| A bit of perspective and entertainment 10:49 - Nov 28 with 5313 views | RichardO |
I'm using Cooper's Forest as a comparison for the last six games given Martin and him are in similar positions new manager at their clubs
Swansea won 3 lost 2 and drawn 1 scored 10 conceded 9..... 10 points
Forest won 1 lost 0 and drawn 5 scored conceded 3....8 points.
I would rather watch a game under Martin than Cooper, nice to have the ups and downs of the game rather than grinding out boring draws and we even get more points.
Still relatively early days yet, Martin still has to learn the pro and cons of his players in a game enviroment in a Championship league that he is also new to. [Post edited 28 Nov 2021 11:32]
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 19:05 - Nov 29 with 1275 views | KeithHaynes |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 18:56 - Nov 29 by RichardO |
Klopp and Guardiola both use the high press but both Liverpool and Man City suffered (I use the term relatively)with the lost on their main defensive men Van Dijk and Company both strong and uncompromising, they surrounded them with pacey full/wing backs, we are not there yet are we?
[Post edited 29 Nov 2021 18:57]
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Swansea City playing a high press plus the way we play now, that’s when the revolution kicks in properly. |  |
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 20:20 - Nov 29 with 1232 views | YouBackJastard |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 16:10 - Nov 29 by vetchonian |
the stats tell me we have consistently achieved more possession than the oppostion in the majority if not all of our games this season. This has not resulted in us winning the majority of our games.
We are told we need time ...MArtin had 1and 3/4 seasons at MK Dons yet still he hadnt managed to turn his possession into points.
Tell me what is evident we are building ? I tell you what I see is a manager trying to shoe horn players into playing his way...not utilisng the strengths of the resources avaailable to work towards his ultimate goal.
IF we are in transistion why not work with Brandon Coooper or Fulton to play the fulchrum role he has NAughtin playing?
MArtin dies not adapt the team to suit the opposisiton or make changes to nullify oppostion tactics...out of desperation on Saturday he pushed Naughton into midfield...surely that is where Downes should have been?
I discussed elsewhere how Blackpool nullified us by pushing their backline high and when needed doubled up on the wingbacks especially Laird....at no point did we try a chip over the top or into space to chase which would have the CBs turning..and make the opposition think but no MArtin is only going to play his way...we are already predictable and easy to read....it is a true playing by numbers.
It is not evident what we are building....yes I understand we want to have more of the ball and be more entertaining....but if peolple believe that having 800 passes and 80% possesion consitently will mean will become dominant in all games....why is it Klopp, Guardiola et al are not playing this way? |
It is very evident what we are trying to build here and you would have to be severally visually impaired to not see it. | | | |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 21:26 - Nov 29 with 1202 views | AndyCole |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 20:20 - Nov 29 by YouBackJastard |
It is very evident what we are trying to build here and you would have to be severally visually impaired to not see it. |
It's easy to see when we revert to the winning Plan B.
Plan A was and is unfortunately again the issue.
The manager needs to play to our strengths, not our deficiencies.
Proper dialogue and grown up discussion on here should focus on how we improve, instead of the cheap internet forum point scoring that pervades when the twp get going.
When we together on matchday at the ground, the chat is largely around constructive critique. Throughout the match, and beyond. What could we do better ?
It's what most intelligent grown ups do, nowadays.
Give it a bash.
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| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 21:40 - Nov 29 with 1194 views | YouBackJastard |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 21:26 - Nov 29 by AndyCole |
It's easy to see when we revert to the winning Plan B.
Plan A was and is unfortunately again the issue.
The manager needs to play to our strengths, not our deficiencies.
Proper dialogue and grown up discussion on here should focus on how we improve, instead of the cheap internet forum point scoring that pervades when the twp get going.
When we together on matchday at the ground, the chat is largely around constructive critique. Throughout the match, and beyond. What could we do better ?
It's what most intelligent grown ups do, nowadays.
Give it a bash.
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Was Plan A throwing on a striker for a CB? | | | |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 21:42 - Nov 29 with 1193 views | Fireboy2 |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 21:26 - Nov 29 by AndyCole |
It's easy to see when we revert to the winning Plan B.
Plan A was and is unfortunately again the issue.
The manager needs to play to our strengths, not our deficiencies.
