| Fans Parliament 17:29 - May 21 with 101571 views | TwelveAngryMen |
Are we looking at the start a Tangerine Spring ?
Or is it an attempt to curb the growing influence of fans groups ?
Applications appear on first read of the announcement to be subject to vetting by the Club
The statement seems to infer that anyone who doesn't renew their ST is unlikely to be considered so that's anyone taking a principled NAPM stance this season to the back of the queue ! That will undoubtedly influence the dynamics of representation
Who elects the Board Rep ? I suspect its within the cabal of hand-picked representatives in which case hardly democratic - more like a Fans Cabinet
Which Club officials will they meet ? It does say to be fair to include Club directors so in reality that's suggesting it will involve Karl or Owen
It will be interesting to see how this pans out
http://www.blackpoolfc.co.uk/news/article/club-announces-launch-of-fans-parliame [Post edited 21 May 2015 17:35]
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| Fans Parliament on 00:11 - May 23 with 3846 views | Hertsseasider |
| Fans Parliament on 23:11 - May 22 by Plumbs |
The fing is Herts is they could all meet upstairs at Ron and Reggies and have a nice cappa' Rosie Lee, made by Auntie Vi and Madge from next door.
All sorted wivin and 'aar then over the sarf end of the river to sort them Richardsons 'art
Knarr watta mean treacle? |
Stroll on Plumbs me ole china, you've nailed it guvnor. |  |
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| Fans Parliament on 01:40 - May 23 with 3834 views | seasider13 |
Two moles well ensconced already, . |  |
| No man is rich enough to buy back his past. |
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| Fans Parliament on 09:30 - May 23 with 3804 views | BiggieSeasider |
Sorry. Late to the game here.
I can't see this with anything other than cynicism. I think the fans gripes are well known and understood, and they mostly stem down to one thing. Money. If the Oystons wanted to lose some of the heat they could do easily. Spend enough money for fans to believe they have something planned beyond the end of the season. Longer term contracts. Splash out on transfer fees. Maybe an infrastructure spend like undersoil heating whilst they fix the pitch. Actually develop the training ground. Any combination of these might go some way to calming some of the anger and maybe smoothing the way to peaceful discussions.
This parliament can't be seen as anything other then a delaying tactic. Give the impression that they are willing to listen to the fans. Maybe detract from the credibility of the BST? Create a bit of division between fans groups? And that's assuming they do actually select a diverse selection of views in good faith. I would argue that there isn't that much diversity in fans opinions about the club right now, so if they go for a spread of opinion it's unlikely to be truly representative.
If they really wanted to open a discussion with fans the offer is still there from the BST. I'm sure the BSA could be involved too. They need to show us the colour of the club's money. But they don't want to. And likely never will. It's not in the interests of the supporters to even engage with them until they do.
This club deserves owners who care about football. Who want to see the club thrive. To invest in the club. We can have as much dialogue with the owners as they want but ultimately talk is cheap. And I think that's the point. | |
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| Fans Parliament on 11:13 - May 23 with 3792 views | straightatthewall |
| Fans Parliament on 09:30 - May 23 by BiggieSeasider |
Sorry. Late to the game here.
I can't see this with anything other than cynicism. I think the fans gripes are well known and understood, and they mostly stem down to one thing. Money. If the Oystons wanted to lose some of the heat they could do easily. Spend enough money for fans to believe they have something planned beyond the end of the season. Longer term contracts. Splash out on transfer fees. Maybe an infrastructure spend like undersoil heating whilst they fix the pitch. Actually develop the training ground. Any combination of these might go some way to calming some of the anger and maybe smoothing the way to peaceful discussions.
This parliament can't be seen as anything other then a delaying tactic. Give the impression that they are willing to listen to the fans. Maybe detract from the credibility of the BST? Create a bit of division between fans groups? And that's assuming they do actually select a diverse selection of views in good faith. I would argue that there isn't that much diversity in fans opinions about the club right now, so if they go for a spread of opinion it's unlikely to be truly representative.
If they really wanted to open a discussion with fans the offer is still there from the BST. I'm sure the BSA could be involved too. They need to show us the colour of the club's money. But they don't want to. And likely never will. It's not in the interests of the supporters to even engage with them until they do.
This club deserves owners who care about football. Who want to see the club thrive. To invest in the club. We can have as much dialogue with the owners as they want but ultimately talk is cheap. And I think that's the point. |
Great post Biggie. Summing it up perfectly. |  |
| We got Bogdanovic, Oyston got very rich |
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| Fans Parliament on 12:53 - May 23 with 3776 views | terminallytangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 09:30 - May 23 by BiggieSeasider |
Sorry. Late to the game here.
I can't see this with anything other than cynicism. I think the fans gripes are well known and understood, and they mostly stem down to one thing. Money. If the Oystons wanted to lose some of the heat they could do easily. Spend enough money for fans to believe they have something planned beyond the end of the season. Longer term contracts. Splash out on transfer fees. Maybe an infrastructure spend like undersoil heating whilst they fix the pitch. Actually develop the training ground. Any combination of these might go some way to calming some of the anger and maybe smoothing the way to peaceful discussions.
