| Thatcher dead 12:56 - Apr 8 with 82529 views | six_foot_two |
Skynews are are saying Magaret Thatcher has died of a stroke |  | | |  |
| Thatcher dead on 22:30 - Apr 10 with 1514 views | michael67 |
| Thatcher dead on 22:23 - Apr 10 by QPR1882 |
Making someone who could never afford their own home a home owner made you feel important,gave you a bit of pride.
By the way you could not sell your property for a profit for 5 years after you had brought it.
So getting the tin tack and selling up and banking the profit was never an option. |
And this was a problem for those in the north who did buy their home. Many did lose their jobs and eventually their homes. Making them worse off than when they first started. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 22:34 - Apr 10 with 1509 views | QPR1882 |
| Thatcher dead on 22:29 - Apr 10 by kensalriser |
The right to buy was originally a Liberal policy that involved using the proceeds to build new social housing. The tories took the policy and perverted it by removing the back end and effectively using it as a gerrymandering policy. There's no doubt that it was one the factors that fuelled the subsequent property boom. I don't really blame anyone for taking advantage of it, but that doesn't change the fact that it was free money for some paid for by others. |
free money for some paid for by others
hows that ?
The people who got the right to buy a house had been living in the same property for years and had been paying rent to do so.
So yes they got a result, buy how did others have to pay ? |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 22:36 - Apr 10 with 1506 views | QPR1882 |
| Thatcher dead on 22:30 - Apr 10 by michael67 |
And this was a problem for those in the north who did buy their home. Many did lose their jobs and eventually their homes. Making them worse off than when they first started. |
Same happened to folk North and South who were in full time employment. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 22:46 - Apr 10 with 1498 views | kensalriser |
| Thatcher dead on 22:34 - Apr 10 by QPR1882 |
free money for some paid for by others
hows that ?
The people who got the right to buy a house had been living in the same property for years and had been paying rent to do so.
So yes they got a result, buy how did others have to pay ? |
When the State (or in this case a local authority) sells something for below its true market value, the difference between the sale value and the market value is effectively paid for by everyone else. In much the same way that we all paid for the banks to get bailed out.
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| Thatcher dead on 23:03 - Apr 10 with 1479 views | QPR1882 |
| Thatcher dead on 22:46 - Apr 10 by kensalriser |
When the State (or in this case a local authority) sells something for below its true market value, the difference between the sale value and the market value is effectively paid for by everyone else. In much the same way that we all paid for the banks to get bailed out.
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. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 23:12 - Apr 10 with 1469 views | loftboy |
| Thatcher dead on 22:30 - Apr 10 by michael67 |
And this was a problem for those in the north who did buy their home. Many did lose their jobs and eventually their homes. Making them worse off than when they first started. |
But when these houses were built they were probably worth only 3-4000, my uncle bought his house brand new in Woking in the 60's for 4500, which is the decade that a lot of the houses sold in the 80's were built, so for instance my dad bought his council house valued at £48000 for £16000 it was still more than what it was worth when it was first built, the fact that in the 90's he sold it for considerably more is neither here or there, the council still made a profit themself. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 23:23 - Apr 10 with 1460 views | kensalriser |
Loftboy and QPR1882, the original cost is irrelevant, current value is all important. These properties were sold in most cases far below their true market value, in effect being subsidised by taxpayers. Fair enough, if you agree with the policy then make the argument for it and give your reasons, but it still remains that if one group of people are given a subsidy/benefit/incentive, call it what you like, it is paid for collectively by the rest of society. | |
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| Thatcher dead on 23:28 - Apr 10 with 1458 views | QPR1882 |
| Thatcher dead on 23:23 - Apr 10 by kensalriser |
Loftboy and QPR1882, the original cost is irrelevant, current value is all important. These properties were sold in most cases far below their true market value, in effect being subsidised by taxpayers. Fair enough, if you agree with the policy then make the argument for it and give your reasons, but it still remains that if one group of people are given a subsidy/benefit/incentive, call it what you like, it is paid for collectively by the rest of society. |
. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 23:52 - Apr 10 with 1434 views | MkPaul |
My god there are some drama queens on here, if she was the devil then she wouldn't have been voted in 3 times some people need to get a grip on reality because the strange world they live in doesn't seem the kind of place I would want to live in
Please please get a grip |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 23:57 - Apr 10 with 1430 views | kensalriser |
| Thatcher dead on 23:28 - Apr 10 by QPR1882 |
. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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I don't really see how that's relevant. Vehicles decrease in value as they're used. The council has the use of the vehicle in the meantime and then sells it for what the market will pay. And yes, of course tax payers pay for that, who else does?
