 with 3542 viewsdannyblue

My primary concerns, repeating some things others have said, are:

1. What are the tax implications of the 3%? I don't want to have to be filling in forms to pay income tax on a credit for my season ticket.

2. The 25% bonus - is it 25% of the value of the bonds I've bought, or a 25% bonus on the interest rate? I assume the former but they haven't been clear about it. Is it paid on promotion or at the end of the term?

3. Who would I actually be buying a bond from?

4. 5% looks good now, but might not look good in a couple of years.

5. Perhaps the way to look at this is a free(ish) gamble on promotion in 5 years where I'm likely to get my stake back, plus a little interest for my troubles...
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:01 - Oct 1 with 3345 viewsgazza1

I have received and I quote 'Your exclusive invitation from Amit Bhatia, Chairman of QPR' with regards to this bond.......which I have accepted.
[Post edited 1 Oct 2021 13:02]
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:47 - Oct 1 with 3278 viewsPinnerPaul

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 19:28 - Sep 30 by stevec

Never mix business with pleasure.

The figures are enticing without doubt, especially the promotion bonus, but you’d at least want the investment secured against the training ground which I suspect will not be the case.

It looks like the sort of investment you might spend the next five years sweating on whether you’ll see a penny of it back. If you can live with that fair enough, but life’s too short.

I’ve had business dealings with the club albeit over 25 years ago and it wasn’t a pleasant experience. Got out without getting my fingers burned and enough of a lesson to dodge the share issue, thank god.

Whatever you do, do the due diligence.


Well as the promised 5% + 3% rates are to be paid after 1 year, you won't need to wait 5, to see how its going!
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:49 - Oct 1 with 3273 viewsPinnerPaul

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 20:03 - Sep 30 by QPR_Jim

Yeah I can see inflation being a big risk with everything going off at the moment. I think the gamble on promotion is the main draw and if you're inclined to think we will get promoted or would put a bet on us getting promoted anyway, then this might give a better pay out than a bookies and your stake back if you lose. Assuming they can pay it back, but I guess they've set that rate as it's better than the rate they can borrow at through business loans etc.


No way is it a better pay out than the bookies - its 1/4 odds!

However, obviously, all being well, you will not only get your stake back, but also get an annual return on it.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:52 - Oct 1 with 3266 viewsPinnerPaul

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 09:40 - Oct 1 by dannyblue

My primary concerns, repeating some things others have said, are:

1. What are the tax implications of the 3%? I don't want to have to be filling in forms to pay income tax on a credit for my season ticket.

2. The 25% bonus - is it 25% of the value of the bonds I've bought, or a 25% bonus on the interest rate? I assume the former but they haven't been clear about it. Is it paid on promotion or at the end of the term?

3. Who would I actually be buying a bond from?

4. 5% looks good now, but might not look good in a couple of years.

5. Perhaps the way to look at this is a free(ish) gamble on promotion in 5 years where I'm likely to get my stake back, plus a little interest for my troubles...


As someone has said above, point 4 applies to all long/mid term investments and there is no answer.

Correctly able to predict inflation, currency rates, share prices in 5 years time & you'd be rich enough the buy the whole club!
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 16:35 - Oct 1 with 3162 viewssaxbend

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 05:28 - Oct 1 by nadera78

I'm curious as to the 3% club credit - will you be able to use it to buy a season ticket outright, or would there be some limits on the amount that can be redeemed in any one transaction? As in, you can use it to cover half the cost of a season ticket but you have to pay the remainder?


If the T&Cs don't make that clear then big red flag. Based one what they say the most logical inferences would be that you can spend all of that 3% on any club purchase that comes in rhe categories of tickets or merchandise. If they don't let you spend it all then they're not giving you the full amount. But if as you suggest they'll let you spend it all but only up to a proportion of each purchase, then they'd better put that in the T&Cs, which I'm sure we'll all be collectively discussing once they're published.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 16:41 - Oct 1 with 3149 viewssaxbend

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 09:21 - Oct 1 by gazza1

It is a very attractive deal indeed but you need to proceed with caution.....8% interest is big and so is the 25% bonus but there are pitfalls in terms of selling the bond - most probably as time moves on it will not be sellable unless you get the 25% bonus, the Club get into financial difficulties for whatever reason (Covid 2) or fail to meet their objectives and go backwards on the field, the owners move on and so on. Well that is my take on the bond anyways......

