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Match officials today.... 21:05 - Feb 19 with 6927 viewsWatfordR

Either this was the worst collective performance I think I've seen at LR, or the laws of the game are now so convoluted that it's impossible for officials to be wrong no matter what they do.

I'm going to watch the full match back again as and when it's available, but I'm struggling to think of one major decision they got right:

Neither the ref of the lino knew whether the Hull goal had crossed the line - it clearly had

Forss should have been red carded just before half time - ref saw nothing, the fourth official did see something, but presumably not the kick, right in front of him

Albert was completely cleaned out by Ingram and that ought to have been a pen

Albert's goal should have stood - astonishing that neither ref nor linesman apparently saw the deflection that played him on irrespective of where the lino thought he was in the lead up

Countless offside decisions ruled incorrectly, including the ludicrous flagging of Albert in the first half after the crossfield pass which their LB got caught under. It simply isn't possible for the lino to be looking at where Albert was at the same time the ball was played from 50 yards away on the other side of the pitch.

The Ingram incident which I clocked via the scoreboard as having been near enough sixteen minutes. So all the time wasting by them, all the watch pointing by the ref, all that added up to -1 extra minutes.

Clear corner for us just before the end given as a goal kick

Just utter ineptitude. Can't be arsed listening to all the "well these things will even themselves out". I'd rather I wasn't having to keep count of the hopeless decisions and trying to work out whether we won or lost on aggregate over the season. There's enough money in the game to pay and train full time officials so that we don't have to put up with such a lottery of incompetence every single game.
[Post edited 19 Feb 21:12]
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Match officials today.... on 21:23 - Feb 19 with 2981 viewspaulhoop2

Refs have goal line watches so most definitely knew it was over but all other comments I agree with the 4th is hopeless has been for years interestingly Tim Robinson usually officiates as a team with Keith Stroud possibly the rumours are true and he’s banned from reffing us ?

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Match officials today.... on 21:24 - Feb 19 with 2964 viewsderbyhoop

From what I saw the problem was that the ARs seemed to guess too many decisions. Ref was OK but let down by others.

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Match officials today.... on 21:27 - Feb 19 with 2955 viewsWatfordR

Match officials today.... on 21:23 - Feb 19 by paulhoop2

Refs have goal line watches so most definitely knew it was over but all other comments I agree with the 4th is hopeless has been for years interestingly Tim Robinson usually officiates as a team with Keith Stroud possibly the rumours are true and he’s banned from reffing us ?


Yes they have goal line watches and it was that which gave the goal. As I said, neither the ref or more particularly the lino had a clue, the lino made not signal to flag for the goal, just wandered back to halfway once the ref awarded it.
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Match officials today.... on 21:33 - Feb 19 with 2922 viewsDannytheR

Agreed. There was a lot to pick over with our performance today, good and bad, but as a competitive game of football, it was ruined by the officials. I try not to let myself get wound up by refs and linos, but they are the *only* people responsible for the result today.

These people are professionals, at least theoretically. They get paid for what they do. They need to get a lot fcking better at it, as do the people responsible for them.
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Match officials today.... on 21:53 - Feb 19 with 2811 viewsdixiedean

I think Clive is going to be on his long run when the question of time wasting is discussed. How can the ref expect to be taken seriously as a human being never mind as a ref , when he allows people to blatantly take the pi55 out of him ?
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Match officials today.... on 21:55 - Feb 19 with 2791 viewsStanisgod

Match officials today.... on 21:24 - Feb 19 by derbyhoop

From what I saw the problem was that the ARs seemed to guess too many decisions. Ref was OK but let down by others.


If the ref was ok, I was at a different game.
[Post edited 19 Feb 21:55]

It's being so happy that keeps me going.

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Match officials today.... on 22:06 - Feb 19 with 2746 viewsthehat

Without doubt dreadful refereeing today we got nothing not one 50/50 decision went our way.

The not given corner at the end was a shocker to top it off.

