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Everyone’s favourite clown was at it again today at Swansea.He turned down at least 3 penalty shouts for the swans today.It resulted in a draw rather than a win for swansea. I think he missed 2 penalty shouts the last time he refereed one of their games,which was just before his performance at Bournemouth in our defeat. Glad to see he spent the international break honing his refereeing skills.
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Stroud at it again on 10:38 - Nov 23 with 1162 views
Like you gazza, I thought Stroud had a reasonable game at Bournemouth apart from the non sending off of Willock & not giving a second caution to the Bournemouth left back for knocking the ball away. Two decisions that I expect he got coated for by the accessor. I also thought he was decent when Sunderland came to The Bush. Those are the two best performances I've seen from him.
However, IMO, he is the worst referee that I've seen in The Championship for many a year. Time & again I hear/read that he couldn't give that decision because he was unsighted & that is his defence. What? How many times can he miss major decisions because he's unsighted? How about querying his positioning instead?
As I stated earlier, Queens Park Rangers supporters are far from alone in their detest/loathing for Mr. Stroud. The best reaction he appears to receive from anywhere is laughter from the fans of clubs that have benefitted from his ineptness. Swansea, in particular, believe he has cost them victories on multiple occassions.
Why is he not given less Championship games? Possibly, because he officiates in the same manner as his boss, Mike Riley (who, IMO, was worse than Keith)!
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Stroud at it again on 10:44 - Nov 23 with 1137 views
Like you gazza, I thought Stroud had a reasonable game at Bournemouth apart from the non sending off of Willock & not giving a second caution to the Bournemouth left back for knocking the ball away. Two decisions that I expect he got coated for by the accessor. I also thought he was decent when Sunderland came to The Bush. Those are the two best performances I've seen from him.
However, IMO, he is the worst referee that I've seen in The Championship for many a year. Time & again I hear/read that he couldn't give that decision because he was unsighted & that is his defence. What? How many times can he miss major decisions because he's unsighted? How about querying his positioning instead?
As I stated earlier, Queens Park Rangers supporters are far from alone in their detest/loathing for Mr. Stroud. The best reaction he appears to receive from anywhere is laughter from the fans of clubs that have benefitted from his ineptness. Swansea, in particular, believe he has cost them victories on multiple occassions.
Why is he not given less Championship games? Possibly, because he officiates in the same manner as his boss, Mike Riley (who, IMO, was worse than Keith)!
It has only been brought to my attention but Norf and his 'boys'......I have seen him twice this season and he has been fine really, not perfect, but OK. But he gets piles of abuse - which, imho, is not right. Some of the stuff is proper wrong!!!
As for other matches, not looked at them.....only really interested in the R's.
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Stroud at it again on 10:48 - Nov 23 with 1130 views
Like you gazza, I thought Stroud had a reasonable game at Bournemouth apart from the non sending off of Willock & not giving a second caution to the Bournemouth left back for knocking the ball away. Two decisions that I expect he got coated for by the accessor. I also thought he was decent when Sunderland came to The Bush. Those are the two best performances I've seen from him.
However, IMO, he is the worst referee that I've seen in The Championship for many a year. Time & again I hear/read that he couldn't give that decision because he was unsighted & that is his defence. What? How many times can he miss major decisions because he's unsighted? How about querying his positioning instead?
As I stated earlier, Queens Park Rangers supporters are far from alone in their detest/loathing for Mr. Stroud. The best reaction he appears to receive from anywhere is laughter from the fans of clubs that have benefitted from his ineptness. Swansea, in particular, believe he has cost them victories on multiple occassions.
Why is he not given less Championship games? Possibly, because he officiates in the same manner as his boss, Mike Riley (who, IMO, was worse than Keith)!
Sam McCallum got him out of jail at Bournemouth. the most blatant handball penalty you'll ever see, so bad even the Bournemouth players stopped, and luckily Sam scored anyway.
