| Corona Virus 22:39 - Mar 7 with 506322 views | SgorioFruit |
Sorry for new thread,
But how bad do you lot reckon it’s going to get here in the UK?
I just been watching the news. Looking nasty in Italy. |  |
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| Corona Virus on 10:39 - Jun 27 with 2383 views | Professor |
| Corona Virus on 10:24 - Jun 27 by majorraglan |
There’s a video in the BBC article where Palm Beach citizens are speaking to their local commissioners about the mandatory wearing of face masks. I’d have thought some of those speaking against wearing of masks would be in the high risk categories. Their views, in my opinion are crackers.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53200834 |
Just idiocy. Same here- beaches on Merseyside have been busy. The stupid PL celebrations in the city. Mess everywhere. It is also a selfish action. Those of us who are being sensible are at risk of idiots. As my wife says, we have not been to a supermarket in months, no visiting shops unless essential. Avoiding crowds. We have been to Delamere Forest twice to walk the dogs in a large outdoor area allowing full distancing. I wear a mask in our excellent local convenience store. We have food delivered from local suppliers and supermarkets. I have collected two takeaways in four months-wearing a mask. I’m lucky as will be WFH rest of year. My wife is in school. We don’t know where kids and parents have been. Been told to use minimal PPE not to scare kids |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 10:53 - Jun 27 with 2359 views | Scotia |
| Corona Virus on 10:24 - Jun 27 by majorraglan |
There’s a video in the BBC article where Palm Beach citizens are speaking to their local commissioners about the mandatory wearing of face masks. I’d have thought some of those speaking against wearing of masks would be in the high risk categories. Their views, in my opinion are crackers.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53200834 |
It's absolutely bonkers!
I've seen pictures of a gym in Tennesee that seem to be just carrying on as normal, no social distancing, group work outs and plenty of high fives. It's not one of the worst affected States but there's still over 1000 new cases a day. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:07 - Jun 27 with 2346 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Corona Virus on 07:35 - Jun 27 by Scotia |
I'm almost dreading to see what is going to happen in England from mid July. I think the jump from the current social distancing rules to opening pubs, restaurants and cinemas etc whilst reducing social distancing tp 1m in one fell swoop smacks of jump starting the economy at the expense of health.
They've been lucky so far with cases falling despite beaches being packed and the protests but the move inside is asking for trouble. [Post edited 27 Jun 2020 7:36]
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I’m really concerned about what happens when pubs & restaurants etc open.
But I was also concerned when the crowds at beaches started 6 weeks ago, was concerned when the marches started over 4 weeks ago, was concerned with the VE Day street parties 7 weeks ago, concerned when the shops opened 4 weeks ago.
The move to ‘inside’ is worrying, but in all honesty, most people will self regulate according to age - people in their 20s and 30s will ignore any distancing, people over 50 wont be going to cinemas and sit inside pubs, at least the ones that will have probably been ignoring a lot of social distancing stuff for weeks now.
None of this makes much sense. It seems to me that people are either not getting infected as much as we’d expected from relaxation of measure, or alternatively, people are getting infected, but it’s not as serious. Sunshine, vitamin D deficiencies less in the summer, virus itself weakening, who knows.
The biggest concern is what happens when the autumn returns - hopefully we’ll have a vaccine by then. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 08:53 - Jul 25 with 2093 views | Best_loser |
| Corona Virus on 10:53 - Jun 27 by Scotia |
It's absolutely bonkers!
