Forum | VAR making a difference? by Wilkinswatercarrier

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VAR making a difference? 12:29 - Dec 19 with 6227 views

Did anyone else notice the lack of feigning injury and time wasting going on at the WC? There also seemed to be less abuse of officials compared to previous years.
I can only think that VAR, for all its faults, is making a positive impact. That and added time being correctly added.

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VAR making a difference? on 16:49 - Dec 22 with 1255 views

PinnerPaul

VAR making a difference? on 15:16 - Dec 22 by Northernr

Well statistically, it's actually worse than a referee. This report says 6 out of 46 'overturns' in the first half of the season were wrong - 13%. Most studies of refereeing decisions taken on the field say they get something north of 95% right.

A couple on this list - the Villa sending off at Fulham, the West Ham disallowed goal - were obviously wrong from the first viewing, how they ended up doubling down and down into their protocols to reach the decisions they did I'll never know.

Agree. Far from removing controversary, it has, as you say, added a layer of "How?!" to the errors, because, as even you and I as ardent anti VARists would agree, it IS easier to make a decision with more time and multiple viewings from multiple angles.

I would much rather it be used about as often as GLT, ie for those moments that SydneyRs documents ie about 1 a week or less in each round of PL games. Perhaps, if I'm feeling generous, the obvious offside ones (Like Sunderland!) BUT I'm only in favour then if they stop this ridiculous notion of not flagging immediately for offsides that even I would spot!

VAR making a difference? on 16:50 - Dec 22 with 1255 views

PinnerPaul

VAR making a difference? on 15:32 - Dec 22 by 89_50
Just to jump back to the injury time point, is there an official reason the PGMOL won't be following this? Seems baffling, considering the somewhat positive impact it had during the World Cup, and would give fans a little more actual football to watch, given the ball is only in play something daft like 55 minutes of every 90 at the moment.

As I've said before the reason is the PL (The clubs) have said they don't want to.

VAR making a difference? on 16:55 - Dec 22 with 1246 views

PinnerPaul

VAR making a difference? on 15:51 - Dec 22 by francisbowles

Cheers Pinner.

Agree with you on the technical point, it seems ludicrous.

As for the Argentinian subs, yes they should rewrite the law, or at least start to enforce the current one, to put more emphasis on the needing the ref's permission to enter or leave the field of play. The whole scenario of goal celebrations is out of control and maybe needs modernising. For instance: subs can come on but game restarts in 60 seconds , ready or not, and anyone on the pitch who shouldn't be, at the restart, will get a red card.

I haven't seen the video where the subs come on fractionally early. Were they interfering with the play? I guess not. Point taken though.

As for your final point, there is the advantage law to keep the game flowing. I think it would be positive to refine that as well. Allow the ref to bring the play back to the original offence if no advantage materialises, similar to rugby union, even if you go on to shoot at goal but miss, the play goes back to the foul.

They were no where near the play, but the law actually says that if any extra persons are on the fop when the goal is scored, if they are a player or sub of the team that scored the goal, the goal should be disallowed.

As we said on RefChat - OBVIOUSLY that law is for the once in a lifetime moment when a team has 12 players on the fop, not for instances like this - so just rewrite it, as you say, if not interfering its OK.

6 seconds, make it 10,12, 15 whatever but actually penalise it!

Have a 6 second law but ignore it - whats the point?

VAR making a difference? on 17:18 - Dec 22 with 1210 views

PinnerPaul

Extract from a recent article illustrating my point about who decides what's happening with the laws and their interpretation in this country.

"The Premier League returns to competition on Boxing Day after a six-week break imposed by the winter World Cup. In preparing for the restart, the league revealed a raft of new disciplinary measures but said it was not prepared to imitate the Qatar tournament in adding on time to compensate for lengthy goal celebrations."

VAR making a difference? on 19:22 - Dec 22 with 1183 views

Hastings_Hoops

Just link the refs stopwatch to the score board - stop the clock for every stop in play. Simple.

VAR making a difference? on 11:21 - Dec 23 with 1127 views

LazyFan

VAR making a difference? on 15:16 - Dec 22 by Northernr

It's worse than that.
Refs have a second or maybe a few seconds in the game to make the decision.

VAR can go back and watch the reply a couple of times at least if not more. And VAR can also watch it from different angles that the Ref will not have been able to see clearly.

And VAR still gets it wrong!

zzzzzzzzzz

VAR making a difference? on 11:22 - Dec 23 with 1124 views

Northernr

VAR making a difference? on 11:21 - Dec 23 by LazyFan
It's worse than that. Refs have a second or maybe a few seconds in the game to make the decision. VAR can go back and watch the reply a couple of times at least if not more. And VAR can also watch it from different angles that the Ref will not have been able to see clearly. And VAR still gets it wrong!

Preaching to the choir mate, I completely agree with you.

VAR making a difference? on 11:29 - Dec 23 with 1113 views

stowmarketrange

VAR making a difference? on 11:22 - Dec 23 by Northernr
Preaching to the choir mate, I completely agree with you.

