| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 15:20 - Feb 7 with 2099 views | PhilmyRs |
Good report, think it’s where I’m at. There was effort and commitment unlike previous cup campaigns. Austin is a concern and you can see why the Manager wanted to add an attacking option. Were we to have signed Lawrence or Paterson, I think Austin would be that cameo man.
In all the time of watching Rangers (so for me from 1990ish) I can count on 1 hand the promotion challenges we’ve had. The Holloway years and the play-off defeat followed by that day in Sheffield, then the Warnock and Adel champions season and finally the Harry years. I genuinely can’t place what of those Teams this one most resembles.
Is Willock our Adel? Not sure but he’s bloody good. Is getting Albert and the genuine warmth current players speak of when chatting Rangers (see Jimmy Dunne’s and many other interviews) reconnecting with fans like the Holloway Team? Is the tightening up of the defence and bringing in experience such a Hendrick and Marshall a statement that we’re going to use experience to ‘get us over the line” Harry style?
I wouldn’t be surprised if we miss out on the play-offs, a top striker short for me but at the same time the heart, passion and togetherness of the team “could” put this season right up there. I just can’t be sure whether it will go down as a Team full of genuine legends that achieved what seemed the impossible or one to expand the Forever Rs club. |  | |  |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 15:24 - Feb 7 with 2082 views | nix |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 13:22 - Feb 7 by Burnleyhoop |
We were at our very best last season when we had JoJo, Field, Willock and Chair occupying the midfield. How often this season have we had that four playing at the same time?
Genuine question……… |
Good point but also have to remember we were probably more an unknown quantity in January last season. This season other managers know our strengths and are better at neutralising them. Barnsley and Derby last season prime examples but other teams are also doing it this season, like Swansea at home, Peterborough away (twice) etc. Teams do a high press stopping us bringing it out from defence, foul our wingbacks, put two players on Willock at all times and break up play with fouls and feigned injuries to prevent us getting into a rhythm. |  | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 16:14 - Feb 7 with 1992 views | PinnerPaul |
Thanks Clive, very balanced view.
As you say, not sure you can say we 'threw' the match - no one was saying that when the team was announced - and agree totally that it was previously very annoying/stupid/futile to be 'saving' ourselves for the big push to erm........14th each season, but as it stood before KO yesterday bookies had us at 100/1 for the cup and 3/1 for promotion, now even ignoring the argument about what would be 'best' for the club - a cup win or promotion - its pretty obvious what should be our priority.
Accept the fact that the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, which complicates things!
I am going to finish with a repeated moan though, if MW feels that playing Weds - Sat is something to be avoided then the resting of players should hardly come as a shock. | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 18:34 - Feb 7 with 1845 views | derbyhoop |
It was one of those days. We were the better side for most of the game, had far more possession, far more attempts but we couldn't hit the target often enough. I suspect if Albert had scored in the first minutes of the 2nd half, we would have gone onto win comfortably.
It would have been great to have a lucrative tie with Man City and all the publicity that would have brought. But the priority has to be promotion. We'll not get such a good chance for a long time.
If we do go up, we'll keep the younger players, replace some of the old guard and be well placed to keep moving forward. Although an immediate relegation shouldn't be the end of the world.
If we fall short then there will be sales. Dieng, Dickie, Dunne, Chair, Willock and Dykes have all attracted interest and 1 or 2 will almost certainly go. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 22:51 - Feb 7 with 1652 views | Myke |
I'm not sure I agree with the notion that one good game against a top prem team somehow adds millions to your valuation. If you were to follow that train of thought, then Lumley is now worth £10m for saving Ronaldo's penalty, which is clearly not the case.
We saw from Clive's interview with our head of recruitment that due diligence is carried out on most of our potential transfer candidates. I say 'most' because clearly Marshall and Hendrick were more 'spur of the moment' transfers for different reasons. But the majority, according to that interview, involve months of checking to see if they fulfill the criteria needed for the club before being signed. If we do it, then you can be sure every prem team (except Newcastle maybe) does it to the nth degree, before signing anyone. That being the case, Dickie getting a goal-saving block on Sterling, or Chair curling one into the top corner against Ederson, won't put too many extra zeros on the end of the cheque. Have a consistently impactful season, however, that contributes to your team being promotion contenders, will. Plus all the other variables like age, contract length etc, of course. | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 23:07 - Feb 7 with 1638 views | Northernr |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 22:51 - Feb 7 by Myke |
I'm not sure I agree with the notion that one good game against a top prem team somehow adds millions to your valuation. If you were to follow that train of thought, then Lumley is now worth £10m for saving Ronaldo's penalty, which is clearly not the case.
