We don't need the hysteria here, we were simply beaten by the better team on the day. It happens! Nick was spot on with his comments. I think the team will be pleased to play most of their remaining games away from the negative atmosphere at St Marys now.

Much good sense from San Marco and Pint Sized as always so I will keep my comments to a minimum.

Apart from Hoedt's lapse in the first half (shades of "Apart from that Mrs Lincoln how was the opera?") I thought we played well and were still in the game. I remember us coming back from two nil down to win 3-2 against Liverpool a few years ago and though I didn't really think that was going to happen, there was at least a possibility of fightback.

That all changed with the very strange substitution of JWP (playing very well and our most creative outlet in the first period), the failure to bring off Lemina sooner (he was clearly struggling with an injury) and the weird introduction of Boufal, who as I have said before should be dismantled for spare parts and Davis who hasn't got the legs any longer to cope with a fast attacking side like Liverpool. The net effect was that we kept the same systems but substituted for worse players!

The manager may have had a plan but I'm blowed if I can see what it was.

We are well and truly in the relegation mire now, not because we didn't win yesterday (in truth no-one really expected us to at the outset) but because of the results around us. If we survive its going to be down to a true test of character on the pitch. One of the reasons I like to see Yoshi play is that his is the last head to go down when things get tough, and he is still urging the others onwards even when it looks hopeless.

We basically gave up in the second half yesterday, the Liverpool players knew it and so did the crowd, who couldn't even be bothered to boo VVD by the end. A sad afternoon, I would have expected better.

Much good sense from San Marco and Pint Sized as always so I will keep my comments to a minimum.

Apart from Hoedt's lapse in the first half (shades of "Apart from that Mrs Lincoln how was the opera?") I thought we played well and were still in the game. I remember us coming back from two nil down to win 3-2 against Liverpool a few years ago and though I didn't really think that was going to happen, there was at least a possibility of fightback.

That all changed with the very strange substitution of JWP (playing very well and our most creative outlet in the first period), the failure to bring off Lemina sooner (he was clearly struggling with an injury) and the weird introduction of Boufal, who as I have said before should be dismantled for spare parts and Davis who hasn't got the legs any longer to cope with a fast attacking side like Liverpool. The net effect was that we kept the same systems but substituted for worse players!

The manager may have had a plan but I'm blowed if I can see what it was.

We are well and truly in the relegation mire now, not because we didn't win yesterday (in truth no-one really expected us to at the outset) but because of the results around us. If we survive its going to be down to a true test of character on the pitch. One of the reasons I like to see Yoshi play is that his is the last head to go down when things get tough, and he is still urging the others onwards even when it looks hopeless.

We basically gave up in the second half yesterday, the Liverpool players knew it and so did the crowd, who couldn't even be bothered to boo VVD by the end. A sad afternoon, I would have expected better.

This game showed exactly why we are where we are..
1- Team selection includes 5 midfielders in a game which we need to take the attack to the opposition because their weakness is their defence, we are desperate for points, and as seen by watching the teams around us, the way to fight for survival is to have a go at teams live Liverpool. Instead, we were sent out with a negative, defensive mindset, thus playing to Liverpool’s strengths.
2- The players’ lack of confidence has come from the same over-cautious approach to each game over the past year and this becomes a habit.. Under Poch and Koeman we we’re attacking and the players were comfortable with this positive approach and mindset, since then the board have appointed 2 managers who do not particularly inspire the players and have negative, defensive blueprints. With so many changes to personnel in the side week after week, the players have gradually become lost and confused as to who is where on the pitch and the team can’t build cohesion and understanding. The board must take responsibility for these appointments which have ‘dampened the players enthusiasm ‘ on the pitch after 3 years of exciting, attacking football.
3- The majority of players do not seem to have pride in wearing the shirt as the likes of Franny and Le God did. The game against Liverpool should have been a case of ‘right, this team keeps stealing our best players, let’s go out there and stick it up then, get in to them and give them s tough gsme’ .. Instead, we rolled over and hugged and laughed with the selfish individual who spread poison through our club over the last 6 months. I found the reactions of our players towards VVD at the final whistle to be a kick in the teeth to all Saints fans after how he behaved. To me this looks like they are going through the motions, collecting their wages and not caring about next year because they can just move on.. I was appalled to see our players laugh and hug VVD and I don’t care if they are mates!
4- The lack of overall ambition the club has suddenly developed after, a couple of years ago, stating that we want to be the next club to try to grow and challenge the top 5 or 6 is confusing. Now we are a ‘small club’ again, according to Krueger, which contradicts the previous statement of intent. If I was a player at SFC, I might also feel a little disillusioned with what I had signed up to and the recent January transfer window confirmed our naive inability to organise the necessary improvement to the squad to have a chance of playing in the Prem next year, they had the money day 1, and, well, it was a disgrace to be honest with pathetic excuses..

