| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? 16:10 - Aug 19 with 3548 views | jackrmee |
So we have some people stating that we are not able to play the type of football RM wants.
We should not attempt to play this way until we have players who are able to do it.
They players we have are unable to adapt to this, as they are simply not goo enough.
Can we make a list of players that need to be shipped out?
I'll start by saying that I agree with Bidwell going, even though I really like him as a player, but only if we can replace him with a flying WB that RM wants.
I would like a top striker in order to improve but would still keep Lowe and Piroe.
I'd loan some of the young players out for experience.
Cullen.
Garrick.
Oli Cooper.
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 16:27 - Aug 19 with 3528 views | jackrmee |
So Parnasuss.
You say " the list of players that will not excel in this system. Cullen, Fulton, Bidwell, Manning, Latibaudiere, Bennett. There’s a few to whet your appetite, there is probably more."
So you think they ar totally unable to play the Swansea way, an should be sold ASAP?
Or do you think we should sack the manager and get one in who can play to these players' strengths? | |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 16:31 - Aug 19 with 3519 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 16:27 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
So Parnasuss.
You say " the list of players that will not excel in this system. Cullen, Fulton, Bidwell, Manning, Latibaudiere, Bennett. There’s a few to whet your appetite, there is probably more."
So you think they ar totally unable to play the Swansea way, an should be sold ASAP?
Or do you think we should sack the manager and get one in who can play to these players' strengths? |
Why are you asking me the same stupid questions spanning 4 different threads? Weren’t the others enough for these silly questions you felt the need for another?
My stance is clear on all threads and if you think I’m going to be answering the same questions on four different threads you need to see a doctor.
Instead of asking the same stupid questions over and over again, how about reading and understanding the multiple answers you are getting? |  |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:10 - Aug 19 with 3468 views | jackrmee |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 16:31 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Why are you asking me the same stupid questions spanning 4 different threads? Weren’t the others enough for these silly questions you felt the need for another?
My stance is clear on all threads and if you think I’m going to be answering the same questions on four different threads you need to see a doctor.
Instead of asking the same stupid questions over and over again, how about reading and understanding the multiple answers you are getting? |
I thought it deserves a specific discussion instead of cloggin up other people's threads.
You have stated that you don't believe most of our players are capable of ever playing in the style RM wants to play.
I just want to know who these incapable players are and what you suggest we do with them, if they are unable to adapt?
You also say that RM should play pragmatically, until we have the players to play the way he wants.
You then state that you don't think we should sell the players above. If that's the case, and they are unable to play RMs way, you must think that we should sack RM. Is that right?
If you don't think we should sack RM, and you don't think we should sell these players, what is your next idea?
I can only see 2 options...
Expect RM to change, to suit these players.
OR, keep these players and play them in the reserves or loan them out? What would be the point in that? | |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:19 - Aug 19 with 3458 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:10 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
I thought it deserves a specific discussion instead of cloggin up other people's threads.
You have stated that you don't believe most of our players are capable of ever playing in the style RM wants to play.
I just want to know who these incapable players are and what you suggest we do with them, if they are unable to adapt?
You also say that RM should play pragmatically, until we have the players to play the way he wants.
You then state that you don't think we should sell the players above. If that's the case, and they are unable to play RMs way, you must think that we should sack RM. Is that right?
If you don't think we should sack RM, and you don't think we should sell these players, what is your next idea?
I can only see 2 options...
Expect RM to change, to suit these players.
OR, keep these players and play them in the reserves or loan them out? What would be the point in that? |
So you want a dedicated thread to these repetitive and silly questions yet continuing to ask them on all the other ones too?
Where did I say “most”?
This is going to get very tiring of you keep making up things that I’ve said. Adding words and sentences to completely change the context. Stop. I told you very clearly that I won’t allow you to dictate or frame my points so trying to sneak them past won’t wash, I’ll pull it up every single time. I’m very aware of my points and what I’ve said, I won’t have you changing it to help your weak point.
Happy to have a debate with you but this constant lying isn’t going to get you anywhere with me.
You are asking me the same questions over and over and over again. How many more times do you want them answered?
We have loads of players not technically gifted enough to play this system. I have told you what I think will happen, once the board feel out Championship status is under threat they will pull the plug, what that looks like is anyone’s guess.
