| Next Season 14:53 - Apr 4 with 16592 views | Yossarian |
Apparently:
The Academy is being cut back to Tier 3
All Youth coaches will be part-time
The kids will be back at Llandarcy or the Elba and the First team back at Landore
Fairwood is being offloaded back to the University....or another buyer like a Health Club chain
They can’t afford to pay McBurnie’s bonus for scoring so he’s being used sparingly
Most of the young players who have come through this season are being lined up for transfers
If Potter gets an offer, he will be off because it will involve a compensation payment.
We are in a battle for survival. I am depressed. Shades of 1982 all over again.
How on earth did it come to this?
[Post edited 4 Apr 2019 14:55]
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| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| Next Season on 09:14 - Apr 6 with 2433 views | TailGunner |
| Next Season on 08:52 - Apr 6 by trinityann |
There has to be a balance between first team and the academy. I personally think the academy has more than paid itself just on this season alone. As a neutral I always admire clubs like Ajax/Monaco that promote kids to first team and to be honest their reap the rewards financially.
If you have a good academy and good scouting network, one gem of a player could pay for the academy for 10 years. |
Always felt Cat 1 was too much for us to sustain personally.
Cat 2 about right. Cat 3 pitches us with Cheltenham Bristol Rovers, Newport etc. Big step backwards.
All the players we are enjoying now down to under 24s I think started in centre of excellence. |  | | |
| Next Season on 09:19 - Apr 6 with 2429 views | Glyn1 |
| Next Season on 09:14 - Apr 6 by TailGunner |
Always felt Cat 1 was too much for us to sustain personally.
Cat 2 about right. Cat 3 pitches us with Cheltenham Bristol Rovers, Newport etc. Big step backwards.
All the players we are enjoying now down to under 24s I think started in centre of excellence. |
Please,can anyone explain the differences between the various categories, or provide a link? |  |
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| Next Season on 09:45 - Apr 6 with 2395 views | jasper_T |
| Next Season on 08:07 - Apr 6 by felixstowe_jack |
Think you have mixed up your facts. We had a category 3 academy when Joe Allen was developed. The academy used public facilities to play on even our first team used to train on public facilities. They used the old BP Llandarcy facilities during our first season in the PL.
The academy at Landore was only started during our PL years and the first team trained there for a while before moving to fairwood. Our Academy only gained cat 1 status after the indoor facilities were built around our 4th year In the PL. Arguably our two best youngsters Joe Allen and Ben Davies were produced by our cat 3 academy.
Having said that it would be a backward step loosing our Academy.
You only have to look at Cardiff's Academy who have not produced any decent players for Cardiff since Ramsey over 10 years ago. |
Joe Allen had played 100 games for us before the current EPPP category system was established in 2012. | | | |
| Next Season on 09:57 - Apr 6 with 2375 views | jasper_T |
| Next Season on 09:19 - Apr 6 by Glyn1 |
Please,can anyone explain the differences between the various categories, or provide a link? |
This is the original proposal for the system which defines the various objectives and differences: https://www.goalreports.com/EPLPlan.pdf | | | |
| Next Season on 10:13 - Apr 6 with 2349 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Next Season on 03:11 - Apr 6 by BLAZE |
"Cat 1 contributed no players to our Premier league sides. Not one."
Bloody hell, within a couple of years of gaining Category 1 we were relegated. Did you expect results over night?
You spent last season knocking our youth structure for not producing much since Ben Davies. Of course, you've been quiet this year with the emergence of Roberts, Rodon, James etc... I thought you may have realised the error of your ways, but here you are spouting the same rubbish again [Post edited 6 Apr 2019 3:12]
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Dont be a minge.
James was produced by Hull.
Already an age group international when we signed him.
I am the biggest supporter of the local lads you will find.
Its the lazy signing of the likes of Kenji that blocks the likes of Watkins, Gwion, etc from developing at our club.
I was very proud of our club for producing Ben, Joey, Jass and Macca.
Thats the sustainable model for us.
Thats hard work.
Some at our club did not fancy the hard work anymore, and just signed players from elsewhere.
I give you Kenji and Rory - what were we thinking ? Premier League players ? |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Next Season on 10:33 - Apr 6 with 2334 views | TailGunner |
| Next Season on 10:13 - Apr 6 by Kilkennyjack |
Dont be a minge.
