| Republic or Monarchy 10:27 - Apr 10 with 15583 views | QPR_John |
Reading the Prince Philip thread and some suggesting a republic set me thinking. I was going to post this on that thread but decided to open a new one. I'm interested in the reasons of those that want a republic. Do they also want to get rid of the title "Head of State". If so then leave it to the Prime Minister and you have an argument. If we do carry on the HoS how is he or she appointed. Just nominated by someone or some group or elected. Lets forget the former. If elected surely they would want some power which then sifts how we are governed. When would they be elected, at a General Election or a fixed term. If no political power who would vote even the General Election gets poor turn outs. Where would they live, Buckingham Palace or some two up two down in Railway Cuttings. How much would the office cost more or less than the monarchy. Do people who want a republic just want it because they do not like the idea of a monarchy or have they given it more thought |  | | |  |
| Republic or Monarchy on 20:53 - Apr 11 with 1950 views | CiderwithRsie |
My two pennorth is much like Kropotkin, I don't think it makes a lot of difference and in fact I think the republican idea is a distraction from the real barriers to both democracy and a fair society (which are two completely different things btw).
If I thought getting rid of the monarchy would make a toss of difference to who owns, controls and runs the country I'd probably be a republican, but it won't so I'd keep the tradition ('cos once it's got into the big yellow taxi it's gone, and you don't know what you'll miss until then) but at about 10% of the cost, and a lot fewer members. I think in Spain it's just the King and Queen + their children (and the king's parents because they retired) - everyone else is the family of the king but not the royal family.
On the other hand if anyone's getting together a mob to drag Rupert Murdoch off to the guillotine, well let's just say I've got my own pitchfork. | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 21:01 - Apr 11 with 1917 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Republic or Monarchy on 20:39 - Apr 11 by Ranger_Things |
Let's call it like it is; Andrew is a nonce and if he wasn't a royal he'd be banged up in the US like Ghislaine Maxwell. |
Don't really disagree but doesn't address my point at all.
As he's only 8th in line he ain't getting to be King any more than any of the thousands of other nonces out there. I'm just saying that if he was going to be King chances are he'd not have been allowed to be a nonce and might not even have wanted to be one.
As it is I'm all for him facing trial like anyone else. (Would be nice if we could swap him for that US diplomat who killed the kid while driving, everyone's happy except the guilty.)
PS happy to amend any of the language in this if Clive feels it is needed after a word with his lawyers. [Post edited 11 Apr 2021 21:02]
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| Republic or Monarchy on 21:06 - Apr 11 with 1900 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Republic or Monarchy on 21:01 - Apr 11 by CiderwithRsie |
Don't really disagree but doesn't address my point at all.
As he's only 8th in line he ain't getting to be King any more than any of the thousands of other nonces out there. I'm just saying that if he was going to be King chances are he'd not have been allowed to be a nonce and might not even have wanted to be one.
As it is I'm all for him facing trial like anyone else. (Would be nice if we could swap him for that US diplomat who killed the kid while driving, everyone's happy except the guilty.)
PS happy to amend any of the language in this if Clive feels it is needed after a word with his lawyers. [Post edited 11 Apr 2021 21:02]
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Is there that much control by the Family over individual members.
After all, had Edward VIII not abdicated for personal reasons then Britain's unelected Head of State during WW2 would have been a Nazi sympathiser who believed that his views were the views of State. |  |
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| Republic or Monarchy on 21:13 - Apr 11 with 1880 views | Ranger_Things |
| Republic or Monarchy on 21:01 - Apr 11 by CiderwithRsie |
Don't really disagree but doesn't address my point at all.
As he's only 8th in line he ain't getting to be King any more than any of the thousands of other nonces out there. I'm just saying that if he was going to be King chances are he'd not have been allowed to be a nonce and might not even have wanted to be one.
As it is I'm all for him facing trial like anyone else. (Would be nice if we could swap him for that US diplomat who killed the kid while driving, everyone's happy except the guilty.)
PS happy to amend any of the language in this if Clive feels it is needed after a word with his lawyers. [Post edited 11 Apr 2021 21:02]
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There have been rumours about him for years but the only thing we know for sure is that the FBI have been denied access to him because our royals are above the law. |  | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 21:27 - Apr 11 with 1827 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Republic or Monarchy on 21:06 - Apr 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
Is there that much control by the Family over individual members.
After all, had Edward VIII not abdicated for personal reasons then Britain's unelected Head of State during WW2 would have been a Nazi sympathiser who believed that his views were the views of State. |
Not pretending to be an expert but the thing with Edward VIII is that his Nazi views weren't exceptional in the British establishment then so no-one was going to "control" that. Whereas his love for Wallis Simpson was something the establishment could and did control - he abdicated because he had no choice, he'd have married her and been King if either of them had had their way. So yeah, I think there's quite a lot of control over the individual who's going to be king, not so much over the spares who are just, well, spares.