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Stroud at it again on 10:50 - Nov 23 with 1109 views
I saw that mariner was 50 in Clive’s message,but I didn’t know the rules had changed regarding their retirement age.
I don't know if there is any rules on age limits.....what I can say about fitness and referees is that 'back in the day' I was very friendly with a Football League Div 1 referee (Top Ref) and I went pre-season training with him because he needed to get through his FL ref fitness test. Well, fxck me, we started with 100 yard sprints - pretty even, then 'doggies' (back and forward at speed) - pretty even, then 200/400 yard sprints, can't remember 6 or 8. The last 3 400 yarders I was left far behind the FL Ref and he was 10 years older that me!!! They are proper fit and should be well respected. . That was then, I would not expect it to be any easier in modern times.
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Stroud at it again on 10:50 - Nov 23 with 1114 views
Sam McCallum got him out of jail at Bournemouth. the most blatant handball penalty you'll ever see, so bad even the Bournemouth players stopped, and luckily Sam scored anyway.
And the defender didn’t knock the ball away,he actually picked it up and threw it into the crowd behind the goal.How could he not see that?
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Stroud at it again on 10:52 - Nov 23 with 1106 views
Well, if you are basically saying that poor performances from Referees & AR’s cannot be dealt with accordingly then I find that pretty difficult to understand and believe. Not calling you wrong but I find it pretty difficult to believe that a ref who is continually failing, as is suggested many, many times, cannot but disciplined whatever that discipline is.
One small point….in your first para you say ‘cannot be permanently relegated’, if he has been so bad, as has been said by you on numerous occasions, why hasn’t he been ‘temporarily’ relegated further if he is still struggling with his performances??
Sweeping statement eh….I can have my opinions just like you can & do…..just like the rest of the posters on here can.
Going back to Mr. Stroud….my view on Stroud is different from yours which does not make your views correct nor mine. It is a view and mine is not just a sweeping statement, I have looked and formed an opinion which is what I do.
Sadly, you are a bit like ‘pied piper’ and many, many posters just follow you because you can write good words and you, apparently, are Mr Knowledgeable & their hero!!! Hence why so many have a very similar opinion to you, not just on Stroud. I’m not one of your ‘followers’, I just read your stuff with interest, agree with some and don’t agree with some.
Specifically, with regards to Stroud, so many, you included, always want to pull up his past when he has made a bad call. Just like this thread…..3 penalties — absolute crap!!. ‘Lets jump on him’ is the attitude. Even before he has referred our game, he gets abuse from you & others — wrong imho, lets move on!!!
As an add on - I do not know a top referee that has not made bad decisions….they all make them.
As for his last two games that he has refereed us…B’mouth — I looked back at the match because I did not believe that he ‘done bad’ and I was fed up with your slagging and many of your disciple’s slagging off. In my view he did a decent job at B’mouth, got a couple of things wrong, specifically the sending off of Willock incident which, apparently, Pinner says was not a sending off so that decision was correct one because Willock only kicked him softly!!! And a couple of other things he didn’t get quite right during the match — nothing bad. Likewise, the Sunderland game, all his fault that we lost — if the AR gets it right then we win the game. (Stroud is not in a position to overrule the offside decision). Oh, it was still his fault because he should have seen the handball so it is his fault we lost — more rubbish!!!!
Anyways, I will try my utmost not to post any more, so called, sweeping statements — This will be my New Years resolution!!!!
You love it
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Stroud at it again on 11:06 - Nov 23 with 1068 views
And the defender didn’t knock the ball away,he actually picked it up and threw it into the crowd behind the goal.How could he not see that?
A plus then for Stroud......played the advantage very well or NO he should had blown and given the penalty. Stroud error once again!!! Always Stroud!!!!
A plus then for Stroud......played the advantage very well or NO he should had blown and given the penalty. Stroud error once again!!! Always Stroud!!!!
