| The dirty war on the NHS 11:40 - Dec 22 with 4427 views | Catullus |
A film by John Pilger. It's shocking, even when you already knew much of it was happening. It also provides more reasons for getting Tony Blair into a court to face questions. He, along with Alan Milburn lied to the British people. He went about increasing privatisation in the NHS by stealth, he was Thatchers love child in that respect.
The PFI scandal, the NHS borrowed roughly 11 billion but will end up paying back around 80 billion over 30-40 years. That is where much of the money goes.
Watch it and be angry at all of our politicians (including Corbyn for making Labour unelectable)
https://www.itv.com/hub/the-dirty-war-on-the-nhs/2a5959a0001 |  |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 11:59 - Dec 22 with 3159 views | Best_loser |
It's well known Cameron and Johnson are admirers of Blair
I thought Blair was ok, people say he was a tory, I don't buy that |  | | |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:38 - Dec 22 with 3118 views | Catullus |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 11:59 - Dec 22 by Best_loser |
It's well known Cameron and Johnson are admirers of Blair
I thought Blair was ok, people say he was a tory, I don't buy that |
Lots of people fell for Blair, myself included. Hindsight should be 100%, apparently not. | |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:46 - Dec 22 with 3110 views | Best_loser |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:38 - Dec 22 by Catullus |
Lots of people fell for Blair, myself included. Hindsight should be 100%, apparently not. |
Your not happy with blair, your not happy with corbyn , what would you be happy with ?
Blair won 3 elections, you don't fool people 3 times | | | |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:56 - Dec 22 with 3096 views | JimmyGilligan |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:46 - Dec 22 by Best_loser |
Your not happy with blair, your not happy with corbyn , what would you be happy with ?
Blair won 3 elections, you don't fool people 3 times |
Well the tories are 2 for 2 right now, so its not impossible to fool people 3 times |  | | |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 13:01 - Dec 22 with 3087 views | Best_loser |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:56 - Dec 22 by JimmyGilligan |
Well the tories are 2 for 2 right now, so its not impossible to fool people 3 times |
Fair point
Not with the same PM though | | | |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 13:01 - Dec 22 with 3080 views | Highjack |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:46 - Dec 22 by Best_loser |
Your not happy with blair, your not happy with corbyn , what would you be happy with ?
Blair won 3 elections, you don't fool people 3 times |
The Tories were going through a similar sort of period to labour are now. A series of weak ineffectual leaders with no real clear direction. Blair wiped the floor with all of them and left them defeated, broken and bloodied like some Iraqi infant school children that he bombed the next day. |  |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 13:25 - Dec 22 with 3058 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:46 - Dec 22 by Best_loser |
Your not happy with blair, your not happy with corbyn , what would you be happy with ?
Blair won 3 elections, you don't fool people 3 times |
How naive that you think that an actor like Blair, who was a consumate liar and a compliant MSM couldn't fool enough people to keep getting voted in.
Especially as has been noted that there was little opposition. | | | |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 13:30 - Dec 22 with 3050 views | Best_loser |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 13:25 - Dec 22 by A_Fans_Dad |
How naive that you think that an actor like Blair, who was a consumate liar and a compliant MSM couldn't fool enough people to keep getting voted in.
Especially as has been noted that there was little opposition. |
Your man lying Boris
He even lied to the queen, you tory supporters are the biggest liars of all [Post edited 22 Dec 2019 13:32]
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 13:35 - Dec 22 with 3040 views | monmouth |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:46 - Dec 22 by Best_loser |
Your not happy with blair, your not happy with corbyn , what would you be happy with ?
Blair won 3 elections, you don't fool people 3 times |
I'd be happy with Harold Wilson right now. F*ck, I'd be happy with Ted Heath right now.
The ideal one though? John Smith. If there realy was a god, rather than just capricious random events, Blair should have been home Secretary at most and never anything else.
