| London Mayor Sadiq Khan 20:23 - Jun 10 with 31236 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
London mayor Sadiq Khan promised today that he will begin the process of pulling down ‘inappropriate’ statues around London — after Bristolians dumped the statue of slave trader Edward Colston in the river at the weekend.
To investigate London’s landmarks, Khan has created a ‘Commission for Diversity in the Public Realm’ which will review statues and street names in the capital to make sure they reflect the diversity of its people. Khan said he expected the commission to find that it’s ‘not appropriate to be memorialising, or to be celebrating’ certain figures, especially those with a racist past and links to the slave trade.
In 2018, he proudly unveiled a statue of the suffragist Millicent Fawcett — the first-ever statue in Parliament Square of a woman. At the time, Khan declared that ‘from the very first week of my Mayoralty, I supported Caroline Criado Perez’s campaign to put up a statue of a woman in Parliament Square, and I’m so proud that the day of its unveiling is now upon us.’
But while Fawcett is mostly celebrated today for the campaign for women’s suffrage, less well-known is her ardent support of the British Empire. Fawcett was such a fan of Empire, that in 1901 she was commissioned by the government to lead an investigation into British concentration camps in South Africa during the second Boer war, after high mortality rates and appalling conditions were reported there.
When she arrived, Fawcett thought the camps were deeply necessary for the war, and her eventual report said the commission had a ‘generally favourable’ view of them. She also suggested that many of the deaths were caused by the ‘unsanitary habits’ of the Boers. Around 28,000 Boers died in the camps.
Fawcett didn’t have much thought for the participation of Black Africans in society after the war either. In 1899, she wrote that after the settlement of the war;
‘I hope we are too deeply pledged to the principle of equal privileges for all white races to abandon it.’
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/will-sadiq-khan-have-to-knock-down-millicent
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Do you think Sadiq will include his pet project in the list of 'inappropriate' statues he intends to tear down? It begs the question as to whether he is engaging with this exercise simply to boost his personal popularity, considering he proudly unveiled such a statue himself less than two years ago.
The man is a colossal hypocrite. |  |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 17:54 - Jul 10 with 1915 views | Drizzy |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 15:43 - Jul 10 by Catullus |
That's quite a take on the USA, it has what, 5 overses territories and isn't looking to acquire or assimilate any new lands. The EU however is actively looking to expand.
The USA exerts it's influence which is different to taking control. face it Drizzy, us and the Spanish had bigger empires than the USA will ever have. The Spanish still have more overseas terittories too.
The EU is taking control of other countries, projecting it's rules and laws onto them, punishing those who step out of line and actively looking to take more control, ever further integration. An empire building project indeed.
Somewhere in the brexit thread I did indeed point out that EU policies were harming Africa, that it was protectionist and so harming Africa's economies, a large cause of African emmigration.
By the way, it's hardly hypocritical. I've (to the best of my memory) never described the EU as imperialistic but sometimes as federalist. The EU wants more powers though, in the USA states jealousy guard their individual rights.
The French ministers quote is quite interesting, he describes the empire he wants the EU to be but many people have been led down a path by nice words only to realise, too late, that the words were just words and the reality is somewhat different. That's maybe why the Visegrads have been so jumpy.
But what about Verhofstadts words? As far as I can see the only thing that upsets other EU leaders is that he says these things publicly. I don't hear others in the EU upper echelons shouting him down for being wrong. |
It's hypocritical to call the EU an empire and not apply the same definition to the USA. I'd be able to understand the anti-imperial argument if it was applied consistently by Brexiteers but it's not.
My take is based on the last 100 years of American foreign policy, Cats. Can you seriously say they're not trying to exert influence, political and economic, through the use of military force? Not to mention its use of economic institutions like the IMF to sanction dissenting countries.
In your post, you call the EU an empire-building project but then say you've never described it as imperialistic? I respect you, Cats, but not when you contradict yourself so blatantly in the same post.
