| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking 20:06 - Sep 29 with 4198 views | davidab2202 |
Agreed that in no way could we be considered to have started the season well,but to perhaps take a step back in so far as the teams who we have lost too are five of the teams in the top seven who have played a total of 49 games and have lost just 5 of these games which means that it isn't only us that have struggled against them.
The hope is that when our fixtures are hopefully a little bit kinder that we can improve on our start to the season.The teams we have beaten are teams who are around us in the league but who may not have had the testing fixtures that have been our lot at the start of the season |  | | |  |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 20:58 - Sep 29 with 4103 views | YouTubeDale |
I agree we have had a poor mix of games but when we used to play the top teams we used to beat them many a time. We had that “no fear” mentality which meant a very positive attacking style. We no longer have that ethos. Keith should be leaving at least 2 upfront, and why not 3, when we defend corners. Today we passed the ball back too many times when we had the ball on the half way line, that’s not positive football.
I thought the spirit of the team was good today BUT Keith needs to ramp it up by another 1000%. He needs to ignite the players in a massive way, that siege mentality, and we should see the evidence in the body language of the players. |  |
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 21:41 - Sep 29 with 4050 views | JimmyRustler |
To be honest, I think it's more to do with the fact that when we've played top teams over the years at home, we've competed and give the large majority of them a run for their money. In the last few years, we've gone from being one of the hardest teams to beat on our own patch to a team that rolls over at the first sign of real pressure and I think that's what a lot of people (including myself) find so galling |  | | |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 10:26 - Sep 30 with 3796 views | D_Alien |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 20:58 - Sep 29 by YouTubeDale |
I agree we have had a poor mix of games but when we used to play the top teams we used to beat them many a time. We had that “no fear” mentality which meant a very positive attacking style. We no longer have that ethos. Keith should be leaving at least 2 upfront, and why not 3, when we defend corners. Today we passed the ball back too many times when we had the ball on the half way line, that’s not positive football.
I thought the spirit of the team was good today BUT Keith needs to ramp it up by another 1000%. He needs to ignite the players in a massive way, that siege mentality, and we should see the evidence in the body language of the players. |
At 1-1, the game was there to be won and although Pompey looked the more likely, I thought we committed too many players forward at times, leaving ourselves exposed against players good enough to take advantage
I'd have settled for a draw and kept it tight. That doesn't always work but if it did we'd have people getting on Hilly's back for not going all out to win
Being hard to beat sometimes requires a more defensive approach especially against top teams. Seems we can't erm... win
[Post edited 30 Sep 2018 10:27]
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 11:28 - Sep 30 with 3686 views | James1980 |
On a positive note 11 points every 10 games will equal just over the magic 50 points. | |
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 11:52 - Sep 30 with 3640 views | tony_roch975 |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 21:41 - Sep 29 by JimmyRustler |
To be honest, I think it's more to do with the fact that when we've played top teams over the years at home, we've competed and give the large majority of them a run for their money. In the last few years, we've gone from being one of the hardest teams to beat on our own patch to a team that rolls over at the first sign of real pressure and I think that's what a lot of people (including myself) find so galling |
You can give them 'a run for their money' provided 'their' money is close to yours - the trickle down economics of football over the last 20 years means £1M players now regularly featuring in League 1 teams. Of course we'd all want to be able to play 'no fear' attacking football with Premier-class players like Lambert, Holt, Murray, Le Fondre, Buckley, Dawson and Mendez-Laing and once in a while the underdog will prevail (Dale v Spurs) but the days of little clubs poaching top class players and indeed of small clubs competing in any league may well be gone. By attendances and finance we're a Conference team at best - just to stay in the EFL would be over-achieving, to stay in League 1 is nothing short of miraculous. | |
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 11:54 - Sep 30 with 3638 views | DaleiLama |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 10:26 - Sep 30 by D_Alien |
At 1-1, the game was there to be won and although Pompey looked the more likely, I thought we committed too many players forward at times, leaving ourselves exposed against players good enough to take advantage
I'd have settled for a draw and kept it tight. That doesn't always work but if it did we'd have people getting on Hilly's back for not going all out to win
Being hard to beat sometimes requires a more defensive approach especially against top teams. Seems we can't erm... win
[Post edited 30 Sep 2018 10:27]
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Everyone in the section I sit wanted to cash in at 1-1 at HT (including me). Then we got a spell on top and if we'd scored it could have been a different outcome. Fine margins sometimes. And damned if you do, damned if you don't. Personally, I'm still glad we tried to win it. Those 3 pointers are crucial and we need to get back into the habit of accruing them. |  |
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 12:05 - Sep 30 with 3613 views | frenzied |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 11:52 - Sep 30 by tony_roch975 |
You can give them 'a run for their money' provided 'their' money is close to yours - the trickle down economics of football over the last 20 years means £1M players now regularly featuring in League 1 teams. Of course we'd all want to be able to play 'no fear' attacking football with Premier-class players like Lambert, Holt, Murray, Le Fondre, Buckley, Dawson and Mendez-Laing and once in a while the underdog will prevail (Dale v Spurs) but the days of little clubs poaching top class players and indeed of small clubs competing in any league may well be gone. By attendances and finance we're a Conference team at best - just to stay in the EFL would be over-achieving, to stay in League 1 is nothing short of miraculous. |
