| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free 16:25 - Aug 21 with 8343 views | FDC |
Funny old world. |  | | |  |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 16:44 - Aug 22 with 1477 views | FDC |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 16:36 - Aug 22 by NW5Hoop |
I'm not celebrating anything. But the rule of law is undermined when you pick one offence and say: right, he broke the law, and did so seriously, but we're going to let him off. The rule of law is a more important principle to protect than, arguably, any other in a democratic society.
And there is no right of an ordinary citizen not to be punished for breaking the law. |
That still avoids the issue of the disproportionate sentencing, and mistreatment prior to trial i.e. the overtly politicised process of this case.
"The rule of law is a more important principle to protect than, arguably, any other in a democratic society."
I think this gets at something very interesting actually, although maybe a bit of a tangent for this thread. But I would contend that the rule of law is more important than any other principle in *our* society - not necessarily a democratic society, unless we're very clear about what we mean by "democratic" i.e. people often use "democratic" as short hand for "societies built upon a western liberalised market political economy". Which is not the same thing as "democracy". And yes, law is very important, not least because it codifies private property rights. | | | |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 16:48 - Aug 22 with 1473 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 16:36 - Aug 22 by NW5Hoop |
I'm not celebrating anything. But the rule of law is undermined when you pick one offence and say: right, he broke the law, and did so seriously, but we're going to let him off. The rule of law is a more important principle to protect than, arguably, any other in a democratic society.
And there is no right of an ordinary citizen not to be punished for breaking the law. |
I would agree if the laws we have were a reflection of the democratic will of the people.
However the elite do what the hell they like and then come up with the "rule of law" stuff when it suits them and tend to ignore it when it doesn't (for example how many bankers have been prosecuted so far after the blatant fraud that has been carried out).
So I'm happy to judge things on a moral basis and seeing as the US military are evil scumbags I'm going to side with the bloke who let us all know a few of the illegal things that they've been up to (which absolutely no one will be prosecuted for). |  | | |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 17:30 - Aug 22 with 1441 views | Brightonhoop |
Interesting thread with some interesting intelligent thought, along with the usual reactionaries...
I've not seen the 11,000 odd documents he released but one confirmed a helicopter gunship killing a group on the ground, Reuters journalists among them, and the crew celebrating. It's a political sentence clearly. Anders Brevek for context murdered 77 including children, albeit in a western democracy outside the US, and got 21 years. And Blair and Bush remain at liberty despite Genocide...funny old world indeed. |  | | |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 17:39 - Aug 22 with 1437 views | SomersetHoops |
Governments and the laws they pass lose all credibility when they themselves don't adhere to them. If they don't why should anybody else. What the documents Manning passed on demonstrated were the lies and misdeeds of the American government and its forces. For the laws governments pass to mean anything they should applaud people who draw attention to the times that they break them and broadcast lies to their citizens and put them right. What this heinous sentence means is that anyone who exposes such lies and wrongdoing will pay a high price. Its only one step removed from having him killed by the CIA, but that would not serve the purpose of preventing other people risking exposing government wrongdoing. Is America a democracy? Of course it isn't and this episode underlines that more than anything and the fact that their government is riddled with corruption and their armed forces are full of people who are gung-ho and put no value on civilian lives. |  |
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| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 18:50 - Aug 22 with 1405 views | WarfieldHoop |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 16:33 - Aug 22 by jamois |
If Bradley Chelsea decided that the military he/she signed up for, and the country whose rights he thought were worth protecting, had in fact deceived him and billions around the World and was actually an insidiously corrupt imperialist, should he have resigned from the military first and then leaked his documents? Would that have made it any more acceptable to you? If not, what should he have done? |
The fact that he was a serving soldier is mostly irrelevant but my point was that I'm sure the US forces make their policies on classified information clear to them and I'm sure they're supposed to take some sort of oath when they sign up. What should he have done? Not leaked highly classified military communications into the public domain. | | | |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 18:51 - Aug 22 with 1405 views | zicoshoops |
I know the world's a wicked old place, but sometimes you can't help smiling.
Totally non-PC, but...............
It may be as simple as one or two explanations to the whole story.
1.
The Fella/Sort has always been a female.
In which case how could she have been expected to keep a secret? Never mind eleven thousand of them.
2.
He's been told he's looking at sharing a Cell with 'Bubba' and 'Big Errol,' both weighing in excess of 300lbs and neither has clapped eyes on a young lad for the past 20 years.
So he's says he's now a 'Sort,' ends up doing 35 years in a women's prison.
Result?...................................Happy days.
There is a TV series, book, and probably a movie in there somewhere.
What's going on?
We should be told.
Sort it out. | | | |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 19:06 - Aug 22 with 1389 views | hoopstilidie |
"I would like to be treated as a woman"
Not the exact words I would be using before being locked in a building with thousands of rapists for 35 years. |  |
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| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 20:30 - Aug 22 with 1365 views | MrSheen |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 17:30 - Aug 22 by Brightonhoop |
Interesting thread with some interesting intelligent thought, along with the usual reactionaries...