We saw from Clive's interview with our head of recruitment that due diligence is carried out on most of our potential transfer candidates. I say 'most' because clearly Marshall and Hendrick were more 'spur of the moment' transfers for different reasons. But the majority, according to that interview, involve months of checking to see if they fulfill the criteria needed for the club before being signed. If we do it, then you can be sure every prem team (except Newcastle maybe) does it to the nth degree, before signing anyone. That being the case, Dickie getting a goal-saving block on Sterling, or Chair curling one into the top corner against Ederson, won't put too many extra zeros on the end of the cheque. Have a consistently impactful season, however, that contributes to your team being promotion contenders, will. Plus all the other variables like age, contract length etc, of course. |
But... it wouldn't hurt? |  | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 00:26 - Feb 8 with 1569 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 15:24 - Feb 7 by nix |
Good point but also have to remember we were probably more an unknown quantity in January last season. This season other managers know our strengths and are better at neutralising them. Barnsley and Derby last season prime examples but other teams are also doing it this season, like Swansea at home, Peterborough away (twice) etc. Teams do a high press stopping us bringing it out from defence, foul our wingbacks, put two players on Willock at all times and break up play with fouls and feigned injuries to prevent us getting into a rhythm. |
True Nix, but Chair and Willock have had another 30 ish games of championship football under their belts and have improved accordingly. Both can handle the extra attention, as seen particularly by Willock in recent games. The combination of Wallace, Chair and Willock down our left side will take some stopping when they are on song and we have missed that combination for most of this season.
Hopefully all 3 are back with a bang on Wednesday. | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 00:42 - Feb 8 with 1560 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 22:51 - Feb 7 by Myke |
I'm not sure I agree with the notion that one good game against a top prem team somehow adds millions to your valuation. If you were to follow that train of thought, then Lumley is now worth £10m for saving Ronaldo's penalty, which is clearly not the case.
We saw from Clive's interview with our head of recruitment that due diligence is carried out on most of our potential transfer candidates. I say 'most' because clearly Marshall and Hendrick were more 'spur of the moment' transfers for different reasons. But the majority, according to that interview, involve months of checking to see if they fulfill the criteria needed for the club before being signed. If we do it, then you can be sure every prem team (except Newcastle maybe) does it to the nth degree, before signing anyone. That being the case, Dickie getting a goal-saving block on Sterling, or Chair curling one into the top corner against Ederson, won't put too many extra zeros on the end of the cheque. Have a consistently impactful season, however, that contributes to your team being promotion contenders, will. Plus all the other variables like age, contract length etc, of course. |
I don’t remember Lumley saving it Myke, I think Ronaldo scuffed it wide of the post 😂
With regard to due diligence, it’s fair to say that the club continues to follow the path of personal and statistical analysis, but the Hendricks opportunity was, as you say, spur of the moment and too good an opportunity to pass up. He is only on loan until the end of the season but brings Premiership quality and experience for our last 18 games only. Much rather see him coming on than Dozzell when the need arises!
For the record…….still fancy Dozzell to come good……providing he gets another season under our the guidance of our coaching staff and plenty of game time. Can’t see him getting much, if any game time if we get promoted. | | | |
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| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 05:44 - Feb 8 with 1513 views | Devon_4_England |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 22:08 - Feb 6 by ParkRoyalR |
Great work digging the bones out of that one, was in the side stand yesterday and thought there was a clear handball for their 1st goal and thought Dykes was tripped from behind around the 83rd'ish minute for what I thought was a clear penalty.