I've seen pictures of a gym in Tennesee that seem to be just carrying on as normal, no social distancing, group work outs and plenty of high fives. It's not one of the worst affected States but there's still over 1000 new cases a day. |
And still getting worse |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 17:42 - Aug 23 with 1977 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 10:39 - Jun 27 by Professor |
Just idiocy. Same here- beaches on Merseyside have been busy. The stupid PL celebrations in the city. Mess everywhere. It is also a selfish action. Those of us who are being sensible are at risk of idiots. As my wife says, we have not been to a supermarket in months, no visiting shops unless essential. Avoiding crowds. We have been to Delamere Forest twice to walk the dogs in a large outdoor area allowing full distancing. I wear a mask in our excellent local convenience store. We have food delivered from local suppliers and supermarkets. I have collected two takeaways in four months-wearing a mask. I’m lucky as will be WFH rest of year. My wife is in school. We don’t know where kids and parents have been. Been told to use minimal PPE not to scare kids |
Well, Professor are you ready to apologise to those Bangladeshi doctors that you slandered when I pointed out their findings?
What was it you called them, sharks, conmen etc?
It is now being adopted by Australia.
http://covexit.com/australian-gps-can-legally-prescribe-ivermectin-triple-therap
I suggest that you stick to your beloved Chicken Vaccines and leave life saving Medicine to those that know more about it. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 18:04 - Aug 23 with 1954 views | Scotia |
| Corona Virus on 17:42 - Aug 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
Well, Professor are you ready to apologise to those Bangladeshi doctors that you slandered when I pointed out their findings?
What was it you called them, sharks, conmen etc?
It is now being adopted by Australia.
http://covexit.com/australian-gps-can-legally-prescribe-ivermectin-triple-therap
I suggest that you stick to your beloved Chicken Vaccines and leave life saving Medicine to those that know more about it. |
That link does not say it is "being adopted by Australia".
It seems to be be one doctor promoting off label use.
Do you read the links you post? | | | |
| Corona Virus on 18:17 - Aug 23 with 1948 views | Professor |
| Corona Virus on 18:04 - Aug 23 by Scotia |
That link does not say it is "being adopted by Australia".
It seems to be be one doctor promoting off label use.
Do you read the links you post? |
It's based on a press release. There is no scientific evidence Ivermectin works in vivo (it does inhibit viral replication in cell culture). Previously suggested for Dengue and had no effect. It is primarily an anti-parasitic drug.
There is some real pseudoscience in there too. We don't cure SARS CoV2 infection, we treat to alleviate Covid 19 symptoms. As it turns out anti-inflammatories and immunomodulators have the best results.
I genuinely can't be arsed checking what I said about Bangladeshi doctors, but believe it was more a general comment that there are many opportunistic papers and reports and some of these are wrong. I believe what AFD quoted was such a study, but you know I may be wrong
I was looking back at the early posts- some turned out incredibly accurate-though we all got things wrong too. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 19:05 - Aug 23 with 1914 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 18:04 - Aug 23 by Scotia |
That link does not say it is "being adopted by Australia".
It seems to be be one doctor promoting off label use.
Do you read the links you post? |
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
"The Centre for Digestive Diseases issued today a press release titled “Ivermectin Triple Therapy Protocol for COVID-19 Released to Australian GPs for Infected Elderly and Frontline Workers.”" | | | |
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| Corona Virus on 19:10 - Aug 23 with 1906 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 18:17 - Aug 23 by Professor |
It's based on a press release. There is no scientific evidence Ivermectin works in vivo (it does inhibit viral replication in cell culture). Previously suggested for Dengue and had no effect. It is primarily an anti-parasitic drug.
There is some real pseudoscience in there too. We don't cure SARS CoV2 infection, we treat to alleviate Covid 19 symptoms. As it turns out anti-inflammatories and immunomodulators have the best results.
I genuinely can't be arsed checking what I said about Bangladeshi doctors, but believe it was more a general comment that there are many opportunistic papers and reports and some of these are wrong. I believe what AFD quoted was such a study, but you know I may be wrong
I was looking back at the early posts- some turned out incredibly accurate-though we all got things wrong too. |
The problem is that we have a lot of "professional" people like yourself suppressing interest and research in to promising medicines that mean that COVID-19 is no longer as big a killer as even the flu.