Proper dialogue and grown up discussion on here should focus on how we improve, instead of the cheap internet forum point scoring that pervades when the twp get going.
When we together on matchday at the ground, the chat is largely around constructive critique. Throughout the match, and beyond. What could we do better ?
It's what most intelligent grown ups do, nowadays.
Give it a bash.
.
. |
Wow, this doesn't happen often, adrian mole posting when there is no game and we aren't losing. |  | | |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 21:57 - Nov 29 with 1186 views | AndyCole |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 21:42 - Nov 29 by Fireboy2 |
Wow, this doesn't happen often, adrian mole posting when there is no game and we aren't losing. |
And the cycle of the twp continues.
It's such the pity that grown up, responsible adults (in presumably a responsible public service jobs, god forbid in this case) continue to attack the poster instead of the post.
Let's hope these irresponsible posters don't behave like this in real life.
A few notable posters need to remember how to behave. To only post what they would say in real life, to real people.
Some of us always stick to that ground rule. Many many others need to rethink how they are seen and perceived on here and in reality.
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| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 22:00 - Nov 29 with 1185 views | Fireboy2 |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 21:57 - Nov 29 by AndyCole |
And the cycle of the twp continues.
It's such the pity that grown up, responsible adults (in presumably a responsible public service jobs, god forbid in this case) continue to attack the poster instead of the post.
Let's hope these irresponsible posters don't behave like this in real life.
A few notable posters need to remember how to behave. To only post what they would say in real life, to real people.
Some of us always stick to that ground rule. Many many others need to rethink how they are seen and perceived on here and in reality.
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 22:02 - Nov 29 with 1174 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 12:28 - Nov 29 by RichardO |
A couple are two and last number of years can mean a lot more so they are not essentially the same unless you somehow want to interpret them that way.
There are styles of playing which people prefer to watch(The winning bit helps),I prefer the high press when it is done properly but that leads to teams having to work out how to beat it and given the poor defending on the weekend Reading did just that(It might have something to do with the limitation in the team picked) .
I'm not a Martin fan but given the poor performance in the play off final I am quite prepared to see how the season progresses. |
So what years are you referring to then?
I understand people prefer different styles, and that’s fine. But I am making the point that we are not more attacking this year at all, we are the opposite. |  |
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 22:15 - Nov 29 with 1166 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 15:47 - Nov 29 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Cooper had 12 months to establish "Cooperball" and always gets off to the flier.
Martin had 3 days to prepare his team for "Maritnball" stating the squad left behind.
This was reflected in the early results.
Martin now has no excuses. The players are fit and used his ways. |
We can use Coopers first season then if you prefer? We had a striker that season that was worthy of a spot.
Goal attempts. First 20 games 2019/20 - 263
Goal attempts. First 20 games 2020/21 - 220
Goal attempts. First 20 games THIS SEASON - 196
He has also presided over 133 goal attempts in his 12 matches in charge of Forest this season. This after having no pre season and a matter of days/hours to impart his style of play on the players.
That of course averages to 221 over 20 games which is essentially exactly how we were last season under him.
It’s a complete myth to say we are more attacking this season. We are far from it.
Not necessarily a bad thing of course, but still not true none the less. | |
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 22:46 - Nov 29 with 1156 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 22:00 - Nov 29 by Fireboy2 |
🎣 |
Recognize the last word there - reality ? It’s a pity Adrian Mole doesn’t lol |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 01:01 - Nov 30 with 1127 views | RichardO |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 22:02 - Nov 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
So what years are you referring to then?
I understand people prefer different styles, and that’s fine. But I am making the point that we are not more attacking this year at all, we are the opposite. |
I think that would be the years of us sliding out of the premiership and as for me saying we are more attacking this year I did not, that again was your interpretation, what I did say was with the six games by winning more games(and losing) instead of drawing games we have more points.
It would seem that people said Cooper was a better manager than Potter in their time in the championship given the stats and finishing positions in the league or did Cooper benefit from the legacy left by Potter or is Potter the better manager because he is managering a Premiership team
As per the Thread title, A bit of perspective and entertainment. [Post edited 30 Nov 2021 1:48]
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 03:06 - Nov 30 with 1108 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 01:01 - Nov 30 by RichardO |
I think that would be the years of us sliding out of the premiership and as for me saying we are more attacking this year I did not, that again was your interpretation, what I did say was with the six games by winning more games(and losing) instead of drawing games we have more points.
