| Thatcher dead 12:56 - Apr 8 with 82401 views | six_foot_two |
Skynews are are saying Magaret Thatcher has died of a stroke |  | | |  |
| Thatcher dead on 16:48 - Apr 9 with 1776 views | FDC |
| Thatcher dead on 16:28 - Apr 9 by real_loftus |
I think you doth protest too much! ;)
In this instance I think my point is valid. I experienced the rolling power cuts, the rubbish piled on the streets, the bodies in the crematoriums, pre-Thatcher. So I have a valid opinion on what happened before she came to power. Likewise, someone like DaiHoop experienced life in South Wales during the miner's strike, with families starving and stolen sheep being butchered in the back rooms of village pubs to make sure everyone had food. These opinions and others like them, I now have respect for because they're real.
What I dont have any time for, is faux-intelligentsia, spouting rhetoric that they've read in some student pamphlet, based on nothing more than hearsay and lies. Being there and experiencing it, on this occasion, does give me and others a more detailed and real understanding.
Just saying..... |
I get your point and there's something to be said for what you're saying... but shortage of affordable housing, growth driven by credit, consequences of the economic crisis being pushed onto those least able to afford it - these are all things that are happening now, not in the 80s, but they have their roots back then imo.
And anyway, I'm in my 30s, married, and up to my eyeballs in debt that keeps me awake at night - so your characterisation of me is slightly wrong. (I'll take faux-intelligensia on the chin though ;-) )
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 16:58 - Apr 9 with 1744 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Thatcher dead on 16:46 - Apr 9 by SuffolkHoop |
Completely agree. Regardless of politics, disrespecting someones death in the way that many are trumpeting is such a thick headed and indecent thing to do. I would genuinely have expected better. |
I know you're right, 100% right in fact, and ordinarily I wouldn't dream of posting what I did yesterday. Thatcher's death feels different, though, and it still does today. I despised so much about her and her actions were deplorable to me. I don't know what it says about me, but it is the truth.
If I had been alive when the likes of Hitler or Cromwell died I would have felt no need to give their deaths any respect. I feel the same today, and if George W Bush goes before me I'll feel the same that day too, I'd imagine. I'm sure it's not right but, strangely, it feels right. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:01 - Apr 9 with 1724 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 16:46 - Apr 9 by SuffolkHoop |
Completely agree. Regardless of politics, disrespecting someones death in the way that many are trumpeting is such a thick headed and indecent thing to do. I would genuinely have expected better. |
I wondered how long it would take for the personal insults to come out. It generally does when someone hasn't managed to change a "thick headed" persons opinion by force of what I (and most certainly they) assume to be their superior intellect. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 17:04 - Apr 9 with 1722 views | A40Bosh |
| Thatcher dead on 16:48 - Apr 9 by FDC |
I get your point and there's something to be said for what you're saying... but shortage of affordable housing, growth driven by credit, consequences of the economic crisis being pushed onto those least able to afford it - these are all things that are happening now, not in the 80s, but they have their roots back then imo.
And anyway, I'm in my 30s, married, and up to my eyeballs in debt that keeps me awake at night - so your characterisation of me is slightly wrong. (I'll take faux-intelligensia on the chin though ;-) )
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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The one thing I would add (sitting by default in the "I'm alright Jack" camp by virtue of a cushy upbringing in suburbia) is that some comments on here would indicate that Thatcher and Reagan were dictators in the same way as Hitler, Lenin and Stalin were.
Whilst I wont defend MT, I dont have an opinion on her either way to be honest, my un-faux-intelligensia simpletons view of life tells me that at the end of the day she was the leader of an elected conservative government that won three concurrent elections. Therefore there were sufficient numbers of the UK population from 1979 to 1987 that voted "her" back in that must have meant that there was sufficient numbers of the voting population able to separate her dogmatic leadership style from the policies of a conservative government.
So I don't think it was the 1% versus 99% quoted above.
"We" as a country voted her in 3 times, so where we are today as a society is not the direct fault of one individual alone. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:07 - Apr 9 with 1705 views | MkPaul |
| Thatcher dead on 17:01 - Apr 9 by Cliff |
I wondered how long it would take for the personal insults to come out. It generally does when someone hasn't managed to change a "thick headed" persons opinion by force of what I (and most certainly they) assume to be their superior intellect. |
Deleted as cant be bothered [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 17:09 - Apr 9 with 1689 views | QPR_John |
| Thatcher dead on 17:01 - Apr 9 by Cliff |
I wondered how long it would take for the personal insults to come out. It generally does when someone hasn't managed to change a "thick headed" persons opinion by force of what I (and most certainly they) assume to be their superior intellect. |
"I for one cracked open a bottle of bubbly last night, and found "Ding Dong the witch is dead" on youtube to play to the kids. "
I think the personal insults started many posts ago.