You'd expect the anti-imperialists on this thread to be up in the arms at the thought of us hitching ourselves to an increasingly volatile empire like the USA. They're not. They're remarkably silent on the matter. I wonder why? |  |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 20:45 - Jul 10 with 1865 views | Catullus |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 17:54 - Jul 10 by Drizzy |
It's hypocritical to call the EU an empire and not apply the same definition to the USA. I'd be able to understand the anti-imperial argument if it was applied consistently by Brexiteers but it's not.
My take is based on the last 100 years of American foreign policy, Cats. Can you seriously say they're not trying to exert influence, political and economic, through the use of military force? Not to mention its use of economic institutions like the IMF to sanction dissenting countries.
In your post, you call the EU an empire-building project but then say you've never described it as imperialistic? I respect you, Cats, but not when you contradict yourself so blatantly in the same post.
You'd expect the anti-imperialists on this thread to be up in the arms at the thought of us hitching ourselves to an increasingly volatile empire like the USA. They're not. They're remarkably silent on the matter. I wonder why? |
The EU is federalist not imperialist. The same poiunt appluies to the USA, it's ot me contradicting myself there.
One rather important point, the USA is trying to exert influence but not openly trying to get other countries to become states in the USA. The EU has several countries who are members in waiting. The EU wants them to want to join then voluntarily hand over ever more powers.
Then, again, the USA has a federal system whereby the inddividual states have their own powers, which they guard jealously. The EU is openly trying to take more powers for itself. The USA wants people to do what it wants or Trump will throw his toys out of the pram, have a little tantrum and make some threats. The EU wants the legal power to punish member states for not obeying.
An empire is defined as "an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state" the USA doesn't fit that definition but the EU does. |  |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 21:52 - Jul 10 with 1835 views | Drizzy |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 20:45 - Jul 10 by Catullus |
The EU is federalist not imperialist. The same poiunt appluies to the USA, it's ot me contradicting myself there.
One rather important point, the USA is trying to exert influence but not openly trying to get other countries to become states in the USA. The EU has several countries who are members in waiting. The EU wants them to want to join then voluntarily hand over ever more powers.
Then, again, the USA has a federal system whereby the inddividual states have their own powers, which they guard jealously. The EU is openly trying to take more powers for itself. The USA wants people to do what it wants or Trump will throw his toys out of the pram, have a little tantrum and make some threats. The EU wants the legal power to punish member states for not obeying.
An empire is defined as "an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state" the USA doesn't fit that definition but the EU does. |
I don't see how the American states have more sovereignty than EU member states. You're hugely overstating the amount of influence the EU has on domestic affairs.
In terms of expansionism, how many times has the EU overthrown a democratically elected government of a country it doesn't like? | |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 22:00 - Jul 10 with 1828 views | Humpty |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 20:45 - Jul 10 by Catullus |
The EU is federalist not imperialist. The same poiunt appluies to the USA, it's ot me contradicting myself there.
One rather important point, the USA is trying to exert influence but not openly trying to get other countries to become states in the USA. The EU has several countries who are members in waiting. The EU wants them to want to join then voluntarily hand over ever more powers.
Then, again, the USA has a federal system whereby the inddividual states have their own powers, which they guard jealously. The EU is openly trying to take more powers for itself. The USA wants people to do what it wants or Trump will throw his toys out of the pram, have a little tantrum and make some threats. The EU wants the legal power to punish member states for not obeying.
An empire is defined as "an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state" the USA doesn't fit that definition but the EU does. |
Didn't the bestest president the world has ever seen recently inquire as to whether Greenland was available for sale recently? |  | | |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 22:40 - Jul 10 with 1812 views | Darran |
Here he is complaining about grown men not wearing a face mask.
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 15:40 - Jul 11 with 1727 views | Catullus |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 21:52 - Jul 10 by Drizzy |
I don't see how the American states have more sovereignty than EU member states. You're hugely overstating the amount of influence the EU has on domestic affairs.
In terms of expansionism, how many times has the EU overthrown a democratically elected government of a country it doesn't like? |
The American states are not sovereign states though, they are part of the country. EU states are supposedly soveriegn states but they all had to agree to EU law taking primacy with the ECJ being the final arbiter.
