| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” 09:21 - Mar 16 with 20658 views | TK1 |
Saw this on the way to the game, Cifuentes describing how difficult the season's been, "not just the results", but "things the fans don't see" - particularly the last few weeks.
Interesting that he thinks this has been "by far" harder than taking over one of the worst teams I can remember last season.
Seems significant. I wonder what's been happening - and I wonder where that leaves him for next season.
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| (No subject) on 10:10 - Mar 18 with 1922 views | Superhoops2808 |
| (No subject) on 09:33 - Mar 18 by lassel |
For what it’s worth Ned, I don’t believe I have an agenda against Nourry, I like to think I’m more nuanced than that.
As a QPR fan first and foremost, I thought Nourry was spot on this summer in expecting Cifuentes to commit to the club and protect us with a new deal, and I thought Cifuentes should’ve really gone away last summer fully focused on this season after we took a punt on him.
I don’t blame Nourry per se for the recruitment - ultimately Belk and his team provide the list of targets and Nourry just does the best deal possible for the club. This setup is what many clubs use - manager says where he thinks the squad needs improving and the recruitment team go to work. However as he has made himself CEO & DOF, the bloated recruitment setup which is all under him ultimately falls on his head. The signing of Madsen for a chunky fee without ever seeing him in person should’ve seen heads roll and him pulling an Odemwingie on Isaac Hayden and switching late in the day to Ashby was not only poor on a personal level but entirely caused by bad prior recruitment of Santos.
I think his paranoia about communications is ill conceived, but i give him props for taking criticism onboard and changing tact at least on the injury front. The shutout of North is pathetic obviously but I understand why he doesn’t want the very popular Cifuentes in an open forum where he can go off-script.
His edict of one playing style from u8 to first team is nothing controversial and what many of us asked for for years - decide what you want to be and then plug and play the pieces around that. My only issue is Nourry himself with no football background being the one to make the sporting plan over more qualified candidates at the club.
I don’t think him being around the training ground a lot is an issue per se, he is DOF and Ferdinand was about a lot too. As above my issue is him being DOF with no experience or knowledge for the role.
I think him using the Gen Z startup ‘social media hustler’ strategy of disrupt and break things was daft - the club has been broken enough for 20 years now, and it just pissed off a lot of experienced people at the club.
I think the Ben Williams situation is poor and has been handled badly by him.
Ultimately he is just a young guy who was in the right place at the right time with an immaculate education CV and enough patter to take advantage of Hoos being desperate to move upstairs. It’s the owners’ fault he is here, not his. I think it would be better for all parties if he were more introspective and hired a dedicated DOF under him, but he’s a 26 year old who grew up with the best money could buy, these profiles don’t tend to be humble and introspective. He will mature or he will flame out of football, nothing we can do about it, as QPR fans we can only hope for the former.
Equally I don’t agree with everything Cifuentes has done. As above I think he was better served and honestly owed it to us to have been fully focused on this season and plotting a move *this* summer after 18 months of solid improvement.
I thought the Sheppard thing at Burnley while inconsequential was poor. When ‘Arry did it I thought it was poor and it would be hypocritical to not call out Marti for it.
I think his thinly veiled criticism of Paal last season and open discussion of moving him on this summer was naive and has in retrospect bitten us as he’s been understandably checked out all season.
I think he’s made questionable choices in lineups and in-game management and have said so ‘live’ on here over the last 12 months. I did say when he joined though that I expected this to happen. In defence I think he’s been admirably pragmatic in dealing with the cards he has and being willing to sacrifice on his ideology for the better of the team with Dunne at full back to assist in the pissing away of set piece goals for example.
So yeah, I like to think I have a pretty balanced outlook, you’re free to disagree and see an agenda against Nourry if you wish. I certainly hope that Nourry gets it right though as a QPR fan as Cifuentes won’t be around forever and I naturally want him to get it right with his replacement and future signings. |
Had you posted this from the get go, I would have been not have been half as harsh as I have been in previous posts, because all of it seems to contain your opinion and thoughts. Much of it starts with 'I think' rather than 'I know'
Even at 55 I am not too proud to apologise if I have been off the mark, so I am sorry if I have been so dismissive about your posts and your intentions. |  | | |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 10:13 - Mar 18 with 1888 views | dmm |
The majority in this thread appear to feel Cifuentes will leave this summer and sadly I too can see it happening.