It could be a sacking of the manager, it could be instructions to be more sensible with tactics until we get the required players in which case the players you pretended I wanted sold suddenly come back into the picture as viable options.
Bennet is a great defender at this level, but would be a liability as a tiki taka defender at this level. Prime example.
If Martin is incapable of adapting to situations after the instruction to reign it in temporarily then yes, getting someone in capable of that is certainly an option. But that’s incredibly hypothetical, Russ may be perfectly able to adapt.
There is no need to rapid fire silly hypothetical questions. My stance is crystal clear to any sane individual. | |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:29 - Aug 19 with 3446 views | jackrmee |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:19 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
So you want a dedicated thread to these repetitive and silly questions yet continuing to ask them on all the other ones too?
Where did I say “most”?
This is going to get very tiring of you keep making up things that I’ve said. Adding words and sentences to completely change the context. Stop. I told you very clearly that I won’t allow you to dictate or frame my points so trying to sneak them past won’t wash, I’ll pull it up every single time. I’m very aware of my points and what I’ve said, I won’t have you changing it to help your weak point.
Happy to have a debate with you but this constant lying isn’t going to get you anywhere with me.
You are asking me the same questions over and over and over again. How many more times do you want them answered?
We have loads of players not technically gifted enough to play this system. I have told you what I think will happen, once the board feel out Championship status is under threat they will pull the plug, what that looks like is anyone’s guess.
It could be a sacking of the manager, it could be instructions to be more sensible with tactics until we get the required players in which case the players you pretended I wanted sold suddenly come back into the picture as viable options.
Bennet is a great defender at this level, but would be a liability as a tiki taka defender at this level. Prime example.
If Martin is incapable of adapting to situations after the instruction to reign it in temporarily then yes, getting someone in capable of that is certainly an option. But that’s incredibly hypothetical, Russ may be perfectly able to adapt.
There is no need to rapid fire silly hypothetical questions. My stance is crystal clear to any sane individual. |
Well if it's not "most", that would suggest that MOST of our players can adapt or play in this system, which is my point, which you are effin arguing with!!!!!
So by the post you made here, we only disagree on one point.
You believe that Russell Martin may be able to adapt or rein in his tactics, as our players are unable to.
I believe that our players are able to adapt or we are able to bring players in to play in Russel Martin's system and he won't be asked or expected to adapt or change his tactics.
2 simple differences of opinion. Happy days. Lets just leave it at that. | |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:36 - Aug 19 with 3430 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:29 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
Well if it's not "most", that would suggest that MOST of our players can adapt or play in this system, which is my point, which you are effin arguing with!!!!!
So by the post you made here, we only disagree on one point.
You believe that Russell Martin may be able to adapt or rein in his tactics, as our players are unable to.
I believe that our players are able to adapt or we are able to bring players in to play in Russel Martin's system and he won't be asked or expected to adapt or change his tactics.
2 simple differences of opinion. Happy days. Lets just leave it at that. |
Most of our starting team is what I said. Others in the squad may be able to adapt, Dhanda for one, but he’s not good enough generally so it’s pointless anyway.
Being “able” to play a style and being good enough to play a style successfully aren’t the same thing. My list only covers some of those not technically good enough to play Martins way, there are others that are technically good enough but not good enough overall.
Bennet isn’t technically good enough to play Martins way, but he’s certainly good enough to play another system.
Being able to adapt your tactics isn’t the same as a players ability to adapt their skillset. One is written with clear historical blueprints that simply need copying and the other is physical, skill based attributes. They aren’t the same thing.
If you think Martin instructing his players to play more direct and less in their own defensive third is akin to a player without very good passing ability suddenly being able to pass extremely well is the same level of adaptation then I really don’t know what to say. | |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:46 - Aug 19 with 3421 views | jackrmee |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:36 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Most of our starting team is what I said. Others in the squad may be able to adapt, Dhanda for one, but he’s not good enough generally so it’s pointless anyway.
Being “able” to play a style and being good enough to play a style successfully aren’t the same thing. My list only covers some of those not technically good enough to play Martins way, there are others that are technically good enough but not good enough overall.
Bennet isn’t technically good enough to play Martins way, but he’s certainly good enough to play another system.
