| Not buying the not able to buy argument 23:23 - Apr 10 with 6211 views | Myke |
Never felt really comfortable with the concept that we can't compete with Fulham, Bournemouth etc budget wise therefore cannot expect to compete with them on the pitch. For virtually every QPR fan the recent game with Fulham was a foregone conclusion because 'Mitrovic' cost 18 mill' etc etc - how can we compete with that? Then they get comfortably beaten by a team with a smaller budget than ours. The game was over inside 25 minutes. And it was not a once off. Barnsley went within four minutes of beating them. Blackpool (just up from League 1 after a torrid few years) fell behind to a Mitrovic strike even earlier than we did, but battled back for a creditable draw. Luton (one of the smallest budgets in the league but in the play-offs) also fell behind to a Mitrovic strike but equalised. With Bournemouth, there are numerous more examples.
On any given day, with the right effort, attitude and application any club can beat any other - even 'moneybags' Fulham. I have seen next season written off already as a foregone conclusion with Fulham, Burnley (or Everton) and Watford a shoe-in. They are not, as SU are showing this year. We have as much chance as anyone of we give it a real go - just as we were this season until the end of January. For weeks now we have not been brave enough or intense enough (for reasons speculated on to death) and the results reflect this. But I don't accept that our squad 'cannot compete' against the Fulham's of the world. In the transfer market maybe, but on the pitch, over 90 minutes, 11 men against 11- not having it. |  | | |  |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 14:24 - Apr 12 with 1013 views | NewBee |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 13:29 - Apr 12 by ParkRoyalR |
Fortunate he became available was my point,
Frank had run out of ideas (but not excuses), the team were playing hoofball, Toney had scored maybe 3 or 4 goals from open play, Mbeumo was short on confidence, Burnley had taken Brentford apart in one of the most one-sided halves of premiership football I've seen (Raya out admittedly), the early season under-dog bounce had long gone,
Fortunately one of the world's best creative midfielders of the same nationality became available, that's fortunate in my opinion. |
Re your "lucky Eriksen became available", when CE first said last year that he wanted to play again, did anyone seriously think little old Brentford would be the club to sign him?
You make your luck - and BFC made sure they went out and got Eriksen while all the Big Boys dithered.
While I cannot agree with your overall assessment. Sure, Mbuemo was low on confidence for a bit - many 21 y.o.'s would be after hitting the woodwork 6 times in the first three months. And yes, away to Burnley was a bad day at the office, a terrible one, in fact, but that happens.
But over 32 PL games, Bees have only been beaten by 3 goals on two occasions: 3-0 at Liverpool and 4-1 at Soton - the rest were 8 defeats by a single goal and 6 by two goals, meaning no-one was hammering us at any stage.
As for Frank, the key is that he never "lost the dressing room" at any time, since the players never once stopped trying, even when results went against them. Nor was there even the slightest hint of his being replaced, which tells you what the Owner thinks of him.
The fact is, everyone at Brentford looks to underlying performances, rather than mere results, since if you get the performances right, then the results will eventually follow.
Which, to take it back to Warburton, means that if he's still got the dressing room, and underlying performances are still ok, then you should keep him.
On which points I have my own view, but I'll leave it others who are much closer than I to make that call. | | | |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 14:41 - Apr 12 with 948 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 14:24 - Apr 12 by NewBee |
Re your "lucky Eriksen became available", when CE first said last year that he wanted to play again, did anyone seriously think little old Brentford would be the club to sign him?
You make your luck - and BFC made sure they went out and got Eriksen while all the Big Boys dithered.
While I cannot agree with your overall assessment. Sure, Mbuemo was low on confidence for a bit - many 21 y.o.'s would be after hitting the woodwork 6 times in the first three months. And yes, away to Burnley was a bad day at the office, a terrible one, in fact, but that happens.
But over 32 PL games, Bees have only been beaten by 3 goals on two occasions: 3-0 at Liverpool and 4-1 at Soton - the rest were 8 defeats by a single goal and 6 by two goals, meaning no-one was hammering us at any stage.
As for Frank, the key is that he never "lost the dressing room" at any time, since the players never once stopped trying, even when results went against them. Nor was there even the slightest hint of his being replaced, which tells you what the Owner thinks of him.
The fact is, everyone at Brentford looks to underlying performances, rather than mere results, since if you get the performances right, then the results will eventually follow.
Which, to take it back to Warburton, means that if he's still got the dressing room, and underlying performances are still ok, then you should keep him.