In terms of expansionism, which countries does the USA control? The EU itself doesn't yet have an army but there are moves to create one with the current President, Von der Leyen being heavily in favour. However, during the gulf wars the Allied coalition included several EU members, us obviously and also France, Germany, the Netherlands, Hungary, Italy....Belgium....Greece and while I mention Greece and Italy, the EU forced unelected technocrats on them, unseating elected leaders. Or does that not count because the EU likes Greece and Italy? | |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 15:57 - Jul 11 with 1722 views | chad |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 23:41 - Jul 8 by Drizzy |
I literally said "a YouGov survey" before quoting statistics.
The only evidence I can find of the EU claiming it was "building an empire" is one comment from then EC chief, Jose Manuel Barroso. He called it the world's first non-imperial empire. Top memory as ever, Sprat. |
What you ‘literally said’ was ...
They'll continue to be dragged up whilst a vast chunk of people are either blissfully unaware of the atrocities or continue to peddle falsehoods in excuse of the actions. A YouGov survey this year showed that 1 in 3 people still think the empire is something to be proud of and the colonies are better off having been colonised. 40% of Leave voters still think Britain should have an empire. The lack of education is astonishing and worrying when you look at the political direction of the UK since 2016.
The sentence I commented on underlined
In the sentence before the one I commented on you do indeed refer to a YouGov survey and figures from it. I did not comment on this but obviously it does not show what you say. It shows that a survey of (at a guess) a few thousandths of 1% of the people! in the UK, presumably reported your quoted outcome. So that in itself is an extrapolation of a presumably low sample size, asking for opinion on a very complex and wide ranging issue in a multipart question. Aren’t the respondents paid for these surveys and is it not possible to create multi accounts? Is it not quite possible for political groups to frig results?
Of course pride is an abstract issue and the Empire was quite an achievement, just as the German army achieved well initially in the Second World War (in fact except for Churchill they may have saved the EU the trouble of building another Empire).
Just think of all that power if it was used totally for good. But what is good, who has the right to impose that, and what is good today may be abhorrent tomorrow
But the ex British Empire and the Empire the EU are building (in its attempt for more control, more globalisation and more military might), are both products of their time. Thinking they know better than anyone else, the politics of entitled supremacy.
Those of us who truly value all human life, have perhaps used history as a learning tool, rather than a stick to beat others, and don’t want to build another empire.
Surely the words of Juncker (as reported by the Guardian) must make others share my concern ...
The European Union must turn into a major sovereign power on the global stage making the world in its image’
‘the EU should aim to surpass the dominance of the dollar in the world economy and challenge China in its attempts to become the ascendant influence in Africa.’
foreign policy decisions made on the basis of a qualified majority vote in which the will of 55% of member states would win the day
Perhaps there is a special place in hell for all supremacists, however worthy, they may, over the centuries, have considered their cause. But really, the EU making the world in it’s image / the ascendant influence in Africa. Ding dong. Some people never learn.
Speaking of peddling falsehoods, did’t you call the fact that their fellow Africans, were primarily the ones responsible for abducting their own people and selling them them to the slave traders as chattels, a myth?
Anyway finally to the point ;) . The sentence of yours I commented on ‘40% of Leave voters still think Britain should have an empire’ Was presented by you as a separate statement of flat fact, and not related to the survey. That cannot be possibly known. |  | | |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 22:52 - Jul 11 with 1688 views | DJack |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 15:40 - Jul 11 by Catullus |
The American states are not sovereign states though, they are part of the country. EU states are supposedly soveriegn states but they all had to agree to EU law taking primacy with the ECJ being the final arbiter.
In terms of expansionism, which countries does the USA control? The EU itself doesn't yet have an army but there are moves to create one with the current President, Von der Leyen being heavily in favour. However, during the gulf wars the Allied coalition included several EU members, us obviously and also France, Germany, the Netherlands, Hungary, Italy....Belgium....Greece and while I mention Greece and Italy, the EU forced unelected technocrats on them, unseating elected leaders. Or does that not count because the EU likes Greece and Italy? |
So a bit like states rights and Federal government then... |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 13:46 - Jul 15 with 1602 views | felixstowe_jack |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 20:45 - Jul 10 by Catullus |
The EU is federalist not imperialist. The same poiunt appluies to the USA, it's ot me contradicting myself there.
