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Mr Johnson thanks people on all sides for "finding the philosophers stone" to get a deal.
He adds: "This deal above all means certainty, for the aviation industry, the hauliers... the police, the border forces, and all those that keep us safe.
"It means certainty for our scientists who will be able to work together on great collective projects.
"But above all it means certainty for business."
A great believer in taking anything you like to wherever you want to.
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 17:49 - Jan 1 by ItchySphincter
That’s exactly how I feel. Let them have their Brexit, I didn’t want it and can accept the EU needs reform but I’ve also accepted it since the result of the referendum. I don’t see why I should have to accept the blaming of remoaners for the problems that they’ve caused and cries of democracy every five minutes when that’s the last thing they’re interested in. I feel strongly about the way they’ve weakened us as a country and the opportunities they’ve taken away from my children so why should I shut up when they start their nonsense just because they don’t like being reminded of what they’ve done. They know deep down but can never admit it as the truth is ugly.
What opportunities have been taken away from your children ?
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 19:06 - Jan 1 by ItchySphincter
I don’t think that’s a serious question but if it is maybe you need this Brexit thing explaining to you.
I think I'll pass on the explanation thanks, if I haven't got it after 4 years, I never will, just as you will never get the leave vote.
But hey, you carry on with the doom, gloom and negativity, I sincerely hope your kids have a great future, as I'm sure they will, although a little bit of positivity would help.
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 10:52 - Jan 2 by Whiterockin
As Stealers Wheel said.
Clowns to the left of me! Jokers to the right! Here I am stuck in the middle with you.
Ah dear old Gerry Rafferty.Never wrote a bad song.
Thanks for acknowledging my point. You are smart.
I feel physically sick to see the nation of my wife ,kids and grandkids insulted by these two .They are great people,so are my neighbours and most in our village here so yeah I get rather indignant. The term immigrant vis a vis Wales is a term of abuse.
You cannot immigrate within a country and our country is the United Kingdom and always will be.
Why the working class of the valleys voted to bite the hand that feeds baffles me,as without the EU ,Wales would be poorer than the dark end of Palermo.
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:00 - Jan 2 by onehunglow
Ah dear old Gerry Rafferty.Never wrote a bad song.
Thanks for acknowledging my point. You are smart.
I feel physically sick to see the nation of my wife ,kids and grandkids insulted by these two .They are great people,so are my neighbours and most in our village here so yeah I get rather indignant. The term immigrant vis a vis Wales is a term of abuse.
You cannot immigrate within a country and our country is the United Kingdom and always will be.
Why the working class of the valleys voted to bite the hand that feeds baffles me,as without the EU ,Wales would be poorer than the dark end of Palermo.
"Why the working class of the valleys voted to bite the hand that feeds baffles me,as without the EU ,Wales would be poorer than the dark end of Palermo."
Speaking to many who live in "the valleys" it appears one of the main reasons was the huge influx of European workers entering the work market.
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:25 - Jan 2 by Whiterockin
"Why the working class of the valleys voted to bite the hand that feeds baffles me,as without the EU ,Wales would be poorer than the dark end of Palermo."
Speaking to many who live in "the valleys" it appears one of the main reasons was the huge influx of European workers entering the work market.
Thanks for that. Not sure the valleys were places for fruit pickers or indeed many of the jobs British wont do because ,basically, it's back breaking work for low money.
People in east Europe are very willing to work hard and end money home whereas many of us are not.
How many of our young kids would work in a sweaty Asian sweat box to end money home to help feed a family and provide the very basic of life.
Frankly,I doubt the economy was uppermost in many who voted to leave.
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:37 - Jan 2 by onehunglow
Thanks for that. Not sure the valleys were places for fruit pickers or indeed many of the jobs British wont do because ,basically, it's back breaking work for low money.
People in east Europe are very willing to work hard and end money home whereas many of us are not.
How many of our young kids would work in a sweaty Asian sweat box to end money home to help feed a family and provide the very basic of life.
Frankly,I doubt the economy was uppermost in many who voted to leave.
No but there were many who came in who took a lot of the low paid "starter jobs" within commuting distance. As in hotels, pubs, restaurants, cleaning, automotive and laboring ect. Plus many came into the building trade brickies, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, plasterers and tilers ect. They worked for a cheaper rate in the skilled jobs and removed the possibility of progression for youngsters. Many lived in cramped conditions and sent money home. I'm not getting involved in the rights or wrongs of this, just pointing out why many voted the way they did.
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The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:05 - Jan 2 with 1259 views
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:02 - Jan 2 by Whiterockin
No but there were many who came in who took a lot of the low paid "starter jobs" within commuting distance. As in hotels, pubs, restaurants, cleaning, automotive and laboring ect. Plus many came into the building trade brickies, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, plasterers and tilers ect. They worked for a cheaper rate in the skilled jobs and removed the possibility of progression for youngsters. Many lived in cramped conditions and sent money home. I'm not getting involved in the rights or wrongs of this, just pointing out why many voted the way they did.