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| Thatcher dead on 17:12 - Apr 9 with 1677 views | Gloucs_R |
| Thatcher dead on 17:04 - Apr 9 by A40Bosh |
The one thing I would add (sitting by default in the "I'm alright Jack" camp by virtue of a cushy upbringing in suburbia) is that some comments on here would indicate that Thatcher and Reagan were dictators in the same way as Hitler, Lenin and Stalin were.
Whilst I wont defend MT, I dont have an opinion on her either way to be honest, my un-faux-intelligensia simpletons view of life tells me that at the end of the day she was the leader of an elected conservative government that won three concurrent elections. Therefore there were sufficient numbers of the UK population from 1979 to 1987 that voted "her" back in that must have meant that there was sufficient numbers of the voting population able to separate her dogmatic leadership style from the policies of a conservative government.
So I don't think it was the 1% versus 99% quoted above.
"We" as a country voted her in 3 times, so where we are today as a society is not the direct fault of one individual alone. |
It's a good point. If she was so evil, as some would have you believe, how was she re elected three times? Maybe she did more for the majority than the minority but the minority usually shout loudest. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:14 - Apr 9 with 1662 views | stowmarketrange |
| Thatcher dead on 17:12 - Apr 9 by Gloucs_R |
It's a good point. If she was so evil, as some would have you believe, how was she re elected three times? Maybe she did more for the majority than the minority but the minority usually shout loudest. |
Maybe its because the majority never voted for her but the minority did? |  | | |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:17 - Apr 9 with 1648 views | Gloucs_R |
| Thatcher dead on 17:14 - Apr 9 by stowmarketrange |
Maybe its because the majority never voted for her but the minority did? |
Then how would you get elected? | |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:19 - Apr 9 with 1642 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Thatcher dead on 16:34 - Apr 9 by Cliff |
Not a history student I take it then!
Still the good news is it's only a few more years to go and there'll be no one alive who can remember what Stalin or Hitler were really like, and we can stop assuming they were evil as there's no one left to tell us. Happy days. |
So we're onto comparisons with Stalin and Hitler now. I wonder what's next. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 17:19 - Apr 9 with 1639 views | FDC |
| Thatcher dead on 17:12 - Apr 9 by Gloucs_R |
It's a good point. If she was so evil, as some would have you believe, how was she re elected three times? Maybe she did more for the majority than the minority but the minority usually shout loudest. |
Wonderful vision of the potential for the human race you have there Gloucs.
If I say to you: "There's a way out of this mess; it involves fcking up some people - but don't worry, you're not one of them," do you jump in?
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| Thatcher dead on 17:20 - Apr 9 with 1636 views | stowmarketrange |
| Thatcher dead on 17:17 - Apr 9 by Gloucs_R |
Then how would you get elected? |
You get elected by being the largest minority. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 17:22 - Apr 9 with 1625 views | Gloucs_R |
| Thatcher dead on 17:20 - Apr 9 by stowmarketrange |
You get elected by being the largest minority. |
And did she have the minority but get elected?
Fdc, what are you on about? | |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:25 - Apr 9 with 1607 views | stowmarketrange |
| Thatcher dead on 17:22 - Apr 9 by Gloucs_R |
And did she have the minority but get elected?
Fdc, what are you on about? |
You tell me any Government in the history of more than two parties in our system where one party has over 50% of the vote. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 17:27 - Apr 9 with 1592 views | simmo |
THIS THREAD
*insert flogging dead horse gif here* |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:35 - Apr 9 with 1560 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 17:19 - Apr 9 by Clive_Anderson |
So we're onto comparisons with Stalin and Hitler now. I wonder what's next. |
I take it that was a willful misinterpretation of what I said but in case it wasn't let me explain.
At no point did I compare anyone to Stalin or Hitler (note also the use of a figure from both extremes of the political spectrum). If you follow the thread of posts leading up to my post you will see that there was a bit of a debate about what age you needed to be to have an opinion on Thatcher, with the post mine quotes being of the opinion that anyone how is of insufficient age, i.e. didn't live through the Thatcher years can't have a "real understanding" of what went on.
