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A few months ago, I suggested on a QPR Report thread that we campaign to have a stand in any new stadium named after our most successful manager, Alec Stock. Now that the stadium is a real prospect, I wonder if others agree and would like to help make it happen.
As recently reported ( http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/oct/30/forgotten-story-alec-stock-qpr after winning the League Cup and leading Rangers from the Third to the old First Division, Stock was sacked by Jim Gregory following illness, and generally treated very shabbily thereafter- an episode which brings shame on the club. As he is no longer with us, I suggested that, though the modest gesture of naming a stand in his honour might be considered "too little, too late", it still might be appreciated by his family. His daughter immediately wrote that she loved the idea. So how about it?
Of course fans might like other names (Bowles, Marsh...er...Bosingwa?), but I expect most would agree that Alec Stock has a very good claim. He seems to have been a fine and lovely man,too, which matters to me, at least. Obviously other stands could be named,too. And whilst we all appreciate that wealthy men like Gregory or Fernandes are essential to our success, I suspect that most of us would rather celebrate men who have contributed as managers or players.
One thing I like about the Emirates Stadium (which doesn`t include the repulsive name, obviously) is how the history of Arsenal is celebrated all around the outside of the ground, with photographs and interesting quotes from former players, officials and fans. Obviously we do not have such a glorious history ourselves, but we have our own heroes and memories which it would be great to see reflected around the new stadium. Moving away from the Bush, I feel that any effort to generate a sense of history becomes more significant, especially if we are trying to attract an entirely new fanbase. Older fans would appreciate links with their past being honoured in our flash new home, and new fans could be educated to help them develop a real sense of belonging. Without a sense of history, what will QPR be but another shiny but soulless 21st century brand in a gleaming Westfield style commercial theme park. "This IS the Air Asia Arena. We Are New QPR, sponsored by Air Asia.com."
If anyone else likes the idea of an Alec Stock Stand and has any ideas for how to bring it about (who to write to,etc), please tell me, or just do it! I am not on Twitter, but I guess someone could write to TF on that, for a start. I feel that the new stadium could be brilliant- or a total disaster; Fernandes seems like a man who might listen to his "customers", so it is up to us to get as involved as we can. Like many others, I would prefer a smaller, 30 000 capacity to start off with, but I guess he has a business plan based on a filling a larger stadium. There is no harm in us expressing our fear of sitting in a mostly empty stadium, though; it is a glum thought,and perhaps older fans with memories of our brief time at White City in the 60s might make the point best.
[Post edited 15 Dec 2013 17:05]
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The Alec Stock Stand on 13:17 - Dec 15 with 2656 views
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
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The Alec Stock Stand on 13:28 - Dec 15 with 2633 views
Count me in Hadders. The thing about Sir Alec was his reputation didn't get tarnished by later outbursts or dubious deportment,unlike some legendary players I could mention. As for souless,the White City definitely had an atmos even with around 5k there.It's people who define an atmosphere the surroundings are secondary imo.R's fans could liven up the Grand Canyon.
Don't disagree with the sentiments but I think this thread is a couple of years too early. By the time it comes to naming stands Harry may have led us to Premier League glory in which case he'd be a candidate himself for immortalisation.
The Alec Stock Stand on 13:17 - Dec 15 by 18StoneOfHoop
His finest hour and a half:
Alec Stock needs to be recognised for services to Football in general but as a Player, Manager and Director QPR need to set in stone his value to the Club in particular. The partnership which did not end well of Gregory, Phillips and Gregory transformed this Club. Of Course, either the New Stadium should remember him but there's no reason why the training ground couldn't reflect our debt to this loyal man. I just watched Blob's vid and the game sums up so much that attracted me to Football, International Goalkeeper brothers winning Cups at Wembley, 38 year old centre half playing against International forwards and winning, Roger Morgan heading a goal (let alone one so important) crashing tackles of full back against winger and the battle goes on for two hours, players playing with smiles on their faces, Rodney Marsh crying, Mark Lazarus ( legend with the fans and a reminder we should never be far from the action) It created so much of the romance that seems lost to the game but sometimes can be spotted on rare occasions of humility and good behaviour in the modern game. QPR's share of the ticket income £18000 puts Wayne Rooneys wage into perspective when you see him shout Fxck You into the SKY camera's....
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The Alec Stock Stand on 15:17 - Dec 15 with 2492 views
Ron Manager from the Fast Show (jumpers for goalposts, association football etc) was loosely modelled on Alec Stock. Maybe Paul Whitehouse should open the stand in Ron Manager persona ?