What we've ended up with, with the chain of events set in motion by Blair and Campbell, beggars belief. PFI is an abomination. But so is Johnson and his Brexit incompetence, which will cost a lot more than 80 billion. |  |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 14:34 - Dec 22 with 2987 views | Highjack |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 13:35 - Dec 22 by monmouth |
I'd be happy with Harold Wilson right now. F*ck, I'd be happy with Ted Heath right now.
The ideal one though? John Smith. If there realy was a god, rather than just capricious random events, Blair should have been home Secretary at most and never anything else.
What we've ended up with, with the chain of events set in motion by Blair and Campbell, beggars belief. PFI is an abomination. But so is Johnson and his Brexit incompetence, which will cost a lot more than 80 billion. |
Yes it was very fortunate for Tony that nearly everyone who stood in his way died young, some in remote fields and mountains.
Fate was certainly on his side. | |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 14:35 - Dec 22 with 2990 views | Lohengrin |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 13:35 - Dec 22 by monmouth |
I'd be happy with Harold Wilson right now. F*ck, I'd be happy with Ted Heath right now.
The ideal one though? John Smith. If there realy was a god, rather than just capricious random events, Blair should have been home Secretary at most and never anything else.
What we've ended up with, with the chain of events set in motion by Blair and Campbell, beggars belief. PFI is an abomination. But so is Johnson and his Brexit incompetence, which will cost a lot more than 80 billion. |
” The ideal one though? John Smith.”
I’ve read this sort of comment umpteen times in the last few years and I’m at a loss as to how and why this myth of Smith as Labour’s great lost leader sustains itself?
Most if not all of us on here are old enough to remember him and my memory is of a party functionary who spent the first half of the ‘80s tethered to Denis Healey then latterly Roy Hattersley. Playing the straight man to two career politicians who had become to all intents and purposes indistinguishable from their Spitting Image caricatures.
I’m not suggesting Smith wasn’t a nice chap, I’m sure he was, but I fail to discern in him the originality of thought or any semblance of the charisma inherent in a ‘Leader.’
Perhaps I expect too much? |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 14:47 - Dec 22 with 2970 views | sherpajacob |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 14:35 - Dec 22 by Lohengrin |
” The ideal one though? John Smith.”
I’ve read this sort of comment umpteen times in the last few years and I’m at a loss as to how and why this myth of Smith as Labour’s great lost leader sustains itself?
Most if not all of us on here are old enough to remember him and my memory is of a party functionary who spent the first half of the ‘80s tethered to Denis Healey then latterly Roy Hattersley. Playing the straight man to two career politicians who had become to all intents and purposes indistinguishable from their Spitting Image caricatures.
I’m not suggesting Smith wasn’t a nice chap, I’m sure he was, but I fail to discern in him the originality of thought or any semblance of the charisma inherent in a ‘Leader.’
Perhaps I expect too much? |
are you saying he didn't have the same level of integrity as Jacob Rees Mogg? |  |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 15:36 - Dec 22 with 2923 views | Lohengrin |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 14:47 - Dec 22 by sherpajacob |
are you saying he didn't have the same level of integrity as Jacob Rees Mogg? |
They’d have shared the same politicians’s unblinking capacity to advocate today what they opposed the day before if little else. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 15:41 - Dec 22 with 2914 views | AnotherJohn |
It is indeed one of life's little ironies that such NHS privatisation that has so far occurred owes as much to Labour as it does to the Tories or the Coalition. The big wave of NHS PFIs (the early Tory cases were in other sectors) and the move to beef up the internal market (arms' length regulation, FTs, PbR and ISTCs) after 2002 both came under Labour governments. However, my take on privatisation is that the English NHS has reacted to austerity by actually toning down the use of market levers (and turning instead to STPs and integrated care organisations), and that attempts to privatise core services have tailed off. Those who think the US HMOs are lining up to take over NHS hospitals need to look at what happened when Circle Heathcare won a contract to run Hinchingbrooke Hospital, the first case where an NHS general hospital was managed by a private entity. Basically Circle got their fingers badly burned and accepted a penalty payment to get out of the contract. Since then none of the other PMI or hospital provider groups have tried to do the same; they prefer to concentrate on selling niche services to the NHS rather than taking the risk of managing an NHS hospital. Therefore my view is that any risk to the NHS in a trade deal with the USA will come in areas like drug patent extensions rather than hospital takeovers, and in fact neither thing happened in Australia after its deal with the Americans.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jan/09/circle-exit-private-contract-hin
https://www.nhsforsale.info/private-providers/circle-new/
Another interesting point is that there are more PFI contracts per million population in Scotland than any of the other home countries. The SNP don't often mention that.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/18/expert-report-calls-for-inq [Post edited 22 Dec 2019 16:02]
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 16:34 - Dec 22 with 2840 views | monmouth |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 14:35 - Dec 22 by Lohengrin |
” The ideal one though? John Smith.”