This has indeed been a slow motion car crash most fans have seen happening for a while and yet the people responsible seem to be oblivious. Yesterday was a total shambles and it is the managers responsibility and no-one else’s to inspire, motivate and prepare the team to fight for everything. Instead, by his own admission, Pellegrino was unable to, even at half time, to instill any belief or confidence in the players and therefore he his currently the largest portion of our problem and he must be replaced immediately.. If not, we will not even have a hope of picking up the required points or even fighting for them. I would urge the board or Les Reed to act now before it’s too late and bring in Marco Silva, whatever the cost. You will see an instant change in our fortunes and have a chance of avoiding the drop.

Whether or not MP is any good on the training ground, or whether or not he picks the right team, or whether or not he plays people in or out of the right position, or whether or not he makes good substitutions, I think the one thing that everybody keeps forgetting is that any successful team/club needs luck. As Napolean said" I don't want good generals, I want lucky ones" and I'm afraid that MP SIMPLY IS NOT LUCKY and has to go for that reason alone.

I agree.

I agree with Nick!

I thought i might be cooled down after 24 hours, but have not, and will try to express my anger without typing line after line of foul language in caps.(No promises, though)

OK, going into it, it was doubtful Saints would win, maybe get a draw if lucky, but most likely would lose especially if MP used his usual Isolated Striker System. Fair enough.

However, I was utterly disgusted by three things:

1) Our Players: We have been here reading for months how VVD was a bad influence in the locker room. We were losing because he caused turmoil amongst his teammates who wanted to play for the badge and were angry at him just going through the motions on the field. We had to get rid of him, even to the Scouse just to stop the rot.

Did that look like that to you at the end of the game???? Them all hugging and glad-handing him because they had lost to his team. They were so happy he had escaped from this little shit club that they are stuck in. If they had any pride in playing for the Saints, they would have finished every tackle and fought for every ball.

Pintsized- they are not playing like a bunch of players who are afraid of relegation-they are playing and acting like a bunch of players who just don't give a shit.

2) Their Manager: The bullshit the Bearded Klamm pulled at the end of the game-fielding all 5 of our ex players to rub it in. That was the nastiest, childish, low-class move i have ever seen in a football match. And yet our players still shook hands with him afterwards.

Which brings me to......

3) Our Manager: Shaking hands after that? Do you think Fergie or Jose would have reacted like that? Pardew? He would have nutted him, and Keano would have left him bleeding on the ground.

You know, if the Skates did that, I would be fine with it and laugh it off since we would do the same to them to wind them up. We have our own private thing going where we give no quarter and expect no quarter and we don't play the victim.

But this was a move to just to publicly humiliate the Saints at home and on world-wide TV by a club that pretends to be one of the top class organisations in the sport but showed their true colors on Sunday.

Unfortunately, our players, manager, board and owner(s) have absolutely no pride in our team.

Yes Boondock - I thought Klopp confirmed himself as an immature disgrace. The only other manager I can think of who might have played that trick is actually Souness, also a Liverpool man.

Whatever we have read about VVD's influence on the dressing room could well be a convenient excuse for under-performing players, manager and Reed/Kreuger. Not one of our players even stood on VVD's foot, let alone delivered a bone-crushing tackle on the piece of sh1te.

Boondock, you do realize that all Les Reed's negative PR leaks about players before he sells them are not actually true, don't you? We got the same b@llocks about Fonte before he was sold. The negative influence at the club was not Van Dijk, it was Les Reed.

Absolutely, dirk_doone! The only time Reed talks to the press is to slag a player.

Maybe you are confusing me with Nick?..........

Below is a comment I made back in September 2017. You'll notice that Nick posted something very similar and since then it's got worse. The truth is we need change at this football club and that's definitely not going to happen under Mr Gao. We need to pray that something changes quickly because there's a very, very strong possibility we'll get relegated. I really hope I'm wrong. I want to be wrong because I love Southampton FC and all I want is for it is to be successful!

"Nick, I think it's incredibly arrogant of you to take this self-righteous stance of labelling other fans as negative. If you want the best for Southampton FC you wouldn't have posted this article. It's divisive and serves nothing in changing the mood of the fanbase.

Fundamentally people have the right to express their views and should not censor it to meet this blinded misguided form of "positivity".

I'll be positive about Southampton FC when Mr Black is sacked, Les Reed is sacked and Mr Gao hires a competent respected manager such as Tuchel, Benitez, Pelligrini or even Eddie Howe. We have too many deadwood players at the moment and they need to be sold. People in this club are too comfortable both on and off the pitch. There needs to be a real shake-up.

We also need to stop thinking about the past and focus on the present. We are a top 10 EPL football club and our owners needs to start supporting us in breaching the Top 6/7. At the moment the jury's out with Mr Gao.

The reason why fans feel so aggrieved with the club recently is because we've lost a combination of player and managerial talent over the past seasons without any clear reasons other than to line the owners pocket, and to make matters worse haven't adequately replaced them.