The Alec Stock Stand on 13:32 - Dec 15 by HollowayRanger
i think we should make the very most of this new stadium for the fans it should be knon as the new loft or old oak stadium
but its main name will be sponsered ie air asia or the like
four main stands named after managers from the likes of stock sexton venables francis holloway warnock fans vote to decide
then tiers named after players
and bars / suites ect named after those not already used
the sstadium probably wont be 4 seperate stands so as suggested instead of blocks ABC etc call the blocks after qpr legends, that way we can get more recognition for our heroes
The forgotten story of … Alec Stock The tale of the QPR manager who took the club to two promotions and what remains their only major trophy, before he was sacked and left out in the cold
"It is possible that before you finish this book another manager of a football league club will be sacked. A lot of people will shake their heads knowingly and the fact will be dutifully reported in the newspapers, but unless the manager's name is a household word, nobody will get very excited. Why should they? One does not get excited because night follows day, and failure in league football is followed by the manager's head with the same unfailing regularity … This may be harsh, it may be sad and to many managers it is certainly frightening, but it is also inevitable. Managers need success like other men need food and drink, but regrettably not all 92 of them can win something every season."
So begins Football Club Manager, Alec Stock's brilliantly readable treatise on life in the hotseat. It was a dispassionate assessment of his trade by a man who, when the book came out, had been in management for 21 years without getting the sack. If success was indeed to managers what food and drink was to other men he was in the middle of a feast of truly epic proportions, but within a year, the taste of dessert still on his lips, he was to be at the receiving end of possibly the harshest booting-out in the history of British football.
Having played a bit for QPR before the second world war Stock first came to the football world's attention when, as player-manager, he guided Yeovil, then of the Southern League, to the fifth round of the FA Cup in 1949, beating Bury when they were first in the Second Division and Sunderland when they were second in the First — when Stock himself, never the most accomplished player and hampered by shrapnel lodged in his leg and buttock after his wartime service in the tank corps, scored a stunning and entirely atypical left-foot volley from the edge of the area.
His burnished reputation survived an 8-0 drubbing at Old Trafford in round five, and he soon moved to Leyton Orient, where he returned after brief dalliances with Arsenal (53 days as assistant and heir apparent to Tom Whittaker, before he was asked to spend a Saturday watching Aldershot's reserves rather than Arsenal's first-team and he left) and Roma (11 matches, only one of them lost, before the directors told him who to put in the team and he left) and whom he led to promotion in 1956. Two years after that he joined QPR.
Though Stock initially did reasonably well, the club's accounts did not and the board was soon left with no choice but to urgently seek investment. In 1965, Jim Gregory arrived as chairman, and changed the club for ever. Having started as a market fishmonger the brash, abrasive Gregory had graduated to selling used cars, then new cars, then garages, and then entire chains of garages. He was a man accustomed to success, determined to savour more of it at Loftus Road and prepared to dip into his own pocket to guarantee it.
"Jim was a very difficult man to work with," Ron Phillips, QPR's secretary between 1966 and 1989, tells me. "He wasn't like Alec at all. Alec's nickname was 'the first gentleman of soccer'. He was a very nice man and a gentleman in every way. Jim Gregory was precisely the opposite. He was a terribly impatient man, and wanted success immediately."
Fortunately, he got it. His first full season ended with the club third, one place if eight points from promotion. Towards the end of it he funded the signing of Rodney Marsh from Fulham for £15,000 — Stock repeatedly plundered Fulham's reserves, later finding Malcolm Macdonald from the same source. "It is no secret that I have always preferred London players," he wrote. "I know and trust them and feel happiest working with them". Marsh, a brilliant young forward, scored 44 times in all the following season, which ended with QPR winning the Third Division title by 13 points (and this in the days of two points for a win). They also reached the League Cup final, which for the first time that year was played at Wembley, and came back from a 2-0 half-time deficit against First Division West Bromwich Albion to become the first third-tier side to win there. The trophy was kept in a bank vault, because QPR didn't possess a trophy cabinet. They had never really needed one.