Once war broke out Churchill threatened to court martial him if he didn't come home where the govt could keep an eye on him and they shipped him out to the Bahamas more or less in exile, it was luxury arrest really. | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 21:41 - Apr 11 with 1808 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Republic or Monarchy on 21:27 - Apr 11 by CiderwithRsie |
Not pretending to be an expert but the thing with Edward VIII is that his Nazi views weren't exceptional in the British establishment then so no-one was going to "control" that. Whereas his love for Wallis Simpson was something the establishment could and did control - he abdicated because he had no choice, he'd have married her and been King if either of them had had their way. So yeah, I think there's quite a lot of control over the individual who's going to be king, not so much over the spares who are just, well, spares.
Once war broke out Churchill threatened to court martial him if he didn't come home where the govt could keep an eye on him and they shipped him out to the Bahamas more or less in exile, it was luxury arrest really. |
I think I might get that book that GloryHunter recommended.
Good post and I take your point, I just seem to remember that his Nazi sympathies were more overt than those of many of the Windsors and Peers and that George VI was more measured in both his sympathies and in his views on his powers as Head of State.
But, yes, he was forced out I suppose. | |
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| Republic or Monarchy on 21:47 - Apr 11 with 1795 views | GloryHunter |
| Republic or Monarchy on 20:23 - Apr 11 by CiderwithRsie |
This is a fair point so far as it goes, but if Andrew had been Number 1 Son do you think he'd have been allowed to roam around hanging out with low-lifes like Epstein?
Chazza having an affair while in an (arranged) marriage was just traditional royal behaviour (though not sure the present generation would get away with it, that's part of the bargain of being allowed to marry who they want instead of certified virgins); but I think even back then under-age girls would have been spotted as a crisis waiting to happen.
He'd have still been what he is, that's his nature, but I think he'd have been controlled and had more of a purpose and that just maybe might made him a better human being. |
". . . not sure the present generation would get away with it, that's part of the bargain of being allowed to marry who they want instead of certified virgins"
William is rumoured to have been getting away with it. Google "Marchioness of Cholmondeley". [Post edited 11 Apr 2021 21:53]
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| Republic or Monarchy on 22:09 - Apr 11 with 1752 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Republic or Monarchy on 21:47 - Apr 11 by GloryHunter |
". . . not sure the present generation would get away with it, that's part of the bargain of being allowed to marry who they want instead of certified virgins"
William is rumoured to have been getting away with it. Google "Marchioness of Cholmondeley". [Post edited 11 Apr 2021 21:53]
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You know what, I'm not sure I can be arsed, I'm not actually that fussed about the royals as I've said already.
But I will concede that seriously being asked to google someone (or something - sounds like a pub, a racehorse, a ship or maybe a rare breed of poultry) called the Marchioness of Cholmondely in connection with certified virgins and the royal family is probably a pretty good argument for republicanism and abolition of the House of Lords while we're it. WTAF springs to mind. | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 23:50 - Apr 11 with 1652 views | PunteR |
So? so fking what. Full kit w@nk@. Just peddling shite. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Republic or Monarchy on 23:53 - Apr 11 with 1648 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Republic or Monarchy on 23:50 - Apr 11 by PunteR |
So? so fking what. Full kit w@nk@. Just peddling shite. |
Totally normal response. Welcome back. |  | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 00:08 - Apr 12 with 1636 views | PunteR |
| Republic or Monarchy on 23:53 - Apr 11 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Totally normal response. Welcome back. |
Havnt gone anywhere just not posted or reacted to your usual weasel political agenda but having been reading the forum for the last couple of days i could see you getting above yourself again. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Republic or Monarchy on 00:20 - Apr 12 with 1626 views | Rangersw12 |
Maybe because 20 years ago you didn't have little divs on the Internet complaining about everything | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 00:33 - Apr 12 with 1599 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Republic or Monarchy on 00:08 - Apr 12 by PunteR |
Havnt gone anywhere just not posted or reacted to your usual weasel political agenda but having been reading the forum for the last couple of days i could see you getting above yourself again. |
I’d stick to the DJing and leave the political analysis to someone else.
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| Republic or Monarchy on 00:36 - Apr 12 with 1589 views | PunteR |
| Republic or Monarchy on 00:33 - Apr 12 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I’d stick to the DJing and leave the political analysis to someone else.
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Totally normal response.
