| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? 23:21 - Mar 30 with 3849 views | NOTRAC |
Today on the media, the talk has been about two managers,Rodgers and Martinez.Because of their current success they are both being classed as great managers, yet not a word has been said bout the part that Swansea has played in their development.
When Swansea picked Rodgers he was a down and out, a virtual unknown.A manager who had been out of work for almost a year,a manager that no one wanted.
Likewise Martinez was a nobody .A player who was coming to the end of a fairly undistinguished career as a player,but who did have media value for his knowledge of Spanish football.
The odds on either becoming two of the best managers in the Premiership would have been about a million to one.
So were they great managers in the making who would have succeeded wherever they went, or was it Swansea that actually made them what they are today.
Before Martinez ' appointment, and especially before Rodgers appointment we were already climbing the tables,we were already a very good side. Indeed the backbone of our present team was already in place.
Whilst I accept that both contributed hugely to our success, there is also no doubt in my mind that we contributed hugely to theirs.
Is there something magical about Swansea and our set up and philosophy that helps to create great managers.
I suppose the real test would be if we retained Gary Monk for next season and we succeeded under him. He has started poorly as far as results are concerned but there is no doubt he appears to be learning fast, and the quality of the football and the player performance he is now generating could see us climb the table, and lead to his retension for next year.
One thing is certain, whoever we appoint as manager for next year could not have a better chance to enhance their future careers |  |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 23:27 - Mar 30 with 2834 views | Private_Partz |
I think it is a bit of both. BR and RM were in complete control however. The same with ML. I hope this proven system continues and we do not have a 'hands on board' as has been suggested is our new way of thinking on here. |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 23:36 - Mar 30 with 2805 views | Joe_bradshaw |
We helped them and they helped us.
We would have reached the top without them and they would have reached the top without us. It would just have taken longer for all parties. |  |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 23:47 - Mar 30 with 2776 views | NOTRAC |
I honestly don't think either would have reached the top if we hadn't given them the chance.Remember Laudrup was even being proposed as manager for Spurs and other top sides after his first season with us.We create good managers, and that is why it would not worry me if Garry Monk had the job for next season. | |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 07:50 - Mar 31 with 2581 views | Jackbustard |
Id say Martinez made us and we made Rodgers to am extent. Martinez changed the whole football ethos at the club and its that style of play that has brought us the rewards.
I think everything was perfectly set up for Rodgers when he came in. He added a few tweaks and we hit the jackpot.
Without either we wouldnt be where we are today and same goes for them with Swansea City I doubt either would be managing in the top flight. | | | |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 07:54 - Mar 31 with 2572 views | jacksinceever |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 23:27 - Mar 30 by Private_Partz |
I think it is a bit of both. BR and RM were in complete control however. The same with ML. I hope this proven system continues and we do not have a 'hands on board' as has been suggested is our new way of thinking on here. |
I agree with is |  | | |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 07:57 - Mar 31 with 2561 views | Clinton |
Let's call it the Swansea effect:
Rodgers top of the Premiership
Sousa top of the Israeli league with Maccabi Tel Aviv
Martinez fifth in Prem, Evertons best season in years
Jacket, top of league one with Wolves |  |
| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 08:05 - Mar 31 with 2536 views | pencoedjack |
Martinez was no doubt a massive part in making us ( & us him)
Brenda got lucky, he inherited what had gone before him & would probably still be writing his dossier if it wasn't for Huw taking a punt.
I really hope the smug bast@rd don't win the league. |  | | |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 08:08 - Mar 31 with 2520 views | Shaky |
I personally think this is fairly dangerous nonsense akin to what is known as exceptionalism or magical thinking if you like.
To the believers I would ask 2 questions: What specific knowledge or skills do you believe is being transferred to these mangers, and what exactly is the transfer mechanism? |  |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 08:12 - Mar 31 with 2500 views | Clinton |
Sure, Brenda got lucky to a certain extent. He did however have the strength of character and ability to keep us up that first season. He learnt from that, but it also shows he's more than lucky. He's got that ruthless streak you need to be successful. | |
| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 08:17 - Mar 31 with 2487 views | MrSwerve |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 08:05 - Mar 31 by pencoedjack |
Martinez was no doubt a massive part in making us ( & us him)
Brenda got lucky, he inherited what had gone before him & would probably still be writing his dossier if it wasn't for Huw taking a punt.