Different view from where we stood but interested if those stood behind the goal saw or thought the same on theses two key incidents. |
Definite handball in the build up to their goal
Looked a pen but by then it was one of those days |  | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 08:31 - Feb 8 with 1454 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 05:44 - Feb 8 by Devon_4_England |
Definite handball in the build up to their goal
Looked a pen but by then it was one of those days |
Maybe, but them scoring first set the tone for the game where we had to commit and with 5 subs they had the extra legs so as not to tire in latter stages of the game as teams normally do defending against Willock, Adomah etc
Plus if we'd scored blatant penalty imo we still had maybe 12 minutes left to equalise, force extra time, win on penalties and still get our train home! | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 11:03 - Feb 8 with 1369 views | francisbowles |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 16:14 - Feb 7 by PinnerPaul |
Thanks Clive, very balanced view.
As you say, not sure you can say we 'threw' the match - no one was saying that when the team was announced - and agree totally that it was previously very annoying/stupid/futile to be 'saving' ourselves for the big push to erm........14th each season, but as it stood before KO yesterday bookies had us at 100/1 for the cup and 3/1 for promotion, now even ignoring the argument about what would be 'best' for the club - a cup win or promotion - its pretty obvious what should be our priority.
Accept the fact that the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, which complicates things!
I am going to finish with a repeated moan though, if MW feels that playing Weds - Sat is something to be avoided then the resting of players should hardly come as a shock. |
Sorry Pinner, I've tried but I can't let that moan go unchallenged.
These are elite athletes. If you want peak physical and mental performance then you have to follow the science. They know the individual, his fitness levels, his mental state. Without proper rest and scheduling of games then one or both of those levels will dip and risk of injury will increase.
The schedule in the Championship is erratic and mad. Look at our fixtures three successive weeks with midweek fixtures, then two weeks without, then another week with, followed by the international break. Then we go on another crazy six in 22 days of which four are long away trips. Any injury could result in missing multiple games.
It may have been a thing throughout the history of the game but the game has moved on, it is much more athletic and intense.
It is sad that we couldn't risk Willock and Barbet for the cup but understandable. We have lost Jamie, Ale and Akos to serious long term injuries in cup ties in the relative recent past. It is why we have added players in the window as we are sure to pick up some knocks and we need more cover. This Middlesbrough game is huge. They are the form team, have plenty of pace and it could either open up a nine point gap for us over them, and maybe seventh place, or close it to three points. | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 15:52 - Feb 8 with 1294 views | PinnerPaul |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 11:03 - Feb 8 by francisbowles |
Sorry Pinner, I've tried but I can't let that moan go unchallenged.
These are elite athletes. If you want peak physical and mental performance then you have to follow the science. They know the individual, his fitness levels, his mental state. Without proper rest and scheduling of games then one or both of those levels will dip and risk of injury will increase.
The schedule in the Championship is erratic and mad. Look at our fixtures three successive weeks with midweek fixtures, then two weeks without, then another week with, followed by the international break. Then we go on another crazy six in 22 days of which four are long away trips. Any injury could result in missing multiple games.
It may have been a thing throughout the history of the game but the game has moved on, it is much more athletic and intense.
It is sad that we couldn't risk Willock and Barbet for the cup but understandable. We have lost Jamie, Ale and Akos to serious long term injuries in cup ties in the relative recent past. It is why we have added players in the window as we are sure to pick up some knocks and we need more cover. This Middlesbrough game is huge. They are the form team, have plenty of pace and it could either open up a nine point gap for us over them, and maybe seventh place, or close it to three points. |
I get the game has moved on, but last time I looked it hadn't moved on from teams, EVERYWHERE, playing Weds - Sat - I am still bemused as to why we requested the Sat to be moved and even more bemused that the EFL allowed it.
If its such a 'thing', why haven't we asked for the Barnsley game to be moved? | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 16:22 - Feb 8 with 1271 views | NewBee |
"QPR had 72% of the ball, and 16 shots to Peterborough’s three, though to lean on such stats risks veering into Thomas Frank levels of delusion and hubris. We lost because, of those 16, only three were on target."
The whole point about statistics is not how to compile them, but how to analyse them.
And I doubt TF would be deceived by "72%" and "16 shots" etc if the rest of the performance was so poor as you say. Rather I suspect he'd be wondering how/why his team only managed to test the gk of a poor defensive team just three times in 90 minutes.
Anyhow, to get back to your overall point re cup games being a distraction from the League, versus an opportunity to boost morale etc, Bees have a clear policy on this.