I've not seen the 11,000 odd documents he released but one confirmed a helicopter gunship killing a group on the ground, Reuters journalists among them, and the crew celebrating. It's a political sentence clearly. Anders Brevek for context murdered 77 including children, albeit in a western democracy outside the US, and got 21 years. And Blair and Bush remain at liberty despite Genocide...funny old world indeed. |
Genocide? Really?
Genocide n. deliberate extermination of a race , nation, etc (OED) |  | | |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 20:48 - Aug 22 with 1351 views | FDC |
You're a fcking idiot. | | | |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 22:18 - Aug 22 with 1318 views | GloryHunter |
I have every sympathy with Bradley Manning. Including his wish for gender reorientation. But if he wants to change his name to Chelsea then he's got to expect a few eyebrows being raised on this board. |  | | |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 22:39 - Aug 22 with 1308 views | TheBlob |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 22:18 - Aug 22 by GloryHunter |
I have every sympathy with Bradley Manning. Including his wish for gender reorientation. But if he wants to change his name to Chelsea then he's got to expect a few eyebrows being raised on this board. |
Assuming his new persona has eyebrows. |  |
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| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 23:09 - Aug 22 with 1296 views | TheBlob |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 18:50 - Aug 22 by WarfieldHoop |
The fact that he was a serving soldier is mostly irrelevant but my point was that I'm sure the US forces make their policies on classified information clear to them and I'm sure they're supposed to take some sort of oath when they sign up. What should he have done? Not leaked highly classified military communications into the public domain. |
Since Britain has become America's streetwalker from the end of the last war,British intelligence operatives could be seriously compromised by the disclosure of "sensitive" material.I would consider Manning,and others of his ilk,very dangerous.It's a murky business "diplomacy",but we all live and die by it. | |
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| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 23:27 - Aug 22 with 1284 views | HollowayRanger |
secrets are secrets for a reason
some good some bad
if you cant keep a secret dont sign the secrets from and dont work in that department
only time will tell as to what damage has been done by manning
and anyone choosing the name chelsea does deserve hanging ,i even had to dump a sure thing in a club because her name was chelsea |  |
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| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 04:54 - Aug 23 with 1259 views | Westy75 |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 17:30 - Aug 22 by Brightonhoop |
Interesting thread with some interesting intelligent thought, along with the usual reactionaries...
I've not seen the 11,000 odd documents he released but one confirmed a helicopter gunship killing a group on the ground, Reuters journalists among them, and the crew celebrating. It's a political sentence clearly. Anders Brevek for context murdered 77 including children, albeit in a western democracy outside the US, and got 21 years. And Blair and Bush remain at liberty despite Genocide...funny old world indeed. |
Indeed, watch the full tape on wiki leaks and then say it should have been kept secret. It's seriously chilling stuff. And the US is doing the same thing on a regular basis with drone strikes in Pakistan. |  | | |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 08:38 - Aug 23 with 1230 views | Monahoop |
Expect a Hollywood blockbuster on this subject once Obama's tenure as President has come to an end. Can't imagine it would make good watching though. A bit like that yawnfest film about Nixongate, All The Presidents Men, I think it was. |  |
| There aint half been some clever bastards. |
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| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 12:21 - Aug 23 with 1197 views | themodfather |
manning or is it miss CHELSEA now? will be free when he wears his dress etc
did nixon go to jail for watergate? | | | |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 13:32 - Aug 23 with 1188 views | JAPRANGERS |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 12:21 - Aug 23 by themodfather |
manning or is it miss CHELSEA now? will be free when he wears his dress etc
did nixon go to jail for watergate? |
Considering what will probably being awaiting him inside, calling himself Arsenal would be more appropriate surely! How suicidal for him to announce he wants to be treated as a woman. He'll get his wish night after night....... |  | | |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 13:37 - Aug 23 with 1182 views | Pommyhoop |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 13:32 - Aug 23 by JAPRANGERS |
Considering what will probably being awaiting him inside, calling himself Arsenal would be more appropriate surely! How suicidal for him to announce he wants to be treated as a woman. He'll get his wish night after night....... |
Chealsea Manning
Proof that snitches always en up as bitches.Yo!
Nice use of the copy and paste function by me.. |  |
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| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 13:47 - Aug 23 with 1175 views | Pommyhoop |
| Manning = 35 years; Mubarek = free on 08:38 - Aug 23 by Monahoop |
Expect a Hollywood blockbuster on this subject once Obama's tenure as President has come to an end. Can't imagine it would make good watching though. A bit like that yawnfest film about Nixongate, All The Presidents Men, I think it was. |
Frost/Nixon that film about Frost 'doing' tricky Dickie in a series of interviews was a good film
The fella who played Cloughie in The Damned played David Frost.
Good filum. | |
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