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What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 10:19 - Aug 9 by terryb
Does anyone really know if Willock is refusing to sign a new contract?
I've not read/heard of this until this thread & now I'm seeing that this is gospel!
No it's still an 'if', but you'd think we'd be pushing for that now to avoid a Bright situation so I guess we'll find out. His signing was challenging in the first place, I hear the dad is quite 'hands on' in these things with the three Willock brothers, so I'm not hopeful but we'll see. He could have his pick of half of Europe on a free transfer.
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What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 10:38 - Aug 9 with 2502 views
What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 10:30 - Aug 9 by Northernr
No it's still an 'if', but you'd think we'd be pushing for that now to avoid a Bright situation so I guess we'll find out. His signing was challenging in the first place, I hear the dad is quite 'hands on' in these things with the three Willock brothers, so I'm not hopeful but we'll see. He could have his pick of half of Europe on a free transfer.
If this is the case then what's the point in having our strategy of being a selling club?. Not having a go at Willock but leaves a pretty sour taste in the mouth IF he's just running his contract down. Like you say. We'll just have to wait and see.
Occasional providers of half decent House music.
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What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 10:43 - Aug 9 with 2488 views
What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 10:38 - Aug 9 by PunteR
If this is the case then what's the point in having our strategy of being a selling club?. Not having a go at Willock but leaves a pretty sour taste in the mouth IF he's just running his contract down. Like you say. We'll just have to wait and see.
Well let's be careful about going off down this path before we know. Still definitely an if. Might sign a new deal and we'll all be ecstatic. Given that Eze and Freeman did that and we still sold them I'd hope that shows players the club won't stand in their way and will do right by them if they sign a deal. But, like I say, Chris Willock on a free transfer, there'd be 150 clubs interested in that, Chris Willock for £20m, much fewer options. Plus, you move on a free transfer, your signing on fee and wage increases exponentially.
Another smaller point, possibly something I'm imagining but I did say last season when we refused to discuss new deals with players to the end of the season, you had people having to put their stuff in storage waiting to hear from us whether we were going to do them a deal or not, people like Barbet left to wave goodbye to 150 people after the Sheff Utd game... players will have seen that and have their thoughts on it. Onuoha, Hill, Faurlin have all left QPR under this regime and been very unhappy with how it was dealt with. We can't have any complaints if players, like the club, coldly do what they think is in their best interest.
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What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 10:48 - Aug 9 with 2470 views
What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 10:43 - Aug 9 by Northernr
Well let's be careful about going off down this path before we know. Still definitely an if. Might sign a new deal and we'll all be ecstatic. Given that Eze and Freeman did that and we still sold them I'd hope that shows players the club won't stand in their way and will do right by them if they sign a deal. But, like I say, Chris Willock on a free transfer, there'd be 150 clubs interested in that, Chris Willock for £20m, much fewer options. Plus, you move on a free transfer, your signing on fee and wage increases exponentially.
Another smaller point, possibly something I'm imagining but I did say last season when we refused to discuss new deals with players to the end of the season, you had people having to put their stuff in storage waiting to hear from us whether we were going to do them a deal or not, people like Barbet left to wave goodbye to 150 people after the Sheff Utd game... players will have seen that and have their thoughts on it. Onuoha, Hill, Faurlin have all left QPR under this regime and been very unhappy with how it was dealt with. We can't have any complaints if players, like the club, coldly do what they think is in their best interest.
Realistic appraisal of the scenario as always Clive.
Does anyone know or remember do we have a Lee Hoos option as well as the two years?
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What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 10:49 - Aug 9 with 2467 views
What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 10:38 - Aug 9 by PunteR
If this is the case then what's the point in having our strategy of being a selling club?. Not having a go at Willock but leaves a pretty sour taste in the mouth IF he's just running his contract down. Like you say. We'll just have to wait and see.
Because it's not an exact science and it's a bit more complicated by his injury. If he has a few more good games, someone might well come in for him, if not this month then in January.
We can't tear up a decent strategy because of some setbacks.
