| Thatcher dead 12:56 - Apr 8 with 82429 views | six_foot_two |
Skynews are are saying Magaret Thatcher has died of a stroke |  | | |  |
| Thatcher dead on 09:24 - Apr 12 with 1696 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 08:58 - Apr 12 by pomanjou |
The poll tax. A totally justified tax to make everybody pay rather than those qualifying on an arbitrary basis. I'd bring it in tomoro. |
Then you're a fool |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 09:26 - Apr 12 with 1689 views | BlackCrowe |
| Thatcher dead on 09:16 - Apr 12 by nadera78 |
That's oh so funny.
Tell me, was it only miners who were screwed over by Thatcher? No, of course it wasn't.
What about those in their twenties who were born to parents thrown on the scrapheap by Thatcher? Who grew up in communities that have still not recovered from her policies?
But that's okay, you borrowed a funny picture from someone else and posted it on a forum. Well done you. |
Apparently Thatch closed around 1400 mines whereas Harold Wilson closed just under 4,000. Why didn't the miners celebrate his death - genuine question? |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 09:31 - Apr 12 with 1681 views | stevec |
| Thatcher dead on 09:09 - Apr 12 by BrianMcCarthy |
John and Pom,
I'll try. Isn't a basic tenet of taxation that it be equitable, and that it therefore be structured based on the relative ability to pay?
VAT and the Poll Tax were charged with being inherently inequitable as they are/were aimed at disposable income, in their cases weekly shopping and rent/mortgages. As those with lower incomes spend a greater amount of their disposable incomes than those with higher incomes, this hits them not just equally but harder.
On the other end of the scale is inheritance tax, which is clearly a tax on wealth and nothing else.
In between is what's held by most economists I've read as the most equitable tax of all - income tax.
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Could never understand why Thatcher thought poll tax was a good idea, as you say, the sensible thing was to remove rates and gather it via income tax.
Tory policy was always to keep income tax rates down so perhaps it was ideology.
Strange, though, that no other party since has tried to reform via income tax.
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| Thatcher dead on 09:36 - Apr 12 with 1672 views | nadera78 |
| Thatcher dead on 09:26 - Apr 12 by BlackCrowe |
Apparently Thatch closed around 1400 mines whereas Harold Wilson closed just under 4,000. Why didn't the miners celebrate his death - genuine question? |
I've answered this already on this thread. The mines closed in the 60's and 70's were all exhausted or only had coal left that couldn't be reached. The majority of the miners affected moved to other mines. Plus, the 60's was a time of full employment so it was relatively easy to leave one job and find another soon after.
You also have to consider the way Thatcher went about doing it. The stockpiling of coal over the previous few years and the massive hike in Police pay when every other public sector worker was seeing the opposite, both in preparation for a trap she was setting for the NUM. Which Scargill waked into. The lies spread via her friends in the media (including the Trotskyite BBC - see Orgreave reporting), the attacks on strikers by police, the alleged use of soldiers in police uniforms. It all adds up and it's eft a legacy of communities that have never recovered and also families and friendships destroyed by the choices people were forced to make at the time. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 09:42 - Apr 12 with 1660 views | Gloucs_R |
Now I am a Thatcher fan but £10m on her funeral  
No way in the world should we be spending that on her. That's ridiculous. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 10:06 - Apr 12 with 1569 views | HantsR |
| Thatcher dead on 08:58 - Apr 12 by pomanjou |
The poll tax. A totally justified tax to make everybody pay rather than those qualifying on an arbitrary basis. I'd bring it in tomoro. |
I believe the poll tax failed because, regardless of its merits or shortcomings,it was ultimately simply too difficult to administer and collect. Houses remain fixed whereas people move around and are difficult to pin down for tax purposes.
It was conceived based on the perceived iniquity of a household with many dwellers, cars, use of public services etc. paying the same rates as a single dweller. |  | | |
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| Thatcher dead on 10:16 - Apr 12 with 1555 views | easthertsr |
| Thatcher dead on 09:26 - Apr 12 by BlackCrowe |
Apparently Thatch closed around 1400 mines whereas Harold Wilson closed just under 4,000. Why didn't the miners celebrate his death - genuine question? |
Because he didn't cast them aside with f*ck all, Thatcher had no time for those who didn't support her, she didn't give a flying f*ck about the poor or their kids. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 10:17 - Apr 12 with 1554 views | ElHoop |
| Thatcher dead on 09:42 - Apr 12 by Gloucs_R |
Now I am a Thatcher fan but £10m on her funeral
No way in the world should we be spending that on her. That's ridiculous. |
Can't we charge it against the EU Rebate account in the books?