Our owner is adamant that for BFC at least, cups are an unwanted distraction., pointing eg to a discernable drop in performances before and after we drew Chelsea in the FA Cup back in 2017. | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 16:27 - Feb 8 with 1265 views | Northernr |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 16:22 - Feb 8 by NewBee |
"QPR had 72% of the ball, and 16 shots to Peterborough’s three, though to lean on such stats risks veering into Thomas Frank levels of delusion and hubris. We lost because, of those 16, only three were on target."
The whole point about statistics is not how to compile them, but how to analyse them.
And I doubt TF would be deceived by "72%" and "16 shots" etc if the rest of the performance was so poor as you say. Rather I suspect he'd be wondering how/why his team only managed to test the gk of a poor defensive team just three times in 90 minutes.
Anyhow, to get back to your overall point re cup games being a distraction from the League, versus an opportunity to boost morale etc, Bees have a clear policy on this.
Our owner is adamant that for BFC at least, cups are an unwanted distraction., pointing eg to a discernable drop in performances before and after we drew Chelsea in the FA Cup back in 2017. |
Didn't he, not three weeks ago, after losing to Man Utd, describe such talk of taking chances as "all that crap".
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 17:05 - Feb 8 with 1191 views | NewBee |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 16:27 - Feb 8 by Northernr |
Didn't he, not three weeks ago, after losing to Man Utd, describe such talk of taking chances as "all that crap".
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Exactly! He called it "crap", because such talk of "taking chances"misses the point.
That point being that in the long run, performances are much more important than results, since football being a random game, individual results can go against you in the short term, but over the long term your performances get you the results you deserve.
As for the Man U game, TF was naturally frustrated immediately post-match that we didn't take our chances so as to be out of sight by half time. But he actually concentrated on the fact that managerial genius Ralf Rangnick changed the system of the mighty Man U to counter little old tinpot Brentford and came away with an undeserved result. (And even then it took a world-class display from De Gea to save MU's skin.)
But after he calmed down with a glass of wine I'm sure he'll have been more concerned by how we fell away in the second half, and would have been even had we managed to scrape a draw, or even a win.
Meaning that with your game vs Posh, if the underlying performance was still ok, then MW won't get nearly so disconcerted as if you had played really badly but had somehow scraped a result.
Remember, he's got a statistical background, too, long before he came to work for Benham. | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 17:20 - Feb 8 with 1163 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 17:05 - Feb 8 by NewBee |
Exactly! He called it "crap", because such talk of "taking chances"misses the point.
That point being that in the long run, performances are much more important than results, since football being a random game, individual results can go against you in the short term, but over the long term your performances get you the results you deserve.
As for the Man U game, TF was naturally frustrated immediately post-match that we didn't take our chances so as to be out of sight by half time. But he actually concentrated on the fact that managerial genius Ralf Rangnick changed the system of the mighty Man U to counter little old tinpot Brentford and came away with an undeserved result. (And even then it took a world-class display from De Gea to save MU's skin.)
But after he calmed down with a glass of wine I'm sure he'll have been more concerned by how we fell away in the second half, and would have been even had we managed to scrape a draw, or even a win.
Meaning that with your game vs Posh, if the underlying performance was still ok, then MW won't get nearly so disconcerted as if you had played really badly but had somehow scraped a result.
Remember, he's got a statistical background, too, long before he came to work for Benham. |
Not a stats man myself but having grown up in West London reckon the stats on Brentford indulging a complete bellend of a stadium announcer and a hysterical and deluded Manager must be as close to 100% as is possible. | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 18:14 - Feb 8 with 1117 views | denhamhoop2 |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 16:22 - Feb 8 by NewBee |
"QPR had 72% of the ball, and 16 shots to Peterborough’s three, though to lean on such stats risks veering into Thomas Frank levels of delusion and hubris. We lost because, of those 16, only three were on target."
The whole point about statistics is not how to compile them, but how to analyse them.
And I doubt TF would be deceived by "72%" and "16 shots" etc if the rest of the performance was so poor as you say. Rather I suspect he'd be wondering how/why his team only managed to test the gk of a poor defensive team just three times in 90 minutes.
Anyhow, to get back to your overall point re cup games being a distraction from the League, versus an opportunity to boost morale etc, Bees have a clear policy on this.