I really hope the smug bast@rd don't win the league. |
Aye he got lucky bringing in players he knew such as Sinclair, Routs, Vorm, Caulker, Graham, Borini and Siggy, the bastard. [Post edited 31 Mar 2014 8:22]
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 08:21 - Mar 31 with 2475 views | karnataka |
I think you'll find that "The odds on either becoming two of the best managers in the Premiership " are a lot more than a million to one! |  | | |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:08 - Mar 31 with 2334 views | Clinton |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 08:08 - Mar 31 by Shaky |
I personally think this is fairly dangerous nonsense akin to what is known as exceptionalism or magical thinking if you like.
To the believers I would ask 2 questions: What specific knowledge or skills do you believe is being transferred to these mangers, and what exactly is the transfer mechanism? |
The knowledge is our footballing "philosophy". I don't know what it is but it's always being mentioned by the pundits so it must be true.
The transfer mechanism is the Huw Jenkins 'Jedi mind-game', instilling fine housekeeping and footballing principals since 2003. | |
| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:15 - Mar 31 with 2308 views | Shaky |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:08 - Mar 31 by Clinton |
The knowledge is our footballing "philosophy". I don't know what it is but it's always being mentioned by the pundits so it must be true.
The transfer mechanism is the Huw Jenkins 'Jedi mind-game', instilling fine housekeeping and footballing principals since 2003. |
You mean the philosophy of wanting to play good football? This as opposed to the many teams who have the philosophy of wishing to play bad football?
As for chairman Jenkins I seriously doubt he is either the repository or communicator of deep footballing wisdom.
The reason I originally said this was dangerous nonsense, is that by ignoring the importance of luck and hard work in selecting managers, you run the serious risk of assuming that with your magical touch you can pick anybody you like and everything will come good in the end. | |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:26 - Mar 31 with 2284 views | Uxbridge |
We were good for them, and they were good for us. By Rodgers' own admission he was going to accept a coaching job elsewhere as he didn't think he'd get another shot at management after his Reading tenure. Couple that with him falling into a position where expectations were inexplicably low despite consecutive top 8 finishes and it was the perfect environment to look good and rehabilitate his image. Done a good job here of course, but if you're asking me who has most to thank the other party for, it's Rodgers.
With Martinez, who knows what would have happened there. Would he have gone back to Spain or got another management job elsewhere? No doubt getting a plum job here straight away shaved a few years off his apprenticeship but would he have eventually got there anyway?
Opportunity really. We gave then one when probably nobody else would have, and we also significantly benefited from it. |  |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:34 - Mar 31 with 2261 views | Clinton |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:15 - Mar 31 by Shaky |
You mean the philosophy of wanting to play good football? This as opposed to the many teams who have the philosophy of wishing to play bad football?
As for chairman Jenkins I seriously doubt he is either the repository or communicator of deep footballing wisdom.
The reason I originally said this was dangerous nonsense, is that by ignoring the importance of luck and hard work in selecting managers, you run the serious risk of assuming that with your magical touch you can pick anybody you like and everything will come good in the end. |
Good football as opposed to any football that gets a result.
Your doubts are noted.
Would you take the current managerial appointment as a test of whether we have the magic touch ?
Let's see....... | |
| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:44 - Mar 31 with 2242 views | icecoldjack |
The club had built up fantastic momentum and was on the march to higher leagues,the appointment of judas 1 was a shrewd one as he knew the players could play his brand of football.
Overall it's a mix of a lot of factors but momentum in a football club is a key ingredient for success,this where the club were smart with jacket, as we started to stall he was pushed out.
Martinez under wigan was nothing special but I guesshewould lose players and work to a small budget there,the momentum was in reverse when he went there where perhaps at everton the club was moving in the right direction already,not unlike we were when he came to us.
I guess timing plays a crucial part and also making the right choices. If Martinez went to villa they would still be lower prem standard,everton had plenty of talent to work with.
Rodgers steered away from spurs to Liverpool ,perhaps knowing the pressure was actually going to be a bit less in terms of instant results.
