| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom 11:53 - Aug 9 with 5382 views | numptydumpty |
Think saying this out loud is damaging.
And to say we have been in chaos with the players we have, and that we would be punching if we could avoid relegation - think this kind of talk is demotivating for the squad.
Even if it is true, saying his players are crap is not going to get the best out of them.
IMO it's bad management skills.
If anyone has had a dreaded appraisal in their job roles, whatever the job is, can't think anyone could be super motivated after being told you only have the potential to be super crap.
We know there are players at our club, Willock and Richards, to name a couple that need a totally different type of manager.
Warnock got the best out of Taraabt because he knew he was the key element for our club to be successful. Taraabt was allowed on occasions to skip training and Warnock knew the techniques to get the best out of each and everyone of his squad.
Ainsworths words and the treatment of in particular Willock on Saturday with the late substitution with Willock sends out a dreadful statement and has IMO zero chance of helping players play for the manager. Was appalling management, I felt.
If you recognise your key players, you treat them in the best way get them playing to their total potential.
Not saying they are crap and then do things to p**s them off completely.
Be interested to hear how others view this, in relation to Ainsworths actions !!
[Post edited 9 Aug 2023 11:54]
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| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 11:58 - Aug 9 with 4272 views | stantheman10 |
Personally I think GA got it right with Willock. In fact if he won't sign a new contract I wouldn't even let him near the first team squad and the same for any others that won't commit to the club. I'd rather go down with players who want to be here than have the possibility of players poisoning others who want to play for us |  | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 12:10 - Aug 9 with 4191 views | Northernr |
The bit I don't get is that if that is us, and I don't like it any more than you, then I'd expect a two banks of four set up, or a four and a five, massive protection of our penalty box, midfield coagulant etc. To go through all of this "backs to the wall" stuff all summer and then go to Watford on day one with four up front and two in midfield is just mind blowing to me. Absolutely wide open from literally the first seconds. |  | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 12:14 - Aug 9 with 4171 views | highleverhoopL |
If it is Willocks form and fitness that are worrying buyers couldn't we let him go on a loan until Jan with option to buy - better than having him hanging around in a sulk. | | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 12:23 - Aug 9 with 4104 views | Nov77 |
The comment he made after the Oxford debacle about it being a wake up call, and he said “we can’t go into the Watford game thinking we’re a good team”.
Isn’t his job to make the players believe they are good enough?
If you’re a professional footballer what would you think about your manager saying things like that publicly?
Weird. |  |
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| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 12:23 - Aug 9 with 4103 views | stantheman10 |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 12:10 - Aug 9 by Northernr |
The bit I don't get is that if that is us, and I don't like it any more than you, then I'd expect a two banks of four set up, or a four and a five, massive protection of our penalty box, midfield coagulant etc. To go through all of this "backs to the wall" stuff all summer and then go to Watford on day one with four up front and two in midfield is just mind blowing to me. Absolutely wide open from literally the first seconds. |
In all seriousness the only thing I can think is that perhaps GA was trying to catch out Watford as I'm sure Ismael would think that we would set up all defensive and trying to spoil the game. To be fair conceding such an early goal frigged everything up (and it was a very good goal if you watch the passing and movement involved) so we never got the opportunity to 'surprise' them. | | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 12:51 - Aug 9 with 4007 views | Jevlar |
It's hugely demotivating.
It's like being put in the lower set at school where the best you could get in GCSE Science was a C... perhaps speaking from personal experience here!
Don't dare to have any expectations of anything beyond you.
If you limit what people are capable of, then all you'll get are limited people. |  | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 13:04 - Aug 9 with 3950 views | QPR_Jim |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 12:51 - Aug 9 by Jevlar |
It's hugely demotivating.
It's like being put in the lower set at school where the best you could get in GCSE Science was a C... perhaps speaking from personal experience here!
Don't dare to have any expectations of anything beyond you.
If you limit what people are capable of, then all you'll get are limited people. |
You are possibly right.
I think Warnock was great at motivating and would have used the pre-season relegation talk from outside the camp to galvanise the squad. It won't be easy but we'll prove them wrong, eveyone's written us off but we'll show them - type of thing.
On the other side you can't get too lofty with your ambitions, there's a reason everyone thinks we're going to struggle, so telling the fans to expect a walk in the park to mid-table, maybe a shot at the playoffs is just going to put pressure on players. They will know themselves looking around the dressing room that they'll be fighting at the lower end of the table. It would also potentially give the players coming in to the club the sense that they're being set up to fail with expectations higher than they think reasonable and may make them re-consider joining.
So I think it really is a tightrope to get the right tone across but I reckon Warnock would have used it to put the fire in the players belly while Ainsworth has so far missed the mark on that.
Regarding your analogy of GCSE Science, I think you'd already lost the battle when they put you in one class called science rather than Physics, Biology and Chemistry.  |  | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 13:54 - Aug 9 with 3844 views | Jevlar |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 13:04 - Aug 9 by QPR_Jim |
You are possibly right.