This parliament can't be seen as anything other then a delaying tactic. Give the impression that they are willing to listen to the fans. Maybe detract from the credibility of the BST? Create a bit of division between fans groups? And that's assuming they do actually select a diverse selection of views in good faith. I would argue that there isn't that much diversity in fans opinions about the club right now, so if they go for a spread of opinion it's unlikely to be truly representative.
If they really wanted to open a discussion with fans the offer is still there from the BST. I'm sure the BSA could be involved too. They need to show us the colour of the club's money. But they don't want to. And likely never will. It's not in the interests of the supporters to even engage with them until they do.
This club deserves owners who care about football. Who want to see the club thrive. To invest in the club. We can have as much dialogue with the owners as they want but ultimately talk is cheap. And I think that's the point. |
I also think he should be talking to BST but having backed himself into a corner by saying he won't this is one way dialogue could be opened. BST will have many season ticket holders and so are in some way shape or form likely to be represented. But so should those who have bought season tickets but haven't joined an organisation.
Of course we all know what needs to be done - apart perhaps from the man who needs to do it - but a step in the right direction is always to be welcomed: and no doubt as with the BSA forums there will be full and open reporting to check on whether the fans major concerns have again been brought to the owners attention. We can either accept the status quo of continual protest or attempt to do something about it in a way which doesn't harm our football club. We can but try rather than let the drift, neglect and toxicity continue.
The only people who would see this as a retrograde step would be those who believe that with a final push the Os will be off. This seems highly unlikely. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 14:58 - May 23 with 3759 views | phil007tangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 12:53 - May 23 by terminallytangerine |
I also think he should be talking to BST but having backed himself into a corner by saying he won't this is one way dialogue could be opened. BST will have many season ticket holders and so are in some way shape or form likely to be represented. But so should those who have bought season tickets but haven't joined an organisation.
Of course we all know what needs to be done - apart perhaps from the man who needs to do it - but a step in the right direction is always to be welcomed: and no doubt as with the BSA forums there will be full and open reporting to check on whether the fans major concerns have again been brought to the owners attention. We can either accept the status quo of continual protest or attempt to do something about it in a way which doesn't harm our football club. We can but try rather than let the drift, neglect and toxicity continue.
The only people who would see this as a retrograde step would be those who believe that with a final push the Os will be off. This seems highly unlikely. |
You really are like a fifth columnist in our midst Terminaltangerine.
You seem to have no memory of events over recent years or recent months and no concept whatsoever of accountability (given you were on the wholly undemocratic BSA committee, hardly surprising).
The owners deserve nothing but our contempt and isolation, they made their bed. Whether they leave or not, their actions should have consequences.
Like an insane person you think repeatedly doing the same thing will somehow have a different result, dialogue has FAILED, wake up. Most fans don't want the owners to have yet another human shield to hide behind, try supporting your fellow fans for a change, rather than encouraging a sit down with someone who is happy suing them. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 15:39 - May 23 with 3748 views | terminallytangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 14:58 - May 23 by phil007tangerine |
You really are like a fifth columnist in our midst Terminaltangerine.
You seem to have no memory of events over recent years or recent months and no concept whatsoever of accountability (given you were on the wholly undemocratic BSA committee, hardly surprising).
The owners deserve nothing but our contempt and isolation, they made their bed. Whether they leave or not, their actions should have consequences.
Like an insane person you think repeatedly doing the same thing will somehow have a different result, dialogue has FAILED, wake up. Most fans don't want the owners to have yet another human shield to hide behind, try supporting your fellow fans for a change, rather than encouraging a sit down with someone who is happy suing them. |
I thought I was supporting the idea of supporters from BST who have sought dialogue in the past actually having some?
I'd be surprised also if most fans want the status quo to continue even though you seem to feel this is our finest hour.
Thank you for your helpful observations though. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 16:38 - May 23 with 3737 views | phil007tangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 15:39 - May 23 by terminallytangerine |
I thought I was supporting the idea of supporters from BST who have sought dialogue in the past actually having some?
I'd be surprised also if most fans want the status quo to continue even though you seem to feel this is our finest hour.
Thank you for your helpful observations though. |
Another utterly disingenuous reply from you Terminal.
The only dialogue BST want is the Oystons exit as you well know, and as they have stated openly.
Most fans want the Oystons gone as you also know. Yet you seem eager to accommodate the owners once again.
You should hang your hang in shame for backing talks with the Oystons long after most fans had woken up to the fact it was pointless. BSA provided a useful shield for the owners.
Even now you still haven't learnt your lesson, you want to help them build another..
You are part of the problem. | | | |
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| Fans Parliament on 17:27 - May 23 with 3721 views | terminallytangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 16:38 - May 23 by phil007tangerine |
Another utterly disingenuous reply from you Terminal.
The only dialogue BST want is the Oystons exit as you well know, and as they have stated openly.