It would seem that people said Cooper was a better manager than Potter in their time in the championship given the stats and finishing positions in the league or did Cooper benefit from the legacy left by Potter or is Potter the better manager because he is managering a Premiership team
As per the Thread title, A bit of perspective and entertainment. [Post edited 30 Nov 2021 1:48]
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So you said it was nice to be finally going out to try to win games “…after so many years of trying not to lose games and nicking it when we could.” - after clearly comparing this season to Cooper.
And after learning that was nonsense, you are now trying to tell me you were referring to half a decade ago in the Premier League and that “going out to win games” doesn’t mean being attacking? 
It’s quite clear you were referring to the immediate years prior to this one and suggesting we are now a more attacking unit. Not sure why you are trying to back out of your comment now.
Yes I think a few people think that Cooper was a better manager for us than Potter was. Managing a Premier League team doesn’t make you a better manager, it makes you a manager that is managing in a higher league. Cooper would also be doing so if we didn’t block the move to Palace which appears to have happened.
The perspective is that passing negatively 800 times a game is not entertaining, it’s not attacking and it’s not really successful. That is why opposition fans at the moment can’t believe their eyes by how bad it is to watch.
What is frustrating is we had already hit upon a great formula that was entertaining and successful, now we are insisting on going back to a style which is neither.
What Potter has to do with it however, I’m not quite sure. [Post edited 30 Nov 2021 3:22]
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 09:12 - Nov 30 with 1087 views | RichardO |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 03:06 - Nov 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
So you said it was nice to be finally going out to try to win games “…after so many years of trying not to lose games and nicking it when we could.” - after clearly comparing this season to Cooper.
And after learning that was nonsense, you are now trying to tell me you were referring to half a decade ago in the Premier League and that “going out to win games” doesn’t mean being attacking?
It’s quite clear you were referring to the immediate years prior to this one and suggesting we are now a more attacking unit. Not sure why you are trying to back out of your comment now.
Yes I think a few people think that Cooper was a better manager for us than Potter was. Managing a Premier League team doesn’t make you a better manager, it makes you a manager that is managing in a higher league. Cooper would also be doing so if we didn’t block the move to Palace which appears to have happened.
The perspective is that passing negatively 800 times a game is not entertaining, it’s not attacking and it’s not really successful. That is why opposition fans at the moment can’t believe their eyes by how bad it is to watch.
What is frustrating is we had already hit upon a great formula that was entertaining and successful, now we are insisting on going back to a style which is neither.
What Potter has to do with it however, I’m not quite sure. [Post edited 30 Nov 2021 3:22]
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"The perspective is that passing negatively 800 times a game is not entertaining, it’s not attacking and it’s not really successful. That is why opposition fans at the moment can’t believe their eyes by how bad it is to watch"?
So you are saying Coopers Swans team, when we had possession, did not negatively pass the ball backwards negatively in a controlled manner?
You also said "What is frustrating is we had already hit upon a great formula that was entertaining and successful, now we are insisting on going back to a style which is neither.", for all your stats you seem to missed the point that it was Cooper who reverted to a style in the second half of last season, that didn't build on the success first half of the season, using a formula that was neither entertaining or ultimately successful or did you forget the submission of territory at home games to drop back into our own half to make sure we weren't breached or the number last ditch tackles and aimless clearances to the opposition resulting in the return of pressure in our box because we had left no one up front at set pieces. The disconnect between the two forwards who it seemed wouldn't pass to each other.
Entertaining I don't think so, I have agreed with you on several points especially the need to move the ball at pace and preferably forward into dangerous areas but ultimately Cooper didn't get the best of out of the squad he had and wasn't able to play his under17s cup winning style with the lack of pace in the teams "he picked".
As I "did" say previously I'm prepared to give the new manager a chance and not be so negative.
"Amusing little emoji, Amusing little emoji, Amusing little emoji. [Post edited 30 Nov 2021 9:16]
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 09:21 - Nov 30 with 1070 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 09:12 - Nov 30 by RichardO |
"The perspective is that passing negatively 800 times a game is not entertaining, it’s not attacking and it’s not really successful. That is why opposition fans at the moment can’t believe their eyes by how bad it is to watch"?
So you are saying Coopers Swans team, when we had possession, did not negatively pass the ball backwards negatively in a controlled manner?