Brentford started this a bit earlier than us and it's getting harder to do it now, but we've definitely had some success already and it's worth persevering with. Field looks a prospect and I think Luke might have been without his second knee injury. Not only that but we've seen some great football since we started trying to develop players. Who would've missed out on the Willock goal, Eze, BOS at Birmingham. I'd swap that for any number of Kranjcars, or Sandros.
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What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 10:57 - Aug 9 with 2456 views
What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 08:07 - Aug 9 by Northernr
Sinclair is actually a good example of selling at the right time rather than clinging on and on. We ended up getting £1m and a few waifs and strays from West Ham for a player we'd previously turned down £8m for who subsequently went and played in the World Cup for England. Kept him to "have a go" at getting straight back out of the First Division, and his value depreciated massively as his contract declined and he started agitating for a move. Team, meanwhile, didn't even make the play-offs.
If Willock isn't going to sign a new deal, and doesn't have an option on our side, then either this window or January his value is going to peak. You're on a clock thereafter. If he's going to come back from this injury and play like he did on Saturday I think you're moving him from the £8m-£10m mark where he is now, up towards the sort of money we got for Eze, which of course we then used to buy Willock in the first place. And Dunne. And Dickie. And Field. And Johansen.
This post has been edited by an administrator
This (1st para).
People sometimes talk here about following "the Brentford model".
Aiui, BFC's model includes ascribing a value to every player, and once another club meets that value, he goes, simple as.
That is, there's no waiting to see whether he'll "clinch promotion", or might be" worth more next season", or whether his likely replacement will be "as good/better" etc
Of course it is as much an art as a science to put a valuation on a player and besides, it will change depending on how he continues to perform, injuries, the state of the market and the length of contract remaining etc, but the principle remains.
And as for the quality of his likely replacement, while that is obviously related, nonetheless it must reamain separate i.e. if you aren't consistently scouting and recruiting value-for-money new players, then that is just another problem to fix, alongside that of putting the "correct" valuation on the existing playing staff.
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What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 20:00 - Aug 9 with 2088 views
What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 16:07 - Aug 9 by NewBee
This (1st para).
People sometimes talk here about following "the Brentford model".
Aiui, BFC's model includes ascribing a value to every player, and once another club meets that value, he goes, simple as.
That is, there's no waiting to see whether he'll "clinch promotion", or might be" worth more next season", or whether his likely replacement will be "as good/better" etc
Of course it is as much an art as a science to put a valuation on a player and besides, it will change depending on how he continues to perform, injuries, the state of the market and the length of contract remaining etc, but the principle remains.
And as for the quality of his likely replacement, while that is obviously related, nonetheless it must reamain separate i.e. if you aren't consistently scouting and recruiting value-for-money new players, then that is just another problem to fix, alongside that of putting the "correct" valuation on the existing playing staff.
If all that is true, and the club is run effectively by a marketing exec/CEO's alogrithm , it's a shit principle - in my opinion.
What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 20:00 - Aug 9 by stainrods_elbow
If all that is true, and the club is run effectively by a marketing exec/CEO's alogrithm , it's a shit principle - in my opinion.
While it is overseen by a Director of Football, the very accomplished and experienced Phil Giles, he heads a team which manages this process, and which includes input from the Head Coach.
The point being that it ensures the club doesn't get into financial difficulty (FFP, basically), which could see it "doing a Derby County" etc.
While if done cleverly, it can still permit the building of a successful team, improving season-by-season.
Consequently, while the club had to sell eg star No.9 Neal Maupay for a £20m profit in 2019, then his direct replacement Ollie Watkins for a £28m profit in 2020, by 2021 the club didn't need to sell OW's replacemen, Ivan Toney (signed for £10m), since promotion was achieved.
Now if you asked Giles for IT's current "value", I expect it might be somewhere between £30-45m? But as he disclosed last week, we don't need to sell him in 2022 either.
However, if someone came in with a bid of, say, £60m+, I suspect they'd accept, on the basis that it's peak value; the player surely doesn't want to stay at BFC for the rest of his career anyhow; while with that money, we could buy two or three new players who should make the team stronger overall.