It' s a fair riposte and I thank you for that. You really do have the capacity to comment on a topic rather the individual.
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:05 - Jan 2 by onehunglow
It' s a fair riposte and I thank you for that. You really do have the capacity to comment on a topic rather the individual.
Not all can do that
Thank you. Some may thing I single out people to "have a go" this is not the case. As I have mentioned to you before I travel the length and breadth of the county and talk and listen to people. Some I agree with some I don't, but I do take note of what they say and try to understand their reasoning.
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The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 13:15 - Jan 2 with 1234 views
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:20 - Jan 2 by Whiterockin
Thank you. Some may thing I single out people to "have a go" this is not the case. As I have mentioned to you before I travel the length and breadth of the county and talk and listen to people. Some I agree with some I don't, but I do take note of what they say and try to understand their reasoning.
which brings credit to you for that.
I am far less tolerant these days but less inclined to confront but only marginally so.
It's incredible to see so many totally uninformed people on here 5 years on. All this 'well done Boris, remainers said it couldn't be done, nobody can say it's a bad deal until we see what happens'... just total b*llocks. We KNOW it is a bad deal. It's a million miles from what those conmen promised in 2016. "Exact same benefits", "they need us more than we need them", "no downsides", "more money".
No honest person can pretend that Brexit has been anything other than a total mess. It's cost hundreds of billions (estimated around £200 billion...more than all our contributions to the EU). It's removed all of our rights and opportunities in Europe - no longer can any British person just up and move to Amsterdam, Paris, any German city etc etc. Loss of rights in 30 countries in fact. British people won't even be able to apply for most European jobs and for the rest they'll be at the back of the queue with employers having to prove they couldn't find an EU citizen. The most severe weakening of a passport in history, ever. Then there's the 'small' fact that it doesn't even cover 80% of our economy and any rollover FTA's we've done don't come close to covering the loss. Oh and there's now more red tape for business. I mean....it's a total f*cking c*ck up. Yet our media and die hard leavers simply are unable to tell the truth. Just you watch Scotland leave because of it within the decade too (especially if Labour get into power as they've already promised a Scottish independence referendum). Dreadful in every way. No point lying about it.
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The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 18:31 - Jan 2 with 1156 views
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 16:08 - Jan 2 by deanscfc
It's incredible to see so many totally uninformed people on here 5 years on. All this 'well done Boris, remainers said it couldn't be done, nobody can say it's a bad deal until we see what happens'... just total b*llocks. We KNOW it is a bad deal. It's a million miles from what those conmen promised in 2016. "Exact same benefits", "they need us more than we need them", "no downsides", "more money".
No honest person can pretend that Brexit has been anything other than a total mess. It's cost hundreds of billions (estimated around £200 billion...more than all our contributions to the EU). It's removed all of our rights and opportunities in Europe - no longer can any British person just up and move to Amsterdam, Paris, any German city etc etc. Loss of rights in 30 countries in fact. British people won't even be able to apply for most European jobs and for the rest they'll be at the back of the queue with employers having to prove they couldn't find an EU citizen. The most severe weakening of a passport in history, ever. Then there's the 'small' fact that it doesn't even cover 80% of our economy and any rollover FTA's we've done don't come close to covering the loss. Oh and there's now more red tape for business. I mean....it's a total f*cking c*ck up. Yet our media and die hard leavers simply are unable to tell the truth. Just you watch Scotland leave because of it within the decade too (especially if Labour get into power as they've already promised a Scottish independence referendum). Dreadful in every way. No point lying about it.
Welcome back. We’ve missed your chirpy optimism Deano.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:02 - Jan 2 by Whiterockin
No but there were many who came in who took a lot of the low paid "starter jobs" within commuting distance. As in hotels, pubs, restaurants, cleaning, automotive and laboring ect. Plus many came into the building trade brickies, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, plasterers and tilers ect. They worked for a cheaper rate in the skilled jobs and removed the possibility of progression for youngsters. Many lived in cramped conditions and sent money home. I'm not getting involved in the rights or wrongs of this, just pointing out why many voted the way they did.
I think there’s a lot of substance in what your articulated. Down here it’s factories, meat processing plants and food factories; some of the companies have arrangements with agencies and exclusively employ migrant workers. Locals don’t want to work in some of these places, but they also resent the migrant workers who do. We’ve got people in the UK who feel very entitled, don’t want to work, don’t want to contribute, don’t like seeing others get on but are expect to take without putting anything back in. Maybe Brexit will change that.