I completely agree with this..we are a bottom half of league one team at best...we don't have a single player who looks as if they could play at a higher level..we just gotta hope that the combination of what we do have will keep us in League 1 | | | |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 12:15 - Sep 30 with 3592 views | D_Alien |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 11:54 - Sep 30 by DaleiLama |
Everyone in the section I sit wanted to cash in at 1-1 at HT (including me). Then we got a spell on top and if we'd scored it could have been a different outcome. Fine margins sometimes. And damned if you do, damned if you don't. Personally, I'm still glad we tried to win it. Those 3 pointers are crucial and we need to get back into the habit of accruing them. |
I guess i was 'drawing'  attention to the pleas for attacking football and those equally fervent requests that we become harder to beat
We've not got that balance anywhere near right - we have in the past. I don't think we're capable of anything like balance with the constant chopping and changing, sometimes enforced, other times not | |
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 12:41 - Sep 30 with 3544 views | tony_roch975 |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 12:15 - Sep 30 by D_Alien |
I guess i was 'drawing' attention to the pleas for attacking football and those equally fervent requests that we become harder to beat
We've not got that balance anywhere near right - we have in the past. I don't think we're capable of anything like balance with the constant chopping and changing, sometimes enforced, other times not |
Fair point - certainly feels like too big a squad with too many similar players but maybe it's a case of hoping one or two will develop into that 'miracle' player, and also just happens best Academy products have been m/fielders (tho signing more in the Summer looks self-inflicted); also lot of injuries recently but does feel like sticking with a couple of formations and same players for half a dozen games or more, whatever the results, might be best bet - just wonder if it's simply that these days the time to experiment is so limited, the 'big' teams punish mistakes far more than 10 years ago, the expectations of fans is so unreal, disapproval is so vitriolic and public that Hill's being driven like the proverbial ship in the storm. | |
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 12:42 - Sep 30 with 3538 views | 442Dale |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 11:52 - Sep 30 by tony_roch975 |
You can give them 'a run for their money' provided 'their' money is close to yours - the trickle down economics of football over the last 20 years means £1M players now regularly featuring in League 1 teams. Of course we'd all want to be able to play 'no fear' attacking football with Premier-class players like Lambert, Holt, Murray, Le Fondre, Buckley, Dawson and Mendez-Laing and once in a while the underdog will prevail (Dale v Spurs) but the days of little clubs poaching top class players and indeed of small clubs competing in any league may well be gone. By attendances and finance we're a Conference team at best - just to stay in the EFL would be over-achieving, to stay in League 1 is nothing short of miraculous. |
While agreeing that as a club we are exceeding expectations by becoming a fixture in L1, we have proven in three out of the four seasons we can compete for a playoff place. We won’t every year, but there’s no reason why we can’t again in the future. Almost all of our problems are self-inflicted and not because we are so far behind every other side.
As an example, less than two years ago we played that attacking football and got results with a team that had a back four of Rafferty, Keane, Canavan and Bunney, with a midfield that regularly featured Joe Thompson and with Henderson, Andrew and Davies our forward options. That took us to fourth place with over half the season gone. That we didn’t make the top 6 was down to ourselves. |  |
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 12:47 - Sep 30 with 3519 views | DaleiLama |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 12:05 - Sep 30 by frenzied |
I completely agree with this..we are a bottom half of league one team at best...we don't have a single player who looks as if they could play at a higher level..we just gotta hope that the combination of what we do have will keep us in League 1 |
And yet Andrew, Camps, Lillis, Hendo, Raff, Done and Ollie (have I missed any?) have all played in sides where we finished top half. | |
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 12:49 - Sep 30 with 3512 views | smaclad1 |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 12:41 - Sep 30 by tony_roch975 |
Fair point - certainly feels like too big a squad with too many similar players but maybe it's a case of hoping one or two will develop into that 'miracle' player, and also just happens best Academy products have been m/fielders (tho signing more in the Summer looks self-inflicted); also lot of injuries recently but does feel like sticking with a couple of formations and same players for half a dozen games or more, whatever the results, might be best bet - just wonder if it's simply that these days the time to experiment is so limited, the 'big' teams punish mistakes far more than 10 years ago, the expectations of fans is so unreal, disapproval is so vitriolic and public that Hill's being driven like the proverbial ship in the storm. |
I also think that with a large squad if a player has a niggle there is a temptation to rest/declare him injured for a game or two, whereas with a small squad they're patched up and get on with it. Might not necessarily be in best interest of the player, but does maintain a better continuity. We've got a bigger squad now than even before - it's a new challenge for Hill, albeit a self-inflicted challenge. | | | |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 13:03 - Sep 30 with 3471 views | D_Alien |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 12:49 - Sep 30 by smaclad1 |
I also think that with a large squad if a player has a niggle there is a temptation to rest/declare him injured for a game or two, whereas with a small squad they're patched up and get on with it. Might not necessarily be in best interest of the player, but does maintain a better continuity. We've got a bigger squad now than even before - it's a new challenge for Hill, albeit a self-inflicted challenge. |
On the same theme, i was surprised Hart continued trying to overcome his early injury for so long - it could've cost us against their rapid wide players but wonder if it was due to not having a natural left-footer to replace him?