James was produced by Hull.
Already an age group international when we signed him.
I am the biggest supporter of the local lads you will find.
Its the lazy signing of the likes of Kenji that blocks the likes of Watkins, Gwion, etc from developing at our club.
I was very proud of our club for producing Ben, Joey, Jass and Macca.
Thats the sustainable model for us.
Thats hard work.
Some at our club did not fancy the hard work anymore, and just signed players from elsewhere.
I give you Kenji and Rory - what were we thinking ? Premier League players ? |
Hard to argue with that. | | | |
| Next Season on 10:33 - Apr 6 with 2334 views | Yossarian |
| Next Season on 14:17 - Apr 5 by Luther27 |
Sorry to butt in, but is the OP making a statement or is all this just conjecture? |
Time will tell my friend...I am not in the habit of posting conjecture. I was careful in my choice of words hence my opening with ‘Apparently..’ I will not divulge my source but the opening remarks of the newly appointed Mr. Birch (reported on the BBC News site) this morning tend to suggest that this is close to the mark. | |
| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| Next Season on 10:36 - Apr 6 with 2328 views | Yossarian |
| Next Season on 16:43 - Apr 5 by jack247 |
Yeah that’s right.
The fans that didn’t go to a £20 fa cup match and haven’t bought a replica shirt are the reason we’ll end up flogging Dan James and downgrading the academy. |
Wrong. The catastrophic and cumulative mismanagement of the club since Laudrup was sacked is responsible for that, not the fans. You are playing right into the hands of the Yanks by trotting out that garbage. | |
| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| Next Season on 10:46 - Apr 6 with 2319 views | Luther27 |
| Next Season on 10:33 - Apr 6 by Yossarian |
Time will tell my friend...I am not in the habit of posting conjecture. I was careful in my choice of words hence my opening with ‘Apparently..’ I will not divulge my source but the opening remarks of the newly appointed Mr. Birch (reported on the BBC News site) this morning tend to suggest that this is close to the mark. |
Thanks for the explanation...much appreciated | | | |
| Next Season on 11:05 - Apr 6 with 2306 views | Blue_Blood |
| Next Season on 08:07 - Apr 6 by felixstowe_jack |
Think you have mixed up your facts. We had a category 3 academy when Joe Allen was developed. The academy used public facilities to play on even our first team used to train on public facilities. They used the old BP Llandarcy facilities during our first season in the PL.
The academy at Landore was only started during our PL years and the first team trained there for a while before moving to fairwood. Our Academy only gained cat 1 status after the indoor facilities were built around our 4th year In the PL. Arguably our two best youngsters Joe Allen and Ben Davies were produced by our cat 3 academy.
Having said that it would be a backward step loosing our Academy.
You only have to look at Cardiff's Academy who have not produced any decent players for Cardiff since Ramsey over 10 years ago. |
That's not my point though. If you currently have a player who is your next Joe Allen or Connor Robert's and is 16 years old and you drop to cat 3, then let's say a Southampton would be able to come in at 48 hours notice and speak to the kid and take him and Swansea would have £60k compensation.
There's a lot of issues why Cardiff don't produce and the main being the lack of pathway to the first team. | | | |
| Next Season on 11:05 - Apr 6 with 2306 views | jackrmee |
| Next Season on 14:43 - Apr 5 by Badlands |
... which implicates the 'boycotters' in running down the club. |
I don't believe many of the people who stayed away were actually boycotting, but there we go...
Anyway, if the academy goes, I would definitely be up for a boycott.
Is there any way the fans can get involved positively in order to show our desire for the academy to stay open/Cat 1?
Maybe fundraisers, some sort of guarantees for extra ST sales if the academy doesn't change , fuk knows...
Slaughter a calf on the centre circle at half time as a sacrifice to the American Gods who hold everything in the golden fists?
I'm really not taking this well.
I'm proud of our academy and it is our absolute future. |  |
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| Next Season on 11:11 - Apr 6 with 2297 views | jasper_T |
| Next Season on 11:05 - Apr 6 by jackrmee |
I don't believe many of the people who stayed away were actually boycotting, but there we go...
Anyway, if the academy goes, I would definitely be up for a boycott.