You also said "What is frustrating is we had already hit upon a great formula that was entertaining and successful, now we are insisting on going back to a style which is neither.", for all your stats you seem to missed the point that it was Cooper who reverted to a style in the second half of last season, that didn't build on the success first half of the season, using a formula that was neither entertaining or ultimately successful or did you forget the submission of territory at home games to drop back into our own half to make sure we weren't breached or the number last ditch tackles and aimless clearances to the opposition resulting in the return of pressure in our box because we had left no one up front at set pieces. The disconnect between the two forwards who it seemed wouldn't pass to each other.
Entertaining I don't think so, I have agreed with you on several points especially the need to move the ball at pace and preferably forward into dangerous areas but ultimately Cooper didn't get the best of out of the squad he had and wasn't able to play his under17s cup winning style with the lack of pace in the teams "he picked".
As I "did" say previously I'm prepared to give the new manager a chance and not be so negative.
"Amusing little emoji, Amusing little emoji, Amusing little emoji. [Post edited 30 Nov 2021 9:16]
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I am saying we were a more attacking unit under Cooper than than this season.
I don't believe in ''controlling'' a game, if we controlled games then we wouldn't be struggling to win consistently.
I don't believe we played much differently in the first half of last season compared to the first half. But we lost Rodon and some of the signings didn't fit in well, but our attacking intent was essentially the same as I showed you.
Cooper absolutely got the best out of the squad he had. We got to the play offs back to back and improved year on year including equaling our record points tally of the greatest football league squad we have ever had (Brendan's team).
We are all happy to give the manager a chance, but there is no point in rewriting history while we do so. | |
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 10:41 - Nov 30 with 1036 views | RichardO |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 09:21 - Nov 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
I am saying we were a more attacking unit under Cooper than than this season.
I don't believe in ''controlling'' a game, if we controlled games then we wouldn't be struggling to win consistently.
I don't believe we played much differently in the first half of last season compared to the first half. But we lost Rodon and some of the signings didn't fit in well, but our attacking intent was essentially the same as I showed you.
Cooper absolutely got the best out of the squad he had. We got to the play offs back to back and improved year on year including equaling our record points tally of the greatest football league squad we have ever had (Brendan's team).
We are all happy to give the manager a chance, but there is no point in rewriting history while we do so. |
It is all a matter of prespective.
I don't call lack of press attacking play especially at our home games when teams were reluctant to to step out ofdefensive formation as the home supporters urge our team on.
A team will never be able to "control" the play for a whole game, one the opposition doesn't want you to and two there is no accounting for human errors as evident on Saturday.
In the second half of the season while Houirane 'may' of added quality partnered with Grime and one other, the play was too slow and not the dynamic u17s style that Cooper wanted to play.
Getting the best out of the squad, he couldn't get his front players to pass to each other and in the end the team being scared to play out from the back (I will say there is a time to put the ball into row Z to let the team reorganise ).
Brendan used pacy winger who worked hard for 70mins pulling defenders into uncomfortable position to open up space, and then changed them for pacy winger to do the same for the last 30mins.
It is all a matter of perspective and stats as you so rightly pointed out, do not prove a measure of success whether it be possession, goals for or attempts on goal,
The only stat that counts is points on the board.
We didn't get enough and didn't progress to the sort after goal of promotion under Cooper and if he wanted to go then time for someone else.
I would go on to mention the play off games against Brentford and Frank's team getting the better of Cooper's team but it is too painful to mention.
😔 [Post edited 30 Nov 2021 10:59]
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 12:32 - Nov 30 with 981 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 10:41 - Nov 30 by RichardO |
It is all a matter of prespective.
I don't call lack of press attacking play especially at our home games when teams were reluctant to to step out ofdefensive formation as the home supporters urge our team on.
A team will never be able to "control" the play for a whole game, one the opposition doesn't want you to and two there is no accounting for human errors as evident on Saturday.
In the second half of the season while Houirane 'may' of added quality partnered with Grime and one other, the play was too slow and not the dynamic u17s style that Cooper wanted to play.
Getting the best out of the squad, he couldn't get his front players to pass to each other and in the end the team being scared to play out from the back (I will say there is a time to put the ball into row Z to let the team reorganise ).
