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Thatcher dead 12:56 - Apr 8 with 81341 viewssix_foot_two

Skynews are are saying Magaret Thatcher has died of a stroke
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Thatcher dead on 14:05 - Apr 8 with 2186 viewsJuzzie

Thatcher dead on 13:52 - Apr 8 by Clive_Anderson

Someone the other day asked why do political arguments always come down to Thatcher. It's because that was when politics stopped being about a ideas and started being about personality.

Her opponents couldn't really argue about what she did, so they had to attack her personally instead. Hence all the made up crap you see about her, including some classics in this thread eg. She started the war in Argentina and was pals with Jimmy Savile.


Although the issue of sovereignty had been going on for decades or even longer, her government was stuttering and winning a war she knew she could win (lets face it, our army was no match) would be a win-win situation for her.

From Wikipedia "The conflict had a strong impact in both countries. Patriotic sentiment ran high in Argentina, but the outcome prompted large protests against the ruling military government, which hastened its downfall. In the United Kingdom, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's government was bolstered by the successful outcome."

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Thatcher dead on 14:06 - Apr 8 with 2177 viewssmegma

She HATED everyone on this messageboard as she hated ALL FOOTBALL FANS, or has everyone conveniently forgotten that fact. Her Miniature For Sport Colin Moynihan labelled English football fans 'the effluent society' in the run up to Italia 90 ( Ironic as the witch famously said 'theres no such thing as society, there are just people and families'). At Italia 90 , as English fans arrived in the country to watch a football tournament , the local carabinieri rounded up a total of 237 England fans. An odd number maybe, then they were put on a plane and sent home. This included families with children and even some people who had literally just got off a plane at the airport. The plane they were put on happened to have 237 seats, what a coincidence ? !! One fan is a QPR fan that a lot of people on here will know (Steve from Watford, runs a pub, or did). It was also revealed the plane had been ordered in advance of the WC90 with the permission of the British Govt.

I'll be labelled a commie now no doubt.
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Thatcher dead on 14:08 - Apr 8 with 2161 viewsMonahoop

Gone and not before time. I'll shed no tears for the arrogant monster that she was and her vile cronies associated with her. Now there will be loads of dreaded re runs of her condescending, patronising speeches on the TV and radio. Arrogant in death as well as in life!


There aint half been some clever bastards.

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Thatcher dead on 14:08 - Apr 8 with 2164 viewsstevec

Thatcher dead on 13:51 - Apr 8 by TacticalR

Oddly enough, I've been thinking about Thatcher over the last few days because her name seems to crop up here fairly regularly.

1) I can understand why people hate Thatcher, but I believe they do so for the wrong reasons. A lot of people hate her because they see her actions as arising from the sheer brutality of her personality. In fact the British establishment had already abandoned classical Keynesianism prior to Thatcher. Conservative Prime Minster Ted Heath had tried to put through 'Thatcherite' measures (without much success) in the early 1970s. Labour Prime Minister James Callaghan signalled the abandonment of Keynesianism in 1976:
'We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists.'

In other words, the actions of Thatcher, far from being dictated by individual psychology, were dictated by attempts to do whatever was necessary to revive British capitalism.

2) While Thatcher won all her battles and 'saw off' her opponents, it has become more obvious than ever that she lost the war: Thatcher completely failed in her primary goal of reviving British capitalism.


Nice to see a reasoned denouncement instead of the usual shallow vitriol coming from other detractors but can I ask this - who in your opinion was a better Prime Minister, lets say in the last 45-50 years ?
Wilson - Heath - Callaghan - Major - Blair - Brown - Cameron ?

3 Labour leaders who conspired to bankrupt the country (as does Labour every time it gets a sustained period of office). Heath who, unlike Thatcher, tried to fight the unions and failed, Major who allowed the left leaning Clarke to piss all over him, or Cameron who hasn't exactly set the world alight so far.

I suspect you don't have an answer to this, as there isn't one. Still, any takers?
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Thatcher dead on 14:09 - Apr 8 with 2151 viewsLOTR

Thatcher dead on 14:02 - Apr 8 by Gloucs_R

Lots of lefties on here today, not working lads?


Already finished for the day mate, helps being 7 hours ahead of you lads in Blighty.
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Thatcher dead on 14:10 - Apr 8 with 2108 viewsTHEBUSH

Thatcher dead on 14:02 - Apr 8 by Gloucs_R

Lots of lefties on here today, not working lads?


No, all lost our jobs coz of Thatchers far reaching policies
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Thatcher dead on 14:10 - Apr 8 with 2105 viewsRangersAreBack

The country was in the doldrums when she rocked up. Record inflation, high taxation, record levels of debt, economy controlled by the IMF, rubbish not being collected and strikes left, right and centre. She performed miracles under the circumstances.

My family managed to drag itself out of poverty thanks to hard work coupled with the opportunity to buy our council home and shares in the former state-owned businesses. Today my reward for hard work is to watch bone-idol people being gifted social housing in prime locations.