Debit: EU Rebate account £10m
Credit: Funeral Costs account £10m
I reckon that the EU rebate account will still be in credit, just.
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| Thatcher dead on 10:41 - Apr 12 with 1522 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 10:17 - Apr 12 by ElHoop |
Can't we charge it against the EU Rebate account in the books?
Debit: EU Rebate account £10m
Credit: Funeral Costs account £10m
I reckon that the EU rebate account will still be in credit, just.
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A lot is made of the UK rebate, but it's not just us that get it Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands and Austria already get rebates and Denmark is being added to the list. The value is calculated via a formula looking at the differences between contributions to the EU and benefits gained.
Also do you really think in these times of austerity that this is a sensible use of public finances. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 10:51 - Apr 12 with 1511 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Thatcher dead on 09:36 - Apr 12 by nadera78 |
I've answered this already on this thread. The mines closed in the 60's and 70's were all exhausted or only had coal left that couldn't be reached. The majority of the miners affected moved to other mines. Plus, the 60's was a time of full employment so it was relatively easy to leave one job and find another soon after.
You also have to consider the way Thatcher went about doing it. The stockpiling of coal over the previous few years and the massive hike in Police pay when every other public sector worker was seeing the opposite, both in preparation for a trap she was setting for the NUM. Which Scargill waked into. The lies spread via her friends in the media (including the Trotskyite BBC - see Orgreave reporting), the attacks on strikers by police, the alleged use of soldiers in police uniforms. It all adds up and it's eft a legacy of communities that have never recovered and also families and friendships destroyed by the choices people were forced to make at the time. |
So every single one of the 4,000 mines closed under Harold Wilson had been exhasted, but none of the 1,400 ones under Thatcher were?
That seems pretty unlikely to me. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 10:52 - Apr 12 with 1502 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Thatcher dead on 10:16 - Apr 12 by easthertsr |
Because he didn't cast them aside with f*ck all, Thatcher had no time for those who didn't support her, she didn't give a flying f*ck about the poor or their kids. |
Genuine question here, what did Harold Wilson do for those that lost their jobs in the mining industry that Thatcher didn't? | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 10:55 - Apr 12 with 1493 views | ElHoop |
| Thatcher dead on 10:41 - Apr 12 by Cliff |
A lot is made of the UK rebate, but it's not just us that get it Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands and Austria already get rebates and Denmark is being added to the list. The value is calculated via a formula looking at the differences between contributions to the EU and benefits gained.
Also do you really think in these times of austerity that this is a sensible use of public finances. |
I can see that it's a lot of money and clearly she was a very divisive figure, but I think that her death has caused a lot of analysis of the political scene then and now, not least on here, and hopefully we'll get more than £10m worth of value from that process. She was a world figure and was respected more abroad than at home so if the world wants to pay its respects then that's fine by me. I dare say that if the state wouldn't pay then someone else would have done. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 10:58 - Apr 12 with 1483 views | Juzzie |
The wages may have gone up more than infaltion but housing prices (both buying and renting) have gone up 50% higher than wages so everyone is effectively worse off especially as paying off a mortgae or paying rent is still the biggest monthly outgoing most people have.
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| Thatcher dead on 11:02 - Apr 12 with 1473 views | doogi55 |
| Thatcher dead on 09:42 - Apr 12 by Gloucs_R |
Now I am a Thatcher fan but £10m on her funeral
No way in the world should we be spending that on her. That's ridiculous. |
what you have to think about what if blair dies he will have to have the same funeral.
has he did a lot for the country
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| Thatcher dead on 11:03 - Apr 12 with 1470 views | QPR1882 |
| Thatcher dead on 09:16 - Apr 12 by nadera78 |
That's oh so funny.
Tell me, was it only miners who were screwed over by Thatcher? No, of course it wasn't.
