| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN 10:05 - Oct 15 with 5217 views | johnlangy |
I was thinking again this morning about how important this will be for the future of the Club.
We regularly talk about how far the Swans catchment extends, especially to the West. The ONLY other Club who could entice new supporters from West Wales away from the Swans is Cardiff (i'm not including Man U glory chasers here) so how crucial is it that we do everything we can to ensure new supporters from West Wales choose the Swans ?
In my opinion the answer is absolutely crucial. While we are in the PL is the perfect time for it especially so now Cardiff are not there. Any youngster from West Wales who develops an interest in Football will see the Swans (not Cardiff) week in/week out on Sky or MOTD and, whenever one of them says 'Dad, will you take me to see the Swans' the Liberty needs sufficient capacity to accommodate them.
We all know the PL is the most popular Football League in the World and it's a guarantee that virtually every day some youngster is asking their Dad/Mum the above question. But, at the moment the answer will be 'sorry I can't get tickets'.
I know the Club needs to be careful about finances but the only area where we have not advanced in the last four years is Stadium capacity. Whenever we do it it'll be a gamble. We could be relegated the very year that we expand. But that argument could apply forever. If the gamble comes off and those youngsters get to see the Swans and become lifelong supporters the benefits to the future of the Club would outstrip the initial cost a hundredfold.
John |  | | |  |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 10:17 - Oct 15 with 3971 views | dgt73 |
Everytime you get out of bed in the morning "its a gamble" you could fall bang your head and die. The expansion will be great and very important for the club. |  |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 10:38 - Oct 15 with 3932 views | OwenThom |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 10:17 - Oct 15 by dgt73 |
Everytime you get out of bed in the morning "its a gamble" you could fall bang your head and die. The expansion will be great and very important for the club. |
Spot on. |  |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 12:12 - Oct 15 with 3831 views | Al_Bundy |
As long as there is a good stream of income from the FA and Sky there is no real motivation to expand our ground. The ROI of a ground expansion would probably take a decade with fan attendance at the ground. | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 12:34 - Oct 15 with 3770 views | JBT95 |
If you want tickets bad enough.. you'll get them. Same with everything. |  | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 12:37 - Oct 15 with 3763 views | Wolfie |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 12:12 - Oct 15 by Al_Bundy |
As long as there is a good stream of income from the FA and Sky there is no real motivation to expand our ground. The ROI of a ground expansion would probably take a decade with fan attendance at the ground. |
But surely it's the next decade(s) you have to thiink about.
We'd be stupid to think we'll never get relegated, where's the Sky money then?
We'll be back to relying on gate money. |  |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 12:54 - Oct 15 with 3716 views | father_jack |
well said. been having this arguement with a load of our one eyed fans.
these people only seem to think in the here and now. |  |
| DRINK, FECK, GIRRRRLLSSS! |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 13:13 - Oct 15 with 3672 views | Pegojack |
Build it, and they will come.
Or as Perchrockjack would say:
Brd it and thy will be crum, so [Post edited 15 Oct 2014 13:15]
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 13:22 - Oct 15 with 3634 views | Al_Bundy |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 12:37 - Oct 15 by Wolfie |
But surely it's the next decade(s) you have to thiink about.
We'd be stupid to think we'll never get relegated, where's the Sky money then?
We'll be back to relying on gate money. |
On that basis we'll be in the Championship and our ground will be big enough as it stands.
The reality is we are investing in the right areas of the club training ground/academy e.g
Developing a fan base to attend matches and bring on the next generation of fans appears quite limiting at the moment for various reasons. | | | |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 13:36 - Oct 15 with 3600 views | Wolfie |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 13:22 - Oct 15 by Al_Bundy |
On that basis we'll be in the Championship and our ground will be big enough as it stands.
The reality is we are investing in the right areas of the club training ground/academy e.g
Developing a fan base to attend matches and bring on the next generation of fans appears quite limiting at the moment for various reasons. |
We could add another 5k seats now and we could fill them pretty easily. Hopefully turning more fans into regulars and intoducing the next generation.
If we were then relegated in say 5 years time we'd have a much healthier core of fans who wouldn't drift away.