Brendan used pacy winger who worked hard for 70mins pulling defenders into uncomfortable position to open up space, and then changed them for pacy winger to do the same for the last 30mins.
It is all a matter of perspective and stats as you so rightly pointed out, do not prove a measure of success whether it be possession, goals for or attempts on goal,
The only stat that counts is points on the board.
We didn't get enough and didn't progress to the sort after goal of promotion under Cooper and if he wanted to go then time for someone else.
I would go on to mention the play off games against Brentford and Frank's team getting the better of Cooper's team but it is too painful to mention.
😔 [Post edited 30 Nov 2021 10:59]
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It’s not a matter of perspective though.
We were factually more attacking under Cooper than we have been this season. More chances created, more shots, more goals - it’s not in question. It was no coincidence that also led to more points and a higher league position.
Having the ball and controlling the game are vastly different things. The opposition can be in control of the game with 25% possession if that is their game plan and they are correct in thinking that the more possession the other team has leads to a greater chance of error, they sit back and spring into action when the error is made.
As for Cooper, his side losing to an excellent Brentford side who deservedly finished above us means nothing. We were the 4th best performing team in the league and lost to a team above us, who have now gone on to perform excellently in the Premier League.
That was the maximum expected from that squad, and even that was a push. I expected around 6th or 7th as did most others. To improve and even go on to equal Brendans record was remarkable after losing the likes of Rodon.
But we do agree that points matter which is why I’m very frustrated that we keep reverting to a style that doesn’t tend to get us many. | |
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 20:43 - Nov 30 with 902 views | RichardO |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 12:32 - Nov 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s not a matter of perspective though.
We were factually more attacking under Cooper than we have been this season. More chances created, more shots, more goals - it’s not in question. It was no coincidence that also led to more points and a higher league position.
Having the ball and controlling the game are vastly different things. The opposition can be in control of the game with 25% possession if that is their game plan and they are correct in thinking that the more possession the other team has leads to a greater chance of error, they sit back and spring into action when the error is made.
As for Cooper, his side losing to an excellent Brentford side who deservedly finished above us means nothing. We were the 4th best performing team in the league and lost to a team above us, who have now gone on to perform excellently in the Premier League.
That was the maximum expected from that squad, and even that was a push. I expected around 6th or 7th as did most others. To improve and even go on to equal Brendans record was remarkable after losing the likes of Rodon.
But we do agree that points matter which is why I’m very frustrated that we keep reverting to a style that doesn’t tend to get us many. |
Just checked the goals average for last year 56 in 46 games against the average of 25 in 20 games this year and it would seem that we are in fact on course to score more goals than last year so we must be more attack minded.
Given that 56 goals, for all our supposed attacking intent, was in fact, out of the top ten the lowest amount scored bar 55 by Middlesborough or did you already know that and concentrate on goal attempt and shots on target which are not facts as you state but a personalised count within questionable parameters.
As for you saying "losing to an excellent Brentford side who deservedly finished above us means nothing" I must disagree we matched them in the league in the two season we reached the play offs, won the the first semi final play off game and if we had shown a little more attacking intent may have won the second semi and likewise the second play off season final, so I can well understand your frustration with Cooper team selection
As for matching Mr Rodgers points tally he actually took his team to Wembley with the intent of winning and they scored 4 goals while conceding 2 a little more than Cooper I believe?
The thread title does say perspective and entertainment and I would prefer to watch a Swansea team managed by Rodgers than Cooper.
We had times under Cooper when we had glimpses of
some attractive football but alas it was all for nought.
I am glad we had him as a manager and wish him well but welcome Martin with his vision of football and attacking intent, but I do hope he sorts out our defense because 6 month or a year down the line I might want him out. | | | |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 22:31 - Nov 30 with 888 views | AndyCole |
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Tedious, repetitive, regressive stuff from the OP. Yet another new username for a usual suspect, too comical.
A bit of perspective for the OP:
- less is more
- opening up the cans of worms you choose is so yesteryear
- nobody wants a Martin:Cooper bore-fest - we all know who wins
Channel your perspectives and entertain us all with your thoughts on how Martin should revert to Plan B to find that winning formula.
Mid table mediocrity is becoming so very mediocre, where even die hard fans are sloping off with 13 minutes to go. Give it your best shot.......