Most fans want the Oystons gone as you also know. Yet you seem eager to accommodate the owners once again.
You should hang your hang in shame for backing talks with the Oystons long after most fans had woken up to the fact it was pointless. BSA provided a useful shield for the owners.
Even now you still haven't learnt your lesson, you want to help them build another..
You are part of the problem. |
Nothing disingenuous about it at all.
I would much prefer new owners to come in and buy the club but it doesn't look like it is going to happen. If it does I'll be the first to hang out the banners.
And in the meantime what do people who want to watch football at Bloomfield Road do?
If we accept the status quo we have another couple of seasons of internecine warfare to look forward to as the club spirals down to the conference.
Do you really think more pitch invasions will harm the Oystons more than the supporters? Has our situation improved since tennis-ball gate? Are potential managers and players going to be queuing up to enter a war zone?
I think that many of next seasons season ticket holders would rather see an end to current hostilities and would be ready to try anything - even dialogue with the evil Oystons - than to do nothing to try to mend the situation. If they don't then the parliament won't get off the ground.
You may be right that dialogue won't work but those who want to put football first may well think anything is worth trying. To do otherwise is to accept the status quo as both necessary and desirable.
To label anyone who doesn't think the current toxic climate is a good thing as a lickspittle bum spider Oyston stooge makes for a good slogan but doesn't add anything to the discussion about the best way of getting us out of the hole we now find ourselves in (and the role of the Oystons in digging this hole has never been denied by the supporters I know).
I look forward to hearing your alternative solution or what you think is the likely end result if we continue this war of attrition.
A dialogue rather than a harangue would be preferable though. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 17:48 - May 23 with 3711 views | hopinandwishin |
| Fans Parliament on 17:27 - May 23 by terminallytangerine |
Nothing disingenuous about it at all.
I would much prefer new owners to come in and buy the club but it doesn't look like it is going to happen. If it does I'll be the first to hang out the banners.
And in the meantime what do people who want to watch football at Bloomfield Road do?
If we accept the status quo we have another couple of seasons of internecine warfare to look forward to as the club spirals down to the conference.
Do you really think more pitch invasions will harm the Oystons more than the supporters? Has our situation improved since tennis-ball gate? Are potential managers and players going to be queuing up to enter a war zone?
I think that many of next seasons season ticket holders would rather see an end to current hostilities and would be ready to try anything - even dialogue with the evil Oystons - than to do nothing to try to mend the situation. If they don't then the parliament won't get off the ground.
You may be right that dialogue won't work but those who want to put football first may well think anything is worth trying. To do otherwise is to accept the status quo as both necessary and desirable.
To label anyone who doesn't think the current toxic climate is a good thing as a lickspittle bum spider Oyston stooge makes for a good slogan but doesn't add anything to the discussion about the best way of getting us out of the hole we now find ourselves in (and the role of the Oystons in digging this hole has never been denied by the supporters I know).
I look forward to hearing your alternative solution or what you think is the likely end result if we continue this war of attrition.
A dialogue rather than a harangue would be preferable though. |
And in the meantime what do people who want to watch football at Bloomfield Road do?
If we accept the status quo we have another couple of seasons of internecine warfare to look forward to as the club spirals down to the conference.
Do you really think more pitch invasions will harm the Oystons more than the supporters? Has our situation improved since tennis-ball gate? Are potential managers and players going to be queuing up to enter a war zone?
I think that many of next seasons season ticket holders would rather see an end to current hostilities and would be ready to try anything - even dialogue with the evil Oystons - than to do nothing to try to mend the situation. If they don't then the parliament won't get off the ground.
Whilst current hostilities may have general support, if you gave fans the option of hostilities and pitch invasions or good football and a winning mentality when they go to Bloomfield Road, I doubt if the man on the mobility scooter would have much support. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 18:01 - May 23 with 3709 views | terminallytangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 17:48 - May 23 by hopinandwishin |
And in the meantime what do people who want to watch football at Bloomfield Road do?
If we accept the status quo we have another couple of seasons of internecine warfare to look forward to as the club spirals down to the conference.
Do you really think more pitch invasions will harm the Oystons more than the supporters? Has our situation improved since tennis-ball gate? Are potential managers and players going to be queuing up to enter a war zone?
I think that many of next seasons season ticket holders would rather see an end to current hostilities and would be ready to try anything - even dialogue with the evil Oystons - than to do nothing to try to mend the situation. If they don't then the parliament won't get off the ground.
Whilst current hostilities may have general support, if you gave fans the option of hostilities and pitch invasions or good football and a winning mentality when they go to Bloomfield Road, I doubt if the man on the mobility scooter would have much support. |
I can't disagree with the majority of that but I think the man on the mobility scooter was given the support he was given because he symbolised one of KO's most stupid actions - namely his off the cuff offensive remarks, albeit in response to an unsolicited texting. For me it was the most poignant , and funniest, moment of the protest.
I would imagine that if a parliament ever does get off the ground that is one of the things that fans will want to say to him directly.
