| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT 09:48 - Mar 14 with 12099 views | pomanjou |
are possibly beginning to show even if there is still some lingering inconsistency in results.
Whats indisputable (or maybe on LFW they are) is the overall improvement in team performance and the overall improvement in almost all individual player performances.
Are there any players who are not now putting in a full shift for the whole time they are on the field? No.
Who has improved almost beyond recognition -Hoilett, Perch, Henry, Chery and Polter IMO. All players have improved to some degree. We haven't seen enough of Washington to form a judgement and I am a tad disappointed in Phillips but he has produced the goods in terms of goals and assists. These things are down to team management and coaching.
Would it be fair to say that Fernandes finally 'got it' in terms of putting a senior team together at director level who in turn have appointed a top twenty manager AND HIS TEAM on the way up, as opposed to a Arry boy patch it up looking for an easy finale to football management.
Discuss.
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| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 20:47 - Mar 15 with 2413 views | ozexile |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 17:43 - Mar 15 by Dorse |
ONE OF THE BASIC TENETS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT IS SHOUT, SHOUT AND SHOUT AGAIN.
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So true. I'm working with a coach at the moment who is just like that. Why do coaches feel there has to be a hidden threat to the players to motivate them? Bizarre behaviour. |  | | |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 10:05 - Mar 16 with 2307 views | GetMeRangers |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 15:36 - Mar 14 by paulparker |
if only we had a decent manager from the start of last pre season we may have been looking at the play offs or automatic
JFH is proving how bad a choice Ramsey was as our Head coach/Manager |
If we had been looking at the playoffs or promotion then the whole bandwagon of the past few years would have got going again. This squad would have needed some serious investment to stand any chance in the PL.. If appointing CR meant remaining in this division and avoiding relegation, while carrying the can for the transition, then it was a good appointment. At some point you might grudgingly accept that it isnt always, or even just, the managers fault at QPR. So much has gone wrong throughout the club and Les along with CR and Lee Hoos started the ball rolling in the right direction.
If JFH had been at the start of the season, it wouldn't have been any different, bar he would have been the one being ousted by maniac social media comments by TF and NW with his long knife
If promotion 'meant everything' to you this season, then you should be lamenting the replacement of NW. He would have delivered it, but with some of the most uninspiring, mind numbingly dull football this season. Sometimes, results dont mean everything... to some of us |  | | |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 10:24 - Mar 16 with 2284 views | paulparker |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 10:05 - Mar 16 by GetMeRangers |
If we had been looking at the playoffs or promotion then the whole bandwagon of the past few years would have got going again. This squad would have needed some serious investment to stand any chance in the PL.. If appointing CR meant remaining in this division and avoiding relegation, while carrying the can for the transition, then it was a good appointment. At some point you might grudgingly accept that it isnt always, or even just, the managers fault at QPR. So much has gone wrong throughout the club and Les along with CR and Lee Hoos started the ball rolling in the right direction.
