Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... 16:50 - Nov 18 with 2300 views | WatfordR | ...after match officials incorrectly advised Exeter they could use a sixth substitute in extra time. Sooooooo, if an First Round FA Cup Tie can be replayed after match officials got a key decision indisputably wrong, why can't they replay an Fourth Round EFL Cup Tie after match officials got a key decision indisputably wrong? | | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 16:51 - Nov 18 with 2278 views | Northernr | Yeh not sure they're going to enjoy having opened that can of worms. | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 16:56 - Nov 18 with 2251 views | WatfordR |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 16:51 - Nov 18 by Northernr | Yeh not sure they're going to enjoy having opened that can of worms. |
If I were QPR, I'd be all over this with the EFL. Though I guess the FA's Professional Game Board probably don't have jurisdiction over the EFL Cup in the same way they would over the FA Cup. | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 17:07 - Nov 18 with 2213 views | PinnerPaul | Can see the point you're making but its an objective factual decision that's wrong here. Yep the Sunderland 'goal' was factually incorrect but only after looking at TV pictures which the officials didn't have 'official' access to, unlike the written competition rules, which of course they do. I know many of you will argue the point but that's the best way I can describe it. Its like getting a game replayed after a corner is given instead of a 'factually correct' goal kick, start off down that route and its more a giant silo than a can! | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 17:15 - Nov 18 with 2181 views | PinnerPaul | As a side note, nice to see the manager take some responsibility though. TBF with 4 officials the main blame has to lie with them. | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 17:38 - Nov 18 with 2120 views | WatfordR |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 17:07 - Nov 18 by PinnerPaul | Can see the point you're making but its an objective factual decision that's wrong here. Yep the Sunderland 'goal' was factually incorrect but only after looking at TV pictures which the officials didn't have 'official' access to, unlike the written competition rules, which of course they do. I know many of you will argue the point but that's the best way I can describe it. Its like getting a game replayed after a corner is given instead of a 'factually correct' goal kick, start off down that route and its more a giant silo than a can! |
Paul, I understand completely your point, but I think I'd have to disagree on the logic. The Sunderland goal decision was factually incorrect, full stop. Because the match officials got that key decision wrong (two key decisions actually, the handball and the offside), they handed every bit as much a material advantage to Sunderland as they did to Exeter, who went on to use the incorrect advantage given to them to score three goals in extra time to win the game. I take your point regards every decision being open to review, however VAR doesn't review corners, free kicks and so on, it reviews key decisions like goals and red cards, because they have a material impact on the result of a game. If you're going to rule the Exeter result null and void because a specific decision made by officials materially affected the result, then that logic must be applied consistently, and the Sunderland game should also be ruled null and void and replayed. The only difference I can see would be if the committee covering the EFL Cup were a different one, and they might be entitled to come to a different conclusion. | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 17:51 - Nov 18 with 2085 views | LowerloftLad |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 17:38 - Nov 18 by WatfordR | Paul, I understand completely your point, but I think I'd have to disagree on the logic. The Sunderland goal decision was factually incorrect, full stop. Because the match officials got that key decision wrong (two key decisions actually, the handball and the offside), they handed every bit as much a material advantage to Sunderland as they did to Exeter, who went on to use the incorrect advantage given to them to score three goals in extra time to win the game. I take your point regards every decision being open to review, however VAR doesn't review corners, free kicks and so on, it reviews key decisions like goals and red cards, because they have a material impact on the result of a game. If you're going to rule the Exeter result null and void because a specific decision made by officials materially affected the result, then that logic must be applied consistently, and the Sunderland game should also be ruled null and void and replayed. The only difference I can see would be if the committee covering the EFL Cup were a different one, and they might be entitled to come to a different conclusion. |
The Sunderland goal has led to them going on a fantastic run of results. | |
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Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 17:58 - Nov 18 with 2061 views | WatfordR |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 17:51 - Nov 18 by LowerloftLad | The Sunderland goal has led to them going on a fantastic run of results. |