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| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 00:09 - Dec 1 with 845 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 20:43 - Nov 30 by RichardO |
Just checked the goals average for last year 56 in 46 games against the average of 25 in 20 games this year and it would seem that we are in fact on course to score more goals than last year so we must be more attack minded.
Given that 56 goals, for all our supposed attacking intent, was in fact, out of the top ten the lowest amount scored bar 55 by Middlesborough or did you already know that and concentrate on goal attempt and shots on target which are not facts as you state but a personalised count within questionable parameters.
As for you saying "losing to an excellent Brentford side who deservedly finished above us means nothing" I must disagree we matched them in the league in the two season we reached the play offs, won the the first semi final play off game and if we had shown a little more attacking intent may have won the second semi and likewise the second play off season final, so I can well understand your frustration with Cooper team selection
As for matching Mr Rodgers points tally he actually took his team to Wembley with the intent of winning and they scored 4 goals while conceding 2 a little more than Cooper I believe?
The thread title does say perspective and entertainment and I would prefer to watch a Swansea team managed by Rodgers than Cooper.
We had times under Cooper when we had glimpses of
some attractive football but alas it was all for nought.
I am glad we had him as a manager and wish him well but welcome Martin with his vision of football and attacking intent, but I do hope he sorts out our defense because 6 month or a year down the line I might want him out. |
I have just shown you that we are less attacking this year, we haven’t reached the 200 chances created mark yet where at this time last season we were 10% beyond it.
Scoring 1 more goal this season simply means our conversion rate is better, which has something to do with the fact we actually have a natural striker in Piroe that can finish what few chances he has. Doesn’t mean we are more attacking though, if we were then we would see more attacks.
It really is that simple.
We had 57% possession and 9 shots against Brentford in the final. It’s funny how those stats don’t seem to matter when we lose? They were much better than us though which is why they have hardly had to add to their side since promotion yet we would have needed a whole new one. We overachieved big time, we had no business getting promoted with that squad and the fact we got to within 90 mins was remarkable.
As for matching them… In our 6 previous games against Brentford, we won only once. Lost by a margin of 2 goals or more 3 (yes three) times.
The thread does say “perspective and entertainment”, yes.
It doesn’t say “fantasy and make believe”, though. Hence my objection to you incorrectly saying we have more attacking intent this year when we have created 10%+ less scoring opportunities. [Post edited 1 Dec 2021 0:59]
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 09:11 - Dec 1 with 806 views | RichardO |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 00:09 - Dec 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
I have just shown you that we are less attacking this year, we haven’t reached the 200 chances created mark yet where at this time last season we were 10% beyond it.
Scoring 1 more goal this season simply means our conversion rate is better, which has something to do with the fact we actually have a natural striker in Piroe that can finish what few chances he has. Doesn’t mean we are more attacking though, if we were then we would see more attacks.
It really is that simple.
We had 57% possession and 9 shots against Brentford in the final. It’s funny how those stats don’t seem to matter when we lose? They were much better than us though which is why they have hardly had to add to their side since promotion yet we would have needed a whole new one. We overachieved big time, we had no business getting promoted with that squad and the fact we got to within 90 mins was remarkable.
As for matching them… In our 6 previous games against Brentford, we won only once. Lost by a margin of 2 goals or more 3 (yes three) times.
The thread does say “perspective and entertainment”, yes.
It doesn’t say “fantasy and make believe”, though. Hence my objection to you incorrectly saying we have more attacking intent this year when we have created 10%+ less scoring opportunities. [Post edited 1 Dec 2021 0:59]
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I didn't say in the original post"we have more attacking intent" those were your words and have been repeated to show stats mean nothing and can be manipulated to show what you want, I just pointed out in a set number six how by winning game and losing games instead of drawing games you end up but you weren't happy with that and picked an uneven number of games to prove a point which is what I did with the goals stats.
You seem to have done the same by picking the last the last league 6 game | | | |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 10:09 - Dec 1 with 802 views | Treforys_Jack |
10 pages at least. Pulls up chair !! |  | | |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 10:20 - Dec 1 with 792 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 09:11 - Dec 1 by RichardO |
I didn't say in the original post"we have more attacking intent" those were your words and have been repeated to show stats mean nothing and can be manipulated to show what you want, I just pointed out in a set number six how by winning game and losing games instead of drawing games you end up but you weren't happy with that and picked an uneven number of games to prove a point which is what I did with the goals stats.