If JFH had been at the start of the season, it wouldn't have been any different, bar he would have been the one being ousted by maniac social media comments by TF and NW with his long knife
If promotion 'meant everything' to you this season, then you should be lamenting the replacement of NW. He would have delivered it, but with some of the most uninspiring, mind numbingly dull football this season. Sometimes, results dont mean everything... to some of us |
I agree to a point in what you are saying ,
but NW came into help out a manager who was out of his depth and to help sort the defence out , lets not forget we were nearly shipping 3 goals a game under Ramsey , we had to get back to basics and in football that's clean sheets , its also a myth that we were some kind of cavalier kevin keegan esq footballing side under CR , plenty of mind numbing football under him |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 11:05 - Mar 16 with 2248 views | GetMeRangers |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 10:24 - Mar 16 by paulparker |
I agree to a point in what you are saying ,
but NW came into help out a manager who was out of his depth and to help sort the defence out , lets not forget we were nearly shipping 3 goals a game under Ramsey , we had to get back to basics and in football that's clean sheets , its also a myth that we were some kind of cavalier kevin keegan esq footballing side under CR , plenty of mind numbing football under him |
I agree it wasnt brilliant under CR, but as the defence tightened the entertainment level dropped. But NW... the accolade of best return of points for his short tenure coupled with the worst football of the season, yet again reinforcing TF's view that the team should be competing for promotion. Perhaps the most disappointing aspect of JFH appointment was Les coming out and saying that this was still the goal. Fortunately that stick hasn't been used to beat him and things appear to be progressing now... as well as becoming more entertaining
I crave some stability at the club more than promotions. With luck, we will have JFH for a good couple of years yet, during which time we will benefit from him gaining more experience in his fledgling managerial career | | | |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 11:48 - Mar 16 with 2212 views | whittocksRs |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 10:24 - Mar 16 by paulparker |
I agree to a point in what you are saying ,
but NW came into help out a manager who was out of his depth and to help sort the defence out , lets not forget we were nearly shipping 3 goals a game under Ramsey , we had to get back to basics and in football that's clean sheets , its also a myth that we were some kind of cavalier kevin keegan esq footballing side under CR , plenty of mind numbing football under him |
What people tend to ignore is Ramsey had already shored up the defence — only two goals conceded in the four games up to his sacking. The flip side was we stopped scoring. Ramsey wasn't brilliant, but he was nowhere near as bad as people make out. | | | |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 11:54 - Mar 16 with 2207 views | adhoc_qpr |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 10:05 - Mar 16 by GetMeRangers |
If we had been looking at the playoffs or promotion then the whole bandwagon of the past few years would have got going again. This squad would have needed some serious investment to stand any chance in the PL.. If appointing CR meant remaining in this division and avoiding relegation, while carrying the can for the transition, then it was a good appointment. At some point you might grudgingly accept that it isnt always, or even just, the managers fault at QPR. So much has gone wrong throughout the club and Les along with CR and Lee Hoos started the ball rolling in the right direction.
If JFH had been at the start of the season, it wouldn't have been any different, bar he would have been the one being ousted by maniac social media comments by TF and NW with his long knife
If promotion 'meant everything' to you this season, then you should be lamenting the replacement of NW. He would have delivered it, but with some of the most uninspiring, mind numbingly dull football this season. Sometimes, results dont mean everything... to some of us |
I agree with most of this, although i think CR was realistically in the red at the start of the season whereas JFH would have started with a blank slate so may not have been fired for the same results.
The whole point of this steady rebuilding approach for me is that the squad won't need a total overhaul should we be promoted next season or the season after.
The likes of Hall, Smithies, Chery, Washington, Luongo, Polter, Robinson etc should hopefully have proven themselves in the Championship and be looking to make the step up and be effective at the top level ala Drinkwater, Vardy, Morgan, Ighalo, Deeney etc etc.
With Les and Hoos attempting to sort out other long term issues and JFH seemingly getting through to the players - some cautious optimism is justified.
It certainly won't be smooth sailing though, because plenty of clubs are better run/way ahead of us and plenty of others will now be outspending us too - oh and there is the little matter of FFP fines and transfer embargoes just below the horizon... | | | |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 13:53 - Mar 16 with 2166 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Paul Parker would rather eat a live scorpion than give Ramsey any credit. |  | | |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 13:57 - Mar 16 with 2162 views | Northernr |
To go back to the OP, sat there last night at the most relaxed fans forum I think there's ever been and looked at the top table and couldn't shake the feeling we're in good hands. Fernandes et al just need to back right away and let them get on with it IMO.
Might be wrong, have been before. |  | | |
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| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 14:19 - Mar 16 with 2138 views | nix |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 11:54 - Mar 16 by adhoc_qpr |
I agree with most of this, although i think CR was realistically in the red at the start of the season whereas JFH would have started with a blank slate so may not have been fired for the same results.
The whole point of this steady rebuilding approach for me is that the squad won't need a total overhaul should we be promoted next season or the season after.
The likes of Hall, Smithies, Chery, Washington, Luongo, Polter, Robinson etc should hopefully have proven themselves in the Championship and be looking to make the step up and be effective at the top level ala Drinkwater, Vardy, Morgan, Ighalo, Deeney etc etc.