Manufacturing was creaking at the seams when she took office, thanks in part to damaging strikes (a la British Leyland). Again she answered the critics call by moving the country towards a new age. The City, in particular, became one of the most vibrant and successful financial centres in the world.

Ulitimately her rejection of consensus cost her but it's worth remembering that she was the first female Prime Minister in a male dominated world when the "equality" buzz word didn't exist.
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Thatcher dead on 14:11 - Apr 8 with 2095 viewsnadera78

Thatcher dead on 14:05 - Apr 8 by Clive_Anderson

Yep. The union thugs are no longer allowed to threaten and intimidate workers into doing what they want anymore thankfully.


No. Just the rich doing that to the rest of us now.
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Thatcher dead on 14:11 - Apr 8 with 2089 viewsClive_Anderson

Thatcher dead on 14:05 - Apr 8 by Juzzie

Although the issue of sovereignty had been going on for decades or even longer, her government was stuttering and winning a war she knew she could win (lets face it, our army was no match) would be a win-win situation for her.

From Wikipedia "The conflict had a strong impact in both countries. Patriotic sentiment ran high in Argentina, but the outcome prompted large protests against the ruling military government, which hastened its downfall. In the United Kingdom, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's government was bolstered by the successful outcome."



If she had turned her back on the people living on the Falklands Islands when they were invaded then the same people who hate her for winning the war would be complaining that she left them to fend for themselves.

In other words the incident (which wasn't her own making) would have been used as a stick to beat her with regardless of her actions.
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Thatcher dead on 14:12 - Apr 8 with 2089 viewssexton

Thatcher dead on 14:11 - Apr 8 by nadera78

No. Just the rich doing that to the rest of us now.


+1
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Thatcher dead on 14:12 - Apr 8 with 2086 viewsstowmarketrange

Thatcher dead on 14:05 - Apr 8 by Clive_Anderson

Yep. The union thugs are no longer allowed to threaten and intimidate workers into doing what they want anymore thankfully.


Now its the bosses that have that power like they always did.The classic line from any manager now to any genuine greivence at work is "if you don't like it,f--k off".
Some democracy.
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Thatcher dead on 14:13 - Apr 8 with 2074 viewsstowmarketrange

Thatcher dead on 14:05 - Apr 8 by Clive_Anderson

Yep. The union thugs are no longer allowed to threaten and intimidate workers into doing what they want anymore thankfully.


Now its the bosses that have that power like they always did.The classic line from any manager now to any genuine greivence at work is "if you don't like it,f--k off".
Some democracy.
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Thatcher dead on 14:14 - Apr 8 with 2068 viewsSudbury_Hill_R

Thatcher dead on 14:02 - Apr 8 by six_foot_two

I am surprised no one has mentioned the miners strike, the defeat of the NUM bought about the beginning of the end for union power in this country.


Yes. And totally decimated half my family and whole communities in South Yorkshire that to this day have never recovered.
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Thatcher dead on 14:15 - Apr 8 with 2046 viewsClive_Anderson

Thatcher dead on 14:13 - Apr 8 by stowmarketrange

Now its the bosses that have that power like they always did.The classic line from any manager now to any genuine greivence at work is "if you don't like it,f--k off".
Some democracy.


Well I don't really agree with your statement, but even if what you're saying is true I'd rather have a stroppy boss than a concrete block dropped on my head.
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Thatcher dead on 14:15 - Apr 8 with 2048 viewsLewes_r

Thatcher dead on 14:11 - Apr 8 by nadera78

No. Just the rich doing that to the rest of us now.



Poll: Who do we want down with us and Burnley?

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Thatcher dead on 14:15 - Apr 8 with 2046 viewsJuzzie

Thatcher dead on 14:11 - Apr 8 by Clive_Anderson

If she had turned her back on the people living on the Falklands Islands when they were invaded then the same people who hate her for winning the war would be complaining that she left them to fend for themselves.

In other words the incident (which wasn't her own making) would have been used as a stick to beat her with regardless of her actions.


Well, I do agree that it wasn't of her own making but could there have been another way of dealing with it other than going all "Saving Private Ryan"?

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Thatcher dead on 14:18 - Apr 8 with 2026 viewsClive_Anderson

Also worth pointing out that she eventually got thrown out of office because she refused to sign up to the Euro as she could see it would be a fiscal disaster.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100064330/margaret-thatcher-knew-t
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Thatcher dead on 14:18 - Apr 8 with 2028 viewsTHEBUSH

Thatcher dead on 14:15 - Apr 8 by Clive_Anderson

Well I don't really agree with your statement, but even if what you're saying is true I'd rather have a stroppy boss than a concrete block dropped on my head.