In saying that, I will probably get involved providing nothing untoward comes up before the offer is on the table. Anybody else??


I'm not personally interested in selling the bond. If the bonds have value such that someone would want to buy them from investors, then I'd rather hold onto what I have. It shouldn't take me long to save the amount I plan to invest again at my current rate.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 20:56 - Oct 1 with 3015 viewsdannyblue

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:52 - Oct 1 by PinnerPaul

As someone has said above, point 4 applies to all long/mid term investments and there is no answer.

Correctly able to predict inflation, currency rates, share prices in 5 years time & you'd be rich enough the buy the whole club!


Yes but other investments also go up with inflation (e.g., assets denominated in sterling or TIPS), or are liquid enough so you can ditch them when the conditions change and get into something more appropriate. You’re stuck with this bond for 5 years regardless.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 09:47 - Oct 2 with 2832 viewspaulparker

My old dad always said invest into Bonds

So I bought a 1000 copies of Goldfinger on VHS

And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles Brian Moore

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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 10:34 - Oct 2 with 2791 viewsPinnerPaul

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 20:56 - Oct 1 by dannyblue

Yes but other investments also go up with inflation (e.g., assets denominated in sterling or TIPS), or are liquid enough so you can ditch them when the conditions change and get into something more appropriate. You’re stuck with this bond for 5 years regardless.


Fair point, but you won't find many investments starting at 5% AND tracking inflation if it rises!
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:21 - Oct 7 with 2476 viewsWhip_It

Just to add some info on the 3%. I asked whether this could be used on STs, but no, it's just for match tickets and clubshop purchases. This is clearly of significant importance to many of us, and also a bit of a blow in the nadgers. They should have been clearer about this from the outset.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 15:17 - Oct 7 with 2319 viewsfrancisbowles

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:21 - Oct 7 by Whip_It

Just to add some info on the 3%. I asked whether this could be used on STs, but no, it's just for match tickets and clubshop purchases. This is clearly of significant importance to many of us, and also a bit of a blow in the nadgers. They should have been clearer about this from the outset.


If you were thinking of investing the minimum, then that's just £15 per year. Not really something to be of concern. However, if you were thinking of thousands then that's a completely different scenario.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 15:39 - Oct 7 with 2277 viewsParkRoyalR

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 13:21 - Oct 7 by Whip_It

Just to add some info on the 3%. I asked whether this could be used on STs, but no, it's just for match tickets and clubshop purchases. This is clearly of significant importance to many of us, and also a bit of a blow in the nadgers. They should have been clearer about this from the outset.


Coming in late on this so some of the following may be repeated:

> 3% cannot be redeemed against season tickets as that £ 5.5m is their most reliable income stream and cannot be disrupted (very fair point considering amount they are currently funding club from their own pocket)

> 3% cannot be used to purchase refreshments etc as catering is an out-sourced company

> 3% sweetner seems to be to encourage / reward loyal fans who will probably purchase at the lower end, so 3% x £ 500 or £ 1,000 = a useful discount on new shirt, scarf etc

> Tifosy have administered similar for Norwich, Harlequins, Surrey CC to name a few

> Very impressed with Ruben last night, very straight-talking + seemed a very normal fella, did laugh when someone mentioned a £ 20k investment would give him £ 600 to spend in the club-shop and Ruben joked they were extending merchandise range to include bedsheets + duvets sets!
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 16:27 - Oct 7 with 2189 viewsPinnerPaul

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 15:17 - Oct 7 by francisbowles

If you were thinking of investing the minimum, then that's just £15 per year. Not really something to be of concern. However, if you were thinking of thousands then that's a completely different scenario.


Quite right and I don't know how they can be any clearer than " Don't invest without reading the offer document containing all the Ts & Cs"

Its mentioned in there several times.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 18:32 - Oct 7 with 2030 viewsstowmarketrange

I’ve just seen an article about Norwich’s new training ground on Anglia tonight,and it looks very impressive.If ours is anywhere near that level it will be money well spent.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 20:29 - Oct 7 with 1884 viewsNorthernr

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 18:32 - Oct 7 by stowmarketrange

I’ve just seen an article about Norwich’s new training ground on Anglia tonight,and it looks very impressive.If ours is anywhere near that level it will be money well spent.


The plans for ours look great. There were some detailed drawings and diagrams and stuff on the Hounslow planning website.