His second full season has seen him go from hero to zero where as if he went to spurs he would perhaps be on the dole now ?
Both smart guys that's for sure. |  | | |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:46 - Mar 31 with 2232 views | JackSomething |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:26 - Mar 31 by Uxbridge |
We were good for them, and they were good for us. By Rodgers' own admission he was going to accept a coaching job elsewhere as he didn't think he'd get another shot at management after his Reading tenure. Couple that with him falling into a position where expectations were inexplicably low despite consecutive top 8 finishes and it was the perfect environment to look good and rehabilitate his image. Done a good job here of course, but if you're asking me who has most to thank the other party for, it's Rodgers.
With Martinez, who knows what would have happened there. Would he have gone back to Spain or got another management job elsewhere? No doubt getting a plum job here straight away shaved a few years off his apprenticeship but would he have eventually got there anyway?
Opportunity really. We gave then one when probably nobody else would have, and we also significantly benefited from it. |
Is the correct answer. Both parties were good for each other in both cases. It's the boring answer, but it's also almost certainly the correct one.
If you have to lean more one way than the other, then Martinez did more to make us and we did more to make Rodgers, but they're obviously both talented managers. |  |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:50 - Mar 31 with 2224 views | Shaky |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:34 - Mar 31 by Clinton |
Good football as opposed to any football that gets a result.
Your doubts are noted.
Would you take the current managerial appointment as a test of whether we have the magic touch ?
Let's see....... |
No, because objectively speaking there can never be such a thing as a magic touch.
Furthermore, the immediate danger in the present situation is that the bar is being set far too low; survival is being viewed as success.
That's a very low hurdle indeed. | |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:51 - Mar 31 with 2226 views | Darran |
Don't forget Martinez invented passing. |  |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:55 - Mar 31 with 2207 views | waynekerr55 |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:51 - Mar 31 by Darran |
Don't forget Martinez invented passing. |
And that Kenny only got us up on the back of the "work" of Brian Flynn |  |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:58 - Mar 31 with 2203 views | Darran |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:55 - Mar 31 by waynekerr55 |
And that Kenny only got us up on the back of the "work" of Brian Flynn |
Indeed. | |
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| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 13:21 - Mar 31 with 2032 views | blaenaugwentjack |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:58 - Mar 31 by Darran |
Indeed. |
Martinez made with a big helping off flynn, Rodgers made himself out of chocolate  | | | |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 13:28 - Mar 31 with 2018 views | acejack3065 |
While Roberto didn't invent passing he changed the philosophy of the club. Its often forgotten as to why the club decided to change its philosophy into the one that we have become so famous for.
The reason why we changed is because we couldn't afford the top players required for escaping the doldrums with a typical english brand of football. Losing out on Grant Holt to Forest one year sticks in my mind. We couldn't compete financially so we installed an ethos of playing the right way with cheaper footballers and it worked.
We have to thank Roberto and his team for his insight into the Spanish Leagues and his ability to buy cheap e.g. Rangel. I'm sure Roberto is grateful for the opportunity we gave him and I'm sure without us, his ascent would have taken longer but I have no doubt he would have eventually achieved it.
Brendan was lucky that a club like us was around. We were growing a philosophy and we took a punt on him as he was practically unemployable at the time. Without us, he wouldn't have got a League one job. The club deserves credit for taking him on and we owe him a big thank you for what he achieved.
With any luck Gary is the next one in succession to becoming a successful manager. Nine points or better from the next six games will probably get him the job and the Swans adventure bus keeps on rolling. |  | | |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 13:31 - Mar 31 with 2005 views | Spratty |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:51 - Mar 31 by Darran |
Don't forget Martinez invented passing. |
Except at Liverpool where Bren invented it. |  | | |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 13:38 - Mar 31 with 1990 views | MattG |
| Martinez and Rodgers.Did we make them or did they make us? on 10:50 - Mar 31 by Shaky |
No, because objectively speaking there can never be such a thing as a magic touch.
Furthermore, the immediate danger in the present situation is that the bar is being set far too low; survival is being viewed as success.
That's a very low hurdle indeed. |
Depends on your starting point. |  | | |
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