With Les and Hoos attempting to sort out other long term issues and JFH seemingly getting through to the players - some cautious optimism is justified.
It certainly won't be smooth sailing though, because plenty of clubs are better run/way ahead of us and plenty of others will now be outspending us too - oh and there is the little matter of FFP fines and transfer embargoes just below the horizon... |
Fantastic post. It's been ridiculous the wholesale changes we've been making every season. How a manager can mould together a team, hardly any of whom have played together, with no system, no shared philosophy, beats me. Especially given the rank pre-seasons we've had over the last few years.
We now seem to have the core of a squad who are likely to be here for a couple of seasons at least. The manager can see now where we are lacking. Rather than fire-fighting over the summer, or whackamole as Clive calls it, we should be able to go into next season just strengthening in a couple of areas.
I think it's more promising in terms of stability and potential than it's been for years. I only hope we won't have to take back Caulker, Sandro and Fer, which would be a backward step. |  | | |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 14:54 - Mar 16 with 2108 views | paulparker |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 13:53 - Mar 16 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Paul Parker would rather eat a live scorpion than give Ramsey any credit. |
we was on a roll Baz , we had agreed on 2 posts in the last week !!
but can anyone enlighten me though on what I should be giving Ramsey credit for ?
is it the 9 wins in 9 months
the emergence of youth in to the 1st team
the defensive shape & organisation
the free flowing attacking football
his match winning substitutions
our league cup run
he lost his job for a reason baz because he wasn't up to it , because he wasn't a manager and never will be , not because he was unlucky or that he laid the foundations
for a new QPR so a manager could take it to the next level
he could be a good coach, a brilliant bloke , etc but he goes down as one of the worst appointments we have made and that's a lot of competition | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 17:36 - Mar 16 with 2043 views | Ingham |
As long as they understand the implications of keeping a manager long term. The Club has never done anything of the kind since Alec Stock was ditched in 1968 after ten years
The problem we've never solved has its roots, I suspect, in the swallow Bazza has noticed.
Although we're all signed up to waiting for as long as it takes, are we behind the manager, come what may?
I don't mean our usual 'getting behind him'. Which is telling ourselves that he's the man, that he has what it takes, and - generally - that his short-term decisions signpost the way ahead in the long term.
That, I think, is where the tree gets poisoned. Already, he has only one way out.
Win. And that's my advice to him. He shouldn't imagine that anyone will back him through those long losing runs we're so familiar with, beyond the usual however many months before looking bad for so long has damaged his credibility beyond recovery.
Whatever manager it is, and whenever that manager turns up, I suspect that the ONLY way we'll ever get ANYWHERE is to start from scratch. Without deciding how good it will all turn out to be in advance, which is what we do every time, burying each and every manager under an expectation that HE is the one.
Why? The Club has never managed to get it right - in terms of long term consistency, in nearly 140 years. Even Gregory couldn't stabilise the Club at or near the top, or even in the same division, for very long.
Like a kid taking his first piano lesson, we have years and years of learning the game - from lesson one - ahead of us. And what bothers me is that we seem to lack any interest in failure. Already, it's looking good. Oh, sure, we're 'realistic' about it. But if we're doing less well than we are just now for the next five years, who will be right behind JFH?
We all know the answer to that. He'd be lucky to get five games of really bad results. And certainly, after five months, it would be the countdown to the exit.
Failure, that is where the lessons will be learned, because that is what we're good at. We can do that in our sleep. Turn even the good times into disaster in days, and certainly in a handful of years.
If he can begin to understand why things go wrong, not just because of the obvious deficiencies, but just when you think we're turning the famous corner we never seem to get all the way around, then we might be dangerous, because so few of the other useless f**ckers will make the effort, ANY kind of insight into why all the good intentions are sabotaged will go a long way.
But will we do what we usually do, and back off long before that. Stock was gone when he'd done well, Jago too, Holloway too, and Warnock too. Just not well enough.
We are so great, we can't tolerate even brief failure after brief success.
It won't be possible to change our ways, at least I don't think so, if we can't make EVERY performance and result of interest.