Make an argument for the policy, at the moment you're just denying economic facts. | |
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| Thatcher dead on 00:02 - Apr 11 with 1422 views | Red_Ranger |
| Thatcher dead on 23:52 - Apr 10 by MkPaul |
My god there are some drama queens on here, if she was the devil then she wouldn't have been voted in 3 times some people need to get a grip on reality because the strange world they live in doesn't seem the kind of place I would want to live in
Please please get a grip |
A devil I tell you - smell the sulphur, look at her horns. 'Nelson Mandela is a terrorist' | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 00:09 - Apr 11 with 1416 views | QPR1882 |
| Thatcher dead on 23:57 - Apr 10 by kensalriser |
I don't really see how that's relevant. Vehicles decrease in value as they're used. The council has the use of the vehicle in the meantime and then sells it for what the market will pay. And yes, of course tax payers pay for that, who else does?
Make an argument for the policy, at the moment you're just denying economic facts. |
. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 00:11 - Apr 11 with 1414 views | DaiHo0p |
She's gone. No biggy.
We just have to wipe out her memory and continue with human development...
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| Thatcher dead on 00:26 - Apr 11 with 1404 views | Brightonhoop |
| Thatcher dead on 23:28 - Apr 10 by QPR1882 |
. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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I've tried to stay off this thread but you are truly thick and clearly think shouting and pursuing some non-sensical view somehow makes others wrong and you right. I've seen nursery school children with better grasps of rational debate and certainly better manners with regards the views of others. Do you think it is clever to be such a moron?
Social Housing, or Council Housing, was built with public money after the war to house the population from a bombed out housing stock and slums that had fallen into disrepair after years of war. Therefore assett cost at time of sale was the only measureable feature. So when houses were sold for 20% of value it was all of us that were robbed, to gift the purchases. One purchaser I recall was a cabinet minister who bought three houses through convulated family arrangements, one ending up in ownership by his hamster. (I'm lying about the hamster by the way). This was why they brought in rules about having to retain ownership for years afterward and then stopped it completely more or less, because even Thatcher was embarrassed by the frenzy of pigs she'd unleashed. Worst of all she didn't allow Councils to re-invest the paltry sums against Market values of the properties in rebuilding which is the single largest contributor to the fake and inflated housing costs now, in both rent and ownership.
As for Vehicles? All Councils and Private Companies use an agreed depreciation index to measure assett value and report accordingly each year in Accounts. There are several different indexes all producing largely the same results.
For the Thatcher record this Housing Act of 1980 was her only major piece of legislation. This from the Downing Street website, all subsequent legislation either massively watered down or repealed later.
Attlee meanwhile, as Deputy PM to Churchill in the War, ushered in the Housing Act that saw the Council Houses she sold and failed to replace, built. He then as PM ushered in National Insurance, to help fund the worlds first National Health Service, amongst all the other incredible achievements below in a Five year span.