I think you might have the wrong Stroud mistake here.I was talking about the 90th minute at Bournemouth when their defender picked the ball up after it went behind for a goal kick.Instead of just leaving it to waste time,he picked it up and threw it to their fans behind the goal.That is a yellow card for any other player any day of the week. He either didn’t see it,or chose to do nothing about it.
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Stroud at it again on 13:52 - Nov 23 with 957 views
So what made you change your mind from yesterday’s “Never in a month of Sundays.” Not a dig,but just curious.
I was referring to the ONE appeal for a pen that was on Sky's highlights, then someone above pointed out that the club's offy highlights were on YouTube, where they didn't even show the one that was on Sky, but did show two more.
Of the two others I've now seen one - yes, the other one IS like the first - never in a month of Sundays.
Yes we all like to have a go at Mr S but to say he missed 3 pens is a nonsense.
[Post edited 23 Nov 2021 13:53]
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Stroud at it again on 13:54 - Nov 23 with 946 views
I thought the retirement for top officials was 47?Several good refs in the past were made to hang up their whistles when they reached that age.Have the rules changed now then?
Employment law is what has changed - can't boot anyone out of anywhere based purely on age.
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Stroud at it again on 13:57 - Nov 23 with 944 views
I thought the first 2 were questionable, but the 3rd one was nailed on. Only doubt, did he have a good view.
Someone gets it...........................
I missed a clear handball pen on Sunday - neutral ARs told me and I could tell myself from player reaction - but a player crossed right in front of me so didn't see it at all - can't give what you don't see.
Luckily for me, very one sided game, so didn't matter.
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Stroud at it again on 13:58 - Nov 23 with 940 views
I think you might have the wrong Stroud mistake here.I was talking about the 90th minute at Bournemouth when their defender picked the ball up after it went behind for a goal kick.Instead of just leaving it to waste time,he picked it up and threw it to their fans behind the goal.That is a yellow card for any other player any day of the week. He either didn’t see it,or chose to do nothing about it.
Yes I saw that at the time very late in the game.....very annoying.
No praise for Stroud for the incident that I mention though!!!!
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Stroud at it again on 14:05 - Nov 23 with 932 views
Gaz, with respect, I fear this is another of your sweeping statements not based in fact. As I understand it (Pinner may come and make me look a cnt now...) it's incredibly difficult to permanently relegate or sack a referee based on performance. They might drop a league or two within their classification for a period of time, but that’s it.
The PGMOL (who handle and designate the referees) are hamstrung by employment laws that apply to every business in this country. They have to operate within the same parameters as a parcel delivery company, or a call centre, or a bakery - regardless of the completely unique circumstances of the job. This is why we have a 50-year-old bloke refereeing Spurs v Leeds on Sunday.
You can't relegate or demote people at work for getting old. There is a set retirement age and that's it. If somebody disintegrates physically or mentally before that, or is able to physically or mentally continue beyond it... tough. Referees have a set retirement age. If they're below that and they can pass the fitness test, they're in. The fact Stroud, Woolmer, Kettle and others have disintegrated into absolute liabilities long before the retirement age is, sadly, irrelevant as long as they can get round the track in August. They were promoted up to this level two decades ago (in all three cases) and unless they shake hands on an early retirement and fck off then it's very difficult to shift them. You're leaving yourself open to all manner of unfair dismissal tribunals if you try and force it upon them.
Referees can only be promoted. From lower non-league to upper non-league, from non-league to the EFL, and from EFL to the elite list. To relegate them is fraught with horrendous legal problems. If they're repeatedly getting stuff 'wrong in law' then maybe, but even then I suspect it would be suspension and retraining rather than getting bombed. Gurnham Singh, one of the worst referees of all time, tried to hang them on a racial discrimination charge because he didn’t get promoted, when anybody who’d ever been to one of Gurnham Singh’s games would be able to tell you that he should never have been within 500 miles of a football match ever again.