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The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 20:16 - Jan 2 with 1129 views
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 19:11 - Jan 2 by majorraglan
I think there’s a lot of substance in what your articulated. Down here it’s factories, meat processing plants and food factories; some of the companies have arrangements with agencies and exclusively employ migrant workers. Locals don’t want to work in some of these places, but they also resent the migrant workers who do. We’ve got people in the UK who feel very entitled, don’t want to work, don’t want to contribute, don’t like seeing others get on but are expect to take without putting anything back in. Maybe Brexit will change that.
Locals don't want to work. There you have it.
Foreigners do. Being kept by the nanny state isn't for them.
Many of ours do not want to get educated,stuck in or take a risk. They do.
The Building industry,NHS and farmwork would be hammered. Convince me our young beauts would work 12 hours per day,picking cabbages on a Fenland farm or a plumber prepared to work all hours at a rate that is not a joke.
The stats are pretty clear that EU citizens put in more economically than they took out. There may have been a very small lowering of wages at the lowest end of the scale due to immigration, but it was low (again, as shown by studies), and the costs of brexit dramatically outweigh anything like that. It's very sad from all angles really. Nobody can seriously spin this as a success. They can try, but facts and detail will always get in the way. Even the sovereignty argument isn't helped by this deal because if the UK diverges much from EU rules then the EU can impost tariffs. Again, just a total c*ck up in every way and that's what happens when things are missold based on undeliverable lies.
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The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 21:14 - Jan 2 with 1095 views
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 19:11 - Jan 2 by majorraglan
I think there’s a lot of substance in what your articulated. Down here it’s factories, meat processing plants and food factories; some of the companies have arrangements with agencies and exclusively employ migrant workers. Locals don’t want to work in some of these places, but they also resent the migrant workers who do. We’ve got people in the UK who feel very entitled, don’t want to work, don’t want to contribute, don’t like seeing others get on but are expect to take without putting anything back in. Maybe Brexit will change that.
We’ve just got to go with it now and hope for the best.
People on either side aren’t going to change their minds for the foreseeable.
Henning Wehn (the German comedian) put it beautifully on Newsnight:
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The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 02:09 - Jan 3 with 1038 views
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 02:09 - Jan 3 by Highjack
What's stopping you work in Europe?
Good question. And the reason it's a good question is because the British media did an absolutely terrible (in my opinion deliberately), terrible job of explaining what was also being lost with the removal of free movement rights.
With free movement, all British people had the rights to 30 countries of their own continent. That's the EU 27 countries plus 3 EEA countries. We had the right to live and work there as if that land was our own. All you needed was to have sufficient funds to look after yourself and not to be a serious criminal/security risk to the country. If you were a young Brit and wanted to learn German for example, you could make the move, find an apartment, and look for jobs working in a bar, in a supermarket, doing labouring etc etc...pretty much any job you wanted. Same in any of those EU countries. You could also apply for pretty much any job in those 30 countries online or while there.
With the loss of Free Movement that right has gone. As a non-EU citizen, you have no rights. You can only hope to get into one of those countries via a type of visa, if it is on offer to someone with your educational background/skills. So for me, I can no longer work in any job throughout the rest of my own continent like before...but I may be able to get a job working in IT, because I have a degree in Computing. But, here's the problem...The vast majority of jobs in the EU are only even open to EU citizens. If you go on a job board and look for jobs in say Germany, or the Netherlands, the vast majority of jobs will say something like 'applicant must be an EU citizen, both now and in future (the last bit was basically a 'Brits need not apply'). In the last year or two, I must have applied for at least 100 jobs in the EU, and every time I either got rejected with no reason, or I got given a reason alluding to the politics of the situation. I could however get an IT job here in the UK easily enough.
Now, of course some jobs are open to non-EU citizens. Most aren't but some are. But then there's another catch. Many countries have a rule where even if a job is open to applicants from anywhere in the world, an employer must be able to prove that before employing a non-EU citizen, they could not find any EU citizen that could do the job. The EU is a single market of hundreds of millions of people - in the vast majority of cases they are going to be able to find someone else who could do the job before a Brit.
So that's that. Not only are most British people now not even eligible for jobs throughout 30 countries of their own continent, even if they are eligible, they are at the back of the queue and really unlikely to get it. So the dreams of having the life experience of working both away yet relatively close to home alongside the canals of Amsterdam are pretty much gone...same in Berlin, Cologne, Brussels etc etc. Also, the days of a youngster being able to go and work in a bar in Spain or Portugal, or maybe even work as a ski instructor...all very likely gone (unless somehow a country changes their rules which is really unlikely). When I speak to leavers they seem surprised that it's not 'as easy as filling out a paper form'. No, it's really, really not.