No need for lockdowns and the destruction of economies.
But of course there is no money to be made in this triple combination, no career making breakthroughs, just good old fashioned medicine. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 19:27 - Aug 23 with 1894 views | Scotia |
| Corona Virus on 19:05 - Aug 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
"The Centre for Digestive Diseases issued today a press release titled “Ivermectin Triple Therapy Protocol for COVID-19 Released to Australian GPs for Infected Elderly and Frontline Workers.”" |
It hasn't been "released to GP's" though has it? A gastroenterologist has told them to email him for him to tell them the dosage, via a press release. He's basically encouraging them to exploit a loop hole.
Have you read further than the first paragraph?
Also, how long has covid been a digestive disease? [Post edited 23 Aug 2020 19:31]
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| Corona Virus on 19:34 - Aug 23 with 1886 views | DJack |
| Corona Virus on 19:05 - Aug 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
"The Centre for Digestive Diseases issued today a press release titled “Ivermectin Triple Therapy Protocol for COVID-19 Released to Australian GPs for Infected Elderly and Frontline Workers.”" |
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-australia-s
"When asked about the drug’s potential in treating coronavirus, Dr Ian Musgrave, a molecular pharmacologist from the University of Adelaide, said: “Oh no, not Ivermectin.”
“No, it‘s not a cure for COVID-19,” Dr Musgrave added.
“It works in test-tube experiments, but is unlikely to work clinically as it is hard to achieve effective plasma concentrations. No clinical trials data are available yet and in the absence of any public data, claims of the high efficacy are to be taken with a grain of salt.”" |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Corona Virus on 19:36 - Aug 23 with 1883 views | Scotia |
| Corona Virus on 19:10 - Aug 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
The problem is that we have a lot of "professional" people like yourself suppressing interest and research in to promising medicines that mean that COVID-19 is no longer as big a killer as even the flu.
No need for lockdowns and the destruction of economies.
But of course there is no money to be made in this triple combination, no career making breakthroughs, just good old fashioned medicine. |
The problem is we have a lot of people, who don't know what they are talking about, posting dangerous stuff on Internet forums. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 19:38 - Aug 23 with 1883 views | Professor |
| Corona Virus on 19:10 - Aug 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
The problem is that we have a lot of "professional" people like yourself suppressing interest and research in to promising medicines that mean that COVID-19 is no longer as big a killer as even the flu.
No need for lockdowns and the destruction of economies.
But of course there is no money to be made in this triple combination, no career making breakthroughs, just good old fashioned medicine. |
I have been working today-writing a book chapter. Lot's of literature searches. so to finish off my day.
44 publications on Ivermectin and covid. Not one shows efficacy in vivo. There is one that mentions an animal trial (no details). One is describing a study design. Another notes the limitations of Ivermectin in respiratory disesase as to reach a working concentration it needs ten times the recommended dose. All the others are reviews or hypothesis papers (mostly opportunistic and ranging from poor to pretty good). All are in less than prestigious journals, mainly the pay to publish stuff that take most submissions.
There is one good systematic review. Its conclusion is that all of your triple therapy could work, but we simply don't yet know due to lack of decent studies-which was my point. We should concentrate on anti-virals, and immunomodulators that have more potential. Conventional therapeutics have had little success in human, pig, bovine or chicken coronaviruses. In fact the vaccines to IBV and porcine coronaviruses are about all that work and the latter may be superseded by gene editing.
I would suggest you learn how to use the literature, not random press releases, conspiracy theories or your 'news' sites.
Lockdown- it worked. Probably better than expected as people were genuinely scared. It's also had a huge impact on flu in the Southern Hemisphere which has also been reduced by the coronavirus measures. We can't go back to full lockdown-but we now have improved testing enough to localise this. Therapy and supportive care is also better-HCPs have experience. But don't be complacent. Increased positive tests in young people may yet bleed into the vulnerable (as is happening in the US with rises in deaths in Florida for example).