In the context of Nourry's modus operandi, Rsole wondered what might be next should that happen. That got me wondering, is Nourry so very different from many other football CEOs? I don't like him or the way he operates but I think others work in a similar way, perhaps more so in Europe and elsewhere.
If this is the case, and Cifuentes goes, I think there'd be plenty of potential candidates willing to work under Nourry. But, I continue to hope Cifuentes is with us for another season. |  | | |
| (No subject) on 11:55 - Mar 18 with 1644 views | KensalT |
| (No subject) on 09:33 - Mar 18 by lassel |
For what it’s worth Ned, I don’t believe I have an agenda against Nourry, I like to think I’m more nuanced than that.
As a QPR fan first and foremost, I thought Nourry was spot on this summer in expecting Cifuentes to commit to the club and protect us with a new deal, and I thought Cifuentes should’ve really gone away last summer fully focused on this season after we took a punt on him.
I don’t blame Nourry per se for the recruitment - ultimately Belk and his team provide the list of targets and Nourry just does the best deal possible for the club. This setup is what many clubs use - manager says where he thinks the squad needs improving and the recruitment team go to work. However as he has made himself CEO & DOF, the bloated recruitment setup which is all under him ultimately falls on his head. The signing of Madsen for a chunky fee without ever seeing him in person should’ve seen heads roll and him pulling an Odemwingie on Isaac Hayden and switching late in the day to Ashby was not only poor on a personal level but entirely caused by bad prior recruitment of Santos.
I think his paranoia about communications is ill conceived, but i give him props for taking criticism onboard and changing tact at least on the injury front. The shutout of North is pathetic obviously but I understand why he doesn’t want the very popular Cifuentes in an open forum where he can go off-script.
His edict of one playing style from u8 to first team is nothing controversial and what many of us asked for for years - decide what you want to be and then plug and play the pieces around that. My only issue is Nourry himself with no football background being the one to make the sporting plan over more qualified candidates at the club.
I don’t think him being around the training ground a lot is an issue per se, he is DOF and Ferdinand was about a lot too. As above my issue is him being DOF with no experience or knowledge for the role.
I think him using the Gen Z startup ‘social media hustler’ strategy of disrupt and break things was daft - the club has been broken enough for 20 years now, and it just pissed off a lot of experienced people at the club.
I think the Ben Williams situation is poor and has been handled badly by him.
Ultimately he is just a young guy who was in the right place at the right time with an immaculate education CV and enough patter to take advantage of Hoos being desperate to move upstairs. It’s the owners’ fault he is here, not his. I think it would be better for all parties if he were more introspective and hired a dedicated DOF under him, but he’s a 26 year old who grew up with the best money could buy, these profiles don’t tend to be humble and introspective. He will mature or he will flame out of football, nothing we can do about it, as QPR fans we can only hope for the former.
Equally I don’t agree with everything Cifuentes has done. As above I think he was better served and honestly owed it to us to have been fully focused on this season and plotting a move *this* summer after 18 months of solid improvement.
I thought the Sheppard thing at Burnley while inconsequential was poor. When ‘Arry did it I thought it was poor and it would be hypocritical to not call out Marti for it.
I think his thinly veiled criticism of Paal last season and open discussion of moving him on this summer was naive and has in retrospect bitten us as he’s been understandably checked out all season.
I think he’s made questionable choices in lineups and in-game management and have said so ‘live’ on here over the last 12 months. I did say when he joined though that I expected this to happen. In defence I think he’s been admirably pragmatic in dealing with the cards he has and being willing to sacrifice on his ideology for the better of the team with Dunne at full back to assist in the pissing away of set piece goals for example.
So yeah, I like to think I have a pretty balanced outlook, you’re free to disagree and see an agenda against Nourry if you wish. I certainly hope that Nourry gets it right though as a QPR fan as Cifuentes won’t be around forever and I naturally want him to get it right with his replacement and future signings. |
That all seems balanced and reasonable.