Is there any way the fans can get involved positively in order to show our desire for the academy to stay open/Cat 1?
Maybe fundraisers, some sort of guarantees for extra ST sales if the academy doesn't change , fuk knows...
Slaughter a calf on the centre circle at half time as a sacrifice to the American Gods who hold everything in the golden fists?
I'm really not taking this well.
I'm proud of our academy and it is our absolute future. |
More people could go to the development games for a start.
Last season half this forum thought the whole thing was a waste of time and the players might as well not exist. "League Two at best" every one of them. | | | |
| Next Season on 11:21 - Apr 6 with 2283 views | jackrmee |
| Next Season on 10:13 - Apr 6 by Kilkennyjack |
Dont be a minge.
James was produced by Hull.
Already an age group international when we signed him.
I am the biggest supporter of the local lads you will find.
Its the lazy signing of the likes of Kenji that blocks the likes of Watkins, Gwion, etc from developing at our club.
I was very proud of our club for producing Ben, Joey, Jass and Macca.
Thats the sustainable model for us.
Thats hard work.
Some at our club did not fancy the hard work anymore, and just signed players from elsewhere.
I give you Kenji and Rory - what were we thinking ? Premier League players ? |
We can still be Cat1 and not fork out bucks for attendees though right? | |
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| Next Season on 11:25 - Apr 6 with 2275 views | jackrmee |
| Next Season on 11:11 - Apr 6 by jasper_T |
More people could go to the development games for a start.
Last season half this forum thought the whole thing was a waste of time and the players might as well not exist. "League Two at best" every one of them. |
Hard enough to get people at the ACTUAL games though init  | |
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| Next Season on 12:06 - Apr 6 with 2243 views | Badlands |
| Next Season on 11:25 - Apr 6 by jackrmee |
Hard enough to get people at the ACTUAL games though init |
Have to admit I didn't attend as many as I have in the past - personal circumstances and Swans TV. But I do feel I have watched more than enough games (live and on TV) to comment fairly on the Under 23 players (unlike many who write youngsters off or big them up having only seen a few highlights or a one off game). |  |
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| Next Season on 12:12 - Apr 6 with 2234 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Next Season on 10:13 - Apr 6 by Kilkennyjack |
Dont be a minge.
James was produced by Hull.
Already an age group international when we signed him.
I am the biggest supporter of the local lads you will find.
Its the lazy signing of the likes of Kenji that blocks the likes of Watkins, Gwion, etc from developing at our club.
I was very proud of our club for producing Ben, Joey, Jass and Macca.
Thats the sustainable model for us.
Thats hard work.
Some at our club did not fancy the hard work anymore, and just signed players from elsewhere.
I give you Kenji and Rory - what were we thinking ? Premier League players ? |
James was hardly produced by Hull he had not play for him when they let him go. He only developed into a Championship and International player since he joined us. | |
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| Next Season on 12:23 - Apr 6 with 2218 views | dobjack2 |
| Next Season on 11:05 - Apr 6 by Blue_Blood |
That's not my point though. If you currently have a player who is your next Joe Allen or Connor Robert's and is 16 years old and you drop to cat 3, then let's say a Southampton would be able to come in at 48 hours notice and speak to the kid and take him and Swansea would have £60k compensation.
There's a lot of issues why Cardiff don't produce and the main being the lack of pathway to the first team. |
Are the compensation levels different for category 1 poaching off category2? It’s rumoured that you got £500,000 for Matondo, was that a one off because man city wanted to bring the dispute to an end? | | | |
| Next Season on 15:55 - Apr 6 with 2181 views | Blue_Blood |
| Next Season on 12:23 - Apr 6 by dobjack2 |
Are the compensation levels different for category 1 poaching off category2? It’s rumoured that you got £500,000 for Matondo, was that a one off because man city wanted to bring the dispute to an end? |
No mate the compensation levels are different and it costs more to poach a player the higher the academy they are taken from.
I think the Matondo case was unique in that somehow he signed a strange deal through his agent (at least that's what I have been told) that enabled Cardiff to get about £750k from the deal. | | | |
| Next Season on 17:26 - Apr 6 with 2131 views | BLAZE |
| Next Season on 12:12 - Apr 6 by felixstowe_jack |
James was hardly produced by Hull he had not play for him when they let him go. He only developed into a Championship and International player since he joined us. |
He’s as thick as mince mate, don’t waste your time. He can’t see his contradictions even when they’re spelled out to him |  | | |
| Next Season on 17:37 - Apr 6 with 2101 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Next Season on 15:55 - Apr 6 by Blue_Blood |
No mate the compensation levels are different and it costs more to poach a player the higher the academy they are taken from.