I'll take my advice off colleagues who are clinical virologists, lab virologists who have worked on coronaviruses for many years. None of these think this is the end, just the end of the beginning. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 20:54 - Aug 23 with 1833 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 19:38 - Aug 23 by Professor |
I have been working today-writing a book chapter. Lot's of literature searches. so to finish off my day.
44 publications on Ivermectin and covid. Not one shows efficacy in vivo. There is one that mentions an animal trial (no details). One is describing a study design. Another notes the limitations of Ivermectin in respiratory disesase as to reach a working concentration it needs ten times the recommended dose. All the others are reviews or hypothesis papers (mostly opportunistic and ranging from poor to pretty good). All are in less than prestigious journals, mainly the pay to publish stuff that take most submissions.
There is one good systematic review. Its conclusion is that all of your triple therapy could work, but we simply don't yet know due to lack of decent studies-which was my point. We should concentrate on anti-virals, and immunomodulators that have more potential. Conventional therapeutics have had little success in human, pig, bovine or chicken coronaviruses. In fact the vaccines to IBV and porcine coronaviruses are about all that work and the latter may be superseded by gene editing.
I would suggest you learn how to use the literature, not random press releases, conspiracy theories or your 'news' sites.
Lockdown- it worked. Probably better than expected as people were genuinely scared. It's also had a huge impact on flu in the Southern Hemisphere which has also been reduced by the coronavirus measures. We can't go back to full lockdown-but we now have improved testing enough to localise this. Therapy and supportive care is also better-HCPs have experience. But don't be complacent. Increased positive tests in young people may yet bleed into the vulnerable (as is happening in the US with rises in deaths in Florida for example).
I'll take my advice off colleagues who are clinical virologists, lab virologists who have worked on coronaviruses for many years. None of these think this is the end, just the end of the beginning. |
How odd that you looked at 44 publications on IVM and none showed efficacy in vivo.
If you had just read the link you would have found this one.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z
"In a recent in vitro study, the Vero/hSLAM cells infected with the SARS-CoV-2 or COVID-19 virus were exposed to 5 µM ivermectin in 48 h, and a 5000-fold reduction in viral RNA compared with control was found [15]. The results showed that treatment with ivermectin effectively kills almost all viral particles within 48 h."
Also Kills ZIKV as well. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 21:13 - Aug 23 with 1811 views | Professor |
| Corona Virus on 20:54 - Aug 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
How odd that you looked at 44 publications on IVM and none showed efficacy in vivo.
If you had just read the link you would have found this one.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z
"In a recent in vitro study, the Vero/hSLAM cells infected with the SARS-CoV-2 or COVID-19 virus were exposed to 5 µM ivermectin in 48 h, and a 5000-fold reduction in viral RNA compared with control was found [15]. The results showed that treatment with ivermectin effectively kills almost all viral particles within 48 h."
Also Kills ZIKV as well. |
Massive fail
That is in vitro (in the glass). it is in cell culture as both Scotia and I have already said. Vero cells are a continuous cell line derived from Green Monkey. You can pump these with high concentrations of drugs. Yes- it works for dengue, Zika and a whole host of viruses in vitro. In not one has clinical efficacy been demonstrated. This is the sort of preliminary data that you build from. Rarely does this go onto to a clinical use. It's a simple screening tool. I use Veros, HeLa, CaCo and a cell line called 8E11.This is our first pass, to select candidate strains (in my case bacteria) or potential interventions.
5 micromolar concentrations are very high-difficult to achieve in vivo without toxicity. Drugs normal work at nano or pico molar levels in tissues. I note there is n o mention of any measurement of toxic effects on the cells.
Second point-this is the systematic review I said about. The details of animal work are poor, and in 'normal' circumstances, there is no way this would be accepted. It is not a study showing data, rather a good review of prior Covid and other studies.