Good football requires investment and long term planning rather than short termism - which why losing our best young players is so criminal. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 18:28 - May 23 with 3696 views | BenJen |
| Fans Parliament on 18:01 - May 23 by terminallytangerine |
I can't disagree with the majority of that but I think the man on the mobility scooter was given the support he was given because he symbolised one of KO's most stupid actions - namely his off the cuff offensive remarks, albeit in response to an unsolicited texting. For me it was the most poignant , and funniest, moment of the protest.
I would imagine that if a parliament ever does get off the ground that is one of the things that fans will want to say to him directly.
Good football requires investment and long term planning rather than short termism - which why losing our best young players is so criminal. |
Short term-ism seems to be Karl's philosophy on running a football club. He must have shat himself when we got in the Prem! We were hardly ready when we got promoted to League One 14 years ago! Therein lies the whole problem with the club and sadly why a Parliament is being set up to appease fans but when you have a Chairman who is so dismissive of them and does it his own way away then it's a bit of a waste of time. | |
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| Fans Parliament on 19:24 - May 23 with 3683 views | phil007tangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 17:27 - May 23 by terminallytangerine |
Nothing disingenuous about it at all.
I would much prefer new owners to come in and buy the club but it doesn't look like it is going to happen. If it does I'll be the first to hang out the banners.
And in the meantime what do people who want to watch football at Bloomfield Road do?
If we accept the status quo we have another couple of seasons of internecine warfare to look forward to as the club spirals down to the conference.
Do you really think more pitch invasions will harm the Oystons more than the supporters? Has our situation improved since tennis-ball gate? Are potential managers and players going to be queuing up to enter a war zone?
I think that many of next seasons season ticket holders would rather see an end to current hostilities and would be ready to try anything - even dialogue with the evil Oystons - than to do nothing to try to mend the situation. If they don't then the parliament won't get off the ground.
You may be right that dialogue won't work but those who want to put football first may well think anything is worth trying. To do otherwise is to accept the status quo as both necessary and desirable.
To label anyone who doesn't think the current toxic climate is a good thing as a lickspittle bum spider Oyston stooge makes for a good slogan but doesn't add anything to the discussion about the best way of getting us out of the hole we now find ourselves in (and the role of the Oystons in digging this hole has never been denied by the supporters I know).
I look forward to hearing your alternative solution or what you think is the likely end result if we continue this war of attrition.
A dialogue rather than a harangue would be preferable though. |
TT -Why bring up BST when you knew their position, that WAS disingenuous.
You don't know how close the owners are to selling than anyone else. What we do know is this-.
Their circle of support grows ever smaller; losing BSA, their puppet Lee Clark, national and indeed international media castigating their stewardship, thousands of fans walking away, sponsors pulling out, protests , demos, a pitch invasion, fans storming the Director's box, FA charges, more court cases pending, Valerie Belokon legal action, their reputation within the footballing world at an all time low, ex-players and mangers adding to the chorus -ALL this and much more at a time when the last of the money has gone -no more parachute payments.
If ever their was a time for them to leave it's now. YET at this point you want to give them a break???
Regardless of whether they leave or not -the Oystons must be held accountable for their actions as I have already said. Nobody welcomes this toxicity, the Oystons have created it and have done nothing to ease it -quite the reverse, they have appeared happy to ratchet things up.
Bizarrely you also seem to think the Oystons don't know what needs to be done, they need telling. Are you completely insane?? Even 20's that bulwark of obstinacy has finally conceded that the time for talk is OVER, action is what is required.
The relationship between fans and the club has irretrievably broken down, save for a handful of apologists like yourself who still like to give them yet another chance. If only you had more respect for your fellow fans than you do the owners, you know personally what some of them have been through as a direct result of the Oystons.
Actions have consequences, people have to held accountable. To most fans the club is now dead, the football immaterial -what is there left to support? Eleven random figures running around for a season before being released, no ambition, no investment and any success marred by the fact the clubs reputation has been dragged through the dirt and any riches will in all likelihood be diverted away again.
So what are you supporting?
The spirit of the club is gone. It will only return when the Oystons are gone -not matter how long it takes or what division we are in, that's when supporters will return and will be united again. Until that day the fight goes on. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 19:37 - May 23 with 3679 views | Wronga |
| Fans Parliament on 19:24 - May 23 by phil007tangerine |
TT -Why bring up BST when you knew their position, that WAS disingenuous.
You don't know how close the owners are to selling than anyone else. What we do know is this-.
Their circle of support grows ever smaller; losing BSA, their puppet Lee Clark, national and indeed international media castigating their stewardship, thousands of fans walking away, sponsors pulling out, protests , demos, a pitch invasion, fans storming the Director's box, FA charges, more court cases pending, Valerie Belokon legal action, their reputation within the footballing world at an all time low, ex-players and mangers adding to the chorus -ALL this and much more at a time when the last of the money has gone -no more parachute payments.
If ever their was a time for them to leave it's now. YET at this point you want to give them a break???