Hill has also made a point of saying players succumb to injury too easily (Cannon was a notable target) but i hope Hart's absence isn't lengthened due to playing on too long | |
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 14:33 - Sep 30 with 3357 views | Cleedale |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 11:52 - Sep 30 by tony_roch975 |
You can give them 'a run for their money' provided 'their' money is close to yours - the trickle down economics of football over the last 20 years means £1M players now regularly featuring in League 1 teams. Of course we'd all want to be able to play 'no fear' attacking football with Premier-class players like Lambert, Holt, Murray, Le Fondre, Buckley, Dawson and Mendez-Laing and once in a while the underdog will prevail (Dale v Spurs) but the days of little clubs poaching top class players and indeed of small clubs competing in any league may well be gone. By attendances and finance we're a Conference team at best - just to stay in the EFL would be over-achieving, to stay in League 1 is nothing short of miraculous. |
Excellent post there Tony; many will remember the very first time we made the Play-Offs in basement division. To me and probably the vast majority of supporters 'then', this was unknown territory and an unheard of achievement.
To perhaps show some comparison I think our 'average' Div 4 finishing position between 1974 and 1988/9'ish was around 19th/20th.
Any doubters might look at the present National League North table - that's just the odd '3' leagues below us now. In there, 9 ex-League clubs, most of which we used to battle week in, week out; once.
So yes, the list of Premier-class players that've passed through has obviously had a great bearing on where we are today.
Perhaps also, much more difficult to blood our very talented yougsters coming through in a League 1 where slightest errors usually get punished by the more wealthy budget-wise clubs; or not? Opinions? | | | |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 16:57 - Sep 30 with 3226 views | 442Dale |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 14:33 - Sep 30 by Cleedale |
Excellent post there Tony; many will remember the very first time we made the Play-Offs in basement division. To me and probably the vast majority of supporters 'then', this was unknown territory and an unheard of achievement.
To perhaps show some comparison I think our 'average' Div 4 finishing position between 1974 and 1988/9'ish was around 19th/20th.
Any doubters might look at the present National League North table - that's just the odd '3' leagues below us now. In there, 9 ex-League clubs, most of which we used to battle week in, week out; once.
So yes, the list of Premier-class players that've passed through has obviously had a great bearing on where we are today.
Perhaps also, much more difficult to blood our very talented yougsters coming through in a League 1 where slightest errors usually get punished by the more wealthy budget-wise clubs; or not? Opinions? |
As in my earlier post, we’ve proven we can compete at this level against the top sides making the best use of our resources. There’s little doubt that those with the bigger budgets will attract the better players, but it’s how they’re utilised. It took Sheff Utd years and many millions before Wilder came in and got it right. In one of those seasons (15/16) they finished behind us. | |
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 17:25 - Sep 30 with 3178 views | Cleedale |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 16:57 - Sep 30 by 442Dale |
As in my earlier post, we’ve proven we can compete at this level against the top sides making the best use of our resources. There’s little doubt that those with the bigger budgets will attract the better players, but it’s how they’re utilised. It took Sheff Utd years and many millions before Wilder came in and got it right. In one of those seasons (15/16) they finished behind us. |
Thanks 442Dale and agree with what you're saying. Whichever way you look at it we've done incredibly well and certainly punched above weight.
A point I was trying to make (especially as Tony Roch had pointed out) is that it 'appears' harder to find the rough(er) diamonds and bring them on - wasn't that what Parkin did with Holt, Lambert and then Murray? (obv. stand corrected if they weren't his signings).