I would suggest you take heed of the last line of the abstract. [Post edited 24 Aug 2020 0:28]
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| Corona Virus on 23:31 - Aug 23 with 1754 views | DJack |
| Corona Virus on 20:54 - Aug 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
How odd that you looked at 44 publications on IVM and none showed efficacy in vivo.
If you had just read the link you would have found this one.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z
"In a recent in vitro study, the Vero/hSLAM cells infected with the SARS-CoV-2 or COVID-19 virus were exposed to 5 µM ivermectin in 48 h, and a 5000-fold reduction in viral RNA compared with control was found [15]. The results showed that treatment with ivermectin effectively kills almost all viral particles within 48 h."
Also Kills ZIKV as well. |
I know that I've posted this before but...
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| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Corona Virus on 11:18 - Aug 24 with 1664 views | Gwyn737 |
This thread has gone quiet sharpish... | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:20 - Aug 24 with 1661 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 23:31 - Aug 23 by DJack |
I know that I've posted this before but...
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A hand gun can also stop the spread of COVID, just ask the North Koreans.
Just shoot anyone coming in to your country, job done. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 11:26 - Aug 24 with 1660 views | Professor |
| Corona Virus on 11:18 - Aug 24 by Gwyn737 |
This thread has gone quiet sharpish... |
It was a dormant thread. Will be again unless some other dubious report catches an eye. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 12:13 - Aug 24 with 1649 views | Catullus |
| Corona Virus on 11:26 - Aug 24 by Professor |
It was a dormant thread. Will be again unless some other dubious report catches an eye. |
Talking of dubious reports! Hey Prof, what do you make of this?
https://www.ecowatch.com/cloth-masks-2647029510.html?rebelltitem=4#rebelltitem4
I've been a supporter of mask wearing indoors. I have no medical training, no expertise in any related field that would lead me to question you like AFD does but it just seems like common sense to me and this report (maybe of questionable origin) backs up my thinking.
If the initial dose of virus is lower, so the report claims, then the effect of the virus is reduced as the body copes better, the immune system isn't overloaded. Wearing masks reduces the dose you get and/or pass on to others and could mean you have or had the virus but never notice/noticed as you were asymptomatic.
Has anyone else seen new evidence to back this up? | |
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| Corona Virus on 13:04 - Aug 24 with 1644 views | Professor |
| Corona Virus on 12:13 - Aug 24 by Catullus |
Talking of dubious reports! Hey Prof, what do you make of this?
https://www.ecowatch.com/cloth-masks-2647029510.html?rebelltitem=4#rebelltitem4
I've been a supporter of mask wearing indoors. I have no medical training, no expertise in any related field that would lead me to question you like AFD does but it just seems like common sense to me and this report (maybe of questionable origin) backs up my thinking.
If the initial dose of virus is lower, so the report claims, then the effect of the virus is reduced as the body copes better, the immune system isn't overloaded. Wearing masks reduces the dose you get and/or pass on to others and could mean you have or had the virus but never notice/noticed as you were asymptomatic.
Has anyone else seen new evidence to back this up? |
There is a fair bit out there Catullus, but not really my area of interest. What I have seen is that any face covering offers some protection, but for simple cloth masks this is a slight reduction.
The best masks for protection are usually valved (PP3/N95) which protect the individual. The problem is that if you are infected they do not stop transmission-just comes out the valve.
But we are not wearing masks to protect ourselves-we are wearing them to stop transmission to others-here any mask combined with distancing will be very effective.
I have very nice triple layer black Addidas masks which are certainly OK for a few hours. More comfortable than FPP2 and 3 we wear for animal handling in work. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 13:17 - Aug 24 with 1635 views | Catullus |
| Corona Virus on 13:04 - Aug 24 by Professor |
There is a fair bit out there Catullus, but not really my area of interest. What I have seen is that any face covering offers some protection, but for simple cloth masks this is a slight reduction.