The only relevant observation about Sunderland here is that the disallowed goal has lead to them going to a cup quarter final they weren't entitled to. | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 18:19 - Nov 18 with 2022 views | daveB |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 16:56 - Nov 18 by WatfordR | If I were QPR, I'd be all over this with the EFL. Though I guess the FA's Professional Game Board probably don't have jurisdiction over the EFL Cup in the same way they would over the FA Cup. |
We'd only lose the replay anyway | | | | Login to get fewer ads
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 18:55 - Nov 18 with 1945 views | ozranger |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 17:38 - Nov 18 by WatfordR | Paul, I understand completely your point, but I think I'd have to disagree on the logic. The Sunderland goal decision was factually incorrect, full stop. Because the match officials got that key decision wrong (two key decisions actually, the handball and the offside), they handed every bit as much a material advantage to Sunderland as they did to Exeter, who went on to use the incorrect advantage given to them to score three goals in extra time to win the game. I take your point regards every decision being open to review, however VAR doesn't review corners, free kicks and so on, it reviews key decisions like goals and red cards, because they have a material impact on the result of a game. If you're going to rule the Exeter result null and void because a specific decision made by officials materially affected the result, then that logic must be applied consistently, and the Sunderland game should also be ruled null and void and replayed. The only difference I can see would be if the committee covering the EFL Cup were a different one, and they might be entitled to come to a different conclusion. |
I think Pinner is missing the right wording. Forget "factually incorrect". That is too wishy-washy and on the fence type of wording that should not belong in a discussion relating to officiating. Let's get this straight. There are two types of decisions made by an officiating crew in nearly every sport from various baseball to football, etc. These are either judgement decisions or decisions of law. If a decision of law is incorrectly applied, that decision can be challenged by right of appeal. These are naturally rather rare. The Edgware Town v Harefield in 2006 is one such example. In that case the referee, when encroachment by the attacking side took place in a penalty situation, incorrectly according to laws of the game awarded an indirect freekick to the defending team when a retake should have been the case for that encroachment. Note that the decision that encroachment took place was a judgement call by the officials. It was the resultant decision on restarting play by the referee that was appealed. The decision by the assistant and referee in the Sunderland game was a judgement decision, plain and simple. They adjudged (or one of them did) that an offence had been committed, in this case an off-side against one of the QPR players and thus ruled based on that judgement decision. Similarly the missed hand ball offence was a judgement decision that they did not see or believe that an offence had taken place (if you want to take in conspiracy theories that is up to you). That cannot and should not be appealable. Stupidity and incompetence cannot be appealed. Incorrectly applying the laws can. Note that believing that a player is offside when he was not is not incorrectly applying the laws, while it may appear so, but is a judgement choice. Thus the situation here with the Exeter-Bradford game is that a rule of law was incorrectly applied and thus can be appealed which has led to recompense in the manner of a replay to right what the FA has seen as wrong. | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 19:06 - Nov 18 with 1918 views | davman | There are some "decisions" that you can forgive, but there are FOUR officials and a referees assessor at fault here. How the hell did the additional sub go on without any one of them going "er, hang on"? No excuses about the speed of the game, no excuses about players being in the way of their line of sight; this is NEGLIGENCE, pure and simple. So, what is their punishment? Have they all got a Premier League game as a "reward"? The referee's union will go on about why they shouldn't be blamed and that it is such a hard and thankless job and that its no wonder no-one wants to do it, but flippin' heck, this is even worse than giving someone three yellows. Incompetent. | |
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Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 19:35 - Nov 18 with 1850 views | Superhoops2808 |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 17:15 - Nov 18 by PinnerPaul | As a side note, nice to see the manager take some responsibility though. TBF with 4 officials the main blame has to lie with them. |