Being able to adapt your tactics isn’t the same as a players ability to adapt their skillset. One is written with clear historical blueprints that simply need copying and the other is physical, skill based attributes. They aren’t the same thing.
If you think Martin instructing his players to play more direct and less in their own defensive third is akin to a player without very good passing ability suddenly being able to pass extremely well is the same level of adaptation then I really don’t know what to say. |
So for you, it's RM who needs to change?
The players you feel cannot play in RM style, should not be sold, but instead keep them until RM goes, or changes his whole philosophy? | |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:52 - Aug 19 with 3394 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:46 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
So for you, it's RM who needs to change?
The players you feel cannot play in RM style, should not be sold, but instead keep them until RM goes, or changes his whole philosophy? |
I’ve made my stance clear, not sure why you keep reframing it.
I’ll state it for the hundredth time
- we do not have the technical group required to play this way
- we should adapt our style until we can bring in these players
- if we cannot bring in these players then Martin needs to adapt longer term
- if he cannot adapt and our Championship status is under threat then he will be sacked
What to do with players that are not technically good enough to play this style but good enough to play another is not for me to say. It’s a case by case basis. Someone young like Cullen I’d keep/loan, someone like Bennet I would sell due to his age and salary.
You are asking broad questions that have answers based on variables. All I can do is give you hypothetical examples, which you don’t seem to like. | |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 18:17 - Aug 19 with 3367 views | Whiterockin |
I'm glad you two have your own thread, the rest of us know to ignore it. |  | | |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 18:19 - Aug 19 with 3356 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Don’t blame you.
How someone can read the same answers to the same questions God only knows.
Must be like an interview being stuck on repeat. He will run out of steam eventually I’m sure when he realised I won’t allow him to create his own narrative with my words. | |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 19:17 - Aug 19 with 3274 views | Catullus |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 17:46 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
So for you, it's RM who needs to change?
The players you feel cannot play in RM style, should not be sold, but instead keep them until RM goes, or changes his whole philosophy? |
The new thread saying there will be a clear out for new players to be brought in should be good news to Dr P's ears. Martin wants players who can do what he wants, hurrah, the squad will be adapted.
Maybe the Cooper acolytes can give it a rest now. The players not good enough will be moved on and will be replaced by technically better players, well players of Martins choosing anyway. Maybe certain people will say they are not good enough when they arrive?
Interesting thought that 'the squad' isn't good enough but only a few names were picked out. Also interesting that the players shouldn't be sold. A cynic might think that one of Coopers great supporters on here was just determined to denigrate what is happening and push for a switch back to 'pragmatic' football? Though what is pragmatic about a style that will drive fans away from the stadium I'm not quite sure. The owners want more bums on seats, not fewer which may well be why they made this change.
I'm not revisiting this, previous experience tells me it's pointless as jackrmee, you might find out. I'd suggest walking away now actually! |  |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 19:23 - Aug 19 with 3258 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 19:17 - Aug 19 by Catullus |
The new thread saying there will be a clear out for new players to be brought in should be good news to Dr P's ears. Martin wants players who can do what he wants, hurrah, the squad will be adapted.
Maybe the Cooper acolytes can give it a rest now. The players not good enough will be moved on and will be replaced by technically better players, well players of Martins choosing anyway. Maybe certain people will say they are not good enough when they arrive?
Interesting thought that 'the squad' isn't good enough but only a few names were picked out. Also interesting that the players shouldn't be sold. A cynic might think that one of Coopers great supporters on here was just determined to denigrate what is happening and push for a switch back to 'pragmatic' football? Though what is pragmatic about a style that will drive fans away from the stadium I'm not quite sure. The owners want more bums on seats, not fewer which may well be why they made this change.
I'm not revisiting this, previous experience tells me it's pointless as jackrmee, you might find out. I'd suggest walking away now actually! |
Who has said they didn’t think there would be a turnover in playing staff, I fully expected it.
That doesn’t change the fact that I don’t believe we should set up to get slaughtered until they come in though.
What do you mean “only a few could be picked out”, I was asked to name players I didn’t think were technically good enough to play Martins system. I went to the last starting line up and named 6 of the 11, that’s more than half the side.