I’ve read this sort of comment umpteen times in the last few years and I’m at a loss as to how and why this myth of Smith as Labour’s great lost leader sustains itself?
Most if not all of us on here are old enough to remember him and my memory is of a party functionary who spent the first half of the ‘80s tethered to Denis Healey then latterly Roy Hattersley. Playing the straight man to two career politicians who had become to all intents and purposes indistinguishable from their Spitting Image caricatures.
I’m not suggesting Smith wasn’t a nice chap, I’m sure he was, but I fail to discern in him the originality of thought or any semblance of the charisma inherent in a ‘Leader.’
Perhaps I expect too much? |
I met him on a number of occasions and he was 100% straight up in my view. I'm not saying he had great charisma as he certainly didn't, nor flair. But, and here's the crux, he would not have wasted such great opportunity and goodwill in 1997, nor would he have gone to war in Iraq to brown nose Bush. Not in my view anyway. For the times we are living in now a decent boring grey Scottish administrator is exactly what we need. The truth of Brexit would have been painstakingly and boringly taken apart and assembled clearly as an honest choice. And if we'd gone ahead, the negotiations would have been honest and detailed.
So, a great lost 'leader'? You might be right, no, but comparing it with what we've had since he died (Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson) his honesty and boringness towers above their 'charisma' in value my mind. For what it's worth I think John Major would have done the same job in the other team colours. We had a great position in 1995 onwards. We needed someone not to f*ck it up. Instead we have had a succession of empty self serving pricks. And that applies equally to the leaders of Labour and Liberals. Clegg should be hung drawn and quartered. [Post edited 22 Dec 2019 16:35]
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 22:20 - Dec 22 with 2655 views | Catullus |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:46 - Dec 22 by Best_loser |
Your not happy with blair, your not happy with corbyn , what would you be happy with ?
Blair won 3 elections, you don't fool people 3 times |
I'd be happy with a politician who didn't lie or cheat or a politician who didn't mislead the whole country into war or hide his true ambitions to privatise the NHS.
There was another jibe about tories which is a typical response, not liking Labour politicians, ooh you must be a Tory. I ndon't like Plaid either so I must be a traitor to my country. I didn't vote green so I must be happy we are destroying our planet....
any other false assumptions you'd like to share?
As we all saw, Blair DID fool the people 3 times but he doesn't fool people any more, well most of us anyway.
This is Blairs evaluation of Labours recent disaster,
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair-jeremy-corbyn-next-labour-leader-el
She won't get it but out of the current contenders I could see myself supporting Jess Phillips with Lisa Nandy as her second in command. Neither, as far as I know is Corbynite or Blairite though I could be wrong.
Long-Bailey, nope, not her either before you ask. | |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 23:49 - Dec 22 with 2495 views | Highjack |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 22:20 - Dec 22 by Catullus |
I'd be happy with a politician who didn't lie or cheat or a politician who didn't mislead the whole country into war or hide his true ambitions to privatise the NHS.
There was another jibe about tories which is a typical response, not liking Labour politicians, ooh you must be a Tory. I ndon't like Plaid either so I must be a traitor to my country. I didn't vote green so I must be happy we are destroying our planet....
any other false assumptions you'd like to share?
As we all saw, Blair DID fool the people 3 times but he doesn't fool people any more, well most of us anyway.