Winning back-to-back promotions to storm into the top flight is a rare feat today, but back then it simply was not done. Only one team had achieved it before, and that was more than 30 years earlier. But QPR won five of their first six games and were never out of the top two, though the prize was very nearly plucked from their grasp at the death. Blackpool were level with them on the final day after a six-game winning run, and their players celebrated on the pitch as they extended it to seven while Rangers were only drawing at Aston Villa. Meanwhile, at Villa Park, a late own-goal gifted QPR a 2-1 victory and promotion on goal average. "Everyone in the dressing-room afterwards was shattered," Stock said. "I was a wreck, drained of everything except happiness."
It was his last match as QPR manager. What Stock had achieved — taking a club that had spent all but four seasons of their history in or below the Third Division to two promotions and what remains their only major trophy — ranks alongside the greatest achievements in lower-division football management, but Gregory was already attempting to manoeuvre him out of the club. Over the summer he tried to prompt a resignation, criticising his every move and briefing the press that Stock was to be stripped of control over first-team affairs and assume the title general manager.
"Jim felt Alec couldn't bring any more successes and he really wanted him out," Phillips tells me. "He started making his life very difficult." In his unpublished memoir, Phillips recalls "constant complaints about the way the team were playing and nonstop criticism of Alec's administrative decisions". And just as Gregory sought an excuse to banish Stock, fate gave him one.
Three days after the 1967 League Cup final QPR beat Bournemouth 4-0 at home, an increasingly familiar display of attacking brio from a side on a run that saw them score 23 goals and concede two in 10 league matches. Marsh scored a couple, and would later declare it the finest performance of his career. Leaving the ground after the game, Stock became unexpectedly breathless. It was his first asthma attack.
"My asthma was caused and then aggravated, the experts say, by years of shouting and screaming at players during training," he wrote in his autobiography, A Thing Called Pride, which was published in 1981. "It was a real struggle to get through the remainder of our promotion season, and even harder when we went up to the First Division. There were many days when I had to hide my condition from the players and I remember coming home from floodlit matches and just sitting up all night."
Stock's youngest daughter, Sarah, doesn't remember the asthma being particularly debilitating. "He'd never had problems with it as a player," she says. "He'd served in the army in world war two, and as far as I'm aware there was never any issue with it. But that summer I remember I was packed off to Somerset to my grandmother's farm. I kept saying I wanted to go home, and they kept making excuses why I had to stay. What I didn't know was that dad was up in chest hospitals. But most of the time he was at home relaxing. Everything was fine, he was just recuperating."
On medical advice, Stock took three months' leave in the summer of 1968. In his absence QPR faltered, winning only two of their first 17 league fixtures before their manager returned to work that November. "I knew that Jim Gregory would be at the ground," he wrote. "'I want to see you a minute Alec,' he said. I thought he was going to welcome me back with open arms. I thought and hoped he was going to say, 'Come on Alec, glad to have you back, let's get this show on the road again.' But he didn't, and 20 seconds later I was out, sacked, with this damning testimony. 'You are ill, you're incurable, I want you to go.'" Stock later said he had been "treated as though I had pinched the petty cash".
Though in many ways the writing had been on the wall, Stock was genuinely astonished by the sacking. "I just remember the atmosphere at home, being shell-shocked," Sarah says. "I was only three when Dad went to Rangers. I grew up there, I used to hang out there, babysit for the players and go to their weddings. It was just total shock. It was Dad's dream to pick a First Division side, he couldn't understand why they were losing and he had been desperate to get back."
Gregory's family used to socialise with the Stocks. They would buy each other Christmas presents. "Dad got on well with Jim Gregory for a long time. It was all very amenable, but then things just changed very quickly," Sarah says. "Elizabeth [Stock's older daughter] remembers going to the first game in the First Division, and suddenly Tommy Docherty was sitting in the stands. This was before dad had got the sack. Obviously there were things going on behind the scenes."
The club released a terse statement, saying Stock's departure had been "amicably agreed by mutual consent", but journalists were told that Stock was too sick to work. Stock proved them wrong by moving back to the Third Division with Luton six weeks later, and he was to work for another 12 years, bringing the Hatters to promotion and Fulham to an FA Cup final, and live for 33. "He lived with me for the last 10 years of his life, and in his 70s he was still coming to the gym with me and going training, and running my son ragged," Sarah says. Docherty replaced him at QPR, but quit after 28 days having fallen out with Gregory (not for the last time — Docherty returned in 1979, was sacked in May 1980, rehired nine days later and sacked again that October). "When you shook hands with him, you counted your fingers," Docherty said of Gregory. "He was a crook."