Regardless of whether they leave or not -the Oystons must be held accountable for their actions as I have already said. Nobody welcomes this toxicity, the Oystons have created it and have done nothing to ease it -quite the reverse, they have appeared happy to ratchet things up.
Bizarrely you also seem to think the Oystons don't know what needs to be done, they need telling. Are you completely insane?? Even 20's that bulwark of obstinacy has finally conceded that the time for talk is OVER, action is what is required.
The relationship between fans and the club has irretrievably broken down, save for a handful of apologists like yourself who still like to give them yet another chance. If only you had more respect for your fellow fans than you do the owners, you know personally what some of them have been through as a direct result of the Oystons.
Actions have consequences, people have to held accountable. To most fans the club is now dead, the football immaterial -what is there left to support? Eleven random figures running around for a season before being released, no ambition, no investment and any success marred by the fact the clubs reputation has been dragged through the dirt and any riches will in all likelihood be diverted away again.
So what are you supporting?
The spirit of the club is gone. It will only return when the Oystons are gone -not matter how long it takes or what division we are in, that's when supporters will return and will be united again. Until that day the fight goes on. |
If ever a thread demonstrated why this site gets a better mix of views rather than the polarised ones which are started on the other forums I would say this is it. I don't like the Oyston's and want them gone but similarly I now want an end to the anarchic side of the protests. There are more than one way to skin a rabbit and for me the time has come for dialogue, discussion and direct action. This FP is the ideal opportunity for those who feel the most passionate to have their voices heard. The new Fans Parliament would be as well coming on a forum like this and seeking ALL views not just the disenchanted. For me, as a 2 year ST holder I will put my name forward and if chosen I have a long list of questions that need answering. If that is with the Oyston's then so be it, I can deal with that because I want the best for my football club.
The O's are under no obligation to sell, are very clear now what the fans, the town and football think of them and for once I'd say the fans have the upper hand. If the FP is ignored then for me there goes their final chance to listen to how the club SHOULD be run. BSA were too much in agreeance, BST seem too far the other way - a group of fans who can represent everyone does have a chance of turning this debacle around. | |
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| Fans Parliament on 19:56 - May 23 with 3670 views | Ormerod89 |
| Fans Parliament on 09:30 - May 23 by BiggieSeasider |
Sorry. Late to the game here.
I can't see this with anything other than cynicism. I think the fans gripes are well known and understood, and they mostly stem down to one thing. Money. If the Oystons wanted to lose some of the heat they could do easily. Spend enough money for fans to believe they have something planned beyond the end of the season. Longer term contracts. Splash out on transfer fees. Maybe an infrastructure spend like undersoil heating whilst they fix the pitch. Actually develop the training ground. Any combination of these might go some way to calming some of the anger and maybe smoothing the way to peaceful discussions.
This parliament can't be seen as anything other then a delaying tactic. Give the impression that they are willing to listen to the fans. Maybe detract from the credibility of the BST? Create a bit of division between fans groups? And that's assuming they do actually select a diverse selection of views in good faith. I would argue that there isn't that much diversity in fans opinions about the club right now, so if they go for a spread of opinion it's unlikely to be truly representative.
If they really wanted to open a discussion with fans the offer is still there from the BST. I'm sure the BSA could be involved too. They need to show us the colour of the club's money. But they don't want to. And likely never will. It's not in the interests of the supporters to even engage with them until they do.
This club deserves owners who care about football. Who want to see the club thrive. To invest in the club. We can have as much dialogue with the owners as they want but ultimately talk is cheap. And I think that's the point. |
Thought Biggie's post was about as close to my opinion as anyone .. interesting thing will be .. will those fans on the FP be identified and bearing in mind the stick Glenn Bowley has had for being in KO's pocket, would the spokesperson really want their name made public? | |
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| Fans Parliament on 20:30 - May 23 with 2996 views | BringBackTheRedRoom |
| Fans Parliament on 09:30 - May 23 by BiggieSeasider |
Sorry. Late to the game here.
I can't see this with anything other than cynicism. I think the fans gripes are well known and understood, and they mostly stem down to one thing. Money. If the Oystons wanted to lose some of the heat they could do easily. Spend enough money for fans to believe they have something planned beyond the end of the season. Longer term contracts. Splash out on transfer fees. Maybe an infrastructure spend like undersoil heating whilst they fix the pitch. Actually develop the training ground. Any combination of these might go some way to calming some of the anger and maybe smoothing the way to peaceful discussions.
This parliament can't be seen as anything other then a delaying tactic. Give the impression that they are willing to listen to the fans. Maybe detract from the credibility of the BST? Create a bit of division between fans groups? And that's assuming they do actually select a diverse selection of views in good faith. I would argue that there isn't that much diversity in fans opinions about the club right now, so if they go for a spread of opinion it's unlikely to be truly representative.
If they really wanted to open a discussion with fans the offer is still there from the BST. I'm sure the BSA could be involved too. They need to show us the colour of the club's money. But they don't want to. And likely never will. It's not in the interests of the supporters to even engage with them until they do.