The best masks for protection are usually valved (PP3/N95) which protect the individual. The problem is that if you are infected they do not stop transmission-just comes out the valve.
But we are not wearing masks to protect ourselves-we are wearing them to stop transmission to others-here any mask combined with distancing will be very effective.
I have very nice triple layer black Addidas masks which are certainly OK for a few hours. More comfortable than FPP2 and 3 we wear for animal handling in work. |
Sorry but I meant what do you make of the source?
I've argued for wearing masks for the reasons you give. It won't guarantee you're safe from covid but it does help protect others and if this report is from a reasonable source (not some dingbat crazy outfit) then it, along with other evidence surely shows the Welsh Government is wrong about mask wearing?
I have a triple layered mask too which I put on just before going into a shop, I also use the hand gel on entry and try to distance. When I leave the shop and get back to the car I use more hand sanitiser. Then we use antibac wipes on food packaging before putting it away.
Is that overkill?  | |
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| Corona Virus on 13:36 - Aug 24 with 1625 views | Professor |
| Corona Virus on 13:17 - Aug 24 by Catullus |
Sorry but I meant what do you make of the source?
I've argued for wearing masks for the reasons you give. It won't guarantee you're safe from covid but it does help protect others and if this report is from a reasonable source (not some dingbat crazy outfit) then it, along with other evidence surely shows the Welsh Government is wrong about mask wearing?
I have a triple layered mask too which I put on just before going into a shop, I also use the hand gel on entry and try to distance. When I leave the shop and get back to the car I use more hand sanitiser. Then we use antibac wipes on food packaging before putting it away.
Is that overkill? |
I would not worry about the food packaging-the rest seems sensible.
It's just a news site that regurgitates other articles and press releases. There are plenty of them out there that exist on adverts and pop-up income. The original is from "The Conversation"- which is a news website partnered with universities to allow academics to develop news items related to their research or field of research. It's a pretty good site-largely paid for from university donations.
I have done a couple of pieces (albeit a few years back) around food safety that have been in there.
This is the most recent:
https://theconversation.com/from-beer-as-preventative-to-modern-day-bacteria-foo | | | |
| Corona Virus on 15:32 - Aug 24 with 1603 views | Catullus |
| Corona Virus on 13:36 - Aug 24 by Professor |
I would not worry about the food packaging-the rest seems sensible.
It's just a news site that regurgitates other articles and press releases. There are plenty of them out there that exist on adverts and pop-up income. The original is from "The Conversation"- which is a news website partnered with universities to allow academics to develop news items related to their research or field of research. It's a pretty good site-largely paid for from university donations.
I have done a couple of pieces (albeit a few years back) around food safety that have been in there.
This is the most recent:
https://theconversation.com/from-beer-as-preventative-to-modern-day-bacteria-foo |
Nice one Sarah 
Now I know that if out water supply gets contaminated I need to buy some real ale (well beer made with hops) because hops has an antimicrobial.
Whydid the Romans liked their watered down wine so much? Any similar reason?
Anyway, it's a good reason to drink beer 
PS, we'll stop wiping down packaging, thank you! | |
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| Corona Virus on 15:47 - Aug 24 with 1599 views | Professor |
| Corona Virus on 15:32 - Aug 24 by Catullus |
Nice one Sarah
Now I know that if out water supply gets contaminated I need to buy some real ale (well beer made with hops) because hops has an antimicrobial.
Whydid the Romans liked their watered down wine so much? Any similar reason?
Anyway, it's a good reason to drink beer
PS, we'll stop wiping down packaging, thank you! |
Sadly Sarah has moved to Newcastle Uni now-she is a proper medical epidemiologist.
I guess like 'small beer' the relatively weak stuff that kids drank and adults consumed during the day, if you were on the full monty is terms of strength through the day you would be fit for nothing. The French still do it with teenagers to get them into enjoying wine responsibly-unlike us idiots. | | | |
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