So you calling me a paedophile? | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Republic or Monarchy on 00:40 - Apr 12 with 1585 views | PunteR |
And Danny the fking R can do one too the prick. Down voting like a teenage girl. lol | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Republic or Monarchy on 00:43 - Apr 12 with 1578 views | DannytheR |
| Republic or Monarchy on 00:40 - Apr 12 by PunteR |
And Danny the fking R can do one too the prick. Down voting like a teenage girl. lol |
You seem a bit ill. Might be an idea to take another break. |  | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 00:47 - Apr 12 with 1567 views | PunteR |
| Republic or Monarchy on 00:43 - Apr 12 by DannytheR |
You seem a bit ill. Might be an idea to take another break. |
im fine thanks. Any reason why you seem to want to get involved? | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Republic or Monarchy on 09:21 - Apr 12 with 1419 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Republic or Monarchy on 00:33 - Apr 12 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I’d stick to the DJing and leave the political analysis to someone else.
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Hmm, listening to Punter playing music or reading your sanctimonious garbage. That is a real tough decision. |  | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 09:30 - Apr 12 with 1406 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Republic or Monarchy on 09:21 - Apr 12 by CroydonCaptJack |
Hmm, listening to Punter playing music or reading your sanctimonious garbage. That is a real tough decision. |
Bit late to the party mate, don’t know why you need to restart it again. I’m sure Punter’s hangover has already kicked in by now.
Sanctimonious or not what he said was totally unprovoked. If Punter doesn’t like what I said he should take it up with the BBC not get stroppy with me after a few lines and a couple of cans.
Happy to leave it there if everyone else is otherwise let Clive sort it out. [Post edited 12 Apr 2021 10:03]
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| Republic or Monarchy on 12:14 - Apr 12 with 1307 views | QPR_John |
| Republic or Monarchy on 21:13 - Apr 11 by Ranger_Things |
There have been rumours about him for years but the only thing we know for sure is that the FBI have been denied access to him because our royals are above the law. |
As the Americans have denied us access to the US diplomats wife who killed Harry Dunn while driving | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 14:07 - Apr 12 with 1192 views | londonscottish |
| Republic or Monarchy on 13:14 - Apr 10 by distortR |
The op was thoughtful, I'm not a fan of the monarchy but to many they have already seemingly been replaced by 'celebs' - talk about banality being news worthy.
We killed god and replaced him with money.
We seem to be killing nation and replacing with self.
I see a pattern of things I may not be keen on being removed and replaced, but not for the better. We live in a time of illusion and quick thrills constantly moving on. I'm not sure we're in a place as a society where we are prepared to have a prolonged and intelligent debate about where we go from here - instead we put 10p on a plastic bag and continue regardless. Politics, particularly by people in opposition, increasingly seems to be about single issues, no-one has the time or energy or perhaps the know-how to join the dots. I include myself in this, too many times my politics has been from the lyric sheet (Spot the NMA line, lytham!)
I was in Australia when they had a referendum on the monarchy - they voted to continue with it, anecdotally a major reason was the fear that what you replace it with, might be worse, as the op said. I've wrestled with that ever since, and have never really come to an answer.
One more thing - in the wonderful book 'sapiens', the author puts a major part of humanities ability to succeed, to act collectively and maintain bonds, as our ability to create gods/flags/a common cause. what happens if we do away with all that? |
Good post, mate. Funny that you should mention the book Sapiens. That's next on my reading list.
Pretty much agree with everything you say.
I'm fairly ambivalent about the whole hoohah but understand that societies tend to need/want this sort of thing and, so if you had a republic, who would you end up with as the figurehead? Noel Edmunds? Piers Morgan? Someone who's won CBB or that jungle thing?
In this household no-one's particularly bothered about Saturday. Can't say I've ever watched a royal event on TV, can't say I'm bothered that other people want to.
I'm irritated that the football's been moved, though. Why? It's not as if anyone I know will want to watch both. |  |
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| Republic or Monarchy on 15:12 - Apr 12 with 1140 views | colinallcars |
| Republic or Monarchy on 14:07 - Apr 12 by londonscottish |
Good post, mate. Funny that you should mention the book Sapiens. That's next on my reading list.
Pretty much agree with everything you say.
I'm fairly ambivalent about the whole hoohah but understand that societies tend to need/want this sort of thing and, so if you had a republic, who would you end up with as the figurehead? Noel Edmunds? Piers Morgan? Someone who's won CBB or that jungle thing?
In this household no-one's particularly bothered about Saturday. Can't say I've ever watched a royal event on TV, can't say I'm bothered that other people want to.
I'm irritated that the football's been moved, though. Why? It's not as if anyone I know will want to watch both. |
The football hasn't been moved so that people can watch both the funeral and the match, it's because it would be considered disrespectful to play whilst the funeral of the Queen's husband is taking place.
Whatever people's views on the monarchy may be, the royals are by and large popular so we should respect that situation.
I'm not a great royalist myself but I'm perfectly happy to let people mark the event in whichever manner they choose. |  | | |
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