| Warburton post-Blackburn 15:54 - Feb 26 with 10267 views | stainrods_elbow |
A tired interviews after a tired performance. How many weeks now has he been saying we've looked laboured and leggy? Really tops off a crap weekend. Meanwhile, Banfield looks like he's eaten a lorryload of Bonne's Jaffa Cakes just to set the tone. |  |
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| Warburton post-Blackburn on 11:50 - Mar 2 with 2035 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 11:31 - Mar 2 by daveB |
He had Gray on the bench so he had options. I'd agree with the sentiment that Austin and Gray are not playing particularly well at the moment, although Austins movement created the space for the equaliser that day.
I find the comments about them being not in shape etc a bit disrespectful really but each to their own. I wouldn't mind being in as bad shape as Austin looks. |
I can't see how saying a professional athlete is unfit to play at the required pace of the game for 90 minutes is disrespectful.
If anything to sign a contract and turn up for work and not be fit for service is disrespectful to your manager and employers, not to mention being disrespectful to the clubs fans with uncalled for sarcastic tweets and gestures.
I'd also disagree Austin's movement created the space for Chairs equaliser, and if anything, showed just how slow of movement he now is in the box and how easily he was marked for that cross.
I hope he knuckles down and if playing 15mins or 30mins has enough in the tank to play full pace for the run-in.
Based on this season, next season does'nt look great, and it might be a mutual decision to part ways or he may prove to have the integrity of a Lee Cook and do the right thing for the club and its fans. |  | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 12:08 - Mar 2 with 1986 views | daveB |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 11:50 - Mar 2 by ParkRoyalR |
I can't see how saying a professional athlete is unfit to play at the required pace of the game for 90 minutes is disrespectful.
If anything to sign a contract and turn up for work and not be fit for service is disrespectful to your manager and employers, not to mention being disrespectful to the clubs fans with uncalled for sarcastic tweets and gestures.
I'd also disagree Austin's movement created the space for Chairs equaliser, and if anything, showed just how slow of movement he now is in the box and how easily he was marked for that cross.
I hope he knuckles down and if playing 15mins or 30mins has enough in the tank to play full pace for the run-in.
Based on this season, next season does'nt look great, and it might be a mutual decision to part ways or he may prove to have the integrity of a Lee Cook and do the right thing for the club and its fans. |
Thats your opinion that he's unfit, I don't buy it to be honest I just think he's not playing very well. His fitness, shape etc looks the same as it was last season to me. He was hardly moving quickly when everyone loved him.
When you read some of the abuse aimed at him on twitter I don't blame him for replying with sarcastic tweets, to go from people kissing his arse one week to calling him fat and lazy the next was always likely to draw a reaction from him.
Chair spoke about Austins movement for his recent goal making space for him so am assuming he would know
He's been fit and available for almost every game this season, i think the criticism of his fitness is over the top to be honest
The biggest problem with Austin, Gray and Dykes imo is that we don't play to any of their strengths. Putting balls in behind for Gray or crosses into the box for Dykes/Austin just doesn't seem to happen that often so they are all having to play differently to fit in with the rest of the team and it's not worked for them. All of them end up either coming too deep to get involved or being isolated up front |  | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 17:07 - Mar 2 with 1837 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 10:54 - Mar 2 by ParkRoyalR |
Context being our 2 likely highest earners who contribute next to nothing to our overall team play, provide few if any assists, have scored how many league goals? With a maybe 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 scoring rate?
If you contribute as little as they do to overall team play, on those wages, you need to be returning a 1 in 2 strike rate imo.
Their fitness / mobility is clearly a concern, with Warburton finally publicly acknowledging what many fans have been saying for months, they are not fit enough, and have been carried by Willock and others for months.
Now Willock and Dykes are not fully fit and not able to carry them, their lack of contribution is there for all to see.