Law Reform (Contributory Negligence) Act 1945
Housing (Financial and Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1946
Coal Industry Nationalisation Act 1946
Furnished Houses (Rent Control) Act 1946
National Health Service Act 1946
National Insurance Act 1946
National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) Act 1946
New Towns Act 1946
Trade Disputes and Trade Unions Act 1946
Hill Farming Act 1946
Agriculture Act 1947
Pensions (Increase) Act 1947
Electricity Act 1947
Town and Country Planning Act 1947
Transport Act 1947
National Assistance Act 1948
Children Act 1948
Factories Act 1948
Education (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1948
Agricultural Holdings Act 1948
Employment and Training Act 1948
Nurseries and Child-Minders Regulation Act 1948
Law Reform (Personal Injuries) Act 1948
Local Government Act 1948
Representation of the People Act 1948
Housing Act 1949
Superannuation Act 1949
House of Commons (Redistribution of Seats) Act 1949
Landlord and Tenant (Rent Control) Act 1949
Lands Tribunal Act 1949
Legal Aid and Advice Act 1949
Adoption of Children Act 1949
Marriage Act 1949
National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949
Parliament Act 1949
Representation of the People Act 1949
Distribution of Industry Act 1950
Coal-Mining (Subsidence) Act 1950
Allotments Act 1950
Workmen's Compensation (Supplementation) Act 1951
It doesn't take Einstein to see that Thatcher was shyte by comparison and similar degrees of contempt for English people not seen since Hitler started bombing us. But carry on with the sycophantic eulogising, because the facts speak for themselves, She was such a great PM that even the Tory's couldn't stand her in the end and queued up to knife her in the back. Lovely people that they are. Tebbit himself stated today in the Lords, that after the IRA Bomb and his retirement to look after his wife, he regretted having not been there for Thatcher lamenting and I quote 'I should not have left her alone with friends....' An astonishing statement.
The last decent Tory was Lord Carrington. He had the b4lls and integrity to resign on principle of having lost the Falklands. He was the very last Gentleman in the Tory Party. In one generation you gone into terminal decline and reached the giddy heights of the odious Michael Howard.
And for the record Labour did the same. They went from the formidable intellect of Michael Foot, gracious man of peace we could still learn alot from, to Tony farking Blair who hated Thatcher so much he embraced her and carried on her work once elected. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 00:37 - Apr 11 with 1400 views | FredManRave |
Thoroughly interesting thread which I've followed from the start. I can relate to what Bosh has been said more than anything else which is why I've found this thread so interesting and educational and as someboday else mentioned recently it's been good to see that there has been no inter R's fighting just two sides trying to get their point across, albeit forcibly, but within acceptable limits.
However, the worst part, imo, and not just on here, is those that see fit to want to "dance on her grave" and such like. It's not really surprising as she was obviously such a divisive politician/person but really just putting your argument/point across on the reasons "against" her should suffice, no need for the vitriol, but that's just my opinion.
It should also be taken into account that any one of us would have made a few dodgy decisions and maybe been a bit dogged if we'd have only slept for 4 hours a night for 11 years. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 00:43 - Apr 11 with 1394 views | carrotcrunch_R |
If a manager can't please all the fans after winning the championship ?what chances does a pm have to please the whole country.? |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 01:18 - Apr 11 with 1378 views | jo_qpr63 |
She did nothing of value for this country.
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| Thatcher dead on 02:30 - Apr 11 with 1368 views | NW5Hoop |
| Thatcher dead on 11:52 - Apr 10 by Clive_Anderson |
Without the police I think you would have seen a lot more non-striking workers killed and injured on the picket lines. |
And you probably would have seen an awful lot fewer striking miners killed and injured.
Of the 10 deaths that happened in and around the mines during the strike, one was a taxi driver taking strike breakers to work. The strikers responsible were jailed. Three were kids picking coal on a colliery waste heap. The other six were striking miners; two of the deaths remain suspicious.
As a result of the "Battle of Orgreave", South Yorkshire Police had to pay £425,000 in compensation and £100,000 in legal fees to striking miners, after accusations of assault and unlawful arrest. Despite the payments, not a single police officer was even disciplined, let alone charged.
Although I identify myself as centre-left, my own feelings about the miners' strike are ambivalent at best. However, to hail the police for the job they did in 1984/85 is simply wrong. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 03:26 - Apr 11 with 1363 views | jonno |
| Thatcher dead on 12:43 - Apr 10 by nadera78 |
There's a profit guarantee. If they don't make X in prices then the government makes up the rest. |
Total rubbish. Certainly in the case of gas/electricity suppliers. You are thinking of the railways. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 03:36 - Apr 11 with 1360 views | jonno |
| Thatcher dead on 15:34 - Apr 10 by Stanisgod |
You must live in a very different world to me mate, HR is human resources, which took over from personell departments, two very very different animals. The old personell departments were very much 50/50 and on the fence help both sides people ( at least the ones I've been associated with ), who you could talk to about literally ANYTHING, home problems, work issues, union issues, health, anything. And they listened even if they couldn't always help.