You get examples, like Chuckles Woolmer, who was just so horrendously bad in the Championship that he only got League One and Two games for a couple of seasons, but he was still on that EFL list and has now crawled his way back to our games. Kettle, while rightly never trusted with Championship games, remains on the EFL list, and can be found royally fcking up Lg 1 and 2 games on the highlights ever week. He will do that until he reaches retirement age. Trevor Kettle was the worst referee in the Championship in 2006, it's now 2021, and it doesn't matter. Stroud can only go sideways, or up, until he’s old enough for them to fck him off. He cannot be sacked or relegated without gross misconduct - Darren Deadman, another horrendously bad referee, went that way. https://www.peterboroughtoday.
The best chance they had with Stroud was when he got the Newcastle Burton penalty retake wrong in law…
… but they just suspended him for three months and then brought him back.
This creates a bit of a log jam at the top. Our referee on Wednesday, Graham Scott, is now old, has been doing it for a long time, is increasingly being given Championship games rather than Premier League games, but as long as he doesn’t send dick pics to somebody, or say something racial on social media, he’s on that elite list now until he retires. Tottneham Leeds, high energy, fraught, Super Sunday, 4pm, primetime - refereed by Andre Marriner, who is 50. 50. There's a fcking 50 year old trying to keep up with that. What an absolute fcking joke. You can’t sack and demote referees without gross misconduct stuff, and much as we think our Sunderland goal qualifies it doesn’t.
So Stroud, Woolmer, Kettle, Mike Dean… these cnts, they’re around until they breach the retirement age, and there’s nothing you can do about it. The idea that Keith Stroud is actually good, and in fact we just don't see it, and that's why he's still here, is, like I say, another one of your broad brushtrokes not based in fact.
This post has been edited by an administrator
You may be surprised to know that I agree with 90% of that
5% - Not sure, will find out, but don't think there IS a retirement age - because of, as you say, employment law.
5% - All referees Level 4 and above have to pass set fitness tests - to get promoted from 5 to 4 for example you could the best level 5 in your county - based on club and assessor marks - but if you don't pass the test - you get two goes I believe, then 5 is where you'll stay the next season.
Same at elite level - don't pass the test - obviously tougher the higher you go, then they wouldn't be in the PL.
Agree about being very rare for a referee to get 'sacked' for purely on the filed performance, unless as you say, constantly wrong in law, which is very rare.
Edit - General view on RefChat is that there is no mandatory retirement age for elite officials.
2nd update - No retirement age in the UK, but FIFA DO still have an upper age limit.
[Post edited 23 Nov 2021 16:55]
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Stroud at it again on 14:17 - Nov 23 with 918 views
I doubt it's 65, but yeh if you're fit enough it's very difficult for them to be sacked or demoted.
There's then a whole other debate about who exactly there is to take their place if you did start binning them off.
Spot on again!
Not enough refs, too many games - always been the case I guess but since covid - seems so much worse.
The youth league my son used to play in, used to get near 100% referee coverage, now down to about 30%.
Even a 61 year old level 7 like myself is in great demand - MW impression coming up - here's my schedule for next 9 days.
Tomorrow - 2 academy/college lines Sat - Public school middle Sun - Women's National Reserve League line Mon - Isthmian U23 line Tues - Public School middle Weds - Day off.....at the moment Thurs - Isthmian U23 line
That's replicated all over - could referee every day if I wanted and get offers to ref/volunteer for sometimes a dozen games at the weekend!
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Stroud at it again on 14:21 - Nov 23 with 913 views
Yes I saw that at the time very late in the game.....very annoying.
No praise for Stroud for the incident that I mention though!!!!
Because if you watch it back he didn't play advantage, he didn't give it and wouldn't have given it whether we'd scored or not. He croses his hands over to say he doesn't think it is handball. If he'd waved advantage fair enough, but he made it very clear he didn't think it was a penalty which is... alarming given the bloke batted the ball away with his arm.
1min 30secs...