Lets hope Willock, Adomah etc can provide some pin-point crosses so the team and fans benefit from those two improving their current goals return, which is their only contribution to the team. |
I DO agree that clearly he wasn't happy with playing those two v Blackpool or Grey v Blackburn, but we'll have to agree disagree on the assertions, which I hope you'll agree are assumptions on your part, that they are a) our top 2 earners and b) are both 'unfit'. | | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 18:21 - Mar 2 with 1775 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 17:07 - Mar 2 by PinnerPaul |
I DO agree that clearly he wasn't happy with playing those two v Blackpool or Grey v Blackburn, but we'll have to agree disagree on the assertions, which I hope you'll agree are assumptions on your part, that they are a) our top 2 earners and b) are both 'unfit'. |
I agree highest earners is an assumption but I don't think many of our fans would go outside Austin & Gray being our two highest earners,
I'd argue though we can all tell the difference when say Lee Wallace is properly match-fit (after say 4 games following his return to the side) and when's he's not (his first game back).
In fairness to Wallace he is going on 35, struggling with niggling injuries and he still looks fitter and covers more ground on his first game back from injury that these two have done in any game all season.
Whether, like Adomah, this is down to Wallace's professionalism, lifestyle, whatever, we don't know, but I expect Austin (and Gray) to be at least as fit as Wallace, which from my viewing and opinion is'nt the case. | | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 23:40 - Mar 2 with 1671 views | daveB |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 18:21 - Mar 2 by ParkRoyalR |
I agree highest earners is an assumption but I don't think many of our fans would go outside Austin & Gray being our two highest earners,
I'd argue though we can all tell the difference when say Lee Wallace is properly match-fit (after say 4 games following his return to the side) and when's he's not (his first game back).
In fairness to Wallace he is going on 35, struggling with niggling injuries and he still looks fitter and covers more ground on his first game back from injury that these two have done in any game all season.
Whether, like Adomah, this is down to Wallace's professionalism, lifestyle, whatever, we don't know, but I expect Austin (and Gray) to be at least as fit as Wallace, which from my viewing and opinion is'nt the case. |
It's probably because they play different positions, a full back spends their whole career running so need more stamina whereas forwards play in short bursts so are never going to cover as much ground as a wing back and i don't think you'd want them to | | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 13:10 - Mar 3 with 1474 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 23:40 - Mar 2 by daveB |
It's probably because they play different positions, a full back spends their whole career running so need more stamina whereas forwards play in short bursts so are never going to cover as much ground as a wing back and i don't think you'd want them to |
I get that but I have n't seen a short burst of anything from either Austin or Gray so far this season so its needs a drastic turnaround from them.
I was making the point, maybe badly, that we can all clearly see the noticeable improvement in Wallace's fitness / stamina after a few games back after injury, but I have not seen any noticeable improvement in Austin & Gray's fitness / stamina from the beginning of the season until now.
Maybe their professional pride and the embarrassment of being dropped in favour of Chair & Willock might provoke the reaction we all want to see.
Warburton's hand has been forced by their lethargic performances to date, and if Dykes is'nt fit for Saturday, not sure where he goes with our front two.
If Dykes is fit and he reverts to playing a 2nd striker at home, I would like to see Gray run himself into the ground for the first 60 minutes and Austin to do likewise for the last 30 minutes with Adomah supporting. | | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 13:34 - Mar 3 with 1438 views | Myke |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 13:10 - Mar 3 by ParkRoyalR |
I get that but I have n't seen a short burst of anything from either Austin or Gray so far this season so its needs a drastic turnaround from them.
I was making the point, maybe badly, that we can all clearly see the noticeable improvement in Wallace's fitness / stamina after a few games back after injury, but I have not seen any noticeable improvement in Austin & Gray's fitness / stamina from the beginning of the season until now.
Maybe their professional pride and the embarrassment of being dropped in favour of Chair & Willock might provoke the reaction we all want to see.
Warburton's hand has been forced by their lethargic performances to date, and if Dykes is'nt fit for Saturday, not sure where he goes with our front two.
If Dykes is fit and he reverts to playing a 2nd striker at home, I would like to see Gray run himself into the ground for the first 60 minutes and Austin to do likewise for the last 30 minutes with Adomah supporting. |
Oh yeah you could clearly see from Grey's performance after he came on v Blackburn that his professional pride had bee badly wounded alright | | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 16:09 - Mar 3 with 1330 views | Northernr |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 13:10 - Mar 3 by ParkRoyalR |
I get that but I have n't seen a short burst of anything from either Austin or Gray so far this season so its needs a drastic turnaround from them.