This club deserves owners who care about football. Who want to see the club thrive. To invest in the club. We can have as much dialogue with the owners as they want but ultimately talk is cheap. And I think that's the point. |
Great post Biggie.
Had a few days to think about this this, and for various reason really don't like it, most summed up in Biggie's post.
Selection of the members, transparency, timescale, trust, will members names being made public etc.... the list just goes on.
If the Oystons are serious about wanting dialogue with fans then I suggest
a) Drop all pending legal actions against fans.
b) Use the FSF to talk to BST, BSA and nonaligned fans to set up a proper parliament.
or
c) Just sell up. |  |
| ‘Where there is harmony, may we bring discord. Where there is truth, may we bring error. Where there is faith, may we bring doubt. And where there is hope, may we bring despair’ |
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| Fans Parliament on 20:50 - May 23 with 2978 views | terminallytangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 20:30 - May 23 by BringBackTheRedRoom |
Great post Biggie.
Had a few days to think about this this, and for various reason really don't like it, most summed up in Biggie's post.
Selection of the members, transparency, timescale, trust, will members names being made public etc.... the list just goes on.
If the Oystons are serious about wanting dialogue with fans then I suggest
a) Drop all pending legal actions against fans.
b) Use the FSF to talk to BST, BSA and nonaligned fans to set up a proper parliament.
or
c) Just sell up. |
So more of the same and anyone who wants to see an end to the war and return to putting football first is 'an apologist' Phil?
This is all very well if we are on the point of a take over and the BST bid is successful (and it would solve a lot of problems if it were) but what if it isn't going to happen because nobody would want to buy a club in league 1 for the sums being asked for and the Os don't want to sell?
Of course the Os are to blame for the current debacle but punishing them by making our club unsupportable will harm future generations of supporters who will never be able to experience what we have.
In the meantime supporters who care about the club and have invested in the club by buying season tickets surely have a right to make their own minds up without being abused by those who have washed their hands of the club and want to put punishing the Os at the top of their agenda.
Accepting the status quo is the politics of despair.
[Post edited 23 May 2015 21:12]
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| Fans Parliament on 21:14 - May 23 with 2968 views | ribble |
| Fans Parliament on 19:24 - May 23 by phil007tangerine |
TT -Why bring up BST when you knew their position, that WAS disingenuous.
You don't know how close the owners are to selling than anyone else. What we do know is this-.
Their circle of support grows ever smaller; losing BSA, their puppet Lee Clark, national and indeed international media castigating their stewardship, thousands of fans walking away, sponsors pulling out, protests , demos, a pitch invasion, fans storming the Director's box, FA charges, more court cases pending, Valerie Belokon legal action, their reputation within the footballing world at an all time low, ex-players and mangers adding to the chorus -ALL this and much more at a time when the last of the money has gone -no more parachute payments.
If ever their was a time for them to leave it's now. YET at this point you want to give them a break???
Regardless of whether they leave or not -the Oystons must be held accountable for their actions as I have already said. Nobody welcomes this toxicity, the Oystons have created it and have done nothing to ease it -quite the reverse, they have appeared happy to ratchet things up.
Bizarrely you also seem to think the Oystons don't know what needs to be done, they need telling. Are you completely insane?? Even 20's that bulwark of obstinacy has finally conceded that the time for talk is OVER, action is what is required.
The relationship between fans and the club has irretrievably broken down, save for a handful of apologists like yourself who still like to give them yet another chance. If only you had more respect for your fellow fans than you do the owners, you know personally what some of them have been through as a direct result of the Oystons.
Actions have consequences, people have to held accountable. To most fans the club is now dead, the football immaterial -what is there left to support? Eleven random figures running around for a season before being released, no ambition, no investment and any success marred by the fact the clubs reputation has been dragged through the dirt and any riches will in all likelihood be diverted away again.
So what are you supporting?
The spirit of the club is gone. It will only return when the Oystons are gone -not matter how long it takes or what division we are in, that's when supporters will return and will be united again. Until that day the fight goes on. |
What I find interesting about this debate is how eager some of the hardcore are to pass over the chance to tell KO face to face how shockingly poor he is at running the club and should sell up. I'd have thought they'd jump at the chance, but there you go.
The new forum may well prove to be a sop to the fans but given it is highly unlikely the club will be able to pack the Parliament entirely with pro-Oyston members, it strikes me that this could be another means of applying pressure on the Oystons, assuming the right people get in the room. The suggestion that we obstinately deny ourselves the opportunity seems rather bizarre to me.
It may well be that putting a well argued point across the table will not bring about the changes we all want, but then neither necessarily will standing outside the ground singing 'Oyston Out' or boycotting matches.