On which points I have my own view, but I'll leave it others who are much closer than I to make that call. |
In my opinion Thomas Frank is a very lucky boy and has been bailed out by his Danish connections and back-room staff,
The club may have made their own luck there sure, but Frank had shown he had no idea how to change things in a very poor run, was resorting to petulance and some silly post match comments, and as a coach had a very lucky break, I'm sure even he of all people would'nt deny that. | | | |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 15:07 - Apr 12 with 905 views | Myke |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 14:41 - Apr 12 by ParkRoyalR |
In my opinion Thomas Frank is a very lucky boy and has been bailed out by his Danish connections and back-room staff,
The club may have made their own luck there sure, but Frank had shown he had no idea how to change things in a very poor run, was resorting to petulance and some silly post match comments, and as a coach had a very lucky break, I'm sure even he of all people would'nt deny that. |
Not sure one can get too excited about 'luck' It tends to ebb and flow throughout a season for most teams. I don't know if it can be scientifically proven that it 'evens itself out' over 38 or 46 games, but most fans would be able to point to moments when they have been fortunate or unfortunate either in games or with the bigger picture. For example, we were very unlucky to have a goal disallowed v Sunderland in the cup but VERY lucky Blackpool had a goal disallowed a few games later. We were unlucky to concede a late equaliser v Forest, but very lucky to get a later winner v Luton, and so on.
On the bigger picture, we took a gamble with 4 loanees in January 21, which was really Warburton's last throw of the dice and he was very lucky that all four contributed significantly to our upturn in fortunes. It could be argued that he has been unlucky that only Field has reproduced similar form this season - even when we were going well - so that is unfortunate for Warburton, and that's without getting into this year's loans at all.
I have seen very little of Brentford this season, but saw them absolutely batter Chelsea early on in the season and yet still lose 0-1. Very unlucky to do so. CE was a huge gamble on both sides (just like Chaz was for us a year ago) but it has worked out splendidly for both parties. He will contribute to keeping Brentford up - a hell of an achievement - and he has got back into the Danish team and will have the pick of clubs next season. Yes, there was an element of good fortune involved, it could have gone the other way, but over the course of the whole season, it's swings and roundabouts with regard to luck. | | | |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 15:14 - Apr 12 with 894 views | Northernr |
You guys have responded to this collapse by having some really quite interesting and in depth debates about various things on here this week. While I don't agree with all the points being made they're being made well across several threads.
Meanwhile, on Twitter, Preston has tipped QPR fans over into an absolute turning-on-each-other meltdown. |  | | |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 15:49 - Apr 12 with 825 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 15:14 - Apr 12 by Northernr |
You guys have responded to this collapse by having some really quite interesting and in depth debates about various things on here this week. While I don't agree with all the points being made they're being made well across several threads.
Meanwhile, on Twitter, Preston has tipped QPR fans over into an absolute turning-on-each-other meltdown. |
How Green was my Biscuit.
Oops sorry wrong thread!  |  |
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| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 16:33 - Apr 12 with 776 views | switchingcode |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 15:14 - Apr 12 by Northernr |
You guys have responded to this collapse by having some really quite interesting and in depth debates about various things on here this week. While I don't agree with all the points being made they're being made well across several threads.
Meanwhile, on Twitter, Preston has tipped QPR fans over into an absolute turning-on-each-other meltdown. |
Hopefully you are including myself in the “interesting “ 😃don’t want to upset your excellent site and overstay on this thread but I do find it and interesting debate.I do try and take on board the natural Bias on both sides. | | | |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 16:42 - Apr 12 with 741 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 16:33 - Apr 12 by switchingcode |
Hopefully you are including myself in the “interesting “ 😃don’t want to upset your excellent site and overstay on this thread but I do find it and interesting debate.I do try and take on board the natural Bias on both sides. |
Almost good to have you boys back, I was worried when you boys went very quiet when we were flying and you boys were collapsing, thought Gilham might have chained you up in his cellar😃
Still, being 1 of the 160 at Preston away and no doubt remembering the Target 10k campaign, at least i can't accuse you have being a half & halfer! | | | |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 16:47 - Apr 12 with 734 views | denhamhoop2 |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 09:36 - Apr 12 by switchingcode |
Just another example of a small club getting its recruitment right.The big clubs had the resources to outbid us for Eriksen also the fact that our manager has known him from his youth football days for Denmark would have helped.Not sure what stats you have seen that had us being relegated as we have never been in the bottom 3 and all the predictions sites I saw had us finishing around 13 th even during our losing run that was against most of the top 6 clubs.
