| South America - Ethnic backgrounds 09:23 - Jun 23 with 5509 views | Gloucs_R |
Excuse my ignorance, black people in South America.....was South America a large slave export trade area? I dont know much about the history of South America.
What is a native South American? Or is each country very different? |  |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 09:36 - Jun 23 with 2303 views | CiderwithRsie |
Someone on here will be more expert than me, but yes S America was a massive slave export area. When Britain banned it's own slave trade the RN spent a lot of time intercepting Spanish slave traders.
According to Henry Hobhouse in "Seeds of Change" a massive factor in slavery was that sickle cells - which is genetically common in W Africa - gives immunity to malaria, which is prevalent in the tropics.
I think that Seb could confirm that indigenous Americans [or whatever the correct term is] were more or less wiped out in Argentina and the population there are largely of European ancestry, but in Peru there are plenty of people of Incan ancestry. The Mayans are still alive and well and living in Mexico - IIRC it took archaeologists ages to realise that instead of puzzling about what the inscriptions on temples meant they could just go and ask the locals. |  | | |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 09:45 - Jun 23 with 2232 views | enfieldargh |
large German population in southern Brazil...anything to do with fleeing Nazis? |  |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 12:13 - Jun 23 with 2170 views | Alvarado |
Indigenous South Americans are descended from the ancient civilisations of the continent (of which there were many). For example the Aztecs lived where Mexico is now (and had essentially founded Mexico City), the Mayans were from (Central America esp Guatemala, Belize and Honduras) and the Incas inhabited the western coast of S America, ie Ecuador, Peru, Chile, SE Bolivia etc.
The old civilisations were very advanced in many ways in particular in agriculture and irrigation. The latter enabled them to develop bureaucracies and governance to high levels, while also developing particular strengths in mathematics, astrology, construction. For example the Mayans and Aztecs built stunning stone pyramids (a bit like the Egyptians'), while the Incas had a regular postal service, and because they worshipped the sun, they spent hundreds of years studying heavens and working out the trajectory of planets, comets etc. Some of the Aztec and Inca stone structures are especially constructed so that they align with astrological events on particular days of the year (like the solstice at Stonehenge, for example). Macchu Piccu (Incan site in the Andes) is an example.
The civilisations were different culturally and ethnically so yes, every country is still 'different'. They had gold and riches beyond belief, with intricately crafted jewellery and they used gold as a base metal extensively. Naturally this prompted the interest of exploring Spaniards and soon they arrived with large expeditionary forces. Most of the indigenous Indians were killed - either in battle (the Spanish had horses, guns and steel) or by smallpox and other European diseases to which the locals were particularly susceptible. Indigenous populations have also been 'diluted' through 'cross breeding' with Europeans etc. Now the 'indigenous' South Americans are pretty much confined to specific areas. Today Bolivia and parts of Peru retain some indigenous populations but places like Brazil, Argentina, Chile etc are mostly descended from European immigrants. And yes, black populations in Brazil are especially numerous because of the slave trade, introduced by the Spaniards in the 1500s and went on to the mid 19th century.
So there you have it. Interesting place. Interesting people. Pity we largely killed them all, oppressed the rest and dismissed their knowledge and learning. Much like woodchip on the wall, it must have seemed like a good idea at the time. |  | | |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 12:22 - Jun 23 with 2148 views | EalingRanger |
4 million slaves were imported to Brazil from Africa and slavery was only abolished there very late in the 19th century (largely due to British pressure). |  | | |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 12:51 - Jun 23 with 2101 views | kysersosaqpr |
Read a book called "white slaves". From 1640-1650 "over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and a further 300,000 sent to the West Indies and S. America as slaves". Never read that in the history books. | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 12:51 - Jun 23 with 2100 views | Gloucs_R |
Very helpful. 
Thanks | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 12:53 - Jun 23 with 2093 views | TheBlob |
There's a Welsh settlement in Patagonia. |  |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 12:57 - Jun 23 with 2080 views | kysersosaqpr |
And I'm sure dustin Hoffman found Germans in Brazil. | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 12:57 - Jun 23 with 2079 views | DaBurgh |
Continuing the ignorance thread. I was totally confused when I saw the Swiss team, I just thought it would be full of white players of German/French ancestry. But much to my surprise it seems to be a real melange of African/Hispanic/Arabic (judging by the names.)
So what's the story there?  |  | | |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:05 - Jun 23 with 2034 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 12:51 - Jun 23 by kysersosaqpr |
Read a book called "white slaves". From 1640-1650 "over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and a further 300,000 sent to the West Indies and S. America as slaves". Never read that in the history books. |
Any idea of the author, Keyser? |  |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:14 - Jun 23 with 2001 views | kysersosaqpr |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:05 - Jun 23 by BrianMcCarthy |
Any idea of the author, Keyser? |
Don Jordan and Michael Walsh, just looked it up to check name..
"White Cargo, the forgotten history of britains white slaves in the Americas"
Just read synopsis and didn't realise that African slaves were really expensive in the 1600s (50 sterling) whereas Irish slaves were only worth 5 sterling. So the English came up with a great idea to up their profit - they bred irish girls with African slaves - the new "mulattos" were worth more than pure irish, and the English traders didn't have to buy expensive African. Good old cattle market, eh. | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:18 - Jun 23 with 1978 views | TheBlob |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:14 - Jun 23 by kysersosaqpr |
Don Jordan and Michael Walsh, just looked it up to check name..