I would pick up on the point you made about the relationship between Belk and Nourry:
"I don’t blame Nourry per se for the recruitment - ultimately Belk and his team provide the list of targets and Nourry just does the best deal possible for the club."
We should remember that Nourry's background is in data analysis and recruitment. And Lee Hoos praised him for this when Nourry was announced as the new CEO:
“I would like to wish Christian the very best of luck in the position. He is extremely competent and bridges a number of gaps that need to be bridged.”
“He has a proven track record of achieving success for football clubs he has worked with around the world and his expertise has already enabled us to identify and recruit two outstanding professionals."
https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/2024/january/12/christian-nourry-replaces-lee-hoos-as
Hoos by his own admission didn't really get the data analytics side of the game.
Nourry would appear to be far more savvy than that.
My point here is that Belk is surely still doing all the legwork, but Nourry is better able to guide him in what he wants and presumably can crunch the numbers himself to check what Belk serves up to him rather than taking it all at face value like Hoos and Les Ferdinand had to.
Mistakes have been made with Santos and Madsen the most obvious howlers. But that might perhaps be because we are now becoming too reliant on data and not giving enough weight to scouting. But that seems to be the modern trend in the game. Mark Warburton talked about it when he spoke to Hoopsa a while back. [Post edited 18 Mar 12:53]
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| (No subject) on 12:03 - Mar 18 with 1619 views | JamesB1979 |
| (No subject) on 09:33 - Mar 18 by lassel |
For what it’s worth Ned, I don’t believe I have an agenda against Nourry, I like to think I’m more nuanced than that.
As a QPR fan first and foremost, I thought Nourry was spot on this summer in expecting Cifuentes to commit to the club and protect us with a new deal, and I thought Cifuentes should’ve really gone away last summer fully focused on this season after we took a punt on him.
I don’t blame Nourry per se for the recruitment - ultimately Belk and his team provide the list of targets and Nourry just does the best deal possible for the club. This setup is what many clubs use - manager says where he thinks the squad needs improving and the recruitment team go to work. However as he has made himself CEO & DOF, the bloated recruitment setup which is all under him ultimately falls on his head. The signing of Madsen for a chunky fee without ever seeing him in person should’ve seen heads roll and him pulling an Odemwingie on Isaac Hayden and switching late in the day to Ashby was not only poor on a personal level but entirely caused by bad prior recruitment of Santos.
I think his paranoia about communications is ill conceived, but i give him props for taking criticism onboard and changing tact at least on the injury front. The shutout of North is pathetic obviously but I understand why he doesn’t want the very popular Cifuentes in an open forum where he can go off-script.
His edict of one playing style from u8 to first team is nothing controversial and what many of us asked for for years - decide what you want to be and then plug and play the pieces around that. My only issue is Nourry himself with no football background being the one to make the sporting plan over more qualified candidates at the club.
I don’t think him being around the training ground a lot is an issue per se, he is DOF and Ferdinand was about a lot too. As above my issue is him being DOF with no experience or knowledge for the role.
I think him using the Gen Z startup ‘social media hustler’ strategy of disrupt and break things was daft - the club has been broken enough for 20 years now, and it just pissed off a lot of experienced people at the club.
I think the Ben Williams situation is poor and has been handled badly by him.
Ultimately he is just a young guy who was in the right place at the right time with an immaculate education CV and enough patter to take advantage of Hoos being desperate to move upstairs. It’s the owners’ fault he is here, not his. I think it would be better for all parties if he were more introspective and hired a dedicated DOF under him, but he’s a 26 year old who grew up with the best money could buy, these profiles don’t tend to be humble and introspective. He will mature or he will flame out of football, nothing we can do about it, as QPR fans we can only hope for the former.
Equally I don’t agree with everything Cifuentes has done. As above I think he was better served and honestly owed it to us to have been fully focused on this season and plotting a move *this* summer after 18 months of solid improvement.
I thought the Sheppard thing at Burnley while inconsequential was poor. When ‘Arry did it I thought it was poor and it would be hypocritical to not call out Marti for it.
I think his thinly veiled criticism of Paal last season and open discussion of moving him on this summer was naive and has in retrospect bitten us as he’s been understandably checked out all season.
