| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. 23:07 - Mar 19 with 14618 views | A40Bosh |
1hr of sensible questions without prior notice
5mins at the end with Finney blabbering on trying to ask a question which Ben Williams never really understood until someone else had to step in.
Doubters will no doubt…. Doubt
Haters are gonna hate.
Make your own mind up if you want to sit through and listen to an 1hr of sports science
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 23:13 - Mar 19 with 6762 views | numptydumpty |
Will have a listen Bosh.
Am glad he is speaking up. Be interesting to hear his views on what's been going wrong. [Post edited 19 Mar 23:14]
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 00:21 - Mar 20 with 6594 views | ozexile |
Only 20 mins in but iMO his remit is way too large. There's no way he can be across everything he's supposed to do. |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 08:44 - Mar 20 with 6101 views | bullshootr |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 00:21 - Mar 20 by ozexile |
Only 20 mins in but iMO his remit is way too large. There's no way he can be across everything he's supposed to do. |
Nourry or Williams!? :-) | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 08:56 - Mar 20 with 6051 views | wombat |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 08:44 - Mar 20 by bullshootr |
Nourry or Williams!? :-) |
just started listening to it ,
Strange smell coming from the mac now cant work it out ! |  |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:05 - Mar 20 with 6019 views | KensalT |
I caught about two-thirds of it before I went to bed last night. I will catch up with the rest later.
Just from what I heard I didn't find him very plausible.
The panel kicked off with the big question about whether our pitch was contributing to our injury problems.
A quick AI search will tell you that hard or soft pitches have been proven to cause an increase in certain types of injuries.
First Williams tried to reframe the question as "do worn pitches" contribute to injuries, then he said he would have to compare with data from other clubs, then he spent the next 10-15 minutes talking about the pitch with no reference to injuries.
The specific question was is our pitch causing injury problems. Either he didn't understand the question or he deliberately deflected off in another direction.
With respect to Finney & co I think they let him wriggle off the hook with that one.
The other big question is how the club can claim player availability of over 90% when so many key first team players have been out with long-term injuries.
First Williams admitted that Larkeche wasn't included in calculating that figure.
Why not!?
Larkeche is our player and he got injured on our time. Leaving him out of the data is just creative accounting and in my opinion wilfully dishonest.
To be fair to the panel they did keep pushing on this but Williams didn't properly (in my opinion) explain how key first team players like Chair, Poku, and JCS have hardly played this season and yet we still have availability of 90%
It simply doesn't add up.
I suspect there is some more sleight of hand being used here.
Maybe the issue is how the club chooses to define "player availability".
My guess is that they aren't defining availability as the player being fit to play for the first team on match day.
They might be using a different metric like "is the player fit enough to train".
"The dog ate my homework" would have been more convincing than some of his answers. [Post edited 20 Mar 9:08]
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:14 - Mar 20 with 5961 views | wombat |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:05 - Mar 20 by KensalT |
I caught about two-thirds of it before I went to bed last night. I will catch up with the rest later.
Just from what I heard I didn't find him very plausible.
The panel kicked off with the big question about whether our pitch was contributing to our injury problems.
A quick AI search will tell you that hard or soft pitches have been proven to cause an increase in certain types of injuries.
First Williams tried to reframe the question as "do worn pitches" contribute to injuries, then he said he would have to compare with data from other clubs, then he spent the next 10-15 minutes talking about the pitch with no reference to injuries.
The specific question was is our pitch causing injury problems. Either he didn't understand the question or he deliberately deflected off in another direction.
With respect to Finney & co I think they let him wriggle off the hook with that one.
The other big question is how the club can claim player availability of over 90% when so many key first team players have been out with long-term injuries.
First Williams admitted that Larkeche wasn't included in calculating that figure.
Why not!?
Larkeche is our player and he got injured on our time. Leaving him out of the data is just creative accounting and in my opinion wilfully dishonest.
To be fair to the panel they did keep pushing on this but Williams didn't properly (in my opinion) explain how key first team players like Chair, Poku, and JCS have hardly played this season and yet we still have availability of 90%
It simply doesn't add up.
I suspect there is some more sleight of hand being used here.
Maybe the issue is how the club chooses to define "player availability".
My guess is that they aren't defining availability as the player being fit to play for the first team on match day.
They might be using a different metric like "is the player fit enough to train".
"The dog ate my homework" would have been more convincing than some of his answers. [Post edited 20 Mar 9:08]
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hes from the nourry school of very very long answers when u are looking for the nearest bridge to jump off by the time hes finished answering it.
the 90% has to be including the youth players as the figures dont match up if its based on the first team and dev squad and the convienient ommision of larckache | |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:23 - Mar 20 with 5920 views | TheChef |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:14 - Mar 20 by wombat |
hes from the nourry school of very very long answers when u are looking for the nearest bridge to jump off by the time hes finished answering it.
the 90% has to be including the youth players as the figures dont match up if its based on the first team and dev squad and the convienient ommision of larckache |
Of course the old canard about making data say whatever you want it to say.