I did however think we got all the decisions away at Bristol City so maybe things do even themselves up……
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Match officials today.... on 22:12 - Feb 19 with 2700 viewsCliveWilsonSaid

I mean I can forgive a few dodgy decisions but if Adomahs offside goal was wrong as is being suggested. Then that's just incredible really. I didn't think he looked off at the time but just accepted the decision. Unbelievable if true.
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Match officials today.... on 22:16 - Feb 19 with 2660 viewseastside_r

Completely agree with OP. All officials were terrible.
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Match officials today.... on 22:20 - Feb 19 with 2632 viewsstevec

I was there and I’m not sure why the ref is getting so much stick.

It was the lino’s fault if Albert was onside, it was also the Lino who missed Hulls goal not the ref, yes Forss could have been sent off but from the angle the fourth official would have had a better view than the ref. Albert was not cleaned out by Ingram, Albert was on the blind side and if anything the ref could easily have given a free kick the other way. Ingram was laid out for 12 minutes so 15 overall was about right and finally our player was the last to touch for the goal kick the ref gave near the end.
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Match officials today.... on 22:31 - Feb 19 with 2587 viewsCliveWilsonSaid

Match officials today.... on 22:20 - Feb 19 by stevec

I was there and I’m not sure why the ref is getting so much stick.

It was the lino’s fault if Albert was onside, it was also the Lino who missed Hulls goal not the ref, yes Forss could have been sent off but from the angle the fourth official would have had a better view than the ref. Albert was not cleaned out by Ingram, Albert was on the blind side and if anything the ref could easily have given a free kick the other way. Ingram was laid out for 12 minutes so 15 overall was about right and finally our player was the last to touch for the goal kick the ref gave near the end.


Well when you put it like that Steve.

I was there too and like I said I can forgive a few dodgy decisions. In time I'll forgive a wrong offside call for Alberts goal. Not yet though.
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Match officials today.... on 22:41 - Feb 19 with 2556 viewsWatfordR

Match officials today.... on 22:20 - Feb 19 by stevec

I was there and I’m not sure why the ref is getting so much stick.

It was the lino’s fault if Albert was onside, it was also the Lino who missed Hulls goal not the ref, yes Forss could have been sent off but from the angle the fourth official would have had a better view than the ref. Albert was not cleaned out by Ingram, Albert was on the blind side and if anything the ref could easily have given a free kick the other way. Ingram was laid out for 12 minutes so 15 overall was about right and finally our player was the last to touch for the goal kick the ref gave near the end.


In fairness, this thread isn't just about the ref, it's about all four officials.

Albert's goal, well the lino may have wrongly thought he was offside, but if the ref hasn't seen the defender deflect the ball, I've no idea what he could possibly have been watching. If he sees it, he has to overrule the linesman because where Albert was at any stage is irrelevant.

The Ingram incident, Ingram was never getting the ball, knew he wasn't getting it, and knew Albert was coming in, and made sure he impeded Albert.

Thirdly, I don't care what the official timing on Ingram's treatment was, the clock on the scoreboard said 51+ minutes when the incident occurred, and 67+ minutes when he finally left the pitch

Fourthly, the Hull goalies had been wasting time on kickouts all bloody second half, and their team generally wasting time with throw ins , that fat pr1ck of a ref had been tapping his watch on every occasion to suggest he was adding time and three minutes was ridiculous, it ought to have been at least twice that.

And finally, the last player to touch the ball late on was most certainly theirs and it was a corner, but the ref once again got a decision wrong.

The officials as a team were just embarrassingly bad, and as I say, with the money sloshing about in football, it's time we had full time professionals officiating, not out of condition part timers.
[Post edited 19 Feb 22:45]
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Match officials today.... on 23:18 - Feb 19 with 2423 viewstoboboly

Match officials today.... on 22:31 - Feb 19 by CliveWilsonSaid

Well when you put it like that Steve.

I was there too and like I said I can forgive a few dodgy decisions. In time I'll forgive a wrong offside call for Alberts goal. Not yet though.


Thing is we are the ellerslie side of the loft and there was a fairly obvious touch off the hull defender which makes the offside null and void no matter what

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Match officials today.... on 23:58 - Feb 19 with 2362 viewsCliveWilsonSaid

Match officials today.... on 23:18 - Feb 19 by toboboly

Thing is we are the ellerslie side of the loft and there was a fairly obvious touch off the hull defender which makes the offside null and void no matter what


I saw it too. It was a goal mate if ever I've saw one. Not offside no foul. A winning goal.