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Stroud at it again on 14:23 - Nov 23 with 908 views
Like you gazza, I thought Stroud had a reasonable game at Bournemouth apart from the non sending off of Willock & not giving a second caution to the Bournemouth left back for knocking the ball away. Two decisions that I expect he got coated for by the accessor. I also thought he was decent when Sunderland came to The Bush. Those are the two best performances I've seen from him.
However, IMO, he is the worst referee that I've seen in The Championship for many a year. Time & again I hear/read that he couldn't give that decision because he was unsighted & that is his defence. What? How many times can he miss major decisions because he's unsighted? How about querying his positioning instead?
As I stated earlier, Queens Park Rangers supporters are far from alone in their detest/loathing for Mr. Stroud. The best reaction he appears to receive from anywhere is laughter from the fans of clubs that have benefitted from his ineptness. Swansea, in particular, believe he has cost them victories on multiple occassions.
Why is he not given less Championship games? Possibly, because he officiates in the same manner as his boss, Mike Riley (who, IMO, was worse than Keith)!
Excellent point on positioning Terry - you're correct, if a referee kept giving that as an 'excuse', he would be picked up on it.
Clive is correct, they are rarely demoted, but as I've said before EVERY decision in a game in the top 2 leagues, at least, is 'marked'
Football being the game it is, you start 'sacking' referees for say 3 'wrong' judgement calls and you'll pretty quickly run out of refs.
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Stroud at it again on 14:28 - Nov 23 with 903 views
Because if you watch it back he didn't play advantage, he didn't give it and wouldn't have given it whether we'd scored or not. He croses his hands over to say he doesn't think it is handball. If he'd waved advantage fair enough, but he made it very clear he didn't think it was a penalty which is... alarming given the bloke batted the ball away with his arm.
1min 30secs...
Can't argue with that.
As a side note, annoys me when Nick London says "We'll call that advantage"
IF its advantage, it WILL be signalled!
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Stroud at it again on 14:42 - Nov 23 with 876 views
Because if you watch it back he didn't play advantage, he didn't give it and wouldn't have given it whether we'd scored or not. He croses his hands over to say he doesn't think it is handball. If he'd waved advantage fair enough, but he made it very clear he didn't think it was a penalty which is... alarming given the bloke batted the ball away with his arm.
1min 30secs...
Agreed, having looked at Stroud, he probably wasn't going to give it.....must have thought that his hand/arm was by his side so did not think it was handball, as such.
He was right as well, surely.
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Stroud at it again on 14:52 - Nov 23 with 864 views
Agreed, having looked at Stroud, he probably wasn't going to give it.....must have thought that his hand/arm was by his side so did not think it was handball, as such.
He was right as well, surely.
I mean if you don’t think that’s a penalty gaz I don’t think we’re going to find common ground here
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Stroud at it again on 16:03 - Nov 23 with 806 views
Stroud at it again on 13:52 - Nov 23 by PinnerPaul
I was referring to the ONE appeal for a pen that was on Sky's highlights, then someone above pointed out that the club's offy highlights were on YouTube, where they didn't even show the one that was on Sky, but did show two more.
Of the two others I've now seen one - yes, the other one IS like the first - never in a month of Sundays.
Yes we all like to have a go at Mr S but to say he missed 3 pens is a nonsense.
[Post edited 23 Nov 2021 13:53]
I didn’t say that all 3 were penalties,but I was just repeating the view of the Quest report which said that there were 3 penalty shouts.I didn’t think the first 2 were either,but the 3rd one in the 2nd half should’ve been given.So swansea potentially lost another 2 points because he didn’t give it.
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Stroud at it again on 16:13 - Nov 23 with 783 views
I didn’t say that all 3 were penalties,but I was just repeating the view of the Quest report which said that there were 3 penalty shouts.I didn’t think the first 2 were either,but the 3rd one in the 2nd half should’ve been given.So swansea potentially lost another 2 points because he didn’t give it.
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