Forum | VAR making a difference? by Wilkinswatercarrier

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VAR making a difference? 12:29 - Dec 19 with 6228 views

Did anyone else notice the lack of feigning injury and time wasting going on at the WC? There also seemed to be less abuse of officials compared to previous years.
I can only think that VAR, for all its faults, is making a positive impact. That and added time being correctly added.

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VAR making a difference? on 12:46 - Dec 19 with 4926 views

Northernr

The time wasting was killed stone dead by them actually adding the time back on properly. This is long overdue and worked brilliantly I thought. Nothing discourages the shthousing more than the fact you might be facing 17 minutes of added time with your precious 2-1 lead.

I know we benefitted on Saturday but it was actually quite depressing to see all the tricks we pulled second half and then only 5 minutes at the end. Should have been double that for me. Back to life, back to reality.

VAR making a difference? on 13:43 - Dec 19 with 4802 views

DavieQPR

It's very difficult to abuse a ref when he can't understand a word you are saying.

VAR making a difference? on 13:54 - Dec 19 with 4772 views

PinnerPaul

VAR making a difference? on 12:46 - Dec 19 by Northernr

Not sure on the 10 minutes on Saturday, but get your point.

Still a lot of feigning injury and 'treatment' needed when its clear there doesn't need to be any at the WC though.

Re VAR, its being used here as it should be used in the PL - only getting involved for clear and obvious errors.

Thought Argentina's penalty was 50/50 looking at it, but VAR rightly did not intervene as it wasn't a clear and obvious error, nor would/should they if ref had said no pen.

Also offside calls seem to be a lot quicker - eg Argentina's 3rd goal yesterday.

VAR making a difference? on 15:40 - Dec 19 with 4658 views

Wilkinswatercarrier

VAR making a difference? on 12:46 - Dec 19 by Northernr

So why cant the time keeping be managed the same way in the Championship? Is it that more assistant referees would be needed?

Personally I thought it was great not having to watch players falling around like they had been shot as Klinsman, Drogba and the rest used to.

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VAR making a difference? on 18:57 - Dec 19 with 4496 views

davman

VAR making a difference? on 13:43 - Dec 19 by DavieQPR
It's very difficult to abuse a ref when he can't understand a word you are saying.

Nah, they get training on what words to look out for apparently...

Referring at the WC was generally much, much better than we have to put up with and, as a result, the games were well worth watching.

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VAR making a difference? on 20:42 - Dec 19 with 4436 views

swisscottage

VAR making a difference? on 18:57 - Dec 19 by davman
Nah, they get training on what words to look out for apparently... Referring at the WC was generally much, much better than we have to put up with and, as a result, the games were well worth watching.

Even the poor referees were head and shoulders above what we're used to.

VAR making a difference? on 20:57 - Dec 19 with 4401 views

daveB

VAR making a difference? on 15:40 - Dec 19 by Wilkinswatercarrier
So why cant the time keeping be managed the same way in the Championship? Is it that more assistant referees would be needed? Personally I thought it was great not having to watch players falling around like they had been shot as Klinsman, Drogba and the rest used to.

The Prem and EFL have both said they will not be doing it the same way and adding that much time on which is a real shame. They know best and all that

Was a joy to watch tight games where the last 10 minutes was teams trying to score a goal rather than laying on the floor pretending to be dead

[Post edited 19 Dec 2022 20:57]

VAR making a difference? on 21:05 - Dec 19 with 4388 views

dubaistu

VAR making a difference? on 20:57 - Dec 19 by daveB
The Prem and EFL have both said they will not be doing it the same way and adding that much time on which is a real shame. They know best and all that Was a joy to watch tight games where the last 10 minutes was teams trying to score a goal rather than laying on the floor pretending to be dead [Post edited 19 Dec 2022 20:57]

It's probably due to the TV companies saying no, we need the revenue from commercials?

VAR making a difference? on 22:30 - Dec 19 with 4293 views

daveB

VAR making a difference? on 21:05 - Dec 19 by dubaistu
It's probably due to the TV companies saying no, we need the revenue from commercials?

i very much doubt they've been asked, it feels more like the people running football in this country thinking they know better than everyone else which is part of why VAR is such a mess in this country

VAR making a difference? on 04:16 - Dec 20 with 4210 views

SydneyRs

No doubt VAR has its issues but the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Thinking of past incidents in the WC, obviously the hand of god thing (although its great for responsidng to bitter, racist old man Shilton's nonsense on twitter), Rivaldo going down clutching his face after the ball hit him in the leg, Lampard's goal v Germany, the Beckham red card in 98 etc, etc. VAR should prevent this stuff from happening in the future. Even though we failed to make use of it, the blatant second pen to England v France was waved away by the idiot ref and VAR fixed the problem. Shame about Mr Kane's dreadful penalty which unfortunately VAR can't do anything for.