It wasn't given though. In fact it was disallowed and there isn't anything that can be done now.

I will be less accepting of decisions by officials from now on. Yep.
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Match officials today.... on 00:24 - Feb 20 with 2267 viewstoboboly

Match officials today.... on 23:58 - Feb 19 by CliveWilsonSaid

I saw it too. It was a goal mate if ever I've saw one. Not offside no foul. A winning goal.

It wasn't given though. In fact it was disallowed and there isn't anything that can be done now.

I will be less accepting of decisions by officials from now on. Yep.


Not at all, i know you know, just saying that the lino had an easy out and didnt take it. Took the Spurs supporting wife today and although i reckon were now her favourite team she did say on the way home that sone of the decisions were mad. She knows her stuff ergo is right.

Sexy Asian dwarves wanted.

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Match officials today.... on 00:53 - Feb 20 with 2236 viewsnix

Just saying, we've had this ref 14 times. We've only won three of them, drawn two and lost NINE. I don't think he likes us much.
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Match officials today.... on 07:35 - Feb 20 with 2086 viewsozranger

I'm sorry but I cannot let this continue. Where's Pinner?

Since when did the off-side rule alter? If a player is in an offside position at the time when the ball was initially kicked by a team-mate then that player is off-side if he then participates or interferes with play, irrelevant if there is a deflection, no matter how much that deflection is.

Say an attacker stands on the six yard box with everyone else bar the keeper outside the penalty box. A shot is taken from distance and it is deflected off a defender to that attacker on the six yard box who then puts the ball in the net. You are now saying he was not offside because the initial shot was deflected off a defender. Not in my book and to my knowledge not in any refereeing book either.

Now, I am not saying that Albert was in an offside position at the time when Willock took his shot, but if he was, he was offside as he immediately took advantage of being there to then participate in the attack.
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Match officials today.... on 08:35 - Feb 20 with 2003 viewsactonman

Apart from all the obvious fk ups with the officials today , what really got my goat was every time their keeper fluffed about with a goal kick , ref had a word pointed to his watch then turned round and slowly jogged off towards the centre circle instead of making sure the kick was taken quickly .
I actually think the ref must have been saying
“Ok I’m going to turn round now and completely ignore what’s going on behind me so if you give me a couple of mins to get back to the middle that would be great thanks “
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Match officials today.... on 08:47 - Feb 20 with 1969 viewsMick_S

Match officials today.... on 07:35 - Feb 20 by ozranger

I'm sorry but I cannot let this continue. Where's Pinner?

Since when did the off-side rule alter? If a player is in an offside position at the time when the ball was initially kicked by a team-mate then that player is off-side if he then participates or interferes with play, irrelevant if there is a deflection, no matter how much that deflection is.

Say an attacker stands on the six yard box with everyone else bar the keeper outside the penalty box. A shot is taken from distance and it is deflected off a defender to that attacker on the six yard box who then puts the ball in the net. You are now saying he was not offside because the initial shot was deflected off a defender. Not in my book and to my knowledge not in any refereeing book either.

Now, I am not saying that Albert was in an offside position at the time when Willock took his shot, but if he was, he was offside as he immediately took advantage of being there to then participate in the attack.


I think you are right, oz. I’m not sure as many of the rules now confuse me. I believe the deflection is irrelevant if a player is in an offside position. Using your analogy, the player would have not been offside if he received the ball via a bad back pass by an opposing player ie no deflection. I think.

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Match officials today.... on 09:13 - Feb 20 with 1914 viewswortonranger

Not there...watching in Estonia..but at least I got to see replays. Not a penalty....total accident and Its a shame we are more bothered about that than poor Mat’s state of health, the deflection re non goal is irrelevant as clearly explained already..a decision that needed VAR which most on here are against, it was a goal kick at the end and the kick out was hard to see but might come in for attention in any review. The time when they missed a sitter did look a mile off at first but was closer on the replay.
Reminds me of the horrendous running the line by biased dads..and mums..that takes place at kids matches every weekend! How many of you are guilty of that?
We didn’t win because we didn’t make enough chances. Simples.
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Match officials today.... on 09:15 - Feb 20 with 1895 viewsstowmarketrange

Match officials today.... on 08:47 - Feb 20 by Mick_S

I think you are right, oz. I’m not sure as many of the rules now confuse me. I believe the deflection is irrelevant if a player is in an offside position. Using your analogy, the player would have not been offside if he received the ball via a bad back pass by an opposing player ie no deflection. I think.