I was making the point, maybe badly, that we can all clearly see the noticeable improvement in Wallace's fitness / stamina after a few games back after injury, but I have not seen any noticeable improvement in Austin & Gray's fitness / stamina from the beginning of the season until now.
Maybe their professional pride and the embarrassment of being dropped in favour of Chair & Willock might provoke the reaction we all want to see.
Warburton's hand has been forced by their lethargic performances to date, and if Dykes is'nt fit for Saturday, not sure where he goes with our front two.
If Dykes is fit and he reverts to playing a 2nd striker at home, I would like to see Gray run himself into the ground for the first 60 minutes and Austin to do likewise for the last 30 minutes with Adomah supporting. |
I'd like to see Gray run full stop. |  | | |
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| Warburton post-Blackburn on 16:57 - Mar 3 with 1279 views | daveB |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 13:10 - Mar 3 by ParkRoyalR |
I get that but I have n't seen a short burst of anything from either Austin or Gray so far this season so its needs a drastic turnaround from them.
I was making the point, maybe badly, that we can all clearly see the noticeable improvement in Wallace's fitness / stamina after a few games back after injury, but I have not seen any noticeable improvement in Austin & Gray's fitness / stamina from the beginning of the season until now.
Maybe their professional pride and the embarrassment of being dropped in favour of Chair & Willock might provoke the reaction we all want to see.
Warburton's hand has been forced by their lethargic performances to date, and if Dykes is'nt fit for Saturday, not sure where he goes with our front two.
If Dykes is fit and he reverts to playing a 2nd striker at home, I would like to see Gray run himself into the ground for the first 60 minutes and Austin to do likewise for the last 30 minutes with Adomah supporting. |
I think Gray is a bit of a lost cause to be honest, not been impressed with his attitude all season. With Austin I think it's pace more than stamina that's a problem for him and always has been which is why he didn't go on to play for a bigger club than us or Southampton. He's clearly lost a yard of pace in the last few years and in a team that can be quite lethargic on the ball it shows up even more.
If they are all fit I'd start Dykes with Chair and Willock playing off him. If Dykes is out I'd do the same but with Austin.
It's a big weekend for us and a game we need to win, a lot of the other top 10 sides are playing each other, I think it's only us and Huddersfield who don't face another top 10 side so an opportunity to put a bad month behind us | | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 17:07 - Mar 3 with 1249 views | Northernr |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 16:57 - Mar 3 by daveB |
I think Gray is a bit of a lost cause to be honest, not been impressed with his attitude all season. With Austin I think it's pace more than stamina that's a problem for him and always has been which is why he didn't go on to play for a bigger club than us or Southampton. He's clearly lost a yard of pace in the last few years and in a team that can be quite lethargic on the ball it shows up even more.
If they are all fit I'd start Dykes with Chair and Willock playing off him. If Dykes is out I'd do the same but with Austin.
It's a big weekend for us and a game we need to win, a lot of the other top 10 sides are playing each other, I think it's only us and Huddersfield who don't face another top 10 side so an opportunity to put a bad month behind us |
Gray is a frustrating watch.
I just look at him and think - fck, I would not want to play against that guy at all. Long old night for the centre back here. He's big, strong, mobile, not exactly lightning fast but fairly pacy. He's got a powerful finish on him, no little skill when you look at the Derby goal. Spoke brilliantly after Derby, great attitude, focusing on areas for improvement, not dwelling on the win, really impressive. And then the only long old night anybody has is those of us unfortunate enough to have paid to be there watching him play.
He stands a yard behind the centre back, offside, pointing for the ball in behind, and then bitches and moans when it doesn't come (which it shouldn't, because he's obviously fcking offside). he never smashes anybody, never roughs anybody up, never shows short for a ball to feet. Doesn't challenge people in the air, ever. Warbs talks all the time about 'first contact, second ball', Gray just lets centre backs have that first contact to themselves, head it where they please.