You seem to have done the same by picking the last the last league 6 game |
How have they been manipulated?
You said it is nice that we have a manager going out to win games instead of sitting back and hoping to nick one, or words to that effect right? That means you think we are more attacking this season, if it doesn’t then please explain what you are now pretending you meant.
You cherry picked the last six games, a third of which Forest played teams recently relegated from the Premier League and used that comparison to make a point. I pointed out that you can’t just take a selection of games that is convenient to the point you want to make.
Otherwise let’s just use the last game, Forest drew and we lost. Right?
You take ALL the games Cooper has managed this year. You take ALL the games Martin has managed this year - you then allow the comparison.
I used the last 6 against Brentford because you said:-
“must disagree we matched them in the league in the two season we reached the play offs”. The 6 games covered that period that you had already set and stated we matched them… when we didn’t. | |
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 11:03 - Dec 1 with 766 views | RichardO |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 00:09 - Dec 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
I have just shown you that we are less attacking this year, we haven’t reached the 200 chances created mark yet where at this time last season we were 10% beyond it.
Scoring 1 more goal this season simply means our conversion rate is better, which has something to do with the fact we actually have a natural striker in Piroe that can finish what few chances he has. Doesn’t mean we are more attacking though, if we were then we would see more attacks.
It really is that simple.
We had 57% possession and 9 shots against Brentford in the final. It’s funny how those stats don’t seem to matter when we lose? They were much better than us though which is why they have hardly had to add to their side since promotion yet we would have needed a whole new one. We overachieved big time, we had no business getting promoted with that squad and the fact we got to within 90 mins was remarkable.
As for matching them… In our 6 previous games against Brentford, we won only once. Lost by a margin of 2 goals or more 3 (yes three) times.
The thread does say “perspective and entertainment”, yes.
It doesn’t say “fantasy and make believe”, though. Hence my objection to you incorrectly saying we have more attacking intent this year when we have created 10%+ less scoring opportunities. [Post edited 1 Dec 2021 0:59]
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I didn't say in the original post "we have more attacking intent" those were your words and have been repeated by me to show stats mean nothing and can be manipulated to show what you want, I just pointed out in a set number of games, six how by winning games and losing games instead of drawing games you can end up with more points but you weren't happy with that and picked an uneven number of games to prove a point which is what I did with the goals stats.
You seem to have done the similar by picking the last 6 league game against Brentford to prove a point, if you go back further only by a few years then Swansea record is far superior, unless you meant to included the play off games which would mean 7 games not 6.
You point out that Piroe is a natural striker but it is a team game so do we discount the qualities of the other players?
Cooper played a similar passing game across the backs but also played the dropping back into two lines of defence after conceding possession, as per the English coaching manual and you seem to be happily entertained with it watching us, at home, conceding possession and dropping back to defend deep in our own half, even against teams in the lower half of the division and only showing more attacking intent after going behind and as the season progressed we dropped deeper and deeper hoping to snatch a goal, very much like the end of our relegation season where we only needed a couple of points with a good number of games to survive.
Your stats show nothing about the ebb and flow of the games, how our team had to attack after going behind raising the number of goal attempts but not the goals scored( which would sum up the Brentford play off final game stats)or the urging on of unhappy home crowd watching ponderous passing and hoof ball to defend our goal and you seem happy with that.
You used your stats to counter a statement that was not made.
What I did say was "I would rather watch a game under Martin than Cooper, nice to have the ups and downs of the game rather than grinding out boring draws and we even get more points."
You could argue with the "and we get more points" but in the last six games compared but you can't or can you?
I did also say
"Still relatively early days yet, Martin still has to learn the pro and cons of his players in a game enviroment in a Championship league that he is also new to." | | | |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 11:53 - Dec 1 with 738 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 11:03 - Dec 1 by RichardO |
I didn't say in the original post "we have more attacking intent" those were your words and have been repeated by me to show stats mean nothing and can be manipulated to show what you want, I just pointed out in a set number of games, six how by winning games and losing games instead of drawing games you can end up with more points but you weren't happy with that and picked an uneven number of games to prove a point which is what I did with the goals stats.
You seem to have done the similar by picking the last 6 league game against Brentford to prove a point, if you go back further only by a few years then Swansea record is far superior, unless you meant to included the play off games which would mean 7 games not 6.