I'd rather see attanedances drop from 25k to 20k than from 20k to 15k [Post edited 15 Oct 2014 13:38]
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 13:57 - Oct 15 with 3544 views | SgorioFruit |
My response on this subject has remained unchanged for the last 4 years....
Build it and they will come!!! |  |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 14:01 - Oct 15 with 3529 views | NeathJack |
Further to this, i notice today that the Leicester game which is live on tv is now sold out.
The expansion is desperately needed or else a whole generation of fans will basically be locked out and potentially lost to us.. |  | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 14:10 - Oct 15 with 3515 views | Glyn1 |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 13:36 - Oct 15 by Wolfie |
We could add another 5k seats now and we could fill them pretty easily. Hopefully turning more fans into regulars and intoducing the next generation.
If we were then relegated in say 5 years time we'd have a much healthier core of fans who wouldn't drift away.
I'd rather see attanedances drop from 25k to 20k than from 20k to 15k [Post edited 15 Oct 2014 13:38]
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Great posting!
Do any fans of Championship clubs complain that their grounds are too big? |  |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 16:38 - Oct 15 with 3402 views | johnlangy |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 12:34 - Oct 15 by JBT95 |
If you want tickets bad enough.. you'll get them. Same with everything. |
That statement is so nonsensical it beggars belief.Are you saying that if 21,000 people want tickets for a match they will get them ? They obviously won't no matter how badly they want them. And there have been far more than 21,000 people chasing tickets for over 3 seasons now.
It makes no sense to lock out paying customers. | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 16:53 - Oct 15 with 3369 views | johnlangy |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 12:12 - Oct 15 by Al_Bundy |
As long as there is a good stream of income from the FA and Sky there is no real motivation to expand our ground. The ROI of a ground expansion would probably take a decade with fan attendance at the ground. |
The original cost of the full expansion was given by HJ as £15 m. If those seats were sold out the income per season would be an extra £5 m based on an average ticket cost of £25.
So that's the expansion paid for in 3 seasons. And if all games weren't sell outs it may take 4 or 5 seasons.
But that's not the way the board works. Investment in the squad and training grounds has been funded as money has become available. The same with the expansion. So, when it is built it will have already been paid for. Which then means any extra income (£5 m per season) will be available for team strengthening | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 22:01 - Oct 15 with 3148 views | longlostjack |
I get the argument about pay on the day and attracting the next generation but I'd hate to see us compromise on transfers if we go overboard on the stadium expansion. I think the idea is to do it in stages which is good and for the moment another 5000 on the capacity will be more than enough in my opinion. |  |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 22:05 - Oct 15 with 3135 views | jacksinceever |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 16:38 - Oct 15 by johnlangy |
That statement is so nonsensical it beggars belief.Are you saying that if 21,000 people want tickets for a match they will get them ? They obviously won't no matter how badly they want them. And there have been far more than 21,000 people chasing tickets for over 3 seasons now.
It makes no sense to lock out paying customers. |
Until fairly recently, my view has been that there always seems to be some tickets available, ergo as JTB says if you want a ticket bad enough, you can get it.
However, the more I have read over the last year (studies, Swans histories, how other clubs have buikt themselves up), I have come to believe that two things need to happen.
1 - An expansion to accommodate over and above the number of STs we can sell, so as to allow walk up fans to visit and attend games.
2 - We need to buy our stadium and maximize the use of the stadium 12 months of the year, with bolt-on facilities if needs be (I know Huw says it's a non-starter but he and the board have to look at the longer picture). If we stay in the PL for say ten years, how much could we make from maximizing the stadium's potential? |  | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 22:08 - Oct 15 with 3128 views | jacksinceever |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 16:53 - Oct 15 by johnlangy |
The original cost of the full expansion was given by HJ as £15 m. If those seats were sold out the income per season would be an extra £5 m based on an average ticket cost of £25.
So that's the expansion paid for in 3 seasons. And if all games weren't sell outs it may take 4 or 5 seasons.