I have always been an advocate of what many describe as “good” football. My point is and always has been that we haven’t the squad to do it successfully, that was proven by the fact Potter finished 10th and a style more suited to the squad got us back to back play off finishes.
You are one of the worst on here for cowardly pretending people have said something they haven’t and also have an agenda even though it’s usually a point of view you lack the intellect to understand.
I fully agree with your stance to walk away. You have no chance against me with the dishonest tools you bring to debate, they will get torn to shreds immediately. | |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 19:31 - Aug 19 with 3255 views | jack247 |
I don’t think that’s a fairly phrased question. I know what you’re getting at, but we’ve got plenty of good players who just aren’t suited to Martins style.
Anyone who slows play down when they are in possession or doesn’t make the right runs when a teammate is, may find themselves up against it. That doesn’t make them bad players, some are more suited to rigid formations where they have to stay in position and win their battles.
Up front, the striker is going to need to be able to hold the ball up and act as a pivot. That’s certainly not Cullens game, though I’d love to keep him as an impact sub. The wide players are going to have to be able to run at defenders, play off the striker and act as fullbacks when necessary. I’m not surprised Garrick has been loaned. | | | |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 19:39 - Aug 19 with 3241 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 19:31 - Aug 19 by jack247 |
I don’t think that’s a fairly phrased question. I know what you’re getting at, but we’ve got plenty of good players who just aren’t suited to Martins style.
Anyone who slows play down when they are in possession or doesn’t make the right runs when a teammate is, may find themselves up against it. That doesn’t make them bad players, some are more suited to rigid formations where they have to stay in position and win their battles.
Up front, the striker is going to need to be able to hold the ball up and act as a pivot. That’s certainly not Cullens game, though I’d love to keep him as an impact sub. The wide players are going to have to be able to run at defenders, play off the striker and act as fullbacks when necessary. I’m not surprised Garrick has been loaned. |
Spot on, the exact point I was trying to get through to him.
Bennet is a fantastic defender, but he’s no tiki taka defender. Cullen is a striker of real promise, but he will never be a striker to fit into Martins system, he’s a poacher.
So them not being players than can fit into the system currently being imposed doesn’t mean I advocate for them all to be sold, far from it. I hope Cullen stays long term if he can get some successful loan spells under his belt.
Someone like Bennett could be sold under the right circumstances, he’s our highest earner and the wrong side of 30 now, but we would have to find a buyer and a replacement. These things aren’t easy. | |
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| Which players are not good enough to play for RM? on 21:53 - Aug 19 with 3095 views | vetchonian |
the problem here is the compariosn being made to the "MArtinez" revolution...
Under Roberto we didnt pass the ball much across the back four.
When he took over as manager he knew the majority of the squad and thier abilities and limitations.
He wanted to play attacking passing football so he turned to Leon and switched him froma awinger to be a player for the centre halves to give the ball to rather than than "hoof " it up field he then added a fullback who could attack and link with this ball distributor and also a pacey winger it was Ian Anderson origianlly who joined Forest before Dyer and a "lazy" forward in Scotland ...I remember many fans salgging hom off as he didnt run around and that was because he was there to pick the ball up and lay it off bef re gettin g into a receiving positon to cosre or make space for he likes of Bodde or Pratley coming through from imdfield to score.
Martinez's scouting network found Ash who as well as being a sound defender could ping a Hoddlesque pass for those of you who dont know Glenn Hoddle was a Spurs midfielder known for his long range passing...All this started in Lg 1 and as
leon has said in many interviews team sthey palyed against in Lg 1 did know what was happening as they werre used to the tradiotiaonl "kick and rush" normanlly played at that level. Martinez did well in his firatr champoinhip season but his " you score 1 Ill score 2 philosphy coulndt hold up against well drillled teams in the champiosnhip. Each manager after wards tweaked the style giving differnt suceeses and along the way we lost the "Swansea Way" which in essecnce was finding the "bargain talent" to fit into our playing style.
It is a lot harder to recreate the Martinez revolution in the Championship than Lg1...so I wish Martin luck...in the Championship there is a differnt class/level of player and the managers iwll have a different approach as the rewards from finsihing in the top 6 are great with a chance to get to the Promised Land
I hope RM gets it right but I beleive he will find it harder to make the change as he did last season | |
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