Bit OTT don't you think
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Thatcher dead on 14:19 - Apr 8 with 2020 viewsSomersetHoops

In my opinion, in her first two terms she did a lot of good redressing the balance between the government and unions, but after that she became too fundamentally right wing. We need a rule like they have in France where a premier can only serve two consecutive terms. The left wing hated her because she reduced their power to disrupt the country whenever they felt like it, but for me this is one of the good things she did.

A lot of the politically fundamental things she did like mass privatisations have atually resulted in in bad value for our country and its people at the expense of profits and overpaid jobs for the mostly foreign fat cats now running most of our utility industries. I can't think of many other countries allowing this and I feel sad that we have allowed it. If the new nuclear plants go ahead, they will be owned and operated by foreign companies and I think its a serious mistake to allow this in terms of the possibilty of accidents resulting from management without a commitment to our country. It also gives a company partly owned and controlled by a foreign government control over our power generation, which in my opinion should not be allowed.

All the privatisations give a short term gain to the exchequer while costing us all far more in the long run. The real problem is the short term strategy employed by governments not prepared to invest in the long term infrastructure of our country. As far as I can see this is the result of the dreadful group of politicians we have, none of whom see past short term vote winning and are not prepared to sell the idea of investing in our own country for the long term benefit of all.

Part of this was started under Thatcher, but none of her successors have had the guts or resources to put it right and some of the Labour leaders have made things far worse with massive PFI projects which we will all be paying over the odds for, for years to come.

Who's Next?

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Thatcher dead on 14:19 - Apr 8 with 2017 viewsstowmarketrange

Thatcher dead on 14:15 - Apr 8 by Clive_Anderson

Well I don't really agree with your statement, but even if what you're saying is true I'd rather have a stroppy boss than a concrete block dropped on my head.


So if were being unjustly treated at work and possibly victimised and bullied,who would you turn to for help?
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Thatcher dead on 14:21 - Apr 8 with 2006 viewsDWQPR

Thatcher dead on 14:02 - Apr 8 by six_foot_two

I am surprised no one has mentioned the miners strike, the defeat of the NUM bought about the beginning of the end for union power in this country.


And ironically the party she did the most favours to in stemming the power of the unions was the Labour Party, who could, without the unions strength could create 'New Labour'.

Poll: Where will Clive put QPR in his new season preview

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Thatcher dead on 14:23 - Apr 8 with 1992 viewshoopdog

Thatcher dead on 14:02 - Apr 8 by six_foot_two

I am surprised no one has mentioned the miners strike, the defeat of the NUM bought about the beginning of the end for union power in this country.


Yeah she did really well closing the kent mines down didnt she ! ,knowing the channel tunnel was going to creat millions of tons of spoil that had to be disposed of that could have gone by rail straight down the pits for a fraction of what the cost was to dispose of it came to , but never mind it was a good earner for the boys
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Thatcher dead on 14:24 - Apr 8 with 1983 viewsElHoop

Thatcher dead on 14:11 - Apr 8 by Clive_Anderson

If she had turned her back on the people living on the Falklands Islands when they were invaded then the same people who hate her for winning the war would be complaining that she left them to fend for themselves.

In other words the incident (which wasn't her own making) would have been used as a stick to beat her with regardless of her actions.


I think that the Falklands War was partly her fault as she sold off or withdrew the patrol boat or whatever it was that used to patrol that part of the world, just before it kicked off. It sent the wrong signal.

As for who was a better leader, we'd have probably have had better leaders if the 1970's themselves had been different. It really was a shit time for politics with the hard left and the IRA making life very unpleasant for all politicians. Thatcher was just a product of the times. Had it been different we might have had Whitelaw as Tory leader and David Owen as Labour leader. Maybe they would have been better than Thatcher and Blair. Owen was pretty obviously better than Kinnock and Foot. It would have been a different game anyway.

[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Thatcher dead on 14:24 - Apr 8 with 1979 viewsClive_Anderson

Thatcher dead on 14:15 - Apr 8 by Juzzie

Well, I do agree that it wasn't of her own making but could there have been another way of dealing with it other than going all "Saving Private Ryan"?



There was a way of getting the islands back without the use of military force? I really don't think so.

Actually one of the reasons that they won the war is that Thatcher bullied the French President at the time to hand over the codes to disable the French built exocet missiles they'd sold the Argentines. Can you imagine Cameron or Blair doing that?
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Thatcher dead on 14:27 - Apr 8 with 1952 viewsClive_Anderson

Thatcher dead on 14:23 - Apr 8 by hoopdog

Yeah she did really well closing the kent mines down didnt she ! ,knowing the channel tunnel was going to creat millions of tons of spoil that had to be disposed of that could have gone by rail straight down the pits for a fraction of what the cost was to dispose of it came to , but never mind it was a good earner for the boys


She closed the mines at a slower rate than the Labour government before or indeed the Labour government after.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7952388.stm

In fact the mining industry had been declining since its peak in 1913 and most of the job losses were during the 60s.
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