One rather important point, the USA is trying to exert influence but not openly trying to get other countries to become states in the USA. The EU has several countries who are members in waiting. The EU wants them to want to join then voluntarily hand over ever more powers.
Then, again, the USA has a federal system whereby the inddividual states have their own powers, which they guard jealously. The EU is openly trying to take more powers for itself. The USA wants people to do what it wants or Trump will throw his toys out of the pram, have a little tantrum and make some threats. The EU wants the legal power to punish member states for not obeying.
An empire is defined as "an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state" the USA doesn't fit that definition but the EU does. |
Good response and at least the USA voters can elect to remove their president, senators and congressmen as it is a democratic country.
The EU president and 28 commissioners who rule the EU are all appointed and the EU voters have absolutely no say whatever in their appointment and cannot get rid of them no matter how useless or incompetent they are. | |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 14:34 - Jul 15 with 1585 views | WarwickHunt |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 13:46 - Jul 15 by felixstowe_jack |
Good response and at least the USA voters can elect to remove their president, senators and congressmen as it is a democratic country.
The EU president and 28 commissioners who rule the EU are all appointed and the EU voters have absolutely no say whatever in their appointment and cannot get rid of them no matter how useless or incompetent they are. |
They are appointed by elected representatives, dull cûnt. They don't win a fücking raffle. |  | | |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 14:50 - Jul 15 with 1576 views | felixstowe_jack |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 14:34 - Jul 15 by WarwickHunt |
They are appointed by elected representatives, dull cûnt. They don't win a fücking raffle. |
They are appointed yes but not by anyone who has been elected . If you insist on using foul and abusive language again I will have no hesitation in reporting you to site moderator .
Keep you language clean this is a platform for debate I may not agree with you but I respect you right to have a different opinion. [Post edited 15 Jul 2020 14:52]
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 15:24 - Jul 15 with 1560 views | WarwickHunt |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 14:50 - Jul 15 by felixstowe_jack |
They are appointed yes but not by anyone who has been elected . If you insist on using foul and abusive language again I will have no hesitation in reporting you to site moderator .
Keep you language clean this is a platform for debate I may not agree with you but I respect you right to have a different opinion. [Post edited 15 Jul 2020 14:52]
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Oh do shut the fück up you massive fúcking tart.
The EU Parliament (elected MEPs, you dolt) elect them - do you think they buy a fúcking Lotto ticket? If you don't want abuse then stop posting your dickbrained arse dribble.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/8/how-are-the-commission-president-an | | | |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 17:08 - Jul 15 with 1542 views | felixstowe_jack |
Yes the electorates voted in EU mps.
The commissioners are not selected from EU MPs they are appointed by the 28 national governments. Voters have no say over who they are . You don't seem to be able this simple undemocratic fact.
By the way the new EU commission president was the only name on the ballot paper and even then she barely got 50% of EU to endorse her.
Sounds like the "democratic" process they use in Russia , China and North Korea. | |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 18:10 - Jul 15 with 1528 views | WarwickHunt |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 17:08 - Jul 15 by felixstowe_jack |
Yes the electorates voted in EU mps.
The commissioners are not selected from EU MPs they are appointed by the 28 national governments. Voters have no say over who they are . You don't seem to be able this simple undemocratic fact.
By the way the new EU commission president was the only name on the ballot paper and even then she barely got 50% of EU to endorse her.
Sounds like the "democratic" process they use in Russia , China and North Korea. |
Appointed. By. Elected. MEPs.
Who voted for Cummings? Idiot. | | | |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 18:19 - Jul 15 with 1526 views | felixstowe_jack |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 18:10 - Jul 15 by WarwickHunt |
Appointed. By. Elected. MEPs.
Who voted for Cummings? Idiot. |
Cummings is an adviser just like Campbell for labour.
How can you have an election when only one candidate is nominated by the commission. That is not a free democratic election.
You don't even seem to be able to grasp a basic fact any 11 year could understand. | |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 18:47 - Jul 15 with 1515 views | WarwickHunt |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 18:19 - Jul 15 by felixstowe_jack |
Cummings is an adviser just like Campbell for labour.