PINNER! Ou est-tu?


I’m often told by refs on Sunday mornings that I should only flag for offside if a player in an offside position actually touches the ball,but yesterday Albert looked level with their defender,so technically onside.The officials gave us nothing all game,so I wasn’t surprised that it was disallowed.
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Match officials today.... on 09:26 - Feb 20 with 1861 viewstoboboly

Match officials today.... on 07:35 - Feb 20 by ozranger

I'm sorry but I cannot let this continue. Where's Pinner?

Since when did the off-side rule alter? If a player is in an offside position at the time when the ball was initially kicked by a team-mate then that player is off-side if he then participates or interferes with play, irrelevant if there is a deflection, no matter how much that deflection is.

Say an attacker stands on the six yard box with everyone else bar the keeper outside the penalty box. A shot is taken from distance and it is deflected off a defender to that attacker on the six yard box who then puts the ball in the net. You are now saying he was not offside because the initial shot was deflected off a defender. Not in my book and to my knowledge not in any refereeing book either.

Now, I am not saying that Albert was in an offside position at the time when Willock took his shot, but if he was, he was offside as he immediately took advantage of being there to then participate in the attack.


Apologies I thought it was covered by this bit;

"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent."

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Match officials today.... on 09:35 - Feb 20 with 1847 viewsdavman

Match officials today.... on 09:26 - Feb 20 by toboboly

Apologies I thought it was covered by this bit;

"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent."


No, that is if a defender passes the ball to an attacker directly. In this case, as I said earlier, if it is played forward by an attacker before it hits the defender, then the offside is judged at the time the ball was played by the attacker. I thought he was onside watching live from behind the goal in the Upper Loft, but looking at the stills and the available video, it is really, really tight.

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Match officials today.... on 10:14 - Feb 20 with 1773 viewsQPunkR

Match officials today.... on 09:13 - Feb 20 by wortonranger

Not there...watching in Estonia..but at least I got to see replays. Not a penalty....total accident and Its a shame we are more bothered about that than poor Mat’s state of health, the deflection re non goal is irrelevant as clearly explained already..a decision that needed VAR which most on here are against, it was a goal kick at the end and the kick out was hard to see but might come in for attention in any review. The time when they missed a sitter did look a mile off at first but was closer on the replay.
Reminds me of the horrendous running the line by biased dads..and mums..that takes place at kids matches every weekend! How many of you are guilty of that?
We didn’t win because we didn’t make enough chances. Simples.


Well said that man

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Match officials today.... on 10:37 - Feb 20 with 1701 viewsWatfordR

Match officials today.... on 09:35 - Feb 20 by davman

No, that is if a defender passes the ball to an attacker directly. In this case, as I said earlier, if it is played forward by an attacker before it hits the defender, then the offside is judged at the time the ball was played by the attacker. I thought he was onside watching live from behind the goal in the Upper Loft, but looking at the stills and the available video, it is really, really tight.


Ok, I'm pretty sure that Pinner Paul has explained all this before, with regards to players in offside positions not being flagged until they touch the ball. If I've got this wrong, my apologies particularly to Pinner.

Being stood in an offside position is not an offence. Makes sense, I don't think anyone would expect a player stood offside receiving a pass from one of the opposition to be flagged.

Had the shot yesterday been turned in directly by Albert, without the opposition touching the ball, and he had been offside in the build up, then it wasn't a goal. However, once the defender deflects the ball, that becomes a new phase of play. The defender having the last touch means that none of our players can be considered offside and the goal should have stood.

I don't think it makes any difference if it's a deflection off a defender, or a misdirected pass from a defender. But actually it's a deliberate effort by the defender to block the shot, rather than a deflection which he knew nothing about. So, as far as I can see, that was a goal, and the only reason that there should have been any doubt about awarding it, is if neither ref or lino saw the defender touch the ball. I cannot understand how the ref could not have seen it from where he was positioned.
[Post edited 20 Feb 10:38]
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