So to sum up no one was compared to anyone in my post, what was compared was how someone's opinion on a political figure can be valid even if they weren't there in person, otherwise how can we ever have opinions on historical figures like the ones mentioned.
One of the problems with forum debates like this (and before you mention it, yes I know I'm probably just as much to blame as anyone else) is that people try to undermine someone's whole point of view by picking on some minor point used to illustrate their argument, without discussing the issue as a whole, which descends in to minor point scoring. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 17:36 - Apr 9 with 1559 views | Aunt_Nelly |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:41 - Apr 9 with 1541 views | FDC |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:48 - Apr 9 with 1514 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 17:09 - Apr 9 by QPR_John |
"I for one cracked open a bottle of bubbly last night, and found "Ding Dong the witch is dead" on youtube to play to the kids. "
I think the personal insults started many posts ago.
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Agreed but not of a fellow posters just because I couldn't convert them to my opinion. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 17:49 - Apr 9 with 1513 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Thatcher dead on 17:35 - Apr 9 by Cliff |
I take it that was a willful misinterpretation of what I said but in case it wasn't let me explain.
At no point did I compare anyone to Stalin or Hitler (note also the use of a figure from both extremes of the political spectrum). If you follow the thread of posts leading up to my post you will see that there was a bit of a debate about what age you needed to be to have an opinion on Thatcher, with the post mine quotes being of the opinion that anyone how is of insufficient age, i.e. didn't live through the Thatcher years can't have a "real understanding" of what went on.
So to sum up no one was compared to anyone in my post, what was compared was how someone's opinion on a political figure can be valid even if they weren't there in person, otherwise how can we ever have opinions on historical figures like the ones mentioned.
One of the problems with forum debates like this (and before you mention it, yes I know I'm probably just as much to blame as anyone else) is that people try to undermine someone's whole point of view by picking on some minor point used to illustrate their argument, without discussing the issue as a whole, which descends in to minor point scoring. |
Fair enough. I just think most of the hatred towards Thatcher is completely irrational. Some of the things people accuse her of are absolutely ridiculous.
Strangely she seems more hated now than when she was actually in power. I couldn't stand Gordon Brown, but a few years on I couldn't give a toss what he is up to as long as he doesn't come back into government. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 17:49 - Apr 9 with 1507 views | TheBlob |
Well if we're talking general nastiness,personal insults and bile,I for one will crack a bottle of bubbly when Morrissey dies.
Hang about.Make that two bottles when Billy Bragg f*cks off.
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| Thatcher dead on 17:51 - Apr 9 with 1501 views | QPR1882 |
I wonder how the those celebrating the death of Margret Thatcher would feel if someone laughed at the death of their Mother or Farther ? |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 17:56 - Apr 9 with 1486 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Thatcher dead on 17:51 - Apr 9 by QPR1882 |
I wonder how the those celebrating the death of Margret Thatcher would feel if someone laughed at the death of their Mother or Farther ? |
Pretty bad, I'd imagine, but then if I was Thatcher's son I'd be a dealer of arms and death so there's be a whole karma thing going on there too. | |
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| Thatcher dead on 17:56 - Apr 9 with 1483 views | Gloucs_R |
| Thatcher dead on 17:25 - Apr 9 by stowmarketrange |
You tell me any Government in the history of more than two parties in our system where one party has over 50% of the vote. |
14m voted for her in 79
13m in 83
14m in 87
That's a lot of people getting it wrong every time isn't it?
14m again in 92 voted Tory
14m in 97 voted labour
10m in 01 voted labour
9m in 05 voted labour
11m voted Tory in 2010
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| Thatcher dead on 17:57 - Apr 9 with 1481 views | ElHoop |
| Thatcher dead on 17:14 - Apr 9 by stowmarketrange |
Maybe its because the majority never voted for her but the minority did? |
She was elected three times because there was no united/credible opposition at the time. Labour was hijacked by the lunatic fringe and a big chunk the SDP/centre element jumped ship. That part included David Owen who would probably have been Labour leader in more enlightened times. The SDP then formed an alliance with the Liberals which took 25% of the vote in 1983 and 23% in 1987, so the split in the anti-Tory vote was pretty much down the middle and it kept the Tories in power.
So Thatcher came to power by virtue of the unruly left and then was kept in power by the split caused by the unruly left. So I'm not sure why the modern unruly left is celebrating - you'd think they'd want to forget about her and learn their lesson. |  | | |
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