Some 10 years after Stock's sacking, Phillips remembers Gregory bringing him up in conversation. "I was sitting in his office when he suddenly said, 'You know my big mistake, Ron? I should never have let Alec go,'" he recalls. "It was the only time I heard him admit to a mistake." Stock was invited back to the club as a director, and briefly retook control of the team as caretaker manager. "It seemed like a good idea at the time," Stock wrote. "I'm sure Jim asked me back to clear his conscience from all those years before, but it was probably the wrong decision." He considered his time in the boardroom "a bloody awful job shaking hands and pouring gin and tonics" and left when Bournemouth offered him what was to be his last job in management, at the age of 62.
But QPR were to be guilty of mistreating Stock again. Though he played for the club before the war, spent a decade there as manager, brought them unparalleled success and later returned to the board, when he grew old and unwell they turned their back. In 1999, two years before his death, Yeovil arranged a testimonial to fund his care but QPR refused to help; after his death they threw a dinner in his honour and again Rangers stayed away. "When my dad was ill, Yeovil and Fulham were the ones who came through," Sarah recalls. "Rodney Marsh and a few players came back, but it was very much Fulham and Yeovil who tried to help."
When Gregory bought the club in 1964 it was in the Third Division, financially imperilled and with a small and ramshackle stadium. When he left it was in the First Division, financially secure and with a totally renovated ground. That the club is where it is today, or that it exists at all, is down in large part to his support, but his treatment of the man who first led QPR to the top flight was every bit as shabby as the rickety old stands he replaced. Stock's wife, Marjorie, once conjured a memorable description of her husband's time at Loftus Road: "He climbed the mountain, and found rubbish at the top.
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The Alec Stock Stand on 17:44 - Dec 15 with 2373 views
Count me and 49,999 other who were at Wembley in 1967 as voting for "The Sir Alec Goals For Jumpers" Stand.
He was treated abysmally and shamefully by the club later in life. Even when he died, we failed to acknowledge his contribution - and he was named as ex Fulham manager - no mention of QPR.
Why does it feel like R'SWiPe is still on the books? Yer Couldn't Make It Up.Well Done Me!
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The Alec Stock Stand on 18:02 - Dec 15 with 2341 views
Are we gonna have a Neil Warnock stand? Terry Venables?...How much success "buys " you a name on the stand...Ian Holloway?
Agreed. The names should be those that have fought hard and fair as players, Leach, McDonald and the like, without fuss over a number of seasons or have contributed from a business point of view to move the club forward. Of course different generations come into it and this is a consideration the club should take Into account. Jim Gregory would be my choice over the 40+ years I've been watching the R's but it's all a matter of opinions.
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The Alec Stock Stand on 18:16 - Dec 15 with 2320 views
The Alec Stock Stand on 17:44 - Dec 15 by ShotKneesHoop
Count me and 49,999 other who were at Wembley in 1967 as voting for "The Sir Alec Goals For Jumpers" Stand.
He was treated abysmally and shamefully by the club later in life. Even when he died, we failed to acknowledge his contribution - and he was named as ex Fulham manager - no mention of QPR.
We had closer to 80,000 shouting for us that day mate.Sir Alec deserves his place in R's Valhalla for that alone.
The Alec Stock Stand on 18:02 - Dec 15 by Sudbury_Hill_R
Agreed. The names should be those that have fought hard and fair as players, Leach, McDonald and the like, without fuss over a number of seasons or have contributed from a business point of view to move the club forward. Of course different generations come into it and this is a consideration the club should take Into account. Jim Gregory would be my choice over the 40+ years I've been watching the R's but it's all a matter of opinions.
I'm not against an Alec Stock stand ...just wondered whether we honour all our successful managers or as you say owners that have made major developments or players with long service records
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The Alec Stock Stand on 18:54 - Dec 15 with 2278 views
I`d fully support all of the other names mentioned above being honoured in some way. We all have our favourite players, and I`d be chuffed to order a Clint Hill Burger at the Clive Allen Cafe. The debate is fun, and perhaps we should vote on who we`d like to honour, on this board or elsewhere (outside the ground at a match?), and then contact the club with the results. Most of the response to this suggests that fans would like SOMEONE (or perhaps many people) to be honoured ,so we need to persuade the club to do any of this sort of thing, or we`ll more likely find ourselves in the Sellotape Stand in the Air Asia Arena, or whatever. I was born in 1968, so Stock`s successes came just before my time; he was from my grandparents` generation. Trying to be objective,however, I challenge anyone to read the article posted above (and watch the fantastic 1967 Final video) and then argue convincingly that another man is MORE deserving of this honour.