Otherwise, all we'll get is the usual escapism, and the usual way of perpetuating it. Sack the manager, and start dreaming that THIS guy is the one.
As we all know, when a manager doesn't need us - in those rare instances when he is doing well for a year or so - we're right behind him. It's true. Winning is the required magic. At those times, he can go anywhere, and we need him, or his results.
But as soon as it goes belly-up, he's dead in the water, and it is the optimists whose rejection kills off any possibility he has of surviving.
Because he looks bad. And because we don't have any OTHER way of judging whether we're on our way except winning.
That makes sense. But it will not give the guy time. That, I think, is why most of the managers I can think of who really had a big impact had that impact instantaneously.
We may get lucky. He may just get everything right right from the off. In the event he doesn't, what IS plan B to keep him at the Club indefinitely?
Can we go on watching the usual floundering for long enough for the coaching staff to identify why we flounder, and the Club to begin to FIND OUT - no successful manager has much to tell about how he works his magic - what remedies will actually WORK.
After all, detecting slight improvements is far more difficult and uncertain than detecting a guy who just wins and wins and wins. Yet so many successful managers are obsessed with losing. Defensive strategies to win games when things are NOT going your way are often the mark of a real winner, like Mourinho when he is not off his head, or George Graham, and all the other success stories before him.
Good luck, and prepare for the worst, JFH, and merely hope for the best. Forget the optimism, replace it with realism, we don't need to be optimistic, because everyone hopes for the best, and that is all that is necessary.
Great thread, pom. | | | |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 18:02 - Mar 16 with 2024 views | GetMeRangers |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 17:36 - Mar 16 by Ingham |
As long as they understand the implications of keeping a manager long term. The Club has never done anything of the kind since Alec Stock was ditched in 1968 after ten years
The problem we've never solved has its roots, I suspect, in the swallow Bazza has noticed.
Although we're all signed up to waiting for as long as it takes, are we behind the manager, come what may?
I don't mean our usual 'getting behind him'. Which is telling ourselves that he's the man, that he has what it takes, and - generally - that his short-term decisions signpost the way ahead in the long term.
That, I think, is where the tree gets poisoned. Already, he has only one way out.
Win. And that's my advice to him. He shouldn't imagine that anyone will back him through those long losing runs we're so familiar with, beyond the usual however many months before looking bad for so long has damaged his credibility beyond recovery.
Whatever manager it is, and whenever that manager turns up, I suspect that the ONLY way we'll ever get ANYWHERE is to start from scratch. Without deciding how good it will all turn out to be in advance, which is what we do every time, burying each and every manager under an expectation that HE is the one.
Why? The Club has never managed to get it right - in terms of long term consistency, in nearly 140 years. Even Gregory couldn't stabilise the Club at or near the top, or even in the same division, for very long.
Like a kid taking his first piano lesson, we have years and years of learning the game - from lesson one - ahead of us. And what bothers me is that we seem to lack any interest in failure. Already, it's looking good. Oh, sure, we're 'realistic' about it. But if we're doing less well than we are just now for the next five years, who will be right behind JFH?
We all know the answer to that. He'd be lucky to get five games of really bad results. And certainly, after five months, it would be the countdown to the exit.
Failure, that is where the lessons will be learned, because that is what we're good at. We can do that in our sleep. Turn even the good times into disaster in days, and certainly in a handful of years.
If he can begin to understand why things go wrong, not just because of the obvious deficiencies, but just when you think we're turning the famous corner we never seem to get all the way around, then we might be dangerous, because so few of the other useless f**ckers will make the effort, ANY kind of insight into why all the good intentions are sabotaged will go a long way.
But will we do what we usually do, and back off long before that. Stock was gone when he'd done well, Jago too, Holloway too, and Warnock too. Just not well enough.
We are so great, we can't tolerate even brief failure after brief success.
It won't be possible to change our ways, at least I don't think so, if we can't make EVERY performance and result of interest.
Otherwise, all we'll get is the usual escapism, and the usual way of perpetuating it. Sack the manager, and start dreaming that THIS guy is the one.