This is Blairs evaluation of Labours recent disaster,
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair-jeremy-corbyn-next-labour-leader-el
She won't get it but out of the current contenders I could see myself supporting Jess Phillips with Lisa Nandy as her second in command. Neither, as far as I know is Corbynite or Blairite though I could be wrong.
Long-Bailey, nope, not her either before you ask. |
Bloody Nora. Jess Phillips and Lisa Nandy. That’s where the Labour Party is right now. [Post edited 23 Dec 2019 0:32]
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 10:34 - Dec 23 with 2228 views | Catullus |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 23:49 - Dec 22 by Highjack |
Bloody Nora. Jess Phillips and Lisa Nandy. That’s where the Labour Party is right now. [Post edited 23 Dec 2019 0:32]
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They seem to me to be the best of a bad bunch. I'd be worried Starmer was another Blairite, Long-Bailey a Corbynista.
The best choice doesn't mean a fantastic choice. After all a lot of Labour voters thought Bojo a better choice than Corbyn! | |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:10 - Dec 23 with 2166 views | sherpajacob |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 15:36 - Dec 22 by Lohengrin |
They’d have shared the same politicians’s unblinking capacity to advocate today what they opposed the day before if little else. |
yet you thought JRM was a man of integrity? | |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:12 - Dec 23 with 2157 views | Highjack |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 10:34 - Dec 23 by Catullus |
They seem to me to be the best of a bad bunch. I'd be worried Starmer was another Blairite, Long-Bailey a Corbynista.
The best choice doesn't mean a fantastic choice. After all a lot of Labour voters thought Bojo a better choice than Corbyn! |
Out of those three I’d vote for bloody Nora. | |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:20 - Dec 23 with 2146 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:12 - Dec 23 by Highjack |
Out of those three I’d vote for bloody Nora. |
But regardless of who leads Labour you’re hardly likely to vote for them anyway. At a guess. |  |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 13:26 - Dec 23 with 2098 views | Highjack |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 12:20 - Dec 23 by exiledclaseboy |
But regardless of who leads Labour you’re hardly likely to vote for them anyway. At a guess. |
You’d guess wrong, I’d happily vote for them if they weren’t such a bunch of clowns. Same as plaid. I’m clearly their target audience, I’d like to see decisions affecting Wales and welsh people made in Wales by welsh people but they are failing massively and show nothing but contempt to most of the people of Wales.
Ditto labour. And all the others. | |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 18:59 - Dec 23 with 1976 views | Catullus |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 13:26 - Dec 23 by Highjack |
You’d guess wrong, I’d happily vote for them if they weren’t such a bunch of clowns. Same as plaid. I’m clearly their target audience, I’d like to see decisions affecting Wales and welsh people made in Wales by welsh people but they are failing massively and show nothing but contempt to most of the people of Wales.
Ditto labour. And all the others. |
I'm critical of most politicians but at some point you have to give someone a chance. Freed from the shackles of Corbyn and Momentum Phillips and Nandy might be decent enough. Certainly better than Abbott, Thornberry or Long-Bailey. | |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 19:06 - Dec 23 with 1971 views | longlostjack |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 18:59 - Dec 23 by Catullus |
I'm critical of most politicians but at some point you have to give someone a chance. Freed from the shackles of Corbyn and Momentum Phillips and Nandy might be decent enough. Certainly better than Abbott, Thornberry or Long-Bailey. |
Starmer / Rayner would put the wind up the Tories but won’t happen unfortunately. |  |
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| The dirty war on the NHS on 19:20 - Dec 23 with 1939 views | Highjack |
| The dirty war on the NHS on 18:59 - Dec 23 by Catullus |
I'm critical of most politicians but at some point you have to give someone a chance. Freed from the shackles of Corbyn and Momentum Phillips and Nandy might be decent enough. Certainly better than Abbott, Thornberry or Long-Bailey. |
No you shouldn’t just “give them a chance”. They should have to earn your vote. The reason our system is as shit as it is is because people continue to vote for parties and people they don’t like just because they are considered the least bad option. | |
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