What is there to lose? [Post edited 23 May 2015 21:18]
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| Fans Parliament on 21:17 - May 23 with 2963 views | phil007tangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 19:37 - May 23 by Wronga |
If ever a thread demonstrated why this site gets a better mix of views rather than the polarised ones which are started on the other forums I would say this is it. I don't like the Oyston's and want them gone but similarly I now want an end to the anarchic side of the protests. There are more than one way to skin a rabbit and for me the time has come for dialogue, discussion and direct action. This FP is the ideal opportunity for those who feel the most passionate to have their voices heard. The new Fans Parliament would be as well coming on a forum like this and seeking ALL views not just the disenchanted. For me, as a 2 year ST holder I will put my name forward and if chosen I have a long list of questions that need answering. If that is with the Oyston's then so be it, I can deal with that because I want the best for my football club.
The O's are under no obligation to sell, are very clear now what the fans, the town and football think of them and for once I'd say the fans have the upper hand. If the FP is ignored then for me there goes their final chance to listen to how the club SHOULD be run. BSA were too much in agreeance, BST seem too far the other way - a group of fans who can represent everyone does have a chance of turning this debacle around. |
Wronga- "The new Fans Parliament would be as well coming on a forum like this and seeking ALL views not just the disenchanted. "
I don't know a single fan who is not disenchanted, do you?
Quite an arrogant remark saying you would talk with the Oystons because you want the best for the club -what, like the rest of us don't ?
You also say BSA were in too much agreeance- well they didn't get their way either and if you think a few extra strong words will make a difference when protests, demos and literally YEARS of discussions haven't made a jot of difference then you really need to give your head a shake.
You also overlook the fact that the positions aren't elected by fans themselves but selected by the club (if you buy the independent panel guff then I give up).
So in summary you expect 12 fans who meet just 4 times a year with the club to somehow miraculously turn things around. 
Let me ask you something, have you attended a single protest or demonstration, joined BST, attended a single supporters meeting, written a single letter, contacted the media, your MP or the club directly?
Or do you sit in the west and say shush when there are anti-oyston chants?
Honest answer.
The reason I ask is this "I now want an end to the anarchic side of the protests."
Those protests are by your fellow fans, and have been largely restrained. Even the most extreme, on the final day, were described as largely peaceful by the police -if this was Spain or Italy things would be at a wholly different level I'm sure.
The protests will only end when the Oystons leave -no amount of talking will change that, so accept it, that's the reality. So what have you done to back your fellow fans? [Post edited 23 May 2015 21:35]
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| Fans Parliament on 21:28 - May 23 with 2952 views | Mr_Brightside |
| Fans Parliament on 21:17 - May 23 by phil007tangerine |
Wronga- "The new Fans Parliament would be as well coming on a forum like this and seeking ALL views not just the disenchanted. "
I don't know a single fan who is not disenchanted, do you?
Quite an arrogant remark saying you would talk with the Oystons because you want the best for the club -what, like the rest of us don't ?
You also say BSA were in too much agreeance- well they didn't get their way either and if you think a few extra strong words will make a difference when protests, demos and literally YEARS of discussions haven't made a jot of difference then you really need to give your head a shake.
You also overlook the fact that the positions aren't elected by fans themselves but selected by the club (if you buy the independent panel guff then I give up).
So in summary you expect 12 fans who meet just 4 times a year with the club to somehow miraculously turn things around.
Let me ask you something, have you attended a single protest or demonstration, joined BST, attended a single supporters meeting, written a single letter, contacted the media, your MP or the club directly?
Or do you sit in the west and say shush when there are anti-oyston chants?
Honest answer.
The reason I ask is this "I now want an end to the anarchic side of the protests."
Those protests are by your fellow fans, and have been largely restrained. Even the most extreme, on the final day, were described as largely peaceful by the police -if this was Spain or Italy things would be at a wholly different level I'm sure.
The protests will only end when the Oystons leave -no amount of talking will change that, so accept it, that's the reality. So what have you done to back your fellow fans? [Post edited 23 May 2015 21:35]
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The Oyston's had their chance a long time ago and the only way I would ever buy in to one of their ideas again is if they were transparent in their dealings, invested in a side which is more than freebies, loans and has beens and return all monies from fans they've sued and issue a full and frank apology for the mess the club has become. The removal of Karl and any bans lifted on fans who have been standing up to them would be a start but still not enough to ever trust them again. | |
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| Fans Parliament on 21:31 - May 23 with 2950 views | phil007tangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 20:50 - May 23 by terminallytangerine |
So more of the same and anyone who wants to see an end to the war and return to putting football first is 'an apologist' Phil?
This is all very well if we are on the point of a take over and the BST bid is successful (and it would solve a lot of problems if it were) but what if it isn't going to happen because nobody would want to buy a club in league 1 for the sums being asked for and the Os don't want to sell?
Of course the Os are to blame for the current debacle but punishing them by making our club unsupportable will harm future generations of supporters who will never be able to experience what we have.
In the meantime supporters who care about the club and have invested in the club by buying season tickets surely have a right to make their own minds up without being abused by those who have washed their hands of the club and want to put punishing the Os at the top of their agenda.
Accepting the status quo is the politics of despair.
[Post edited 23 May 2015 21:12]
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TT- My God you are utterly shameless.