This lack of ambition seems to be similar to your posts Nick. Do you really want the best for Southampton FC or are you secretly cynical about the heights this club can reach?

If so make please make it clear to people on this forum and don't complain about managers like Claude Puel going forward if they're doing what's expected of them...MEDIOCRITY!"

Times have changed Nick, people have a voice through social media and they use it. Why should they remain silent? It's long past the time of the 'grin and bear it' generation which you seem to be part of.

Fans are stakeholders and have a right to make their concerns known and if they are still ignored by the club then they have a right to let the club know there is a price to be paid.

Your attempts as cheer leader are to be lauded but sometimes you must look at your own limitations rather than always assume the others are wrong.

I was only able to watch the second half on TV, but that was the most clueless, spiritless display I have seen for a very long time. If we had lost by five it wouldn’t have flattered Liverpool.
I am afraid the same boringly repetitious issues keep coming back. The problem is not whoever is unlucky enough to play as lone striker, it is playing a lone striker with the players we have around them. If we had two vibrant, pacy attacking midfielders bursting into the box it might work. But we don’t – we have two one-paced fancy Dans who want run round in circles near the corner flag and waft crosses in to no-one in particular, in the shape of Tadic & Boufal. They are both utterly ineffective most of the time, and especially in the system we play.
We have two good attacking fullbacks and a decent bank of midfielders – the problem is not these players, it is that we set up with an isolated centre-forward without the right sort of players to play around him.
I still think our dogmatic refusal to adapt and our relentless determination to keep playing Tadic (and Boufal) is the route of our problem. I don’t see us coming back from this – the players look broken because they keep doing what they are told and it keeps not working.

I was only able to watch the second half on TV, but that was the most clueless, spiritless display I have seen for a very long time. If we had lost by five it wouldn’t have flattered Liverpool.
I am afraid the same boringly repetitious issues keep coming back. The problem is not whoever is unlucky enough to play as lone striker, it is playing a lone striker with the players we have around them. If we had two vibrant, pacy attacking midfielders bursting into the box it might work. But we don’t – we have two one-paced fancy Dans who want run round in circles near the corner flag and waft crosses in to no-one in particular, in the shape of Tadic & Boufal. They are both utterly ineffective most of the time, and especially in the system we play.
We have two good attacking fullbacks and a decent bank of midfielders – the problem is not these players, it is that we set up with an isolated centre-forward without the right sort of players to play around him.
I still think our dogmatic refusal to adapt and our relentless determination to keep playing Tadic (and Boufal) is the route of our problem. I don’t see us coming back from this – the players look broken because they keep doing what they are told and it keeps not working.

I won't get into the fan/supporter debate because it's a complete side issue.
The main issue is that at the moment we have an attack that struggles to score, a defence that ships easy goals, and a complete lack of leadership on the pitch

Nick. How you have changed down the years, I can't believe that you seriously think that we will pull clear with everything staying the same as it is. I can assure you we will get the same old same old if we just go to games and keep our feelings to ourselves. The fans have been turning up week in week out and they get continually let down by sub standard performances. I will tell you something. The fans will respond to what they see in front of them. Do you honestly expect the fans to continually get behind the team and management when they continually watch the same dross??? There are big problems here Nick and you need to wake the F--- up! I think the fans will revolt despite your pleas for them not to. They pay good money to watch the club they love and they have every right to make their feelings known. .

YES - you're all right (more or less) but let's just be glad we didn't sign Sturridge!

And glad we sold Jayrod on tonight's showing...

Lots of good comments above and it's not a good time to be a saints fan at the moment. I'm surprised the odds on relegation are so low as anyone interested in football will see how underwhelming saints have been most of this season and the win column speaks for itself and regardless of performance winning is what counts. Unfortunately Pellegrino is welded to his way of playing, the board are seemingly at a loss of how to address the issue and the players are clearly caught up in the lack of leadership from all angles. Importantly with all this confusion and inertia it's not surprising the fans are pissed off as they are the ones that put in the emotional investment which cannot be measured in pounds and pence. Teams that cannot score and let in goals, particularly the soft goals we specialise in go down. On the bright side I enjoyed the championship and league 1and as long as I have a team to support I'll have to except what I can control.

How many times do we have to witness MP being unable to motivate / inspire a team? First ten mins were crucial for us and I just saw a bag of nerves. Tone of the game was set and result was thus enevitable.

That's it then were down. https://talksport.com/football/premier-league-201718-table-super-computer-predic

So we have lost to Liverpool who have just thrashed Porto 0-5. I think our performance in comparison to Portos was brilliant.

11 games left.
We need 2 home wins (most likely vs Stoke and Bournemouth
We need 2 away wins (most likely Swansea and West ham)

Can we win these 4, I think we stay up.
That said I am as pissed as anyone that we have played so many sh*t games.

We can win vs stoke, bournemouth, west ham and swansea and lose the rest - and stay up. We are not dead and buried yet..