Our owner is adamant that for BFC at least, cups are an unwanted distraction., pointing eg to a discernable drop in performances before and after we drew Chelsea in the FA Cup back in 2017. |
Then why bpther entering at all and if so why not just play the Under 23s to give them game time | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 18:17 - Feb 8 with 1110 views | PinnerPaul |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 16:27 - Feb 8 by Northernr |
Didn't he, not three weeks ago, after losing to Man Utd, describe such talk of taking chances as "all that crap".
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Yep he did indeed! | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 19:31 - Feb 8 with 1065 views | NewBee |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 18:14 - Feb 8 by denhamhoop2 |
Then why bpther entering at all and if so why not just play the Under 23s to give them game time |
Isn't it a condition of FA membership that clubs enter the FA Cup?
Istr a few years back, Man Utd had to get a special dispensation not to enter one year, when it unavoidably clashed with a World Club Championship?
While Bees generally do field a weakened team, in the early rounds at least.
Anyhow, I personally would always have been inclined to treat the Cups very seriously, but am prepared to bow to Brentford's better judgement and experience. | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 20:51 - Feb 8 with 1019 views | daveB |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 15:52 - Feb 8 by PinnerPaul |
I get the game has moved on, but last time I looked it hadn't moved on from teams, EVERYWHERE, playing Weds - Sat - I am still bemused as to why we requested the Sat to be moved and even more bemused that the EFL allowed it.
If its such a 'thing', why haven't we asked for the Barnsley game to be moved? |
We did ask for it to be moved which is why the game is kicking off at 3pm rather than 8 on Saturday
The Wednesday/Saturday thing is about travel, if we are home the wednesday Warburton never complains it's the long trip home the Wednesday night and then playing the Saturday which is why Peterbrough was moved. |  | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 21:52 - Feb 8 with 969 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 19:31 - Feb 8 by NewBee |
Isn't it a condition of FA membership that clubs enter the FA Cup?
Istr a few years back, Man Utd had to get a special dispensation not to enter one year, when it unavoidably clashed with a World Club Championship?
While Bees generally do field a weakened team, in the early rounds at least.
Anyhow, I personally would always have been inclined to treat the Cups very seriously, but am prepared to bow to Brentford's better judgement and experience. |
Brentford's better judgement and experience on cup competitions...based on never winning one!
Surely contributing to the numerous threads on your own forum obsessing about QPR and Mark Warburton is a better home for such insightful contributions? | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 22:23 - Feb 8 with 945 views | NewBee |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 21:52 - Feb 8 by ParkRoyalR |
Brentford's better judgement and experience on cup competitions...based on never winning one!
Surely contributing to the numerous threads on your own forum obsessing about QPR and Mark Warburton is a better home for such insightful contributions? |
No, the better judgement is prioritising the league over cup competitions.
And it seems to be producing decent results in recent years, all things considered.
As for "my own forum", I'd say it's hardly surprising that Bees fans should take an interest in a former manager who's now in charge of a neighbouring club with whom we've tangled quite a bit in the last few seasons.
While rather than just agreeing with my fellow fans about the same old topics all the time over there, I sometimes like to pop in here to chew the fat and hear alternative views on stuff.
If that's ok with you, that is. | | | |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 22:33 - Feb 8 with 935 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Too many bloody repeats - Report on 22:23 - Feb 8 by NewBee |
No, the better judgement is prioritising the league over cup competitions.
And it seems to be producing decent results in recent years, all things considered.
As for "my own forum", I'd say it's hardly surprising that Bees fans should take an interest in a former manager who's now in charge of a neighbouring club with whom we've tangled quite a bit in the last few seasons.
While rather than just agreeing with my fellow fans about the same old topics all the time over there, I sometimes like to pop in here to chew the fat and hear alternative views on stuff.
If that's ok with you, that is. |
An interest in a former Manager, more like an infantile obsession, especially since you've had 3 Managers since.
Bees lad (ex United) at work reckons his forum is full of angst with right-wing youth bickering with your older hooli's -the latter yet another complete Brentford fantasy invention, like QPR's supposed takeover.
If I was you I'd stick over there as sounds like comedy gold. | | | |
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