"anyone who wants to see an end to the war and return to putting football first is 'an apologist' Phil? "
You hijack the slogan of BST and try to make yourself look like Ghandi. You are Neville Chamberlain.
The despair is your idiocy and the handful like you. Thousands of fans are working to CHANGE the status quo ,it is YOU who seems very happy to maintain it. It is the Oystons that are making the club unsupportable NOT the fans. Double relegation beckons - and what action do you expect to see this summer from the Oystons?
Meanwhile you want to help them open another talking shop -you couldn't make it up.
BST and the TK's are working very hard to change the status quo, so either get on board or out of the way. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 21:41 - May 23 with 2937 views | Poolman |
| Fans Parliament on 21:31 - May 23 by phil007tangerine |
TT- My God you are utterly shameless.
"anyone who wants to see an end to the war and return to putting football first is 'an apologist' Phil? "
You hijack the slogan of BST and try to make yourself look like Ghandi. You are Neville Chamberlain.
The despair is your idiocy and the handful like you. Thousands of fans are working to CHANGE the status quo ,it is YOU who seems very happy to maintain it. It is the Oystons that are making the club unsupportable NOT the fans. Double relegation beckons - and what action do you expect to see this summer from the Oystons?
Meanwhile you want to help them open another talking shop -you couldn't make it up.
BST and the TK's are working very hard to change the status quo, so either get on board or out of the way. |
ST and the TK's are working very hard to change the status quo, so either get on board or out of the way. Phil - going off people I speak to there is a genuine unease at some of what is going on with these fan groups with the main one being organised disruption to events like the Neil Diamond concert and any further action on the pitch. The fastest way these groups will lose support is by disrupting the rights of people to watch what they want without interruption. | |
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| Fans Parliament on 21:46 - May 23 with 2932 views | ribble |
| Fans Parliament on 21:41 - May 23 by Poolman |
ST and the TK's are working very hard to change the status quo, so either get on board or out of the way. Phil - going off people I speak to there is a genuine unease at some of what is going on with these fan groups with the main one being organised disruption to events like the Neil Diamond concert and any further action on the pitch. The fastest way these groups will lose support is by disrupting the rights of people to watch what they want without interruption. |
I'm sure I've seen something from TK saying they will not and do not support any disruption of the concert. Quite right too, that would be an own goal of KO proportions. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 21:54 - May 23 with 2925 views | steve_g |
| Fans Parliament on 09:30 - May 23 by BiggieSeasider |
Sorry. Late to the game here.
I can't see this with anything other than cynicism. I think the fans gripes are well known and understood, and they mostly stem down to one thing. Money. If the Oystons wanted to lose some of the heat they could do easily. Spend enough money for fans to believe they have something planned beyond the end of the season. Longer term contracts. Splash out on transfer fees. Maybe an infrastructure spend like undersoil heating whilst they fix the pitch. Actually develop the training ground. Any combination of these might go some way to calming some of the anger and maybe smoothing the way to peaceful discussions.
This parliament can't be seen as anything other then a delaying tactic. Give the impression that they are willing to listen to the fans. Maybe detract from the credibility of the BST? Create a bit of division between fans groups? And that's assuming they do actually select a diverse selection of views in good faith. I would argue that there isn't that much diversity in fans opinions about the club right now, so if they go for a spread of opinion it's unlikely to be truly representative.
If they really wanted to open a discussion with fans the offer is still there from the BST. I'm sure the BSA could be involved too. They need to show us the colour of the club's money. But they don't want to. And likely never will. It's not in the interests of the supporters to even engage with them until they do.
This club deserves owners who care about football. Who want to see the club thrive. To invest in the club. We can have as much dialogue with the owners as they want but ultimately talk is cheap. And I think that's the point. |
1. It's a crap name - although like a Parliament there are so many differing views you'll never get fans to agree on what should be taken to the board
2. Why not just meet with representatives from the existing fan groups
3. What's the qualification process? Is it just apply and you're in the hat
.. and finally is this just lip service or are the O's ready to listen to the fans? If they truly are then the first thing they'd do is leave!! | |
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| Fans Parliament on 22:01 - May 23 with 2920 views | terminallytangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 21:31 - May 23 by phil007tangerine |
TT- My God you are utterly shameless.
"anyone who wants to see an end to the war and return to putting football first is 'an apologist' Phil? "
You hijack the slogan of BST and try to make yourself look like Ghandi. You are Neville Chamberlain.
The despair is your idiocy and the handful like you. Thousands of fans are working to CHANGE the status quo ,it is YOU who seems very happy to maintain it. It is the Oystons that are making the club unsupportable NOT the fans. Double relegation beckons - and what action do you expect to see this summer from the Oystons?
Meanwhile you want to help them open another talking shop -you couldn't make it up.
BST and the TK's are working very hard to change the status quo, so either get on board or out of the way. |
Nothing to be ashamed of Phil.
In my view double relegation is inevitable if we do not explore every avenue to halt the slide and direct talks between BST and the owners would be a good thing, but that is for the members to decide.
No doubt you disagree and wish to carry on regardless. | | | |
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