So anyway, we genuinely did just give away our rights to freely live and work throughout our own continent...not just for ourselves, but for our kids and grandkids. And to me, that is a massive shame. I've been lucky enough to travel through various countries of Europe and I have good friends in some European cities. It genuinely hurts to know that there is now a big barrier between us, and whereas before I could consider the idea of living near them for a while (or more if I like it), now I cannot. Some people might still manage it if they are particularly qualified or skilled in their field, but the chances are really, really slim in my opinion, and that will be the case for years now. And it's probably no surprise that Brits don't have the best reputation in Europe anymore after all the trash talk from our press. I was actually due to fly and just go after a year of unsuccessful online applications from here...wanted to be with some mates out there who funnily enough I had got supporting the Swans...they mentioned they could sort me out with some casual job to tie me over... and then the corona second wave hit - flight was cancelled and the travel ban came in. Screwed in every way. And yeah I am really angry about it. But after weeks of feeling depressed I'm trying not to think about that now. Oh well, another 4 months of isolation in lockdown here and not a f'n clue what to do next. But hopefully the Swans keep winning.
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The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 09:27 - Jan 3 with 992 views
The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 03:32 - Jan 3 by deanscfc
Good question. And the reason it's a good question is because the British media did an absolutely terrible (in my opinion deliberately), terrible job of explaining what was also being lost with the removal of free movement rights.
With free movement, all British people had the rights to 30 countries of their own continent. That's the EU 27 countries plus 3 EEA countries. We had the right to live and work there as if that land was our own. All you needed was to have sufficient funds to look after yourself and not to be a serious criminal/security risk to the country. If you were a young Brit and wanted to learn German for example, you could make the move, find an apartment, and look for jobs working in a bar, in a supermarket, doing labouring etc etc...pretty much any job you wanted. Same in any of those EU countries. You could also apply for pretty much any job in those 30 countries online or while there.
With the loss of Free Movement that right has gone. As a non-EU citizen, you have no rights. You can only hope to get into one of those countries via a type of visa, if it is on offer to someone with your educational background/skills. So for me, I can no longer work in any job throughout the rest of my own continent like before...but I may be able to get a job working in IT, because I have a degree in Computing. But, here's the problem...The vast majority of jobs in the EU are only even open to EU citizens. If you go on a job board and look for jobs in say Germany, or the Netherlands, the vast majority of jobs will say something like 'applicant must be an EU citizen, both now and in future (the last bit was basically a 'Brits need not apply'). In the last year or two, I must have applied for at least 100 jobs in the EU, and every time I either got rejected with no reason, or I got given a reason alluding to the politics of the situation. I could however get an IT job here in the UK easily enough.
Now, of course some jobs are open to non-EU citizens. Most aren't but some are. But then there's another catch. Many countries have a rule where even if a job is open to applicants from anywhere in the world, an employer must be able to prove that before employing a non-EU citizen, they could not find any EU citizen that could do the job. The EU is a single market of hundreds of millions of people - in the vast majority of cases they are going to be able to find someone else who could do the job before a Brit.
So that's that. Not only are most British people now not even eligible for jobs throughout 30 countries of their own continent, even if they are eligible, they are at the back of the queue and really unlikely to get it. So the dreams of having the life experience of working both away yet relatively close to home alongside the canals of Amsterdam are pretty much gone...same in Berlin, Cologne, Brussels etc etc. Also, the days of a youngster being able to go and work in a bar in Spain or Portugal, or maybe even work as a ski instructor...all very likely gone (unless somehow a country changes their rules which is really unlikely). When I speak to leavers they seem surprised that it's not 'as easy as filling out a paper form'. No, it's really, really not.
So anyway, we genuinely did just give away our rights to freely live and work throughout our own continent...not just for ourselves, but for our kids and grandkids. And to me, that is a massive shame. I've been lucky enough to travel through various countries of Europe and I have good friends in some European cities. It genuinely hurts to know that there is now a big barrier between us, and whereas before I could consider the idea of living near them for a while (or more if I like it), now I cannot. Some people might still manage it if they are particularly qualified or skilled in their field, but the chances are really, really slim in my opinion, and that will be the case for years now. And it's probably no surprise that Brits don't have the best reputation in Europe anymore after all the trash talk from our press. I was actually due to fly and just go after a year of unsuccessful online applications from here...wanted to be with some mates out there who funnily enough I had got supporting the Swans...they mentioned they could sort me out with some casual job to tie me over... and then the corona second wave hit - flight was cancelled and the travel ban came in. Screwed in every way. And yeah I am really angry about it. But after weeks of feeling depressed I'm trying not to think about that now. Oh well, another 4 months of isolation in lockdown here and not a f'n clue what to do next. But hopefully the Swans keep winning.
Excellent post.
Now, Pikey, perhaps you can give a coherent and credible response to Dean's post.
Or are you going to stick with childishly waving your miniature Union Jacks for ever?
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The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:50 - Jan 3 with 960 views
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