I think he’s made questionable choices in lineups and in-game management and have said so ‘live’ on here over the last 12 months. I did say when he joined though that I expected this to happen. In defence I think he’s been admirably pragmatic in dealing with the cards he has and being willing to sacrifice on his ideology for the better of the team with Dunne at full back to assist in the pissing away of set piece goals for example.
So yeah, I like to think I have a pretty balanced outlook, you’re free to disagree and see an agenda against Nourry if you wish. I certainly hope that Nourry gets it right though as a QPR fan as Cifuentes won’t be around forever and I naturally want him to get it right with his replacement and future signings. |
Everything you say above is completely fair. Your comments on his paranoia about communication are in my view also spot on.
What I took issue with was your earlier post where you called him a 25 year old public school boy. I genuinely don’t see why his age or background matters. Also if noses are put out of joint….im sorry but who cares. People have underperformed at the club on football side. They may have great experience but results would say they are not doing a good job. Personally im surprised there wasn’t a bigger cull. | | | |
| (No subject) on 12:39 - Mar 18 with 1507 views | stainrods_elbow |
| (No subject) on 09:33 - Mar 18 by lassel |
For what it’s worth Ned, I don’t believe I have an agenda against Nourry, I like to think I’m more nuanced than that.
As a QPR fan first and foremost, I thought Nourry was spot on this summer in expecting Cifuentes to commit to the club and protect us with a new deal, and I thought Cifuentes should’ve really gone away last summer fully focused on this season after we took a punt on him.
I don’t blame Nourry per se for the recruitment - ultimately Belk and his team provide the list of targets and Nourry just does the best deal possible for the club. This setup is what many clubs use - manager says where he thinks the squad needs improving and the recruitment team go to work. However as he has made himself CEO & DOF, the bloated recruitment setup which is all under him ultimately falls on his head. The signing of Madsen for a chunky fee without ever seeing him in person should’ve seen heads roll and him pulling an Odemwingie on Isaac Hayden and switching late in the day to Ashby was not only poor on a personal level but entirely caused by bad prior recruitment of Santos.
I think his paranoia about communications is ill conceived, but i give him props for taking criticism onboard and changing tact at least on the injury front. The shutout of North is pathetic obviously but I understand why he doesn’t want the very popular Cifuentes in an open forum where he can go off-script.
His edict of one playing style from u8 to first team is nothing controversial and what many of us asked for for years - decide what you want to be and then plug and play the pieces around that. My only issue is Nourry himself with no football background being the one to make the sporting plan over more qualified candidates at the club.
I don’t think him being around the training ground a lot is an issue per se, he is DOF and Ferdinand was about a lot too. As above my issue is him being DOF with no experience or knowledge for the role.
I think him using the Gen Z startup ‘social media hustler’ strategy of disrupt and break things was daft - the club has been broken enough for 20 years now, and it just pissed off a lot of experienced people at the club.
I think the Ben Williams situation is poor and has been handled badly by him.
Ultimately he is just a young guy who was in the right place at the right time with an immaculate education CV and enough patter to take advantage of Hoos being desperate to move upstairs. It’s the owners’ fault he is here, not his. I think it would be better for all parties if he were more introspective and hired a dedicated DOF under him, but he’s a 26 year old who grew up with the best money could buy, these profiles don’t tend to be humble and introspective. He will mature or he will flame out of football, nothing we can do about it, as QPR fans we can only hope for the former.
Equally I don’t agree with everything Cifuentes has done. As above I think he was better served and honestly owed it to us to have been fully focused on this season and plotting a move *this* summer after 18 months of solid improvement.
I thought the Sheppard thing at Burnley while inconsequential was poor. When ‘Arry did it I thought it was poor and it would be hypocritical to not call out Marti for it.
I think his thinly veiled criticism of Paal last season and open discussion of moving him on this summer was naive and has in retrospect bitten us as he’s been understandably checked out all season.
I think he’s made questionable choices in lineups and in-game management and have said so ‘live’ on here over the last 12 months. I did say when he joined though that I expected this to happen. In defence I think he’s been admirably pragmatic in dealing with the cards he has and being willing to sacrifice on his ideology for the better of the team with Dunne at full back to assist in the pissing away of set piece goals for example.