Still slightly troubled that it's not category A.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 20:48 - Oct 7 with 1853 viewsRangersw12

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 20:29 - Oct 7 by Northernr

The plans for ours look great. There were some detailed drawings and diagrams and stuff on the Hounslow planning website.

Still slightly troubled that it's not category A.


Have they ever given a reason why its not Cat A?
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 21:05 - Oct 7 with 1832 viewsderbyhoop

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 20:48 - Oct 7 by Rangersw12

Have they ever given a reason why its not Cat A?


Cost?

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain) Find me on twitter @derbyhoop

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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 21:12 - Oct 7 with 1825 viewsGloryHunter

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 20:29 - Oct 7 by Northernr

The plans for ours look great. There were some detailed drawings and diagrams and stuff on the Hounslow planning website.

Still slightly troubled that it's not category A.


Can someone remind me why this matters, please?
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 01:37 - Oct 8 with 1695 viewsDavieQPR

A Category 1 Training ground must have at least £2.3m spent on it each season and have one coach for every eight players. With the extra medical staff and facilities it cost a lot of money to run although is subsidised more.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 08:35 - Oct 8 with 1627 viewsPinnerPaul

Quick heads up in case this applied to anyone else.

I applied using the 'normal cash' option, but have decided that I want to use the ISA option.

E mailed Tifosy and received a quick response, telling me to request cancellation of original application, they will then transfer funds to ISA once I have set that up.

Even if that doesn't apply to you, thought I would let you know that they seem pretty good at replying to any query via email - took about 5 hours and they replied at 11.30 last night - encouraging signs I would say.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 08:36 - Oct 8 with 1626 viewsPinnerPaul

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 20:29 - Oct 7 by Northernr

The plans for ours look great. There were some detailed drawings and diagrams and stuff on the Hounslow planning website.

Still slightly troubled that it's not category A.


IF we ever got promoted is it a PL requirement to have a Category A academy within a certain timescale?

Thinking aloud, I guess not as Brentford don't have one do they?
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 10:13 - Oct 8 with 1542 viewssaxbend

Ok I did it. I decided the amount I can afford to lose and took the plunge. Now comes the nervous part (could take a week they say) while I wait for confirmation that the money's been received.

Heads up: I went through the big pdf with all the Ts&Cs. The main concern I had was to be sure bondholders wouldn't be bumped down in the event of liquidation and that side of things looks good.

However, the club credit cannot be spent on season tickets. It explicitly says so. So if you're a season ticket holder (and you probably are if you have spare money to invest), consider how much you would normally spend on tickets for away games cup games and on shirts and other merch, because you may want to calculate your capital based on that if you can get a better interest rate elsewhere as well. I made my estimate based on home cup games costing me about £20 on average (two and a half of those a season on average), away games averaging around £30 and a shirt around £50. Coach travel isn't mentioned at all so I decided not to factor the cost of that when considering how much club credit I would find useful.
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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 10:24 - Oct 8 with 1532 viewsJeff

QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 10:13 - Oct 8 by saxbend

Ok I did it. I decided the amount I can afford to lose and took the plunge. Now comes the nervous part (could take a week they say) while I wait for confirmation that the money's been received.

Heads up: I went through the big pdf with all the Ts&Cs. The main concern I had was to be sure bondholders wouldn't be bumped down in the event of liquidation and that side of things looks good.

However, the club credit cannot be spent on season tickets. It explicitly says so. So if you're a season ticket holder (and you probably are if you have spare money to invest), consider how much you would normally spend on tickets for away games cup games and on shirts and other merch, because you may want to calculate your capital based on that if you can get a better interest rate elsewhere as well. I made my estimate based on home cup games costing me about £20 on average (two and a half of those a season on average), away games averaging around £30 and a shirt around £50. Coach travel isn't mentioned at all so I decided not to factor the cost of that when considering how much club credit I would find useful.


FYI, you can't use the cash to buy away tickets. It's home tickets and club shop tat only.

Can we not knock it?

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QPR Bond - thoughts from those with expertise? on 11:12 - Oct 8 with 1486 viewsMungoJezza

My concern regards how easy will it be to sell the bond on at the end of the five years? Since the bonds don't change in value, what incentive is there for someone to buy a bond then (i.e after five years) via the Tifosy exchange other than the interest gained? The training ground would have been built, and we might be already in the Premiership by then.
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