But that's not the way the board works. Investment in the squad and training grounds has been funded as money has become available. The same with the expansion. So, when it is built it will have already been paid for. Which then means any extra income (£5 m per season) will be available for team strengthening |
For all those concerned with the cost of expansion affecting funds for players, I say why not debentures? I'm sure many will be happy to help secure the long term growth of the club | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 01:46 - Oct 16 with 3009 views | dameedna |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 16:53 - Oct 15 by johnlangy |
The original cost of the full expansion was given by HJ as £15 m. If those seats were sold out the income per season would be an extra £5 m based on an average ticket cost of £25.
So that's the expansion paid for in 3 seasons. And if all games weren't sell outs it may take 4 or 5 seasons.
But that's not the way the board works. Investment in the squad and training grounds has been funded as money has become available. The same with the expansion. So, when it is built it will have already been paid for. Which then means any extra income (£5 m per season) will be available for team strengthening |
I agree with your numbers with a payback of 4 or 5 years
No extra income for 4 or 5 years
After 5 years it would get interesting with an additional 4 million pa net
Planning for the close season is tricky due to the duration of construction
If it goes wrong we may have smaller capacity for part of the next season |  | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 03:40 - Oct 16 with 2989 views | Catullus |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 01:46 - Oct 16 by dameedna |
I agree with your numbers with a payback of 4 or 5 years
No extra income for 4 or 5 years
After 5 years it would get interesting with an additional 4 million pa net
Planning for the close season is tricky due to the duration of construction
If it goes wrong we may have smaller capacity for part of the next season |
With the initial phase supposedly due to start in January, at no detriment to attendance, your point seems invalid! | |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 08:38 - Oct 16 with 2901 views | hammy |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 22:01 - Oct 15 by longlostjack |
I get the argument about pay on the day and attracting the next generation but I'd hate to see us compromise on transfers if we go overboard on the stadium expansion. I think the idea is to do it in stages which is good and for the moment another 5000 on the capacity will be more than enough in my opinion. |
Yes a 5k expansion would be a good next step IMHO. It would seem to be affordable and we could then assess take up and when / how to expand further. |  |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 08:40 - Oct 16 with 2898 views | dameedna |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 03:40 - Oct 16 by Catullus |
With the initial phase supposedly due to start in January, at no detriment to attendance, your point seems invalid! |
You're probably right
In comparison to Wembley roof there would not be much to it I assume
I have not seen the designs
On balance, I'll change my opinion and say go for it
Probably never get a better chance | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 09:04 - Oct 16 with 2874 views | johnlangy |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 08:40 - Oct 16 by dameedna |
You're probably right
In comparison to Wembley roof there would not be much to it I assume
I have not seen the designs
On balance, I'll change my opinion and say go for it
Probably never get a better chance |
The designs are there for all to see on the Council website. Go into Planning, select Planning Application Search and type Liberty Stadium into the search field. | | | |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 09:11 - Oct 16 with 2861 views | ScoobyWho |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 03:40 - Oct 16 by Catullus |
With the initial phase supposedly due to start in January, at no detriment to attendance, your point seems invalid! |
It's been starting in January, June and September for the last 6 years. |  |
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| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 09:23 - Oct 16 with 2845 views | Al_Bundy |
| EXPANSION ----------- AGAIN on 16:53 - Oct 15 by johnlangy |
The original cost of the full expansion was given by HJ as £15 m. If those seats were sold out the income per season would be an extra £5 m based on an average ticket cost of £25.
So that's the expansion paid for in 3 seasons. And if all games weren't sell outs it may take 4 or 5 seasons.
But that's not the way the board works. Investment in the squad and training grounds has been funded as money has become available. The same with the expansion. So, when it is built it will have already been paid for. Which then means any extra income (£5 m per season) will be available for team strengthening |
Doubt very much this project would be paid for in 4 or 5 years. The ticketing revenue would not all be gross profit. The club would have to maintain that section , upgrade their public liability insurance and pay for utility and energy costs not to mention stewarding each match. This also would be based on every match in the new section being a sell out.
It does need to be done , phase one 5k at a bare minimum. The further upgrades could be considered in the future. Then comes the debate on how much we chuck at a stadium which isn't ours. | | | |
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