He's infuriating. All the attributes you could need at this level are there.
Mind you, I used to say that about Ivan Toney when he was at Scunny and Northampton so I'm clearly a fcking idiot.
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 21:38 - Mar 3 with 1101 views | Myke |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 17:07 - Mar 3 by Northernr |
Gray is a frustrating watch.
I just look at him and think - fck, I would not want to play against that guy at all. Long old night for the centre back here. He's big, strong, mobile, not exactly lightning fast but fairly pacy. He's got a powerful finish on him, no little skill when you look at the Derby goal. Spoke brilliantly after Derby, great attitude, focusing on areas for improvement, not dwelling on the win, really impressive. And then the only long old night anybody has is those of us unfortunate enough to have paid to be there watching him play.
He stands a yard behind the centre back, offside, pointing for the ball in behind, and then bitches and moans when it doesn't come (which it shouldn't, because he's obviously fcking offside). he never smashes anybody, never roughs anybody up, never shows short for a ball to feet. Doesn't challenge people in the air, ever. Warbs talks all the time about 'first contact, second ball', Gray just lets centre backs have that first contact to themselves, head it where they please.
He's infuriating. All the attributes you could need at this level are there.
Mind you, I used to say that about Ivan Toney when he was at Scunny and Northampton so I'm clearly a fcking idiot.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I am glad someone else is frustrated with him, because as far as I am concerned he has been getting a very easy ride. I accept that he has directly contributed to a few additional points (Reading, Cardiff, Derby), without which we would be some distance off the play-offs. But like you, I feel he should be tearing it up at this level. He has all the attributes at this level, plus one you didn't mention, which is vast Championship experience. We talked about Bonne often been off-side a lot last season and put it down to inexperience, Grey has no such excuse.
There is plenty chatter since the window closed and we have faltered, that we should have brought a pacy striker. He might nor be Bolt, but he is well quick enough to stretch defences, if he could be even half-arsed. Not wishing to deal the 'told you so' (not you Clive, generally), card, but never wanted him signed and nothing has happened to change my mind.
Anyone with a modicum of professional pride, would have come on to the pitch against Blackburn absolutely determined to prove Warburton wrong - instead he didn't lift a leg. | | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 04:36 - Mar 4 with 1010 views | stainrods_elbow |
It's the one indecipherable blot on Warburton's performance this season, if it's true that he told Evil Les that we were fine for forwards, ta very much, instead of two sandwiches short of a picnic. Is there any other club in professional football right now who's playing without strikers because they're all useless or unavailable? Unfortunately, it's the fatal mistake that could also put paid to our play-off pretensions. | |
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| Warburton post-Blackburn on 09:53 - Mar 4 with 927 views | Northernr |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 21:38 - Mar 3 by Myke |
I am glad someone else is frustrated with him, because as far as I am concerned he has been getting a very easy ride. I accept that he has directly contributed to a few additional points (Reading, Cardiff, Derby), without which we would be some distance off the play-offs. But like you, I feel he should be tearing it up at this level. He has all the attributes at this level, plus one you didn't mention, which is vast Championship experience. We talked about Bonne often been off-side a lot last season and put it down to inexperience, Grey has no such excuse.
There is plenty chatter since the window closed and we have faltered, that we should have brought a pacy striker. He might nor be Bolt, but he is well quick enough to stretch defences, if he could be even half-arsed. Not wishing to deal the 'told you so' (not you Clive, generally), card, but never wanted him signed and nothing has happened to change my mind.
Anyone with a modicum of professional pride, would have come on to the pitch against Blackburn absolutely determined to prove Warburton wrong - instead he didn't lift a leg. |
The one thing I will say in his defence - and it is a small thing because, like I say, I think the ball doesn't come when he wants it more often than not because the guy playing it knows he's fcking offside - but Willock and particularly Chair can be a little prone to holding onto the ball too long, trying to do too much, trying to work their own shooting chance, rather than playing an early pass which might sometimes be best. | | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 10:52 - Mar 4 with 858 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 17:07 - Mar 3 by Northernr |
Gray is a frustrating watch.