Fully expect to see the 4 at one of our next matches then | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 20:02 - Nov 18 with 1820 views | themodfather | how many subs did sunderland make on the night? is it worth a check? | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 20:12 - Nov 18 with 1795 views | stowmarketrange | Was it not the 4th official who told the linesman that it was offside,and told warburton at the same time?Therefore the Lino was doubly at fault for not seeing it himself and then by going on the word of someone who wasn’t in the best position to see it anyway. It’s all too late now,but it still isn’t right. | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 20:16 - Nov 18 with 1784 views | WatfordR |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 18:55 - Nov 18 by ozranger | I think Pinner is missing the right wording. Forget "factually incorrect". That is too wishy-washy and on the fence type of wording that should not belong in a discussion relating to officiating. Let's get this straight. There are two types of decisions made by an officiating crew in nearly every sport from various baseball to football, etc. These are either judgement decisions or decisions of law. If a decision of law is incorrectly applied, that decision can be challenged by right of appeal. These are naturally rather rare. The Edgware Town v Harefield in 2006 is one such example. In that case the referee, when encroachment by the attacking side took place in a penalty situation, incorrectly according to laws of the game awarded an indirect freekick to the defending team when a retake should have been the case for that encroachment. Note that the decision that encroachment took place was a judgement call by the officials. It was the resultant decision on restarting play by the referee that was appealed. The decision by the assistant and referee in the Sunderland game was a judgement decision, plain and simple. They adjudged (or one of them did) that an offence had been committed, in this case an off-side against one of the QPR players and thus ruled based on that judgement decision. Similarly the missed hand ball offence was a judgement decision that they did not see or believe that an offence had taken place (if you want to take in conspiracy theories that is up to you). That cannot and should not be appealable. Stupidity and incompetence cannot be appealed. Incorrectly applying the laws can. Note that believing that a player is offside when he was not is not incorrectly applying the laws, while it may appear so, but is a judgement choice. Thus the situation here with the Exeter-Bradford game is that a rule of law was incorrectly applied and thus can be appealed which has led to recompense in the manner of a replay to right what the FA has seen as wrong. |
I realise the difference between getting rules wrong and making wrong judgment calls. But in this day and age, stupidity and incompetence in football is appealed at every game where VAR is used. Incidents missed by officials are reviewed and judged, and penalties applied post event all the time, Charlie’s ban last season a case in point. The Exeter game is being replayed because match officials have officiated not only incorrectly but incompetently. They should have got a particular decision right and they got it wrong, and in so doing, handed an unfair advantage to one team. We are out of the EFL Cup for precisely, absolutely the same reason. If you’re talking rule of law, to replay the Exeter game and not ours looks like discrimination. | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 21:46 - Nov 18 with 1637 views | terryb |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 20:12 - Nov 18 by stowmarketrange | Was it not the 4th official who told the linesman that it was offside,and told warburton at the same time?Therefore the Lino was doubly at fault for not seeing it himself and then by going on the word of someone who wasn’t in the best position to see it anyway. It’s all too late now,but it still isn’t right. |
I think you will find that the 4th official told Warburton it was offside as he saw the raised flag. There is nearly zero chance that he told the linesman as how would he have been able to see if it was offside from the centre line? | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 21:53 - Nov 18 with 1619 views | Myke | Have we seriously not moved on from this? Even after Blackpool's non-goal, goal? | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 22:50 - Nov 18 with 1534 views | Loftgirl | It's only QPR, innit? | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 22:57 - Nov 18 with 1518 views | stowmarketrange |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 21:46 - Nov 18 by terryb | I think you will find that the 4th official told Warburton it was offside as he saw the raised flag. There is nearly zero chance that he told the linesman as how would he have been able to see if it was offside from the centre line? |
I thought the suggestion at the time was that the 4th official mentioned offside which then put doubt in the lino’s mind,who then decided that it might’ve been offside.He took too long to make that decision on his own surely? I can’t be bothered to scroll through the posts about it on the night,but I thought that was the theory.Whether the 4th official could see the tv pictures and made his mind up that way I don’t know.But it was an almighty cock up by the officials on the night. | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 06:48 - Nov 19 with 1392 views | davman |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 21:53 - Nov 18 by Myke | Have we seriously not moved on from this? Even after Blackpool's non-goal, goal? |
Exactly this. And their non-penalty when Moses clattered their bloke in the area. We lost one, we got one and who's to say that point won't be the one that scrapes us into the Play-offs on our way to the big league, which would make the money for getting to the QF of the EFL Cup look like pin money? | |
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Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 09:51 - Nov 19 with 1281 views | Hayesender | Surely it would make more sense to just play the 30 minutes of extra time behind closed doors? | |