I've found since it went to HR they have become cold, uncaring totally employer biased places.
The first two lines are so naive I can't even get my head round it. No offence meant, but I get the impression from previous posts you are not exactly shop-floor orientated, so are completely blinkered as to all the good unions do, which far outway the bad, which is all you hear about. Again, no offence,perhaps just differing experience and a different walk of life involved. |
That is absolutely correct. Once the "Personnel" dept changed to "HR", suddenly "HR" became a "profession" and obviously companies employed HR "professionals" for their own interests, ie to work on their side against the interests of their employess. That has certainly been the case where I work anyway. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 07:29 - Apr 11 with 1332 views | hoopstilidie |
| Thatcher dead on 20:24 - Apr 10 by easthertsr |
Having read all this thread, one point has not been mentioned, under Thatcher the rich got richer and the poor got poorer. And being poor was demonized for the first time, it was a horrible, hateful time with people turning against each other in every section of society. All down to that spiteful woman and her wicked, nasty policies. I was 24 when she came to power and 11 years later when she left office my country was a nastier, greedier, more violent place to live. |
The rich/poor divide widened under the last Labour government.
That's a fact. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 08:47 - Apr 11 with 1303 views | R_from_afar |
| Thatcher dead on 16:34 - Apr 10 by Snipper |
Another thing that really pissed me off about her, she got Dennis awarded a hereditary knighthood. It's already been passed onto her son.
She really hated her working class roots and ensured the title is passed down the generations.
Bitch. . |
On this note, I was stunned to see that her son is Sir Mark. He was involved in a coup d'etat! To quote Wikipedia:
Thatcher attracted attention as a result of his role in an attempted coup in Equatorial Guinea, for which he was fined R3,000,000 rand (approximately £313,000 or $500,000) and received a four-year suspended jail sentence.
Hells bells (shakes head gravely)!
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Thatcher dead on 08:48 - Apr 11 with 1301 views | easthertsr |
The gap between rich and poor widened under the last Labour government because those bar stewards Blair and Brown largely continued with the same policies the previous Tory governments had started! | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 08:54 - Apr 11 with 1294 views | R_from_afar |
| Thatcher dead on 19:07 - Apr 10 by TheBlob |
So fracking is a short term fix.It's either that or having the punters marching on Downing Street when the lights go out.I don't accept nuclear is sporadic - depends on what kind of reactor you use.And it'll be a fill - in until you humans finally decide to mine Helium3 on our nearest celestial body.
Maggie would have approved - more privately sourced wonga for the UK. |
I double checked my facts, from a paper by the Rocky Mountain Institute, and on average, it's two days per month. When New York suffered those power cuts in 2003, working nuclear plants - nine, from memory - had to be taken offline and it took 12 days to get them back up and running. A close friend worked in the UK nuclear industry and led a project covering safety instrumentation for one of the UK's plants. The plant was down for at least weeks, as I recall, which is why there were punitive clauses for late completion of the project running into thousands of pounds per day.
RFA | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Thatcher dead on 09:03 - Apr 11 with 1285 views | hoopstilidie |
| Thatcher dead on 08:48 - Apr 11 by easthertsr |
The gap between rich and poor widened under the last Labour government because those bar stewards Blair and Brown largely continued with the same policies the previous Tory governments had started! |
For all those who hark back to the halcyon days of Labour government that preceded the Thatcher years:
"When Labour was elected in 1974 its manifesto promised, 'It is our intention to bring about a fundamental and irreversible shift in the balance of power and wealth in favour of working people and their families.'
In fact the 1974-9 government imposed the greatest attacks on working class living standards since the hungry years of the 1930s.
Housing - by 1978 fewer council houses were being built than in any year since the Second World War.
Health - 25,000 hospital beds went in the first two years of the Labour government.
Education - teachers suffered large scale redundancies for the first time in living memory.
Prices - doubled between February 1974 and December 1978.
Jobs - 1,000 a day went in Labour's first three years. Unemployment was 500,000 in 1974. It reached 1.6 million in 1976.
Wages - a family of four on average earnings was worse off in 1979 than in 1974. Behind those cold statistics lay the shattered lives of millions of working people."
Source: "The Socialist Worker", 26 January 2002. | |
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