I thought last night’s game was better because there wasn’t VAR available and the players had to just get on with it.

VAR making a difference? on 11:42 - Dec 23 with 1088 views

Northernr

VAR making a difference? on 11:29 - Dec 23 by stowmarketrange
I thought last night’s game was better because there wasn’t VAR available and the players had to just get on with it.

I certainly enjoyed it without this ridiculous situation where if it's blatantly offside, and we all know it's offside, and the players and lino know it's offside, we have to play out a hypothetical situation regardless.

VAR making a difference? on 11:45 - Dec 23 with 1076 views

distortR

On the 'clear and obvious' error point - I feel, and I could well be wrong, that some refs, understandably, aren't making tight calls now, but letting VAR decide. Which is a bit different from deciding that it wasn't a penalty. The ref might think it was a penalty on balance, but let the action play through and see if VAR gives it. In which case the 'clear and obvious' part should be dropped.

VAR making a difference? on 15:09 - Dec 23 with 1001 views

PinnerPaul

The new man's thoughts on VAR. Always liked HW, talks a lot of sense. However 2 things

1) Many have promised and failed to deliver where use of VAR is concerned

2) Back to my point about how much change he can actually bring about given the power of the clubs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo

VAR making a difference? on 15:12 - Dec 23 with 993 views

Northernr

VAR making a difference? on 15:09 - Dec 23 by PinnerPaul
The new man's thoughts on VAR. Always liked HW, talks a lot of sense. However 2 things 1) Many have promised and failed to deliver where use of VAR is concerned 2) Back to my point about how much change he can actually bring about given the power of the clubs. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo

At least it's somebody who was actually a decent referee himself in charge. Always made me laugh that Mike Riley was left in charge of anything other than his own bread bin.

VAR making a difference? on 15:14 - Dec 23 with 993 views

PinnerPaul

VAR making a difference? on 11:22 - Dec 23 by Northernr
Preaching to the choir mate, I completely agree with you.

Yep - and I know its not quite comparing like with like, but found an old article (2017) where the PGMOL claimed that refs decision making was 98% correct.

Now of course that includes throws and things anyone could get right and the 98% bound to be bigged up a bit, but as you say, with one look at one angle, live with everything else going on - ie not sat in a nice warm cabin in Stockley Park, real life v VAR stats are pretty illuminating!

VAR making a difference? on 15:19 - Dec 23 with 989 views

PinnerPaul

VAR making a difference? on 15:12 - Dec 23 by Northernr
At least it's somebody who was actually a decent referee himself in charge. Always made me laugh that Mike Riley was left in charge of anything other than his own bread bin.

Yes and I think the clubs and the more experienced referees will have a bit more respect for him as a result.

He also has the experience of having worked outside the bubble of the UK.

Always thought MR approached the job from the perspective of, "If its how we do it in this country, it must be right."

I know for a fact that the PGMOL decided unilaterally that referees would not ever go to the monitor and rely on VAR entirely until IFAB pointed out that wasn't what was supposed to happen as per LOTG!

VAR making a difference? on 15:21 - Dec 23 with 977 views

Northernr

VAR making a difference? on 15:19 - Dec 23 by PinnerPaul

So now they go over there performatively, and go along with whatever they were told regardless of what it shows

VAR making a difference? on 15:28 - Dec 23 with 960 views

PinnerPaul

VAR making a difference? on 15:21 - Dec 23 by Northernr
So now they go over there performatively, and go along with whatever they were told regardless of what it shows

Well yes in 98% of cases.

Another thing on Howard's (long) list of things to fix!

I'm with you, as you know , dreading VAR coming to the Championship.

Look on the bright side, bound to result in even more traffic on here!

VAR making a difference? on 16:37 - Dec 26 with 843 views

terryb

Andy Madeley has just visited the monitor & decided not to overturn the Fulham goal he had allowed.

Perhaps referees are going to be allowed to make their own decisions!

VAR making a difference? on 14:59 - Dec 27 with 718 views

PinnerPaul

VAR making a difference? on 16:37 - Dec 26 by terryb
Andy Madeley has just visited the monitor & decided not to overturn the Fulham goal he had allowed. Perhaps referees are going to be allowed to make their own decisions!

Its possible, but doesn't really sit with Howard's intentions he set out in that interview.

He said he only wanted VAR to intervene in those "Wow! That was wrong!" moments

Not sure that qualifies in this case.

More likely VAR asked AM if he saw the ball hit Mitrovic's arm - he said "No" so VAR sent him over.

I agree with HW, in this case, even if AM did not see the ball hit the player's arm, it wasn't a clear error (ie an obvious handball) so VAR should have just kept out of it.

VAR making a difference? on 19:40 - Dec 27 with 676 views

terryb

VAR making a difference? on 14:59 - Dec 27 by PinnerPaul

It was clearly unintentional from Mitrovic & as he wasn't the goalscorer, surely handball could not be given/

I'm in complete agreement that the VAR offical should not have got involved.

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