Now we've got our own youngsters coming through (and mean that with respect to 'others' who have come through who are obv. still young at 22'ish. and playing there) do supporters think that any of the teenagers could be ready to make 1st Team League on a regular basis in League 1?
Or is this too much of a leap - perhaps meaning we now have to sign experienced players to maintain our status?
In other words, who do you think could be our next big money sale in the future? | | | |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 10:53 - Oct 1 with 2917 views | cumbria_dale |
League 1 feels like a much tougher division than it did 4 years ago. Perhaps that's because we were full of optimism back then. We were an unknown quantity - our tactics, mentality, philosophy. Look at Accy now and see how they are performing incredibly - arguably the same sort of thing.
Perhaps I am being naive but in seasons past I felt you could cast your eyes on the table and have a reasonably good idea which teams would be struggling - Crewe, Oldham, Colchester, Northampton etc. Teams that you would sneakingly think "they'll be one of the 4 teams worse than use this season".
This year, I genuinely cannot pick out such teams. Wimbledon? Nope. Accy? Would've said so at the start of the season, but not now. Neither Coventry or Luton, both promoted from league 2, will not be in the relegation scrap I feel. So when you look again, and objectively this time, I can definitely count us in that group of teams likely to struggle. I just hope we can find the form soon to put a run together and not endure another Christmas like last year. | | | |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 11:12 - Oct 1 with 2901 views | ParkinsGimp |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 12:41 - Sep 30 by tony_roch975 |
Fair point - certainly feels like too big a squad with too many similar players but maybe it's a case of hoping one or two will develop into that 'miracle' player, and also just happens best Academy products have been m/fielders (tho signing more in the Summer looks self-inflicted); also lot of injuries recently but does feel like sticking with a couple of formations and same players for half a dozen games or more, whatever the results, might be best bet - just wonder if it's simply that these days the time to experiment is so limited, the 'big' teams punish mistakes far more than 10 years ago, the expectations of fans is so unreal, disapproval is so vitriolic and public that Hill's being driven like the proverbial ship in the storm. |
Seems like a poor squad more than a large squad to me. Bang average signings in the summer ...oh has Calvin decided he wants to score yet? | | | |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 16:09 - Oct 1 with 2737 views | Cleedale |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 10:53 - Oct 1 by cumbria_dale |
League 1 feels like a much tougher division than it did 4 years ago. Perhaps that's because we were full of optimism back then. We were an unknown quantity - our tactics, mentality, philosophy. Look at Accy now and see how they are performing incredibly - arguably the same sort of thing.
Perhaps I am being naive but in seasons past I felt you could cast your eyes on the table and have a reasonably good idea which teams would be struggling - Crewe, Oldham, Colchester, Northampton etc. Teams that you would sneakingly think "they'll be one of the 4 teams worse than use this season".
This year, I genuinely cannot pick out such teams. Wimbledon? Nope. Accy? Would've said so at the start of the season, but not now. Neither Coventry or Luton, both promoted from league 2, will not be in the relegation scrap I feel. So when you look again, and objectively this time, I can definitely count us in that group of teams likely to struggle. I just hope we can find the form soon to put a run together and not endure another Christmas like last year. |
Interesting that cumbria re-feeling like a tougher division than it did 4 years ago.
Financially that would also tie in with the increases in League and TV payments throughout the Football League in that, approximately : L2 = £1M per club, L1 = £1.5M pc 'but' Championship = £6.3M pc.
So basically, (and disregarding clubs that have fallen from Prem. downwards and ended in L1 or even L2), whoever is relegated from the Championship is proportionately going to have more financial clout because the percentage increase there, although the same?, means much more money.
Obv. agree with the 3rd sentence - re-unknown quantity. Hopefully things will click but just 'maybe' I've noticed the bigger clubs being a tad more clinical in front of goal when perhaps shots on target between any 2 clubs has been negligible between Dale and whoever. [Post edited 1 Oct 2018 16:10]
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| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 18:05 - Oct 1 with 2640 views | kiwidale |
| Cloud Cuckoo land or wishful thinking on 11:52 - Sep 30 by tony_roch975 |
You can give them 'a run for their money' provided 'their' money is close to yours - the trickle down economics of football over the last 20 years means £1M players now regularly featuring in League 1 teams. Of course we'd all want to be able to play 'no fear' attacking football with Premier-class players like Lambert, Holt, Murray, Le Fondre, Buckley, Dawson and Mendez-Laing and once in a while the underdog will prevail (Dale v Spurs) but the days of little clubs poaching top class players and indeed of small clubs competing in any league may well be gone. By attendances and finance we're a Conference team at best - just to stay in the EFL would be over-achieving, to stay in League 1 is nothing short of miraculous. |
Once the heat of another heavy defeat has been tempered that is a very good post Tony and puts things in perspective. | |
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