I think the Matondo case was unique in that somehow he signed a strange deal through his agent (at least that's what I have been told) that enabled Cardiff to get about £750k from the deal. |
We're Cat 3 from memory, compensation is incredibly low, aound the 100-150k from memory.
We received anywhere from 250-500k depending upon the rumoured figure you believe. What I heard was that Man City made a larger offer due to the way they went about poaching Matondo. Who knows the truth, but given the way Prem teams play hard and fast with the regulations - see Liverpool. | | | |
| Next Season on 18:18 - Apr 6 with 2041 views | Blue_Blood |
| Next Season on 17:37 - Apr 6 by bluey_the_blue |
We're Cat 3 from memory, compensation is incredibly low, aound the 100-150k from memory.
We received anywhere from 250-500k depending upon the rumoured figure you believe. What I heard was that Man City made a larger offer due to the way they went about poaching Matondo. Who knows the truth, but given the way Prem teams play hard and fast with the regulations - see Liverpool. |
We're cat 2 mate. I don't think the upper end of our academy is fit for purpose. Its impossible to play against Colchester u23s (who are mostly made up of 17 year olds) on a Monday then be expected to step up and play against Man City first team on a Saturday. | | | |
| Next Season on 18:49 - Apr 6 with 2012 views | TailGunner |
| Next Season on 17:26 - Apr 6 by BLAZE |
He’s as thick as mince mate, don’t waste your time. He can’t see his contradictions even when they’re spelled out to him |
We paid good money for Dan James, they were gutted to lose him. | | | |
| Next Season on 20:56 - Apr 6 with 1930 views | BLAZE |
| Next Season on 18:49 - Apr 6 by TailGunner |
We paid good money for Dan James, they were gutted to lose him. |
Correct me if I’m wrong but his argument has always been against purchasing other teams development talent. Well as you say Dan James came from Hull and has been a massive success, so it wasn’t a wholly bad strategy
He’s also banged on about us not giving our own youth products a chance in favour of other teams talent and pointed to the fact that we brought nobody through our own system to the first team since Ben Davies. Well since then Connor Roberts and Joe Rodon popped up, with a few others in the wings. So IMO his belief that purchasing a few Scottish kids has held back a whole swathe of local boys is bollox too | | | |
| Next Season on 21:07 - Apr 6 with 1911 views | jasper_T |
| Next Season on 20:56 - Apr 6 by BLAZE |
Correct me if I’m wrong but his argument has always been against purchasing other teams development talent. Well as you say Dan James came from Hull and has been a massive success, so it wasn’t a wholly bad strategy
He’s also banged on about us not giving our own youth products a chance in favour of other teams talent and pointed to the fact that we brought nobody through our own system to the first team since Ben Davies. Well since then Connor Roberts and Joe Rodon popped up, with a few others in the wings. So IMO his belief that purchasing a few Scottish kids has held back a whole swathe of local boys is bollox too |
It's not total bollcks. Jack Evans was held back from getting games for ages because average players like King and poor ones like Ryan Blair were bought in for huge sums. Liam Cullen struggled last season out on the wing so we could play lumps like Biabi and CBR at centre forward (usually the former when both were available). Arguments to be made that Tyler Reid caused issues with Aaron Lewis shunted to left back as well (this after Matic Paljk's short stay proved unsuccessful and he returned to Slovenia).
Biabi's first game for the u23s was on the wing in place of DJ iirc. That experiment didn't last long though. As with the seniors there are only so many opportunities to go around at development levels. Local players do get ignored when you recruit so many and at such high a cost. | | | |
| Next Season on 21:28 - Apr 6 with 1872 views | BLAZE |
I bow to your knowledge on all that, but I believe the cream rises to the top eventually whether local or not. When we sign kids from other teams they won’t all be a success like James, Byers and arguably Fulton too. It hasn’t been a particularity bad strategy IMO, that’s all I’m trying to say | | | |
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