As we all know, when a manager doesn't need us - in those rare instances when he is doing well for a year or so - we're right behind him. It's true. Winning is the required magic. At those times, he can go anywhere, and we need him, or his results.
But as soon as it goes belly-up, he's dead in the water, and it is the optimists whose rejection kills off any possibility he has of surviving.
Because he looks bad. And because we don't have any OTHER way of judging whether we're on our way except winning.
That makes sense. But it will not give the guy time. That, I think, is why most of the managers I can think of who really had a big impact had that impact instantaneously.
We may get lucky. He may just get everything right right from the off. In the event he doesn't, what IS plan B to keep him at the Club indefinitely?
Can we go on watching the usual floundering for long enough for the coaching staff to identify why we flounder, and the Club to begin to FIND OUT - no successful manager has much to tell about how he works his magic - what remedies will actually WORK.
After all, detecting slight improvements is far more difficult and uncertain than detecting a guy who just wins and wins and wins. Yet so many successful managers are obsessed with losing. Defensive strategies to win games when things are NOT going your way are often the mark of a real winner, like Mourinho when he is not off his head, or George Graham, and all the other success stories before him.
Good luck, and prepare for the worst, JFH, and merely hope for the best. Forget the optimism, replace it with realism, we don't need to be optimistic, because everyone hopes for the best, and that is all that is necessary.
Great thread, pom. |
I think you should scrap the collective 'we'. While there maybe many fans that agree with the board's decisions, it invariably is their decisions that decide the longevity of a manager
While I dont want to get into the rights or wrongs about CR being replaced (it was actually the manner, of which, that disappointed me most), it seems clear to me that the Board had decided, or more aptly TF that he should go. On JFH appointment, Les made a point of saying that should consolidation be the goal then CR would never have been removed.
Apart from the awful period when NW was in charge (yes, I know, we got the results), in hindsight JFH has been a positive and wise move. As Clive has alluded to, there must be many of us who would quite like the board to take a very backward step and give this new structure time to find its feet and see what may come of it.
Much that I am enjoying the football at the moment, I am not sure I can see the squad as it is at the moment being able to compete in the PL, though I suspect we will have a good season next year. Will the board be able to hold its nerve if we have a reasonably successful season next year? Or change again | | | |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 18:23 - Mar 16 with 1993 views | terryb |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 13:57 - Mar 16 by Northernr |
To go back to the OP, sat there last night at the most relaxed fans forum I think there's ever been and looked at the top table and couldn't shake the feeling we're in good hands. Fernandes et al just need to back right away and let them get on with it IMO.
Might be wrong, have been before. |
Great to read that Clive.
My obnly oncern with how we are progressing is that our expectations for next season may be too high! I'm very happy to sit back & let JFH didtate who he wants to retain & who to sign.
I know it would be impossible to get them all right, but I trust him exceed a 50% sucess rate. | | | |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 20:34 - Mar 16 with 1951 views | derbyhoop |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 14:54 - Mar 16 by paulparker |
we was on a roll Baz , we had agreed on 2 posts in the last week !!
but can anyone enlighten me though on what I should be giving Ramsey credit for ?
is it the 9 wins in 9 months
the emergence of youth in to the 1st team
the defensive shape & organisation
the free flowing attacking football
his match winning substitutions
our league cup run
he lost his job for a reason baz because he wasn't up to it , because he wasn't a manager and never will be , not because he was unlucky or that he laid the foundations
for a new QPR so a manager could take it to the next level
he could be a good coach, a brilliant bloke , etc but he goes down as one of the worst appointments we have made and that's a lot of competition |
Give it a rest, PP. We get it. But it's history, now. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 21:08 - Mar 16 with 1930 views | wombat |
| THE EFFECTS OF GOOD MANAGEMENT on 20:34 - Mar 16 by derbyhoop |
Give it a rest, PP. We get it. But it's history, now. |
Agree with Clive about the forum last night Lee hoos comes over very well and he's the sort of appt TF should have made in his early days at the club when he took the club over . Don't think we would have made anywhere near as many mistakes off and one the pitch as we have done .
The future is defiantly looking bright that's for sure |  |
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