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Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 12:11 - Nov 19 with 1165 views | PinnerPaul |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 17:38 - Nov 18 by WatfordR | Paul, I understand completely your point, but I think I'd have to disagree on the logic. The Sunderland goal decision was factually incorrect, full stop. Because the match officials got that key decision wrong (two key decisions actually, the handball and the offside), they handed every bit as much a material advantage to Sunderland as they did to Exeter, who went on to use the incorrect advantage given to them to score three goals in extra time to win the game. I take your point regards every decision being open to review, however VAR doesn't review corners, free kicks and so on, it reviews key decisions like goals and red cards, because they have a material impact on the result of a game. If you're going to rule the Exeter result null and void because a specific decision made by officials materially affected the result, then that logic must be applied consistently, and the Sunderland game should also be ruled null and void and replayed. The only difference I can see would be if the committee covering the EFL Cup were a different one, and they might be entitled to come to a different conclusion. |
Don't agree but see your point as well. BUT....IF replayed then surely Blackpool would want our game replayed - hence the can/silo of worms remarks! | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 12:13 - Nov 19 with 1159 views | PinnerPaul |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 18:55 - Nov 18 by ozranger | I think Pinner is missing the right wording. Forget "factually incorrect". That is too wishy-washy and on the fence type of wording that should not belong in a discussion relating to officiating. Let's get this straight. There are two types of decisions made by an officiating crew in nearly every sport from various baseball to football, etc. These are either judgement decisions or decisions of law. If a decision of law is incorrectly applied, that decision can be challenged by right of appeal. These are naturally rather rare. The Edgware Town v Harefield in 2006 is one such example. In that case the referee, when encroachment by the attacking side took place in a penalty situation, incorrectly according to laws of the game awarded an indirect freekick to the defending team when a retake should have been the case for that encroachment. Note that the decision that encroachment took place was a judgement call by the officials. It was the resultant decision on restarting play by the referee that was appealed. The decision by the assistant and referee in the Sunderland game was a judgement decision, plain and simple. They adjudged (or one of them did) that an offence had been committed, in this case an off-side against one of the QPR players and thus ruled based on that judgement decision. Similarly the missed hand ball offence was a judgement decision that they did not see or believe that an offence had taken place (if you want to take in conspiracy theories that is up to you). That cannot and should not be appealable. Stupidity and incompetence cannot be appealed. Incorrectly applying the laws can. Note that believing that a player is offside when he was not is not incorrectly applying the laws, while it may appear so, but is a judgement choice. Thus the situation here with the Exeter-Bradford game is that a rule of law was incorrectly applied and thus can be appealed which has led to recompense in the manner of a replay to right what the FA has seen as wrong. |
Much better put than me - agree 100%! | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 12:18 - Nov 19 with 1141 views | Ned_Kennedys | Bradford had a player sent off for 2 yellow cards: apparently his suspension still stands despite the game being wiped from the records. What a joke. | | | |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 13:55 - Nov 20 with 851 views | WatfordR |
Exeter-Bradford Cup Tie to be replayed.... on 12:11 - Nov 19 by PinnerPaul | Don't agree but see your point as well. BUT....IF replayed then surely Blackpool would want our game replayed - hence the can/silo of worms remarks! |
I suppose I feel there's a difference between the swings and roundabouts of a 46 game league season, and the more immediate win or lose nature of the Cup. It's not as if we're going to get the chance of things evening themselves out for us in the quarter finals, is it? I'm also fairly sure the Exeter-Bradford game wouldn't be replayed if it were a league game, notwithstanding the screw up occurred in extra time. I think in general, the introduction of VAR has established the principle of overriding match officials during a match. The Exeter decision now establishes the principle of overriding match officials after a match. I really can't see any difference between officials wrongly impacting a result by screwing up on a point of procedure and wrongly impacting a result by screwing up on a point of in play officiating, particularly one as clear cut as the Sunderland "goal". They've not done their job properly in either case. Giving Sunderland a full 90 minutes to replay from all square, rather than the 10 minutes or so they should have had on the night at 1-0 down (possibly with only 10 men if a handball and penalty ensued) would be more than fair in my view. [Post edited 20 Nov 2021 14:03]
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