Clearly injuries have been bad this season, nearly all of them soft tissue injuries, you can't just put that down to bad luck. But no one at the club is going to put their hand up, admit it, and say we will do better. Not just this topic but many others. |  |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:24 - Mar 20 with 5920 views | KensalT |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:14 - Mar 20 by wombat |
hes from the nourry school of very very long answers when u are looking for the nearest bridge to jump off by the time hes finished answering it.
the 90% has to be including the youth players as the figures dont match up if its based on the first team and dev squad and the convienient ommision of larckache |
He was being specifically pushed on first team players.
Did he really think he was there to talk about the DS.
Another bit of nonsense he came out with was that Larkeche was left out so that the squad size would be 28, which was the same as last season so that they could make comparisons on that basis.
That is a crock of sh!te.
There's a specific statistical test (z score) that allows for comparisons of different sized datasets:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
I would expect a professional sports scientist to know that. | | | |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:25 - Mar 20 with 5910 views | JordanFoster |
A lot of fascinating takeaways with this one, but thought the fact Ben has overseen a transformation in our data analysis department which has seen it go from "non-existent/basic" to "World Class" was interesting to put us in the same bracket as the likes of Arsenal, Real Madrid, Manchester City etc.
Also the fact that actually it's not that the players are injured, the reason they haven't been included in the match-day squad (how most fans measure if a leading player is available), is the coaching staff might just not pick them.
He cited Poku playing in the U23s, wasn't actually rehab, it was as the manager felt he wasn't offering more than the players he had. Shame the summer star signing and League 1 POTY would dip so much but alas here we are. | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:27 - Mar 20 with 5891 views | Lblock |
"Doubters will no doubt…. Doubt
Haters are gonna hate."
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........
I always trust what my eyes see (unless it's AI) and what my nose smells.
I know where I'm at. |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:31 - Mar 20 with 5869 views | CheshireR |
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"
I'm not sure if this quote originated from Benjamin Disraeli or Mark Twain.......but it is certainly appropriate here. |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:33 - Mar 20 with 5846 views | Northernr |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:24 - Mar 20 by KensalT |
He was being specifically pushed on first team players.
Did he really think he was there to talk about the DS.
Another bit of nonsense he came out with was that Larkeche was left out so that the squad size would be 28, which was the same as last season so that they could make comparisons on that basis.
That is a crock of sh!te.
There's a specific statistical test (z score) that allows for comparisons of different sized datasets:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
I would expect a professional sports scientist to know that. |
One of the techniques Ben and Christian use a lot is to bury the audience in figures, most of which can never possibly be proved one way or the other, and then if you say 'come on, we can all see Poku, Chair, Madsen, Burrell etc have been out for months and injuries have killed our season' then you're told you're speaking "anecdotally" and what you're saying isn't backed up by "the data". |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:43 - Mar 20 with 5766 views | wombat |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:25 - Mar 20 by JordanFoster |
A lot of fascinating takeaways with this one, but thought the fact Ben has overseen a transformation in our data analysis department which has seen it go from "non-existent/basic" to "World Class" was interesting to put us in the same bracket as the likes of Arsenal, Real Madrid, Manchester City etc.
Also the fact that actually it's not that the players are injured, the reason they haven't been included in the match-day squad (how most fans measure if a leading player is available), is the coaching staff might just not pick them.
He cited Poku playing in the U23s, wasn't actually rehab, it was as the manager felt he wasn't offering more than the players he had. Shame the summer star signing and League 1 POTY would dip so much but alas here we are. |
if it sounds like bull shit ,smells like bull shit ,
its usually ends up as bullshit.
massive grasping for a not our fault on the burrell injury if hes not pushed he dosnt pull his hamstring ,
we dont want to put pressure on the physios with saying when a player might or might not be back. argh poor physios being made to work a little harder.
not got to the end but did anyone ask where is chair ?
if he in the uk ?
has he sorted his own recovery out ?
[Post edited 20 Mar 9:50]
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:48 - Mar 20 with 5747 views | KensalT |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:33 - Mar 20 by Northernr |
One of the techniques Ben and Christian use a lot is to bury the audience in figures, most of which can never possibly be proved one way or the other, and then if you say 'come on, we can all see Poku, Chair, Madsen, Burrell etc have been out for months and injuries have killed our season' then you're told you're speaking "anecdotally" and what you're saying isn't backed up by "the data". |
We can just look at the player data for this season:
https://fbref.com/en/squads/a7
36 fixtures completed is 3,240 minutes of game time (assuming 90 minutes per game).
Our big summer signing Poku has played 325 minutes = 10.0%
Our "best CB" JCS has played 403 minutes = 12.4%
And our top creator Chair has played a whopping 800 minutes = 24.7%
Nothing anecdotal about that! | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:52 - Mar 20 with 5713 views | Lblock |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:48 - Mar 20 by KensalT |
We can just look at the player data for this season:
https://fbref.com/en/squads/a7
36 fixtures completed is 3,240 minutes of game time (assuming 90 minutes per game).