Re timewasting, its not that hard to fix if there's actually a will to do it. The WC demonstrated this.

[Post edited 20 Dec 2022 4:17]

VAR making a difference? on 23:17 - Dec 21 with 3975 views

LazyFan

VAR making a difference? on 12:46 - Dec 19 by Northernr

Yeah, I agree, but to be fair it was against PNE so, that makes it an exception to the rule.

Delicious it was. But only for a one-off.

zzzzzzzzzz

VAR making a difference? on 09:43 - Dec 22 with 3880 views

Northernr

VAR making a difference? on 22:30 - Dec 19 by daveB
i very much doubt they've been asked, it feels more like the people running football in this country thinking they know better than everyone else which is part of why VAR is such a mess in this country

On this, independent review of the first chunk of the Premier League this year finds six serious VAR errors, headlined by that nonsense disallowed goal West Ham had in the last minute at Chelsea.
Newcastle goal incorrectly disallowed in a 0-0 with Palace.
Martinelli's Arsenal disallowed goal at Man Utd, as we all said at the time, also ruled bolox.

This post has been edited by an administrator

VAR making a difference? on 09:45 - Dec 22 with 3861 views

toboboly

VAR making a difference? on 12:46 - Dec 19 by Northernr

Agree. Similar at the Euros when they didn't fall for players rolling around like they'd been shot, within a few games it stopped.

Why oh why they don't continue both practices bemuses and frustrates me.

edit: nothing to do with VAR which is completely crap.

[Post edited 22 Dec 2022 9:45]

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VAR making a difference? on 09:49 - Dec 22 with 3847 views

SuffolkHoop

Find someone who thinks VAR is an improvement and they'll also think electric cars are currently more convenient than petrol cars. While the latter may one day be true, I'm yet to believe VAR can be.

VAR making a difference? on 09:49 - Dec 22 with 3845 views

Northernr

VAR making a difference? on 09:45 - Dec 22 by toboboly
Agree. Similar at the Euros when they didn't fall for players rolling around like they'd been shot, within a few games it stopped. Why oh why they don't continue both practices bemuses and frustrates me. edit: nothing to do with VAR which is completely crap. [Post edited 22 Dec 2022 9:45]

As DaveB says, we seem to think that we know better than the rest of the world on this one, and the worst collection of British referees in my life following the sport have somehow attained a higher level of understanding about how the game should be refereed.

VAR making a difference? on 10:09 - Dec 22 with 3791 views

toboboly

VAR making a difference? on 09:49 - Dec 22 by Northernr
As DaveB says, we seem to think that we know better than the rest of the world on this one, and the worst collection of British referees in my life following the sport have somehow attained a higher level of understanding about how the game should be refereed.

It is so easy to fix so many current problems with the game. They all come down to the officials and people running the game having a backbone.

I run exams at a university, the only way to keep control is to stick to the rules. Once you don't, you're fcked and the students walk all over you.

Sexy Asian dwarves wanted.

VAR making a difference? on 10:21 - Dec 22 with 3774 views

terryb

VAR making a difference? on 09:43 - Dec 22 by Northernr
On this, independent review of the first chunk of the Premier League this year finds six serious VAR errors, headlined by that nonsense disallowed goal West Ham had in the last minute at Chelsea. Newcastle goal incorrectly disallowed in a 0-0 with Palace. Martinelli's Arsenal disallowed goal at Man Utd, as we all said at the time, also ruled bolox. This post has been edited by an administrator

The Martinelli one is very interesting (to me).

Was it incorrect because the "foul" was to far back in play? Or because it wasn't an obvious & clear mistake by the referee? At the time I thought the goal should have been allowed on both grounds!

Still, we shouldn't really complain as we all know that the PL, EFL, FA & the PGMO know better than anyone else in the world!

VAR making a difference? on 11:10 - Dec 22 with 3713 views

francisbowles

VAR making a difference? on 10:09 - Dec 22 by toboboly
It is so easy to fix so many current problems with the game. They all come down to the officials and people running the game having a backbone. I run exams at a university, the only way to keep control is to stick to the rules. Once you don't, you're fcked and the students walk all over you.

Exactly. Football has developed a culture of letting things go, in order to improve the spectacle. Whilst I agree that we need to speed the game up and make it better for spectators, once you let things go you are on a slippery slope and we are well down it.

Even in the world cup, players can't even take a throw in correctly but rarely is it penalised and given to the other side. If it's a shirt pull it's a foul, simple as, wherever it is on the pitch. It doesn't matter how much of a shirt pull, it's not supposed to be about degrees of fouling.