I think Warnock was great at motivating and would have used the pre-season relegation talk from outside the camp to galvanise the squad. It won't be easy but we'll prove them wrong, eveyone's written us off but we'll show them - type of thing.
On the other side you can't get too lofty with your ambitions, there's a reason everyone thinks we're going to struggle, so telling the fans to expect a walk in the park to mid-table, maybe a shot at the playoffs is just going to put pressure on players. They will know themselves looking around the dressing room that they'll be fighting at the lower end of the table. It would also potentially give the players coming in to the club the sense that they're being set up to fail with expectations higher than they think reasonable and may make them re-consider joining.
So I think it really is a tightrope to get the right tone across but I reckon Warnock would have used it to put the fire in the players belly while Ainsworth has so far missed the mark on that.
Regarding your analogy of GCSE Science, I think you'd already lost the battle when they put you in one class called science rather than Physics, Biology and Chemistry. |
You''re right there. I think there was single award science and dual award science... They clearly set the bar low at my school - North Westminster Community School - doesn't exist anymore which says everything.
But as you say it is a tightrope and I hope that GA is saying behind the scenes words to the effect of 'We'll show them. Look at how little they think of us' For those with ambitions to be the top flight finishing 20th won't sit well.
Granted he didn't feature much, but Chair is a world cup semi-finalist. | | | |
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| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:03 - Aug 9 with 3798 views | Hoopsie |
Perhaps he used the wrong talk, putting down the team to fire them up maybe that could work in clubs like Wycombe but not QPR whom he admitted when he arrived is a massive club with good resources and talented players
Otoh, he can’t be shooting off his mouth to big our chances lest he turned out to be a big fool - nearly every betting odds say we are relegation nail on
It is no win situation for him, I really feel for him
It set me thinking, before the game, what did Stevenage do to motivate themselves against Watford? The game suggest they weren’t like QPR, limiting Watford to 6 shots on goal themselves had 4. Or Gillingham against Southampton and Doncaster away to Hull? |  |
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| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:14 - Aug 9 with 3760 views | ThGrimRanger |
Ainsworth tried this approach last season with Willock and Richards. It got him absolutely no where so why bother is probably his thinking for this season.
btw. made me laugh hearing watford's post match interviews after the QPR game sounding like they had done something really special. Then lining up against Stevenage with the same team expecting to blow them away. |  |
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| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:16 - Aug 9 with 3743 views | daveB |
The other day he tried to spin last season as a success as we were favourites for relegation a year ago which is complete cobblers.
If you keep saying over and over again we're going to finish bottom 6 then that is as high as the players will believe they can finish, don't set limits just say we want to compete in every game and see where it takes us. This defeatist attitude from the manager and the club is doing my head in |  | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:25 - Aug 9 with 3702 views | Logman |
I think he has to be realistic. If he touts us to finish higher up the table then it presents everyone with a stick to beat him with when we don't reach those heights.
I think even the most rose-tinted spectacled supporter must realise now that a comfortable mid-table finish is something that we need to dream of and not expect.
Consequently I think it is reasonable for GA to err on the side of caution and publicy state that we have a battle for survival on our hands. | | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:31 - Aug 9 with 3667 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:16 - Aug 9 by daveB |
The other day he tried to spin last season as a success as we were favourites for relegation a year ago which is complete cobblers.
If you keep saying over and over again we're going to finish bottom 6 then that is as high as the players will believe they can finish, don't set limits just say we want to compete in every game and see where it takes us. This defeatist attitude from the manager and the club is doing my head in |
Agreed.
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| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:39 - Aug 9 with 3602 views | Harbour |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 12:10 - Aug 9 by Northernr |
The bit I don't get is that if that is us, and I don't like it any more than you, then I'd expect a two banks of four set up, or a four and a five, massive protection of our penalty box, midfield coagulant etc. To go through all of this "backs to the wall" stuff all summer and then go to Watford on day one with four up front and two in midfield is just mind blowing to me. Absolutely wide open from literally the first seconds. |
Yes he has zero tactical awareness we saw this last season putting out wrong formation. | | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:45 - Aug 9 with 3576 views | slmrstid |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:31 - Aug 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
Agreed.
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Hm I'm not so sure on this. For every athlete that gets elevated to higher levels on the "demand more" approach you will also get many who will throw their toys out the pram about it and sulk that nothing they ever do is good enough. And given the propensity of our lot to sulk at anything I'm not sure simply demanding more of them will get them anywhere.
Even going back to Beale's "You v Yourself" rhetoric of last summer, that only lasted a few months before the slide started! |  | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:57 - Aug 9 with 3530 views | stantheman10 |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:39 - Aug 9 by Harbour |
Yes he has zero tactical awareness we saw this last season putting out wrong formation. |
He's been a league football manager for over 10 years how can he have no tactical awareness! | | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:59 - Aug 9 with 3528 views | CateLeBonR |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:16 - Aug 9 by daveB |
The other day he tried to spin last season as a success as we were favourites for relegation a year ago which is complete cobblers.