Eriksen has been a massive plus but he has come in at a time when our injured players are back including our record signing Ajer and most importantly our keeper Raya.Hopefully he will sign permanently at the end of the season having 5 danish players on the pitch Sunday along with our head coach and assistant being Danes could help and his family want to stay in the area where they now live.
I agree you can’t really control injuries and that’s where luck comes into play. |
Would say timing in terms of who you play and when play a major part in differences between expected results and the actuality. Bar Man City and Liverpool who turn it on no matter what their next game is most other teams have priorities. Play West Ham in the middle of their biggest European match since the 60s is better than 2 weeks previous or play Palace before an FA Cup Semi Final or QPR' s case we played Coventry when Godden got appendicitis. It was one of the things Juventus exploited in the Moggiopoli affairwhere they fixed the referees to ensure the opposition's best player would be suspended when they played Juventus. | | | |
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| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 17:54 - Apr 12 with 673 views | switchingcode |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 16:42 - Apr 12 by ParkRoyalR |
Almost good to have you boys back, I was worried when you boys went very quiet when we were flying and you boys were collapsing, thought Gilham might have chained you up in his cellar😃
Still, being 1 of the 160 at Preston away and no doubt remembering the Target 10k campaign, at least i can't accuse you have being a half & halfer! |
Far too old to be a half halfer,yes remember target 10K. | | | |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 21:58 - Apr 12 with 530 views | ManinBlack |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 23:36 - Apr 11 by Myke |
Good post Manninblack. Couple of flaws in your otherwise excellent points. Firstly, Fulham were at home to Coventry. Sounds a bit pedantic I know but you would expect any team (especially leaders) to put on a committed performance at home regardless of the oppo. That applies to us also at HOME to Fulham. But if you compare our two results at Craven Cottage there is 4-1 defeat (and capitulation after they went 2-1 up) by us, versus a 3-1 victory for Coventry.
Secondly, your argument that they 'up their game' because it is a local derby, surely should be negated by us 'upping our game' too. After all it's a local derby for us also.
I remember when Warburton first arrived he moved out virtually the entire squad and while it was largely for budgetary reasons, he also said at the time that their was a losing mentality around the place, which he needed to purge. Seems like it may be back |
Myke thanks for your positive feedback.
We have to look at the fact of the matter that Coventry took 6 points off Fulham this season so I have my doubts Fulham gave 100% in both games. They are only a couple of wins from promotion and if they started the home game nonchalant it can be hard to get up to speed. They were two down in under 25 minutes at home possibly because they thought they only needed to turn up. I don't think they would start so poorly against us being a derby.
We also have to look at the fact Blackpool took 4 points off Fulham. It does suggest that they were not quite at it and harder to motivate themselves as there is a big difference playing Blackpool a season after Man City. I have no doubt that Fulham would put more into it at our place than Blackpool.
I agree with the view we should be up for it but our record in derbies this century is not good. I put a lot of that down to the fact that in most cases the opposition have better players and Brentford and Fulham take us very seriously and their better players see us off.
We can try really hard but if they have the quality then they will prevail. The thing is we are not spoilers so we don't stop them playing and that can be our downfall. Fulham looked like they could turn on a couple of gears when they beat us the other week. The facts speak for themselves we have won 2 of the last 19 meetings.
I fear that if Fulham and Brentford can become established like Palace in the Premier league we are just going to drift further and further away from them as they profit from the Premier riches. Right now you need money in any league to achieve goals as there is no level playing field above leagues 1 and 2.
Sorry if I depress people but it is how I see it, success can only be sustained now with cash. Real Madrid are not helping the mood either doing their best to lose right now. |  | | |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 22:24 - Apr 12 with 503 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
Dani Parejo and co. proving the original poster's point tonight. | | | |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 23:23 - Apr 12 with 467 views | NewBee |
| Not buying the not able to buy argument on 22:24 - Apr 12 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Dani Parejo and co. proving the original poster's point tonight. |
I'm not so sure they do.
Villareal are currently 7th in the league, 6 points off 6th and 26 points off first.
Last season they finished 7th, before that 5th, 14th and 5th.
And we know how in Spain, they have a Big Three, whereas England, for example, has a Big Six, so even 5th is nowhere..
Which all goes to show that Villareal are Cup specialists, possibly because it's club policy to concentrate on Europe, since they know they simply cannot compete in the league.
(I believe Sevilla may be something similar). | | | |
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