"White Cargo, the forgotten history of britains white slaves in the Americas"
Just read synopsis and didn't realise that African slaves were really expensive in the 1600s (50 sterling) whereas Irish slaves were only worth 5 sterling. So the English came up with a great idea to up their profit - they bred irish girls with African slaves - the new "mulattos" were worth more than pure irish, and the English traders didn't have to buy expensive African. Good old cattle market, eh. |
Indeed.And does it mention the fact that Dublin was a major slave market from the 9th to the 12th century?A big demand for British slaves made Ireland rich. | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:24 - Jun 23 with 1952 views | kysersosaqpr |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:18 - Jun 23 by TheBlob |
Indeed.And does it mention the fact that Dublin was a major slave market from the 9th to the 12th century?A big demand for British slaves made Ireland rich. |
Um, I think if you research that, it was the Vikings running that little racket. But hey, perhaps they were irish vikings | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:26 - Jun 23 with 1947 views | TheBlob |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:24 - Jun 23 by kysersosaqpr |
Um, I think if you research that, it was the Vikings running that little racket. But hey, perhaps they were irish vikings |
The Vikings SUPPLIED the racket,the slaves were sold to Saxon,Gaelic and other kingdoms.
If they were running things they would have cut out the middleman. [Post edited 23 Jun 2014 13:28]
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:28 - Jun 23 with 1936 views | kysersosaqpr |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:26 - Jun 23 by TheBlob |
The Vikings SUPPLIED the racket,the slaves were sold to Saxon,Gaelic and other kingdoms.
If they were running things they would have cut out the middleman. [Post edited 23 Jun 2014 13:28]
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So did it make Ireland rich... or the Vikings? | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:30 - Jun 23 with 1921 views | TheBlob |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:28 - Jun 23 by kysersosaqpr |
So did it make Ireland rich... or the Vikings? |
Both.
Slavery has been universal from time immemorial.Some say that whole ancient economies relied on slavery. | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:33 - Jun 23 with 1906 views | kysersosaqpr |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:30 - Jun 23 by TheBlob |
Both.
Slavery has been universal from time immemorial.Some say that whole ancient economies relied on slavery. |
And still do today, unfortunately. | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:36 - Jun 23 with 1891 views | TheBlob |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:33 - Jun 23 by kysersosaqpr |
And still do today, unfortunately. |
Absolutely it does to humanity's eternal shame.
The second voyage of the Mayflower was a consignment of slaves.Never tell you that in the Thanksgiving celebrations do they. [Post edited 23 Jun 2014 13:40]
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:42 - Jun 23 with 1877 views | kysersosaqpr |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:36 - Jun 23 by TheBlob |
Absolutely it does to humanity's eternal shame.
The second voyage of the Mayflower was a consignment of slaves.Never tell you that in the Thanksgiving celebrations do they. [Post edited 23 Jun 2014 13:40]
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Never knew that. Incredible when you get past the school history books and read into stuff properly, how feckin brainwashed we all are through biased one sided history. No doubt the same in all countries. | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:50 - Jun 23 with 1852 views | TheBlob |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:42 - Jun 23 by kysersosaqpr |
Never knew that. Incredible when you get past the school history books and read into stuff properly, how feckin brainwashed we all are through biased one sided history. No doubt the same in all countries. |
There's a bit of airbrushing going on as well,they mention the first voyage where there were white slaves who were prisoners of the British Crown imprisoned/transported for pursuing "religions of choice".The African slaves came later.
Lovely old world innit. | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:57 - Jun 23 with 1832 views | Gloucs_R |
Fascinating posts, keep it up.
I love history, always have but slavery was never mentioned or taught when I was at school. | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:59 - Jun 23 with 1827 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 13:14 - Jun 23 by kysersosaqpr |
Don Jordan and Michael Walsh, just looked it up to check name..
"White Cargo, the forgotten history of britains white slaves in the Americas"
Just read synopsis and didn't realise that African slaves were really expensive in the 1600s (50 sterling) whereas Irish slaves were only worth 5 sterling. So the English came up with a great idea to up their profit - they bred irish girls with African slaves - the new "mulattos" were worth more than pure irish, and the English traders didn't have to buy expensive African. Good old cattle market, eh. |
Thanks. Must definitely read that.
Absolutely astounding numbers! Had read a couple of books on the subject and knew that Irish slaves were captured and sold (Baltimore in Cork being sacked was one example) but I never knew the numbers were so high.
Ireland was certainly the home of a slave trade. It may have been ran by the Vikings firstly, then the Normans and finally the English, but there can be little doubt that Irish underlings also profited. Seems inconcievable that it could have been run without them in those centuries. Later down, yes, when the English were in total control, but not then.
Great conversation, lads. Also very interested in the original topic, so I'll get out of the way now! | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 14:03 - Jun 23 with 1819 views | THEBUSH |
I believe the original South Americans and Red Indians, came from what is now called Russia, thousands of years ago.
They came over a land bridge, which connected the continents, best to look it up on Wiki. |  | | |
| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 14:06 - Jun 23 with 1812 views | DWQPR |
One of Uncle Sepp's ways of buying votes from the smaller football federations!  | |
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| South America - Ethnic backgrounds on 14:09 - Jun 23 with 1803 views | simmo |
We had a similar discussion watching the Russia game yesterday, not a single black player in the Russia team, it made me wonder why, seeing as nearly every other nation across multiple continents have guys from other nations or ethnic backgrounds, Russia doesnt.
I have always been interested in the Holland-Suriname link too, wondered how the Netherlands had such a strong contingent of black players through the years, that went some way to explaining it.... |  |
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