If you keep saying over and over again we're going to finish bottom 6 then that is as high as the players will believe they can finish, don't set limits just say we want to compete in every game and see where it takes us. This defeatist attitude from the manager and the club is doing my head in |
You are assuming that he’s not telling the players something different. I think it’s doing all our heads in Dave but I do believe that they have the best interests of the club at heart. |  | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 15:10 - Aug 9 with 3461 views | stantheman10 |
Ainsworth would be best not talking the players up or down in the next few weeks until things hopefully settle down | | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 15:13 - Aug 9 with 3443 views | daveB |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:59 - Aug 9 by CateLeBonR |
You are assuming that he’s not telling the players something different. I think it’s doing all our heads in Dave but I do believe that they have the best interests of the club at heart. |
I hope he is telling the players something different but not sure he is.
I don't doubt he cares and is doing his best but it's sadly not good enough | | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 15:13 - Aug 9 with 3441 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:45 - Aug 9 by slmrstid |
Hm I'm not so sure on this. For every athlete that gets elevated to higher levels on the "demand more" approach you will also get many who will throw their toys out the pram about it and sulk that nothing they ever do is good enough. And given the propensity of our lot to sulk at anything I'm not sure simply demanding more of them will get them anywhere.
Even going back to Beale's "You v Yourself" rhetoric of last summer, that only lasted a few months before the slide started! |
I don't think Greenwood was saying anything more complex than expect better and you'll get better. He just said it in lovely language.
The flip-side is any negative talk or negative self-talk tends to be self-perpetuating, in my experience at least (for what that's worth!). | |
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| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 15:38 - Aug 9 with 3327 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:57 - Aug 9 by stantheman10 |
He's been a league football manager for over 10 years how can he have no tactical awareness! |
Well, that 1st Half team selection and formation at Watford takes some explaining, especially when considering what went on in the weeks before at Wimbledon and Oxford.
I don't think you can over-estimate how some Managers over-complicate the basics.
By example, the one stand-out from my very low level playing days, of the two Centre Halves, if say both are right footed, the weaker ball player would play on the right and the better ball player would have to bring the ball out on his weaker left foot, which he could compensate for by being a better technical player, so..........
Why would a top-level Manager expose Harry Maguire at the highest level by playing as the Left-Sided CB in a 3 or 4...it makes no sense, he will make mistakes, cost you points and diminish the value of your asset, but still some Managers make these basic mistakes, such as playing Dozell in a 2 and being surprised when we are run-ragged through the middle of the park...really? | | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 15:39 - Aug 9 with 3321 views | johnhoop |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 14:57 - Aug 9 by stantheman10 |
He's been a league football manager for over 10 years how can he have no tactical awareness! |
You’re right, it really is almost unbelievable that a football manager with ten years experience should have put out a team and a formation which showed as little tactical awareness as that! | | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 15:43 - Aug 9 with 3292 views | CateLeBonR |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 15:13 - Aug 9 by daveB |
I hope he is telling the players something different but not sure he is.
I don't doubt he cares and is doing his best but it's sadly not good enough |
I think he’s commented a few times about some players at the club thinking they’re great where league positions show otherwise which is fair enough. Bring a few players down a peg or two whilst raising the others up and you’ve got a team maybe. I dunno. I know I’ve got him as my Avatar but I don’t want to come over as Gareth Ainsworths number one fan. That really isn’t the case. I know very little about him as a manager or his methods and haven’t seen anything to be encouraged about on the pitch so far. | | | |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 16:03 - Aug 9 with 3211 views | Superhoop83 |
| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 12:10 - Aug 9 by Northernr |
The bit I don't get is that if that is us, and I don't like it any more than you, then I'd expect a two banks of four set up, or a four and a five, massive protection of our penalty box, midfield coagulant etc. To go through all of this "backs to the wall" stuff all summer and then go to Watford on day one with four up front and two in midfield is just mind blowing to me. Absolutely wide open from literally the first seconds. |
I will be looking back in amazement at that starting 11 for a long time.
Dozzell is so weak we effectively set up 4 1 2 2, with the central defenders being Gubbins and a not match fit left back, and with 2 of the front 4 being a striker not used to (and probably not enough for) this level and a winger who wasn't match fit, neither of whom have the slightest defensive instincts or ability.
Hindsight is easy but most of my goodwill towards Ainsworth had evaporated by 3.01 on Saturday as the one thing I had expected him to do was set us up correctly to try to limit the damage. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 16:04]
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| Ainsworths main goal to come fourth bottom on 16:07 - Aug 9 with 3177 views | kernowhoop |
I share fans' concern at what seems to be GA's ambition simply to avoid relegation.
It also occurs to me, however, that there have been many contributors to this board who do not want QPR to be promoted. Some do not want to be in the Premier League because they do not approve of it; others because we would have a tough time there. Therefore, GA's ambitions should suit them well, shouldn't they? | | | |
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