So yeah, I like to think I have a pretty balanced outlook, you’re free to disagree and see an agenda against Nourry if you wish. I certainly hope that Nourry gets it right though as a QPR fan as Cifuentes won’t be around forever and I naturally want him to get it right with his replacement and future signings. |
All very sensible and balanced, let down only by your continued misapprehension (despite clear messages from both Nourry and Marti himself) that Marti doesn't have a significant input on all incoming players, even if CN signs them off. It's mystifying how anyone feels the manager wouldn't be pivotal to the building of his own squad! Otherwise, I couldn't have put your post better myself.
As for nuance, that poster (and his simplistic ilk) who tried to have a go at me lately for cultivating complexity will no doubt have you in his sights too, which tells one of course that one is doing something right. Keep pushing the nuances against the black and white thinkers on here who mainly just baa like sheep, brother! [Post edited 18 Mar 14:41]
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| (No subject) on 12:45 - Mar 18 with 1500 views | DannyPaddox |
Big shout out to Simplistic Ilk. I saw them play in a pub in Clerkenwell in the early days and the drummer signed a T-shirt for me. Love those guys. |  | | |
| (No subject) on 12:48 - Mar 18 with 1481 views | dmm |
| (No subject) on 12:45 - Mar 18 by DannyPaddox |
Big shout out to Simplistic Ilk. I saw them play in a pub in Clerkenwell in the early days and the drummer signed a T-shirt for me. Love those guys. |
I believe Jim Kerr was a big fan. | | | |
| (No subject) on 12:51 - Mar 18 with 1470 views | DannyPaddox |
| (No subject) on 12:48 - Mar 18 by dmm |
I believe Jim Kerr was a big fan. |
Haha very good … do you remember Simplistic Elk? | | | |
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| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 12:55 - Mar 18 with 1427 views | lightwaterhoop |
I didn't interpret Marti's interview as implying he will be off in the summer just that he was having a good old moan.He would encounter similar problems at other clubs as he has at QPR. | | | |
| (No subject) on 12:57 - Mar 18 with 1419 views | dmm |
| (No subject) on 12:51 - Mar 18 by DannyPaddox |
Haha very good … do you remember Simplistic Elk? |
Not only do I remember the Elk but also their ilk too. | | | |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 12:59 - Mar 18 with 1413 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
Has anyone thought that Marti might leave, not due to any tensions with Nourry, but rather that he just can't face another season with us?
He is about to enter a third season with another large player turnover, it must be pretty exhausting and demoralising.
He has looked well and truly QPRd for most of this season.
I wouldn't blame him walking, and I think he will. | | | |
| (No subject) on 13:23 - Mar 18 with 1344 views | Rsole |
| (No subject) on 12:57 - Mar 18 by dmm |
Not only do I remember the Elk but also their ilk too. |
Never ‘herd’ of Elks and Ilks but I have also heard there are some simplistic (not) Itk’s around here.
One hit wonders mostly but there’s an occasional, difficult second album. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 13:25 - Mar 18 with 1341 views | Rsole |
Keep on rutting and posting. | |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| (No subject) on 13:56 - Mar 18 with 1236 views | Gus_iom |
| (No subject) on 12:45 - Mar 18 by DannyPaddox |
Big shout out to Simplistic Ilk. I saw them play in a pub in Clerkenwell in the early days and the drummer signed a T-shirt for me. Love those guys. |
I saw them on a double headliner with MC Gripes. Didn't think it would work, but it came off. Halcyon days. | | | |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 14:05 - Mar 18 with 1188 views | dm97 |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 12:59 - Mar 18 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Has anyone thought that Marti might leave, not due to any tensions with Nourry, but rather that he just can't face another season with us?
He is about to enter a third season with another large player turnover, it must be pretty exhausting and demoralising.
He has looked well and truly QPRd for most of this season.
I wouldn't blame him walking, and I think he will. |
Managers rarely resign. They may be approached for (/source) another job and leave, sure, but that’s not the same thing as handing in your resignation to get out. We see it all the time, particularly in bottom of prem - horrible, hopeless situations like Southampton this season you don’t quit. You walk away from a massive pay packet by doing so.