What about those in their twenties who were born to parents thrown on the scrapheap by Thatcher? Who grew up in communities that have still not recovered from her policies?
But that's okay, you borrowed a funny picture from someone else and posted it on a forum. Well done you. |
I was in my 20's when Thatcher was in power.
I decided to go to work instead of rebelling and becoming a punk, there was plenty of jobs if you could be bothered looking.
Guess some did and others did not, some made excuses others got on with life. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 11:03 - Apr 12 with 1466 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Thatcher dead on 10:58 - Apr 12 by Juzzie |
The wages may have gone up more than infaltion but housing prices (both buying and renting) have gone up 50% higher than wages so everyone is effectively worse off especially as paying off a mortgae or paying rent is still the biggest monthly outgoing most people have.
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Well I completely agree with the fact that house prices have ruined the working poor in this country. But the main house price inflation came in the 2000s over a decade after she left office and in 1997 prices were still very reasonable.
We need someone who will now take on the bankers, the corporations and the landed gentry. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 11:06 - Apr 12 with 1464 views | nadera78 |
| Thatcher dead on 10:51 - Apr 12 by Clive_Anderson |
So every single one of the 4,000 mines closed under Harold Wilson had been exhasted, but none of the 1,400 ones under Thatcher were?
That seems pretty unlikely to me. |
Every single one? I don't know. But more or less. The studies on the coal reserves were pretty conclusive in the 80's. There was still lots of coal to be worked out, with some of them holding enough for many, many decades. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 11:06 - Apr 12 with 1464 views | NW5Hoop |
| Thatcher dead on 09:26 - Apr 12 by BlackCrowe |
Apparently Thatch closed around 1400 mines whereas Harold Wilson closed just under 4,000. Why didn't the miners celebrate his death - genuine question? |
Those figures are wrong. We didn't have that many mines. Nowhere near.
But the basic point is right: mine closures were not greater in number in the 80s than in the 70s and 60s. The difference was that in the 80s they were closed in a much shorter span of time, and no provision was made for retraining or re-employing the people who were laid off in the 80s, whereas there had been in the 60s and 70s. So the miners who lost their jobs in the 60s and 70s were helped into finding a future. The miners who lost their jobs in the 80s were told: f*ck you. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 11:10 - Apr 12 with 1447 views | pomanjou |
Despite being a supporter of Thatch I think its a disgrace that such a massive amount should be spent on her funeral.
Having lived thru WWII and it would have been a travesty of the highest order if Skargill and his commie chums had won and for me it was just as important, if not more so, than The Falklands battle.
Skargills lasting legacy is thousands of men with emphesyma and other lung deseases which if he had had is way would now be infecting their kids as well. He was an evil man with ego and ambition much bigger (fortunately) than his brain.
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| Thatcher dead on 11:10 - Apr 12 with 1442 views | Hunterhoop |
| Thatcher dead on 10:52 - Apr 12 by Clive_Anderson |
Genuine question here, what did Harold Wilson do for those that lost their jobs in the mining industry that Thatcher didn't? |
Jesus H Christ. Nadera has answered this point at least 5 times.
In fact every time I log on and read just one page of this thread I seem to see someone asking this question and him answering it.
READ OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTS PROPERLY.
The point is the mines that Wilson shut were exhausted. Most miners moved to the remaining mines quite easily. And due to employment levels were easily able to get another job.
Whereas Thatcher, when she closed the mines, effectively closed the industry. There weren't other mines miners could go to. And because unemployment was higher there were fewer employment alternatives.
So Wilson didn't need to do anything because there was nothing to be done for miners when he shut mines.
When Thatcher shut mines, whilst she shut fewer, there was nowhere for miners to go. She knews this, didn't care and did nothing to help them find employment and provide for their families.
That is why there is more hate for Thatcher from miners and their relatives. It really isn't complicated nor needs the same question asked every 10 posts or so. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 11:13 - Apr 12 with 1427 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Thatcher dead on 11:06 - Apr 12 by nadera78 |
Every single one? I don't know. But more or less. The studies on the coal reserves were pretty conclusive in the 80's. There was still lots of coal to be worked out, with some of them holding enough for many, many decades. |
If that was the case then you'd expect an increase in the rate of decline in mining production when Thatcher was in power, but if anything it declined slower
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