I just look at him and think - fck, I would not want to play against that guy at all. Long old night for the centre back here. He's big, strong, mobile, not exactly lightning fast but fairly pacy. He's got a powerful finish on him, no little skill when you look at the Derby goal. Spoke brilliantly after Derby, great attitude, focusing on areas for improvement, not dwelling on the win, really impressive. And then the only long old night anybody has is those of us unfortunate enough to have paid to be there watching him play.
He stands a yard behind the centre back, offside, pointing for the ball in behind, and then bitches and moans when it doesn't come (which it shouldn't, because he's obviously fcking offside). he never smashes anybody, never roughs anybody up, never shows short for a ball to feet. Doesn't challenge people in the air, ever. Warbs talks all the time about 'first contact, second ball', Gray just lets centre backs have that first contact to themselves, head it where they please.
He's infuriating. All the attributes you could need at this level are there.
Mind you, I used to say that about Ivan Toney when he was at Scunny and Northampton so I'm clearly a fcking idiot.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Northern, you're initial under-estimation of Toney might explain, imo, your under-valuation of Dykes, both as an individual player and what he contributes to a Warburton team.
I would argue he has all the attributes you list as being needed at this level, but would accept he does'nt do them consistently enough, especially when coming back from an injury where he seems to take quite a few games to get back to his pre-injury form.
I think we all form an opinion on a player very early and we maybe don't change our mind as often or as quickly as we should (I took a fair while to recognise Willock's talent as for first maybe 10 games thought he looked too lightweight and not physical enough for championship football - wrong - plus how many fans changed their initial opinions on say Eze or Washington).
Many of our fans formed a negative opinion of Dykes on his first half season, although I would argue this was pre-Willock at his now best, and genuinely believe Mitrovic would struggle to get 10 goals in this division if serviced by two wingers (Chair & BOS) who play most of their football with their head-down looking at their feet or where the ball is.
Hoping Willock + Dykes are fully fit and firing tomorrow............ and Barbet takes a last minute corner........ take 2 and again drops it to the edge of the box...... where our late sub Austin is waiting to volley a top corner winner! | | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 12:39 - Mar 4 with 793 views | Northernr |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 10:52 - Mar 4 by ParkRoyalR |
Northern, you're initial under-estimation of Toney might explain, imo, your under-valuation of Dykes, both as an individual player and what he contributes to a Warburton team.
I would argue he has all the attributes you list as being needed at this level, but would accept he does'nt do them consistently enough, especially when coming back from an injury where he seems to take quite a few games to get back to his pre-injury form.
I think we all form an opinion on a player very early and we maybe don't change our mind as often or as quickly as we should (I took a fair while to recognise Willock's talent as for first maybe 10 games thought he looked too lightweight and not physical enough for championship football - wrong - plus how many fans changed their initial opinions on say Eze or Washington).
Many of our fans formed a negative opinion of Dykes on his first half season, although I would argue this was pre-Willock at his now best, and genuinely believe Mitrovic would struggle to get 10 goals in this division if serviced by two wingers (Chair & BOS) who play most of their football with their head-down looking at their feet or where the ball is.
Hoping Willock + Dykes are fully fit and firing tomorrow............ and Barbet takes a last minute corner........ take 2 and again drops it to the edge of the box...... where our late sub Austin is waiting to volley a top corner winner! |
I don't mind Dykes. I think he's very raw, but there's a lot of potential there. Certainly don't count myself in the anti camp on him. | | | |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 12:49 - Mar 4 with 778 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Warburton post-Blackburn on 12:39 - Mar 4 by Northernr |
I don't mind Dykes. I think he's very raw, but there's a lot of potential there. Certainly don't count myself in the anti camp on him. |
Fair enough, regards the anti-camp, just don't get those fans at all, given effort that lad puts in, straight up after some full-on head clashes this season, playing to final whistle against Forest with a bad knock etc
But then we do have a very sizeable minority who continually criticized Eze so probably explains alot. | | | |
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