I can think of elite resignations (Klopp, Pep at Barca etc) but can anyone name the last championship level manager to resign? Unless you define walking away as doing an Honest Mick, in which case fine. But that does not sound like “walking” in the way you mean |  | | |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 14:46 - Mar 18 with 1067 views | stainrods_elbow |
For what's it worth, and of course we're all just speculating as usual, I don't think Marti will go (or not yet at least) as he hopefully has enough humility to realsie he is still trying to prove himself at a half-decent level in the Champ - and the 'project' is clearly far from finished at QPR. I thyink he as a lot of the makings, but if he feels he'd be happier elsewhere, so be it - adios! | |
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| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 15:53 - Mar 18 with 925 views | Harbour |
Like others have said I don’t think Marti will quit but when a bigger club comes in for him he will go just like all managers…at least when he does eventually leave we should get some compensation..think he will still be here next season unless we fall off a clip in the last 8 games. | | | |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 15:54 - Mar 18 with 922 views | kensalriser |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 14:05 - Mar 18 by dm97 |
Managers rarely resign. They may be approached for (/source) another job and leave, sure, but that’s not the same thing as handing in your resignation to get out. We see it all the time, particularly in bottom of prem - horrible, hopeless situations like Southampton this season you don’t quit. You walk away from a massive pay packet by doing so.
I can think of elite resignations (Klopp, Pep at Barca etc) but can anyone name the last championship level manager to resign? Unless you define walking away as doing an Honest Mick, in which case fine. But that does not sound like “walking” in the way you mean |
Indeed. He's not going to resign unless the situation become intolerable. He might get poached, but I'll say this once again: who's looking at the Championship table and thinking we need to get that guy who's stormed his team to 15th? |  |
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| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 15:59 - Mar 18 with 913 views | LongsufferingR |
Blimey, reading through this it seems like Marti leaving is becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy. I doubt he goes unless poached (not very likely) or his situation with Nourry becomes more than he can cope with but like everyone else on here, that's just my opinion.
I have to say though I can't remember a single manager we've had before who has had the fans singing his name at every single game, win, lose or draw. In fact. the loudest was when we were right in the sht earlier this season. |  | | |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 16:13 - Mar 18 with 862 views | KensalT |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 15:54 - Mar 18 by kensalriser |
Indeed. He's not going to resign unless the situation become intolerable. He might get poached, but I'll say this once again: who's looking at the Championship table and thinking we need to get that guy who's stormed his team to 15th? |
Russell Martin only had one top half finish in his managerial career before getting the Southampton job. And that only came about at Swansea because of a late winning streak against teams already on the beach.
And there's a lot of talk about Danny Rohl probably being the next Saints manager, even though they're currently 12th in the Championship.
I hear a lot of talk about "player profiles" in the modern game. Presumably there are similar analytics techniques for managers too.
Obviously it's a results business. But if the analysts like your style then that seems to carry a lot of weight as well these days. | | | |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 16:31 - Mar 18 with 817 views | loftus77 |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 15:54 - Mar 18 by kensalriser |
Indeed. He's not going to resign unless the situation become intolerable. He might get poached, but I'll say this once again: who's looking at the Championship table and thinking we need to get that guy who's stormed his team to 15th? |
This is the point. Very telling that I am not at all worried about this now, as opposed to a few weeks ago. | | | |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 17:46 - Mar 18 with 665 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| "By far the most challenging season of my career!” on 16:13 - Mar 18 by KensalT |
Russell Martin only had one top half finish in his managerial career before getting the Southampton job. And that only came about at Swansea because of a late winning streak against teams already on the beach.
And there's a lot of talk about Danny Rohl probably being the next Saints manager, even though they're currently 12th in the Championship.
I hear a lot of talk about "player profiles" in the modern game. Presumably there are similar analytics techniques for managers too.
Obviously it's a results business. But if the analysts like your style then that seems to carry a lot of weight as well these days. |
True but I'm not sure Marti's had the chance to impose the (attacking) style that bigger clubs might be drawn to. |  | | |
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