You point out that Piroe is a natural striker but it is a team game so do we discount the qualities of the other players?
Cooper played a similar passing game across the backs but also played the dropping back into two lines of defence after conceding possession, as per the English coaching manual and you seem to be happily entertained with it watching us, at home, conceding possession and dropping back to defend deep in our own half, even against teams in the lower half of the division and only showing more attacking intent after going behind and as the season progressed we dropped deeper and deeper hoping to snatch a goal, very much like the end of our relegation season where we only needed a couple of points with a good number of games to survive.
Your stats show nothing about the ebb and flow of the games, how our team had to attack after going behind raising the number of goal attempts but not the goals scored( which would sum up the Brentford play off final game stats)or the urging on of unhappy home crowd watching ponderous passing and hoof ball to defend our goal and you seem happy with that.
You used your stats to counter a statement that was not made.
What I did say was "I would rather watch a game under Martin than Cooper, nice to have the ups and downs of the game rather than grinding out boring draws and we even get more points."
You could argue with the "and we get more points" but in the last six games compared but you can't or can you?
I did also say
"Still relatively early days yet, Martin still has to learn the pro and cons of his players in a game enviroment in a Championship league that he is also new to." |
Which stats have been manipulated? Apart from you selectively choosing 6 games that is.
You said we are going out to win matches unlike last few years. Whether you said it or not, that implies you suggesting we are going out to attack teams this season. I showed you we did that more previously, you are now stating that isn’t what you meant.
You didn’t say we are winning instead of drawing, you said we are going out to win (that indicated intent not results). What you did with the goals stats states conversion rate not attacking numbers, it’s an irrelevant stat to the discussion. If we are going out to win games this season as opposed to the last couple of years - then we will have more attacks and goal scoring opportunities… not less.
I didn’t pick 6 games against Brentford. You did. I then took those games and showed you that we weren’t evenly matched as you initially claimed, we lost by 2 clear goals in half of them and only won once, by a single goal. Once you start going further back than that then you are comparing teams far removed from the one played in the final (which was your point) and it becomes irrelevant.
I did point out that we have Piroe yes, hence why our conversion rate is higher this season. Natural strikers tend to not need as many chances as a winger put there out of necessity.
My stats simply show how many chances we created under Cooper, nothing more and nothing less. That is the only point I have made, nothing to do with the ebb and flow of a game. Whether you like to admit it or not you were suggesting we are more attacking under Martin - I proved we are not.
You can say you prefer to watch us this season, that’s great. But when you say “it’s nice that we are going out to win games as opposed to the last few years” then you will be called out on that sort of rubbish because it’s false. | |
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| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 12:07 - Dec 1 with 720 views | RichardO |
| A bit of perspective and entertainment on 11:53 - Dec 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Which stats have been manipulated? Apart from you selectively choosing 6 games that is.
You said we are going out to win matches unlike last few years. Whether you said it or not, that implies you suggesting we are going out to attack teams this season. I showed you we did that more previously, you are now stating that isn’t what you meant.
You didn’t say we are winning instead of drawing, you said we are going out to win (that indicated intent not results). What you did with the goals stats states conversion rate not attacking numbers, it’s an irrelevant stat to the discussion. If we are going out to win games this season as opposed to the last couple of years - then we will have more attacks and goal scoring opportunities… not less.
I didn’t pick 6 games against Brentford. You did. I then took those games and showed you that we weren’t evenly matched as you initially claimed, we lost by 2 clear goals in half of them and only won once, by a single goal. Once you start going further back than that then you are comparing teams far removed from the one played in the final (which was your point) and it becomes irrelevant.
I did point out that we have Piroe yes, hence why our conversion rate is higher this season. Natural strikers tend to not need as many chances as a winger put there out of necessity.
My stats simply show how many chances we created under Cooper, nothing more and nothing less. That is the only point I have made, nothing to do with the ebb and flow of a game. Whether you like to admit it or not you were suggesting we are more attacking under Martin - I proved we are not.
You can say you prefer to watch us this season, that’s great. But when you say “it’s nice that we are going out to win games as opposed to the last few years” then you will be called out on that sort of rubbish because it’s false. |
Once again you misinterpret things I didn't mention 6 Brentford game I commented on the 7 but once again it flew right over your head, you again was the one mentioning 6 Brentford games or did you build your stats on 7 | | | |
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