How can you have an election when only one candidate is nominated by the commission. That is not a free democratic election.
You don't even seem to be able to grasp a basic fact any 11 year could understand. |
They could have nominated many but didn’t. It wasn’t a conspiracy, you dozy twà t. | | | |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 19:13 - Jul 15 with 1508 views | waynekerr55 |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 18:19 - Jul 15 by felixstowe_jack |
Cummings is an adviser just like Campbell for labour.
How can you have an election when only one candidate is nominated by the commission. That is not a free democratic election.
You don't even seem to be able to grasp a basic fact any 11 year could understand. |
Aye, that'll be it... |  |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 20:35 - Jul 15 with 1500 views | felixstowe_jack |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 18:47 - Jul 15 by WarwickHunt |
They could have nominated many but didn’t. It wasn’t a conspiracy, you dozy twà t. |
Only the commissioners can nominate. They wanted their own choice. That is still not democratic why can you not understand what Democracry is? 17.2 million did understand. | |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 20:54 - Jul 15 with 1494 views | WarwickHunt |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 20:35 - Jul 15 by felixstowe_jack |
Only the commissioners can nominate. They wanted their own choice. That is still not democratic why can you not understand what Democracry is? 17.2 million did understand. |
Are you really that fûcking dense?
Try joining the dots for fûck’s sake... | | | |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 21:00 - Jul 15 with 1489 views | felixstowe_jack |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 20:54 - Jul 15 by WarwickHunt |
Are you really that fûcking dense?
Try joining the dots for fûck’s sake... |
I just believe in democracy but you clearly do not.
Still keep using profanities if you cannot think of a real word. [Post edited 15 Jul 2020 21:01]
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 21:55 - Jul 15 with 1483 views | Catullus |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 14:34 - Jul 15 by WarwickHunt |
They are appointed by elected representatives, dull cûnt. They don't win a fücking raffle. |
Democracy, a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.
OR,
control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.
Democracy is when the elctorate decide, not when the elected representatives decide.
Von der Leyen wasn't even the original nomination, she was shoehorned in.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-elections-2019/opinion/von-der-leyens-nomina | |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 22:46 - Jul 15 with 1470 views | WarwickHunt |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 21:00 - Jul 15 by felixstowe_jack |
I just believe in democracy but you clearly do not.
Still keep using profanities if you cannot think of a real word. [Post edited 15 Jul 2020 21:01]
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Real word? Moron. 😂😂😂
Here you go, dullard - see if you can find an adult to help you understand it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36429482
An extract -
Reality Check verdict: There are a number of different routes to becoming a civil servant in the UK. EU commissioners on the other hand are proposed by national governments and selected by the president of the European Commission. New legislation proposed by the Commission still has to be agreed by the member states and passed by the European Parliament, which is directly elected by EU voters. So it's misleading to say unelected bureaucrats make decisions in the EU. The 28 European commissioners are meant to carry out their responsibilities independently of their national governments. In that sense, they are similar to British civil servants - politically impartial and independent of the government. | | | |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 22:50 - Jul 15 with 1468 views | WarwickHunt |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 21:55 - Jul 15 by Catullus |
Democracy, a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.
OR,
control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.
Democracy is when the elctorate decide, not when the elected representatives decide.
Von der Leyen wasn't even the original nomination, she was shoehorned in.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-elections-2019/opinion/von-der-leyens-nomina |
“Democracy is when the elctorate decide, not when the elected representatives decide”
😂😂😂😂😂😂 | | | |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 15:56 - Jul 16 with 1410 views | Drizzy |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 21:55 - Jul 15 by Catullus |
Democracy, a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.
OR,
control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.
Democracy is when the elctorate decide, not when the elected representatives decide.
Von der Leyen wasn't even the original nomination, she was shoehorned in.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-elections-2019/opinion/von-der-leyens-nomina |
How many times have you voted on Parliament bills, Cats? | |
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| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 17:13 - Jul 16 with 1403 views | WarwickHunt |
| London Mayor Sadiq Khan on 15:56 - Jul 16 by Drizzy |
How many times have you voted on Parliament bills, Cats? |
It’s like trying to teach algebra to a fish. | | | |
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