Our big summer signing Poku has played 325 minutes = 10.0%
Our "best CB" JCS has played 403 minutes = 12.4%
And our top creator Chair has played a whopping 800 minutes = 24.7%
Nothing anecdotal about that! |
Heretic! | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:53 - Mar 20 with 5704 views | TheChef |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:33 - Mar 20 by Northernr |
One of the techniques Ben and Christian use a lot is to bury the audience in figures, most of which can never possibly be proved one way or the other, and then if you say 'come on, we can all see Poku, Chair, Madsen, Burrell etc have been out for months and injuries have killed our season' then you're told you're speaking "anecdotally" and what you're saying isn't backed up by "the data". |
Yes I'm sorry everyone but fans' eyesight is not compatible with the data.
Your favourite player may not be available.
Keep clapping you bstards. [Post edited 20 Mar 10:32]
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:54 - Mar 20 with 5699 views | BristolR |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:33 - Mar 20 by Northernr |
One of the techniques Ben and Christian use a lot is to bury the audience in figures, most of which can never possibly be proved one way or the other, and then if you say 'come on, we can all see Poku, Chair, Madsen, Burrell etc have been out for months and injuries have killed our season' then you're told you're speaking "anecdotally" and what you're saying isn't backed up by "the data". |
‘Tis the modern way unfortunately, corporate life is awash with people like this
Talking Anecdotally, my arse, what other sort of talk is there? |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:59 - Mar 20 with 5639 views | wombat |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:53 - Mar 20 by TheChef |
Yes I'm sorry everyone but fans' eyesight is not compatible with the data.
Your favourite player may not be available.
Keep clapping you bstards. [Post edited 20 Mar 10:32]
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Is he trying to be footballs version of jack nichollson in a Few good men
we cant handle the truth ! | |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 10:11 - Mar 20 with 5589 views | Jevlar |
Reading the comments here has confirmed exactly how I already thought an interview with Ben Williams would sound so I’m not sure I can bring myself to listen to it.
Him and Nourry are cut from the same cloth and I can’t get on board with the way Nourry speaks either. To me, it sounds false.
If you can say it in 10 words don’t say it in 50 as that way you get to the heart of the matter more quickly.
Stop the BS. |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 10:12 - Mar 20 with 5567 views | QPR_Jim |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:33 - Mar 20 by Northernr |
One of the techniques Ben and Christian use a lot is to bury the audience in figures, most of which can never possibly be proved one way or the other, and then if you say 'come on, we can all see Poku, Chair, Madsen, Burrell etc have been out for months and injuries have killed our season' then you're told you're speaking "anecdotally" and what you're saying isn't backed up by "the data". |
This is possibly the reason why I've not listened to this podcast or particularly interested in listening to anything Hoos or Nourry say either. Usually an interview with senior members of the QPR management would have my interest but we all know i will be no new information (don't want to give away a competitive advantage after all) and trying to justify their performance and methods despite the actual results in front of us. Complete waste of time and not worth engaging with. |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 10:18 - Mar 20 with 5525 views | KensalT |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:52 - Mar 20 by Lblock |
Heretic! |
:-)
To refer back to Bosh's original post:
- I'm not a hater
- I was a doubter
I'm not a doubter any more.......
Now I'm convinced Williams is taking the p!ss. [Post edited 20 Mar 14:51]
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 10:22 - Mar 20 with 5485 views | dm97 |
Bar the Patron really can’t be arsed with any more exposure to the club than is required by going to games.
Said from start their comms management is a huge issue. Coming on a podcast now and then to throw data around is not comms. It’s just more gaslighting.
Tell me more about how you understand I’m disappointed my favourite players are injured, please |  | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 10:24 - Mar 20 with 5473 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 09:33 - Mar 20 by Northernr |
One of the techniques Ben and Christian use a lot is to bury the audience in figures, most of which can never possibly be proved one way or the other, and then if you say 'come on, we can all see Poku, Chair, Madsen, Burrell etc have been out for months and injuries have killed our season' then you're told you're speaking "anecdotally" and what you're saying isn't backed up by "the data". |
Reading the thread to this point, it seems this is a lesson for future interviews with these data pups: Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance - in other words, next time you have one of these lot on, go in armed with your own stats to bolster your point and/or, counter theirs.
It's 'kin obvious that injuries have killed us; we look slower than most teams; and we often look like we're blowing out our arses in the last 10-15 minutes! |  |
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| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 10:42 - Mar 20 with 5377 views | JamesB1979 |
Interesting quote was about looking back at times when they “should have stepped in, and they didn’t” regarding players being available. I took that to be about players that played too much eg Burrell, Chair and Madsen. | | | |
| Ben Williams on Open All Hours Podcast Tonight. on 10:58 - Mar 20 with 5308 views | langtoft |
I've stuck with it and 2 things struck me. Either ……..
1 we are hugely over engineering this with all these 'elite performance specialist' types focusing on individual aspects to secure fine margins, or
2. imagine how much worse Birmingham away would have been if all these 'elite performance specialist' types weren't propping up this average mid table championship team | | | |
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