[Post edited 15 Dec 2013 19:17]
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The Alec Stock Stand on 19:18 - Dec 15 with 2238 views
I`d fully support all of the other names mentioned above being honoured in some way. We all have our favourite players, and I`d be chuffed to order a Clint Hill Burger at the Clive Allen Cafe. The debate is fun, and perhaps we should vote on who we`d like to honour, on this board or elsewhere (outside the ground at a match?), and then contact the club with the results. Most of the response to this suggests that fans would like SOMEONE (or perhaps many people) to be honoured ,so we need to persuade the club to do any of this sort of thing, or we`ll more likely find ourselves in the Sellotape Stand in the Air Asia Arena, or whatever. I was born in 1968, so Stock`s successes came just before my time; he was from my grandparents` generation. Trying to be objective,however, I challenge anyone to read the article posted above (and watch the fantastic 1967 Final video) and then argue convincingly that another man is MORE deserving of this honour.
[Post edited 15 Dec 2013 19:17]
Totally agree with. That final (before my time too) was typical QPR as well, going 2-0 down. The treatment he got shouldn't have been stood for, his dismissal and his death....He would've been honoured properly under TF's regime i'm sure
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The Alec Stock Stand on 20:34 - Dec 15 with 2181 views
You could argue without the success of stock what happened subsequently with Venables and others might never have happened as we the club would not have grown such as it did, even Gregory who we all accept built the club up in many ways still needed the lifeblood of Stocks managerial success to achieve what he did at the club. To this end he is probably owed the most debt in that regard. Speaking as someone much younger than Stocks era and indeed Venables (as QPR)) manager.
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The Alec Stock Stand on 21:41 - Dec 15 with 2115 views
The Alec Stock Stand on 20:34 - Dec 15 by TGRRRSSS
You could argue without the success of stock what happened subsequently with Venables and others might never have happened as we the club would not have grown such as it did, even Gregory who we all accept built the club up in many ways still needed the lifeblood of Stocks managerial success to achieve what he did at the club. To this end he is probably owed the most debt in that regard. Speaking as someone much younger than Stocks era and indeed Venables (as QPR)) manager.
Obviously we can't honour every successful manager or outstanding player, but Alec Stock really should be a special case. Getting the club into the 1st Division for the first time transformed the club. And it was done in successive seasons, then an unprecedented achievement. Winning the club's only major trophy on top, doing it while still a 3rd Div club [again unprecedented], which should have got us into Europe if the bastards hadn't moved the goalposts, easily outweighs the achievements of, say, Warnock [and I'm far from having a pop at NW.] Obviously Gregory gets huge credit - notwithstanding his shabby treatment of Stock and one or two other tales I've heard - but ultimately the owner is like the producer of a film and the manager is like the director - and I know which name I look for first on the film poster.
He was also, by all accounts, an absolute gent and that's a bloody rarity in the game. Decency ought to count for something.
Inspiration for Ron Manager too, I'm told.
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The Alec Stock Stand on 22:01 - Dec 15 with 2082 views
We could build one stand with all the seats close together with severely restricted views, the toilets with low water pressure, in edible food from the outlets, the roof not quite covering the first 4 rows and call it the Nostalgia stand!
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
The club owe it to themselves and indeed the Stock family, the recognition of Alec Stock's name somewhere in the new stadium. But alas it would just like them to add the name of Jim Gregory somewhere too. Can you imagine two stands with their names emblazoned on them, opposite to each other! Such is the quirky and complex history of this beloved club of ours, I wouldn't put it past them.
There aint half been some clever bastards.
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The Alec Stock Stand on 22:53 - Dec 15 with 2037 views
The Alec Stock Stand on 22:04 - Dec 15 by Monahoop
The club owe it to themselves and indeed the Stock family, the recognition of Alec Stock's name somewhere in the new stadium. But alas it would just like them to add the name of Jim Gregory somewhere too. Can you imagine two stands with their names emblazoned on them, opposite to each other! Such is the quirky and complex history of this beloved club of ours, I wouldn't put it past them.
I wouldn't object to that, actually. For good or ill they were both part of our history and crucial to the club's rise. Perhaps you need both Stock's decency and skill and Gregory's wheeler-dealing and ruthlessness to build a club.
And to be fair to Gregory, at least he regretted his treatment of Stock; and it wasn't him who couldn't be arsed to do the decent thing come the funeral.
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