I'd rather they tried to enforce ALL the rules, fairly but firmly. As long as they then kept it going players would have to adopt the change of culture and the game would go back to be fairer and less about gamesmanship, shithousery and cheating.

Oh! While they are at it they need to rewrite the handball and offside rules. (rant over)

VAR making a difference? on 12:29 - Dec 22 with 3635 views

toboboly

This should be a 12 match ban. Would soon stamp it out:

Sexy Asian dwarves wanted.

VAR making a difference? on 14:56 - Dec 22 with 3537 views

PinnerPaul

VAR making a difference? on 09:43 - Dec 22 by Northernr
On this, independent review of the first chunk of the Premier League this year finds six serious VAR errors, headlined by that nonsense disallowed goal West Ham had in the last minute at Chelsea. Newcastle goal incorrectly disallowed in a 0-0 with Palace. Martinelli's Arsenal disallowed goal at Man Utd, as we all said at the time, also ruled bolox. This post has been edited by an administrator

I get really suprised/angry (depending on the day) when people express surprisese at these statistics.

VAR is just another referee - and -this is me saying it! - they are still going to make mistakes like everyone else - that's football.

As I've said before, been on training courses, foul is shown and you'll get the room split between foul no card, foul yellow and foul red!

A perfectly refereed game is as likely as a perfectly played game - IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

VAR making a difference? on 15:05 - Dec 22 with 3529 views

kensalriser

VAR making a difference? on 12:29 - Dec 22 by toboboly
This should be a 12 match ban. Would soon stamp it out:

That's not shithousing, just a good old fashioned dive.

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VAR making a difference? on 15:06 - Dec 22 with 3522 views

PinnerPaul

VAR making a difference? on 11:10 - Dec 22 by francisbowles

Good post, well put.

Technical point first - they have changed/tweaked the law re holding - get out clause is that you can choose not to penalise if it doesn't impede the progress of an opponent - how you hold someone without impeding them, I have no idea, but it does give us a get out.

You're right in a way - the idea of the "spectacle", "what football expects" and the spirit of the game" has rather overtaken the actual LOTG.

We had a decent discussion on RefChat along these very same lines. It was prompted by the 2 Argentinian subs being on the pitch for about half a second before Messi's goal.

Anyone disallowing THAT goal, in THAT match, at THAT time?

Of course no one on earth is, but as some pointed out if not then rewrite the law.

Same as the 6 second law, if its going to be ignore, which it patently obviously is, then rewrite the law.

On offside and handball - I agree that in trying to simplify or make both laws 'fairer' they have in fact made them more complicated and in certain cases unfair!

As I've said before though, a game refereed EXACTLY as per the LOTG would be unwatchable after about 10 minutes (If you were lucky!)

VAR making a difference? on 15:16 - Dec 22 with 3490 views

Northernr

VAR making a difference? on 14:56 - Dec 22 by PinnerPaul

Well statistically, it's actually worse than a referee. This report says 6 out of 46 'overturns' in the first half of the season were wrong - 13%. Most studies of refereeing decisions taken on the field say they get something north of 95% right.

A couple on this list - the Villa sending off at Fulham, the West Ham disallowed goal - were obviously wrong from the first viewing, how they ended up doubling down and down into their protocols to reach the decisions they did I'll never know.

VAR making a difference? on 15:32 - Dec 22 with 3459 views

89_50

Just to jump back to the injury time point, is there an official reason the PGMOL won't be following this? Seems baffling, considering the somewhat positive impact it had during the World Cup, and would give fans a little more actual football to watch, given the ball is only in play something daft like 55 minutes of every 90 at the moment.

VAR making a difference? on 15:51 - Dec 22 with 3429 views

francisbowles

VAR making a difference? on 15:06 - Dec 22 by PinnerPaul

Cheers Pinner.

Agree with you on the technical point, it seems ludicrous.

As for the Argentinian subs, yes they should rewrite the law, or at least start to enforce the current one, to put more emphasis on the needing the ref's permission to enter or leave the field of play. The whole scenario of goal celebrations is out of control and maybe needs modernising. For instance: subs can come on but game restarts in 60 seconds , ready or not, and anyone on the pitch who shouldn't be, at the restart, will get a red card.

I haven't seen the video where the subs come on fractionally early. Were they interfering with the play? I guess not. Point taken though.

As for your final point, there is the advantage law to keep the game flowing. I think it would be positive to refine that as well. Allow the ref to bring the play back to the original offence if no advantage materialises, similar to rugby union, even if you go on to shoot at goal but miss, the play goes back to the foul.

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