Seems like a good way to run a club to me, at any rate.
P.S. Here's last week's interview with Giles, where he discusses this and a whole lot more. It's nearly an hour and a half long, so I don't expect non-Bees fans to have the interest or patience to wade through it, but it provides a brilliant insight into the "Brentford Model", including transfer policy:
[Post edited 10 Aug 2022 17:12]
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What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 17:44 - Aug 10 with 1801 views
What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 17:11 - Aug 10 by NewBee
While it is overseen by a Director of Football, the very accomplished and experienced Phil Giles, he heads a team which manages this process, and which includes input from the Head Coach.
The point being that it ensures the club doesn't get into financial difficulty (FFP, basically), which could see it "doing a Derby County" etc.
While if done cleverly, it can still permit the building of a successful team, improving season-by-season.
Consequently, while the club had to sell eg star No.9 Neal Maupay for a £20m profit in 2019, then his direct replacement Ollie Watkins for a £28m profit in 2020, by 2021 the club didn't need to sell OW's replacemen, Ivan Toney (signed for £10m), since promotion was achieved.
Now if you asked Giles for IT's current "value", I expect it might be somewhere between £30-45m? But as he disclosed last week, we don't need to sell him in 2022 either.
However, if someone came in with a bid of, say, £60m+, I suspect they'd accept, on the basis that it's peak value; the player surely doesn't want to stay at BFC for the rest of his career anyhow; while with that money, we could buy two or three new players who should make the team stronger overall.
Seems like a good way to run a club to me, at any rate.
P.S. Here's last week's interview with Giles, where he discusses this and a whole lot more. It's nearly an hour and a half long, so I don't expect non-Bees fans to have the interest or patience to wade through it, but it provides a brilliant insight into the "Brentford Model", including transfer policy:
[Post edited 10 Aug 2022 17:12]
The stats model works well when you takeover a club like Brentford who have a very small (but loyal) hardcore fanbase of 6,000 odd and who have been starved of success for generations and never won a trophy.
As clubs like Newcastle and Leeds previously found out, selling your prized assets to other clubs does not go down well with a large and expectant fan-base.
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What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 17:46 - Aug 10 with 1800 views
Wild guess but if we have an option to buy Tyler Roberts from Leeds for allegedly up to £4m which is way above our spend levels, what if there is a plan for this to be offset against a decent fee from Leeds for Willock.
[Post edited 10 Aug 2022 17:49]
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What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 17:54 - Aug 10 with 1775 views
What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 17:44 - Aug 10 by ParkRoyalR
The stats model works well when you takeover a club like Brentford who have a very small (but loyal) hardcore fanbase of 6,000 odd and who have been starved of success for generations and never won a trophy.
As clubs like Newcastle and Leeds previously found out, selling your prized assets to other clubs does not go down well with a large and expectant fan-base.
Every club in the country is a Selling Club bar possibly the two Manc clubs
The key is whether you can use the money to replace them with at least as good, preferably better.
And Leeds/Newcastle's record on this latter is irredeemably crap - hence why neither of them has won anythig of note for decades, either.
Meanwhile, having 40k or 50k diehards instead of 5k just means that Leeds and NUFC just have 8 or 10 times as many deluded dickheads following them as Brentford.
And no club gets anywhere by listening to dickheads.
Including me lol.
[Post edited 10 Aug 2022 17:56]
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What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 17:55 - Aug 10 with 1768 views
What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 07:21 - Aug 10 by BazzaInTheLoft
You demand success in one breath but reject it in another!
Why's that? I thought I was just implying every case/player needs to be assessed on its own merits at the time. And why am I any different from any other fan in wanting success? Get a grip!
What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month? on 17:55 - Aug 10 by stainrods_elbow
Why's that? I thought I was just implying every case/player needs to be assessed on its own merits at the time. And why am I any different from any other fan in wanting success? Get a grip!
You were offered a proven method and you dismissed it. Maybe you'll miss the whining more than the success!
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